Articles
   
       
Pics/Video
       
Wake 101
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Wakeboarding Discussion

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    Warner Horton (Warnerstyle)      Join Date: Aug 2017       10-08-2017, 7:23 PM Reply   
Anyone know of a good exercise plan for the winter down time ?
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       10-08-2017, 8:23 PM Reply   
I’d challenge you to find a wakeboarder who is in better shape than Rusty. So do what he does: crossfit
Old    Adam Holdsworth (holdsworth)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-08-2017, 8:59 PM Reply   
+1 to Crossfit. On the surface, it gets a bit of a bad rep because of injuries and whatnot, but really it comes down to a mixture of people not knowing what the hell they're doing along with crappy coaches at their affiliate. If you stick with the basics and work your way up, you're fine and it's a ton of fun.
Old    Alex Faylar (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       10-08-2017, 9:10 PM Reply   
Crossfit requires good technique otherwise your gonna mess yourself up.Just bench,squat,deadlift lol.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-09-2017, 4:16 AM Reply   
5x5’s
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       10-09-2017, 8:12 AM Reply   
agree, it's too easy to get caught up in the competition aspect of crossfit which lends itself to injury. I have a friend who's a chiropractor who's business is supported by 2 boxes that represent abt 80% of his revenue..
If youre not comfortabel wiht proper form in the gym performing tradtional exercises, look to the classes offered by gyms. A number of them offer very comprehensive total body workout programs.
IF you have the means hire a trainer and him/her design a workout tailored to your needs.
I'm a huge supprter of investing money into ones well being. It's an investment, not an expense.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-09-2017, 8:23 AM Reply   
I agree with Crossfit. Nothing will get you in better shape, or faster.

With that said, Crossfit is very much a single plane workout system. Everything is sagital for the three patterns. Push, pull, squat.

I would recommend you augment Crossfit with a multi-plane workout since Wakeboarding and all sports in general are multi-plane. Yoga would be a great supplement for flexibility and function.

If you're pressed for time or on a budget, the P90X video system for home works amazingly well and it is well rounded. Yoga, boxing, lifting, and core/multi-plane. It's a great well to accelerate yourself into shape.
Old    Adam Holdsworth (holdsworth)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-09-2017, 11:48 AM Reply   
J-Rod, with the right coaching/programming, the frontal plane gets worked quite a bit. Transverse movements are less common, for sure, but can be tossed into the mix at the beginning or end of a typical Crossfit class as accessory work...something I need to work on more haha. Ever since they introduced dumbbells into the workouts for the Open and Regionals this year, most boxes are programming those movements, including a lot of one-armed movements, into their workouts. Good amount of core and lateral stability work involved, which is awesome. Accessory work is definitely key, though.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-09-2017, 11:59 AM Reply   
Move to Florida and wakeboard year round.
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       10-09-2017, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Move to Florida and wakeboard year round.
Ding ding! Winner!

But if that isn’t possible, seriously. Crossfit. The majority of injuries (CF’s only perceived flaw, and let’s face it, folks have to seriously REACH to find a drawback to CF. But everyone’s a critic and tries to find the flaws in everything.) can be attributed to athletes who don’t heed the coach’s advice on proper form and safety. 99% of the time it is the ego that gets them in trouble. They see the other more experienced athletes lifting heavier weights and push themselves outside their capacity. Check your ego at the door and listen to your coaches and you’ll be fine.

The key ingredient to whatever you end up doing is intensity. It is irrefutably evident that intensity sparks a response from your body unlike any other training ingredient. The only downside to that approach is that any break down of form for whatever movement is being performed will only be compounded by adding intensity, which will increase the chance of injury. So proper form becomes of utmost importance before you ever add the intensity component. Depending on the movement, that could take minutes for an athlete to correct for some of the simpler body-weight exercises, or it could take several weeks or even months for some of the more complex movements.
Old    Mike (roosm)      Join Date: Sep 2014       10-10-2017, 3:13 AM Reply   
This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3MRSfSdVqM
Old    Steven Pederson (sppeders)      Join Date: Jul 2011       10-10-2017, 5:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by roosm View Post
That looks like a good one.

When i'm up at the cabin and away from equipment i like to do the following. Keeps the heart pounding.

10 burpies
20 push ups
1/2 minute of stair climb ups and down..... basically up two steps, down two steps as fast as you can
10 pull ups
1/2 minute of mountain climbers
1/2 minute plank

then repeat until 5 sets are complete.
Old    Derik Heikoop (derek_h)      Join Date: Oct 2004       10-10-2017, 6:58 AM Reply   
Being a competitor in Bodybuilding (Physique) you find out quick it is Diet, Diet, Diet is the most important!! Don't expect big changes if your diet is not good.Eat lots of clean food.
I personally would stick to the gym if you have self discipline. Crossfit is good if you do not as you are in a class setting and have to keep up. Crossfit does focus on the core which is good for wakeboarding. I am personally not a fan of crossfit as it builds muscle where I do not want it (thicker waste) and not enough where I want it.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       10-10-2017, 7:13 AM Reply   
I love this topic, so ill weigh in. My first thing would be if you do it as in to get stronger, stick to the main keys when it comes to lifting, focus a lot on the big muscles, but also do a lot of the little ones and don't skip leg days. I have always been told I was one of the biggest riders people seen ride and do back rolls, but wont anymore after an injury. Also make sure to do a lot of stretching. I would agree crossfit can be ok, ill never do it. Way to many crossfit gyms pop up over night because they take a week online course and get certified. To me stay away from those gyms. That and a lot of people I see who claim to go to crossfit every day well I feel like they look worst then before they aint in shape. I am currently doing intermittent fasting, and doing my 35 min lift light weights high reps, and then 25 min of cardio in the morning. Then in afternoon I am always playing basketball or volleyball for extra cardio. since the start of summer im down 25 lbs, but I just started this regiment two weeks ago which cut 8lbs off. The biggest thing for me was diet, and cutting out sodas. Also biggest advice I enjoyed getting was do STRETCHES AND SWIMMING. Swimming really helps with my shoulders and joints after a day on the water. Also look at this free app called jefit, they have a lot of good work out routines on there.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       10-10-2017, 9:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
5x5’s
^ this
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       10-10-2017, 9:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by derek_h View Post
Being a competitor in Bodybuilding (Physique) you find out quick it is Diet, Diet, Diet is the most important!! Don't expect big changes if your diet is not good.Eat lots of clean food.
I personally would stick to the gym if you have self discipline. Crossfit is good if you do not as you are in a class setting and have to keep up. Crossfit does focus on the core which is good for wakeboarding. I am personally not a fan of crossfit as it builds muscle where I do not want it (thicker waste) and not enough where I want it.
more good advice. don't put garbage in your body and expect to look/feel like an athlete
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       10-10-2017, 11:22 AM Reply   
Well put nacho. I haven't had a soda since memorial day, and I can feel the difference. Also, been doing more cooking at home then eating at restaurants. I feel way more energy, and can go for longer periods riding or playing ball. You would think with caffeine from sodas you would be more energetic but not even close.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       10-10-2017, 11:50 AM Reply   
1 12 oz can of sprite contains more sugar than you should have the entire day. I have no doubt you're feeling better!

I like the "herd mentality" CF brings to fitness. keeping each other accountable and jazzed up. But it's 100% not for me for several reasons. As long as it gets people in better shape, I'm all for it! the CF chiro is onto something!
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       10-10-2017, 3:43 PM Reply   
I know I am going to get alot of heat for this considering how big corssfit seems to be in this crowd, but.....

Do you want to train or do you want to exercise? There is a difference. Exercise is for fun. Gets the heart going and keeps you in decent shape. Plus you can even get some friend time. Thats crossfit. It keeps people in decent shape and maybe provides the motiviation some people need to at the very least stay in shape. No one gets big and strong with crossfit though. The competitions attract big and strong people to go and strut their stuff, but they got big and strong using heavy core lifts (not WOD's). This isn't even considering the injury aspect of it.

If you are looking to actually get big and strong and maximize your time off the water, then do something like Starting Strength. You don't even have to do it exactly by the book and you will get massive results. People put 100+ LB on their squat within months. What do you think having a 300lb squat VS a 135LB squat will do to your push off the wake next season?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-10-2017, 7:32 PM Reply   
CrossFit “movement” are good but CrossFit in general has some down sides. And I go on occasion

If you’re unmotivated to train, then you should go.
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       10-11-2017, 9:39 AM Reply   
Most of the info so far is solid. Diet is important and probably overlooked by most.

I gotta say though, some of the underhanded comments from the detractors are cracking me up! “You don’t get big and strong by doing crossfit”? Bull$h!t. You get big and strong by lifting heavy things. And part of CF is lifting heavy things. It certainly isn’t for everyone. You won’t necessarily look like a bodybuilder. But your muscles and strength shouldn’t just be for looks, IMO. But hey, the ladies like big arms, right? Curls for the girls...

In the end, whatever you end up doing will be better than doing nothing. Sitting on the couch isn’t going to help. So get out there and try different programs and see what works for you.
Old    Adam Holdsworth (holdsworth)      Join Date: Jan 2010       10-11-2017, 1:27 PM Reply   
You can easily get "big and strong" from Crossfit. Not bodybuilder strong, but functionally strong. If you focus more on cardio to be fast in the workouts, maybe you won't get so big, but to really challenge yourself, you'll go a little above whats prescribed in the workotus as far as weight goes. Bigger kettlebell, extra 20 lbs on the bar, higher box jumps etc. I'm much stronger now than I ever was doing track in college. Granted, I was built more for speed and agility then, but still strong. I'm slower but stronger now haha.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       10-11-2017, 1:56 PM Reply   
I would agree with you anything is better then nothing. Nacho, you don't want to know how many sodas I was having a day. It hit me one day when someone said they couldn't believe how big I was that I could wake board, surf, or play competitive any sport. I said enough is enough. I would say the biggest flaw, bc I tried so many years, to lose weight after playing in college, the bigger flaw is we over look diet for sure. Eat right, youll get right.

The comments about crossfit, ya I know people might be mad people don't like it but for me the fact that a co worker I knew, who never played a sport, couldn't keep balance, and very out of shape took a class online got her OK and opened crossfit ya. I have no taste for crossfit, expecially when you see people that go there do it more like someone said to socialize. My buddy told me he and his wife go every day then go eat right after and they grab a pizza usually like wtf man. Just like he tried to get me on those craves for ordering food through whatever, don't fall for those. EAT CLEAN! cook food! get back to the basics and youll do great. Now that I got my diet under control its time to change to a different format for lifting. I am going to try and do more swimming now.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-12-2017, 9:00 AM Reply   
I am just doing modified 5x5 (add plank variations, pull ups, dips) now with yoga or hiit on off days, and then just literally cut all added sugar out of your diet and you’ll get in awesome shape.

I’ve lost 15lbs since Jan by changing nothing in my diet/beer consumption other than cut sugar out and expanding my lifting routine to include more athletic/bigger movements. I feel way better on and off the water
Old    Tom (TomH)      Join Date: Jan 2014       10-12-2017, 11:45 AM Reply   
If getting to the gym is a problem, I like P90x as others have mentioned. I do better with a specific program to follow. With kids and life and a budget, that's been the best one for me, as I can do it after they go to bed or before they get up, and I'll be starting up another round here in a few weeks.

Regarding diet, I dumped 90-95% of my refined sugar intake around 4 years ago when my wife had to make some diet changes for health reasons. Without changing any aspect other aspect of my diet or activity level, I dropped 30 pounds in the span of a couple month. The big plus side is, it took away pretty much all the digestive issues I had chronically been having since high school. Beyond that, we're a pretty clean household food-wise, mostly organic, especially on the fruits, veggies, and wheats, and probably eat out only once or twice a month. My poor kids barely know what candy is.
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       10-12-2017, 12:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by holdsworth View Post
You can easily get "big and strong" from Crossfit. Not bodybuilder strong, but functionally strong. If you focus more on cardio to be fast in the workouts, maybe you won't get so big, but to really challenge yourself, you'll go a little above whats prescribed in the workotus as far as weight goes. Bigger kettlebell, extra 20 lbs on the bar, higher box jumps etc. I'm much stronger now than I ever was doing track in college. Granted, I was built more for speed and agility then, but still strong. I'm slower but stronger now haha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsone79 View Post
Most of the info so far is solid. Diet is important and probably overlooked by most.

I gotta say though, some of the underhanded comments from the detractors are cracking me up! “You don’t get big and strong by doing crossfit”? Bull$h!t. You get big and strong by lifting heavy things. And part of CF is lifting heavy things. It certainly isn’t for everyone. You won’t necessarily look like a bodybuilder. But your muscles and strength shouldn’t just be for looks, IMO. But hey, the ladies like big arms, right? Curls for the girls...

In the end, whatever you end up doing will be better than doing nothing. Sitting on the couch isn’t going to help. So get out there and try different programs and see what works for you.
You guys might have different definitions of "big and strong". I'm not talking about bodybuilder big or powerlifter strong either. A 300+ LB squat and 400+lb deadlift within 6-9 months is typical for completely average men that go through "real" strength programs. Show me the crossfitter that pulls 400+LB and only does crossfit. Prove me wrong. Even if you do find someone, they probably either lifted heavy in the past, have been doing it (athletics in general) for decades, or are an outlier.

Dont get me wrong. I'm sure there are box crosffit gyms out there that are good and push the right type of programs. But thats not the typical crossfit experience. I'm also not saying crossfit is BAD. It all depends on your goals. If you crossfit multiple times a week, you are most definitely in better shape than the average joe.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       10-12-2017, 2:12 PM Reply   
. If you crossfit multiple times a week, you are most definitely in better shape than the average joe.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure about that statement. I know several people who go to cross fit so much and look awful and very terrible at sports or being in shape for sports, I think someone mentioned it earlier about training. Mindset and training are key. If you go in with mindset to train and train you will, I find most people at crossfit go for the experience or to say they do and waste 225 a month. The people I know who go to crossfit still eat crap. I do cardio daily, and way to much. I lost very little weight. It wasn't until someone said for how athletic you are and how much you go go go, you aren't skinny. The problem was my diet. I finally got that right I think. Well better. Now im showing improvement. take it from a fat guy who lost weight, put it on, lost it, put it on, and still can ball and do stuff. IF YOU DONT DO DIET YOU WILL FAIL!

then take it from whoever said it up above, train! train! train! don't do it just to exercise, but train! I cant remember who said it but it was spot on!
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       10-13-2017, 12:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timelinex View Post
You guys might have different definitions of "big and strong". I'm not talking about bodybuilder big or powerlifter strong either. A 300+ LB squat and 400+lb deadlift within 6-9 months is typical for completely average men that go through "real" strength programs. Show me the crossfitter that pulls 400+LB and only does crossfit. Prove me wrong. Even if you do find someone, they probably either lifted heavy in the past, have been doing it (athletics in general) for decades, or are an outlier.
I don’t want to go completely off track here, but come on! That’s it? You want me to show you a CFer who can squat 300 and pull 400? It would be easier to count the ones who can’t at any CF box I’ve been to. And the few who can’t would be beginners. But those are really light lifts. You let me know when the average globo-gym guy can do those. Better yet, let me know if you ever see those gym rats do a real squat. None of this loading 3 plates on each side and repping out “squats”, aka only going down half-way and then standing back up and calling it a squat. It isn’t a squat til your hips are below your knees. Stopping anywhere above that isn’t a squat. And most of the time they’re not even getting halfway down into a full depth squat.
Old    Connor (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       10-13-2017, 7:38 AM Reply   
...
Attached Images
 
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       10-13-2017, 9:12 AM Reply   
^^^LOL. Truth!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-13-2017, 12:22 PM Reply   
I suggest you follow New Dimensions out of Orlando so you can see what guys like Harley and Dowdy are doing. They aren't doing crossfit, and they aren't doing body building / split routines where you isolate one muscle at a time. In my opinion, that will make you look really good, but it's not going to do much for you athletically. I did body building for years and finally gave it up when I realized it was hindering my athletic ability. Big, heavy, slow, tight.

Full body integrated movements: Burpees are good. Lateral jump squats. Ice Skaters. Lateral walking pushups. Side plank dips. Transverse lunge. 90 or 180 up box jumps / 180 back down. Body rows. Bent over reverse fly or row. Squat-curl-press. Wood chop squat (or lunge). Situp-stand ups.

Your sports require full integration. I believe you should train that way. I also believe for every sit up you do (Hip flexion / back flexion) you should do the antagonist (hip extension / back extension), and for every pushup you do, you should do a body row. If you're wakeboarding everyday, I may back off on back work (pulling)
Old    Paul Blamey (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       10-13-2017, 8:17 PM Reply   
I guess the big issue with CrossFit is the lack of consistency and how much it can vary between gym.

I experienced very few of the negatives mention in this thread.
So I'll make some points based on my experience.

- Wods are the workout at the end if the CrossFit session. The rest of the time is spent training. At my gym the training was mostly focused around powerlifting and strength training.

- Most of the regular guys that went to CrossFit for over a year where hitting 300 Squat and 400 DL.

- Diet was a big focus of the program. It was often discussed and we had diet challenges where they would watch what you ate and give suggestions.

- Pretty much everybody that I saw that went regularly were transformed within 6 months.

-For me personally, I've been active my whole life but mostly just did individual sports (surf, ski, wake). I wasn't really into the team thing so never learned to train or work out. I've spent many hours in the gym, even had personal trainers but CrossFit was a real eye opener for me on what's possible.

Yeah, people go to CrossFit and then eat pizza afterwards. People go and let their egos get ahead of them and injured themselves. People go and don't take it seriously and just socialize. Anyone can open gym and some are run by idiots that don't know what they are doing.

But all the above applies to any other form of working out.

If you know what you are doing, are self motivated and successful, then keep on doing what works for you but if you want to get into shape and you don't know how. CrossFit is probably the best option for most people. Just find a good gym.


As a side note. I only did CrossFit for a year. I stopped after I had kids as I couldn't afford it(time and money).

I now have a sqaut rack in my garage and have been trying to get into 5x5(Stonglifts).

Stonglifts is great but I miss the personal training side you got at CrossFit. Where the hell do I find a 5x5 class to help with these things?

Last edited by Blamey; 10-13-2017 at 8:22 PM.
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       10-16-2017, 1:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsone79 View Post
I don’t want to go completely off track here, but come on! That’s it? You want me to show you a CFer who can squat 300 and pull 400? It would be easier to count the ones who can’t at any CF box I’ve been to. And the few who can’t would be beginners. But those are really light lifts. You let me know when the average globo-gym guy can do those. Better yet, let me know if you ever see those gym rats do a real squat. None of this loading 3 plates on each side and repping out “squats”, aka only going down half-way and then standing back up and calling it a squat. It isn’t a squat til your hips are below your knees. Stopping anywhere above that isn’t a squat. And most of the time they’re not even getting halfway down into a full depth squat.
It is most definitely possible that there is a lot of variations in gmys out there. In fact alot of LEGITIMATE strength coaches end up opening crossfit gyms since strength coaching can be financially nonviable while crossfit to the public enough money to stay open. So these gyms will probably have good coaches and alot of good clients. But as far as I know that is the exception and not the rule. You can open a crossfit gym after a weekend training coarse I believe.

Anyways, 300/400 is NOT impressive by strength training standard. I agree with you there. I was saying that this is what AVERAGE newbies are hitting after 6 months of doing a legitimate stregnth program like SS. So comparing avid crossfit members doing 300/400 to 6 month newbies isn't the point. The average guy off the streets will NOT be doing 300/400 within 6 months (or even a year) with crossfit. Not even close. If this doesn't apply to your gym, thats cool. Sounds like your owners know what they are doing. They are probably including alot of legitimate strength training on the big lifts. Which is NOT standard crossfit, but their spin on it.

As for your definition of the movements... I couldn't agree more. The strength programs like SS stress this as well though. If it's not below parallel, it doesn't count. Comparing to glbo gyms is pointless. Globo gym trainers (and frequently the customers as well) are even MORE clueless than the average crossfitter. It's basically paying someone to make you sweat a little and give yourself an excuse to eat your pizza after. They aren't there to actually make you strong.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-17-2017, 8:15 AM Reply   
Thank you for saying the average guy off the streets will NOT be hitting 300 squats and 400 deadlifts after 6 months. I'm a skinny but athletic 35 year old and I couldn't imagine doing a full rep 300 pound squat. And I don't know many friends that could. I try to stay in shape but I never was a college track and field athlete or football player. With that said I think somebody that had that kind of back ground could easily get back to being able to do 300/400. But I've never even come close to hitting those numbers ever. I would think it will take me years using my squat rack at home to work up to a 300 pound squat.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-17-2017, 8:25 AM Reply   
Why all the pizza hate?
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       10-17-2017, 10:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonblarc7 View Post
Thank you for saying the average guy off the streets will NOT be hitting 300 squats and 400 deadlifts after 6 months. I'm a skinny but athletic 35 year old and I couldn't imagine doing a full rep 300 pound squat. And I don't know many friends that could. I try to stay in shape but I never was a college track and field athlete or football player. With that said I think somebody that had that kind of back ground could easily get back to being able to do 300/400. But I've never even come close to hitting those numbers ever. I would think it will take me years using my squat rack at home to work up to a 300 pound squat.
Thats the point. You are wrong. If you are average male. You can hit 300LB squats within 6-9 months on the well known strength programs like Starting Strength.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       10-17-2017, 10:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonblarc7 View Post
Thank you for saying the average guy off the streets will NOT be hitting 300 squats and 400 deadlifts after 6 months. I'm a skinny but athletic 35 year old and I couldn't imagine doing a full rep 300 pound squat. And I don't know many friends that could. I try to stay in shape but I never was a college track and field athlete or football player. With that said I think somebody that had that kind of back ground could easily get back to being able to do 300/400. But I've never even come close to hitting those numbers ever. I would think it will take me years using my squat rack at home to work up to a 300 pound squat.
Dont feel bad!!! I would say most the people who go to the gym or do cross fit do it for social or to look athletic. When it comes down to it, a bunch of them are some of the worst athletes ive seen. I would rather be athletic any day over looking athletic. Don't think you need to do all that heavy weight training as well to claim your athletic. I know after my college career my Dr has told me it is stupid to lift heavy unless your competing. going from what I use to lift to now I am perfectly fine with it. Most people lift heavy at the gym thinking it looks cool, I laugh at those guys. Dont worry if you don't think you could squat 300!!!
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       10-17-2017, 10:37 AM Reply   
Timeline, your main argument keeps going back to the fact that anyone who goes and gets their CF L1 cert can open a box. And frankly, that is a silly reason to discount CF. It honestly sounds like you’ve never set foot in a CF gym. And that’s a shame. Every box I’ve been to programs a strength/skill (like squats, deads, clean and jerk, etc) to go along with their WOD (workout of the day), which is usually a metcon (metabolic conditioning) workout. Just because someone CAN open a gym with hardly any experience, doesn’t mean they do. There are other things like a business plan, facility to own/rent, equipment to purchase, affiliate dues to pay, business license, taxes to pay, etc. Just like any business you start, it’s a huge risk. Someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing will almost certainly fail. They’ll get the wrong equipment, they’ll program poorly, and they won’t get clients and they’ll have to close down. The ones that have a solid client base are obviously doing something right. There is a reason it is the fastest growing fitness movement for the past decade or so. And it is showing no signs of slowing down. You should check one out someday. You’ll definitely learn something about yourself and other like-minded individuals, and who knows? You might even like it.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       10-17-2017, 12:58 PM Reply   
Josh,

I agree with you, if I was one who never walked in to one I would say your 100% right. However since I have walked into 3 separate ones here. I don't plan to anytime soon. At least Now at the price they do these days, and the limit gym time. Why pay 225 a month to work out with a group, to see people do silly pull ups, sorry someone just sent me a video of cross fit pull ups, makes me laugh all the throwing the body around crazy like HA. After my first year in college, I know I paid 100 a month for group trainer that trained the pros, he just did a small group of college athletes because he had extra time. Watching baseball players and NBA players, especially the NBA all-star guy train was unreal. There drive and work ethic is unreal. Still not cross fit. I prefer to pay 45 bucks a month for a gym I can use as many times as I want, and to do whatever I want, from swimming, to bball, to volleyball, to running, to lifting. O ya and the great steam room and hot tubs for the muscles.

Maybe its just how they do it here in Knoxville, but the words from one cross fit owner, get into the business now because cross fit is a fad just like body pump, advocare, and les miles or whatever training its called. As a business man I get it, make that money. I don't plan to ever do cross fit or step into one again as long as they are still charging so high. I would rather save my money for new boards!!!!

Talking about training have you all see the new balance board for working on surfing and balance, its all over instagram? Any thoughts?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-17-2017, 2:18 PM Reply   
I'm not a crossfitter but keep in mind that kipping isn't necessarily wrong. It's an explosive movement just like a box jump, or a kettlebell swing. What's better a box jump or a strict body squat? Neither. Every exercise has it's application and strict pull ups (which I prefer) aren't going to help you with with explosive movements, or get your heart rate up. As long as the spine and pelvis are in alignment under heavy load on the body, it's safe.
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       10-17-2017, 3:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsone79 View Post
Timeline, your main argument keeps going back to the fact that anyone who goes and gets their CF L1 cert can open a box. And frankly, that is a silly reason to discount CF. It honestly sounds like you’ve never set foot in a CF gym. And that’s a shame. Every box I’ve been to programs a strength/skill (like squats, deads, clean and jerk, etc) to go along with their WOD (workout of the day), which is usually a metcon (metabolic conditioning) workout. Just because someone CAN open a gym with hardly any experience, doesn’t mean they do. There are other things like a business plan, facility to own/rent, equipment to purchase, affiliate dues to pay, business license, taxes to pay, etc. Just like any business you start, it’s a huge risk. Someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing will almost certainly fail. They’ll get the wrong equipment, they’ll program poorly, and they won’t get clients and they’ll have to close down. The ones that have a solid client base are obviously doing something right. There is a reason it is the fastest growing fitness movement for the past decade or so. And it is showing no signs of slowing down. You should check one out someday. You’ll definitely learn something about yourself and other like-minded individuals, and who knows? You might even like it.
I can only base my opinion on what I've seen personally. You are right that I have not been in an official crossfit gym. But I do know people that did crossfit . Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much and thats why I acknowledged that I can't speak for all areas. I'm really not trying to dog crossfit here. I'm just trying to give advice based on what I have personally seen. No crossfit program will get you as strong as a strength program. They can't . The extra things you do in there will take up recovery resources from your primary strength workouts.

Which leads me to my recommendation.

If you want to get better at a sport, there are primarily 2 ways.

1. Practice the sport (In other words practicing the skill)
2. Get stronger

Unless your sport is a long slow cardio type sport (marathons and long distance biking), cardio is generally never a limiting factor as long as you actually practice your sport. Just doing your sport will get you in good enough cardio shape to do your sport. Cardiovascular fitness isn't a long term adaptation like strength is. It's relatively short term and a healthy individual can go from never running in their life to doing miles within a short term (which is more than enough for most sports). Strength takes a long time.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-17-2017, 4:20 PM Reply   
"If you want to get better at a sport, there are primarily 2 ways.

1. Practice the sport (In other words practicing the skill)
2. Get stronger"

I'd add specificity to that. "Get stronger" is pretty vague. For something like wakeboarding you need a integrated strength and conditioning by using full body exercises. The type of strength you're talk about with the goal of achieving maximal strength is not good for most sports, except weight lifting. Strength training typically involves isolated, slow, and often supported patterns (laying on a bench, or sitting in a leg press). Wakeboarding is anything but that. I promise you wakeboarders or any pro action sports athletes are not working with their trainer to try and squat 300 pounds. Yes they may have a day here and there focused on deadlifts and Squats for core strength, but strength is not their primary goal.
Proper activation and conditioning is. Weight lifting is awful as a sole method for action sports. Awful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmjQJmQJyNU
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       10-17-2017, 5:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
"If you want to get better at a sport, there are primarily 2 ways.

1. Practice the sport (In other words practicing the skill)
2. Get stronger"

I'd add specificity to that. "Get stronger" is pretty vague. For something like wakeboarding you need a integrated strength and conditioning by using full body exercises. The type of strength you're talk about with the goal of achieving maximal strength is not good for most sports, except weight lifting. Strength training typically involves isolated, slow, and often supported patterns (laying on a bench, or sitting in a leg press). Wakeboarding is anything but that. I promise you wakeboarders or any pro action sports athletes are not working with their trainer to try and squat 300 pounds. Yes they may have a day here and there focused on deadlifts and Squats for core strength, but strength is not their primary goal.
Proper activation and conditioning is. Weight lifting is awful as a sole method for action sports. Awful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmjQJmQJyNU
There are different trains of thoughts here. I won't say one is right or wrong because neither of us are probably well qualified enough to have our word mean anything in the the pro tier training fields. There are definitely some pro's that abide by the "specificity" training. There are definitely some that don't.

Here is the opinion, as far as I understand it, of those that do not believe specificity applies:

Specificity doesn't really apply to sports and can be counter productive. Strength itself is NON SPECIFIC. All else being equal, someone that can bench 400 can throw a ball faster than someone that can bench 200. You can record the speed of a ball you kick today. Don't kick another ball while you add 200LB on your squat, then kick it again. The 2nd time around the kick will be alot harder and faster. The point? Strength from the big lifts is not specific. The big lifts work on all pertaining muscles and reflect on your performance.

Specific strength training has alot of disadvantages. They are generally assistance movements that you can only scale up so much. It can also lead to imbalances that will lead to injury. Another
type of specific training is training with heavier tools. So the thought process is to use a heavier baseball during practice, so when you throw the normal baseball it will be faster. This is definitely counter productive because skill has as much to do with speed/accuracy as strength, and you are incorrectly practicing the skill when you aren't practicing with the actual ball. When you have world class trainers setting your program up for you and tailoring it to your exact needs, strengths and weaknesses. It might work for you. But your workout program wont be optimal for the next guy then.

Mimicking pro athletes workouts is a very bad idea. They are no longer "novices" in the strength area and need different lifting programs. They also have alot less recovery resources than us. When you are wakeboarding every day, you do not have too much recovery resources left to recover from a heavy deadlift for example. You would be over training. Practicing the sports skill will always be more beneficial than just getting stronger. So of course they aren't taxing themselves multiple times a week using heavy strength training. They benefit by keeping it light and not as taxing so they can continue to practice wakeboarding (or whatever other sport).

However if the average guy like us wants to get better with a limit of once a week wakeboarding or even in the off season with no wakeboarding. Our best best is to get stronger. If you are worried about getting out of cardio shape, then before your season starts you just add some cardio a few weeks before the season and you will be back in the same cardio shape (cardio capacity comes and goes quick)

As far as the pro's not training these "slow" movements...... I don't want to argue back and forth with you about this, but I disagree. Most pro's have extremely impressive numbers. Not because they have had great workout programs. Simply because of how long they have been working out and their genetics. The primary cursor that action athletes benefit from is explosiveness. Unfortunately for us mere mortals, explosiveness is primarily genetic. Thats why the NFL puts so much weight on the vertical jump. Once someone knows the correct form, it can not be trained meaningfully. An athelete can only add a few inches in a lifetime. So it gives the NFL owners a good idea of an athletes potential. You want to know what goes into explosiveness? Its a factor of strength and how fast your muscles can recruit your muscle fibers (strength). The recruitment quickness is what is basically almost untrainable to a meaningful degree. On the other hand strength can be trained. So you want to know how to best increase your verticle jump? Either by losing weight while staying just as strong or getting stronger. So strength has alot to do with action sports.

You are right to notice that most top tier athletes rely much more on their genetics and practice than their dedication to strength training. Not necessarily a bad thing. It is always about priorities and sport practice will always win out. I would love to see the vertical jump on some of the pro's with the biggest wake jumps. It would be double what some of us on this forum can achieve.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-17-2017, 6:32 PM Reply   
Speed and power come into play here. Being just strong doesn't mean you have either one of these things. If more strength meant a pitcher could throw the ball faster, then pitchers would be working on hypertrophy for a monster arm. Will throwing a heavier ball help you throw a light ball faster? Absolutely. If you call this strength training I understand that and that's less vague.

I'm not saying that the group here should do Harley's workout, but look at how he is training. Full body, integrated. Frequency and intensity should definitely be factored into your own life compared to a pro, but the concept still applies......train for what you are going to do and to correct the imbalances caused by your sport. Wakeboarding itself causes imbalances.

Back to stronger..... If you mean I should train for the beginning of wakeboarding season by using exercises to strengthen back up my core and get all of the prime muscles activating together, then yes, I'd agree. If you're saying I should go work on my weight lifting on a seated row, I'd disagree. Will that strengthen my back for the constant pull of the boat? Yes - but in an isolated fashion. Nothing about action sports is isolated as you clearly know.

I agree with you on genetics. Steele Lafferty has a huge vertical leap and it's no coincidence that he pops big. No amount of training will get some of us to that level.

My whole point here is for the average guy, doing a split routine (body building) to maintain good, well rounded athletic ability is not great. You can do a lot better.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-17-2017, 6:33 PM Reply   
https://www.instagram.com/p/BMW_y1Oh8sb/
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-17-2017, 7:13 PM Reply   
I agree with Jarrod strength doesn't mean you can jump higher than the skinny guy or hit the ball harder. Let's take golf and me, I'm 155 pounds soaking wet and let's say I have a 200 squat. I really don't max out squats because I workout at home alone.

But I guarantee I out drive 95% of the people that can Squat 300 pounds. Why because technic, I have been doing it since I was 8 years old. I piss off so many bigger guys because no matter how hard they try to swing my technic is better.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-17-2017, 8:05 PM Reply   
There's multiple ways to skin a cat, end of story.

I have not been that impressed with crossfit, I would rather lift like an athlete on my own. But doing 5 sets of arnold's per lift is going to help you make that Ole 5, bro. Then again neither is finishing your metcon first.

If you're not doing yoga then you're doing yourself any favors either. Probably the biggest elements of yoga play into wake boarding- its all about balance and stability.
For wakeboarding you need to...

1. have decent cardio
2. be flexible
3. Have incredible stability muscles (this is most important IMO for preventing injury).

anything else is tertiary for the weekend warrior.
Old    Alex Faylar (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       10-18-2017, 8:59 AM Reply   
Don't fall for the crossfit and yoga crap check this guy out 500 pound bench 700 deadlift and 600 squat while doing standing backflips. You can be crazy strong and insanely athletic at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_IRyCJa0aY
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       10-18-2017, 9:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Speed and power come into play here. Being just strong doesn't mean you have either one of these things. If more strength meant a pitcher could throw the ball faster, then pitchers would be working on hypertrophy for a monster arm. Will throwing a heavier ball help you throw a light ball faster? Absolutely. If you call this strength training I understand that and that's less vague.

I'm not saying that the group here should do Harley's workout, but look at how he is training. Full body, integrated. Frequency and intensity should definitely be factored into your own life compared to a pro, but the concept still applies......train for what you are going to do and to correct the imbalances caused by your sport. Wakeboarding itself causes imbalances.

Back to stronger..... If you mean I should train for the beginning of wakeboarding season by using exercises to strengthen back up my core and get all of the prime muscles activating together, then yes, I'd agree. If you're saying I should go work on my weight lifting on a seated row, I'd disagree. Will that strengthen my back for the constant pull of the boat? Yes - but in an isolated fashion. Nothing about action sports is isolated as you clearly know.

I agree with you on genetics. Steele Lafferty has a huge vertical leap and it's no coincidence that he pops big. No amount of training will get some of us to that level.

My whole point here is for the average guy, doing a split routine (body building) to maintain good, well rounded athletic ability is not great. You can do a lot better.
The only thing I'll wanted to clarify is that I think I might be coming off to some as advocating a bodybuilding routine. That is farthest from the truth. A strength routine is neither bodybuilding or powerlifting.

I completely agree that getting "big" in a bodybuilding sense is a disadvantage in most sports. That's definitely not what I meant to say. People are deadlifting 700lb at a 200lb bodyweight (obviously a bit on the extreme side). So its not about becoming bulky. Hypertrophy is only a small part of the strength equation. In fact, bodybuilders aren't really known to be that strong of lifters (compared to actual elite lifters).

So I mostly agree with alot of the things your saying. I might just not be clearly explaining my side of the argument.
Old    Will (razorjaw)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-18-2017, 6:59 PM Reply   
Jujitsu/MMA is fantastic depending on your dojo/gym. So is jumping on the trampoline and skating.
Old    Alex Faylar (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       10-18-2017, 9:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorjaw View Post
Jujitsu/MMA is fantastic depending on your dojo/gym. So is jumping on the trampoline and skating.
skating um yeah......... I think most people are over the age of 12 on here haha. Whats with the dumb/queer exercise suggestions stick to some heavy weight training crossfit is bs the people that push heavy weight in there did power lifting before hundred percent guarantee, next someone is gonna say tap dancing is extremely beneficial to wakeboarding c'mon people get your stuff together
Old    Alex Faylar (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       10-18-2017, 10:09 PM Reply   
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-19-2017, 7:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeslash View Post
skating um yeah......... I think most people are over the age of 12 on here haha. Whats with the dumb/queer exercise suggestions stick to some heavy weight training crossfit is bs the people that push heavy weight in there did power lifting before hundred percent guarantee, next someone is gonna say tap dancing is extremely beneficial to wakeboarding c'mon people get your stuff together
You pretty much don't know anything.
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       10-19-2017, 11:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeslash View Post
skating um yeah......... I think most people are over the age of 12 on here haha. Whats with the dumb/queer exercise suggestions stick to some heavy weight training crossfit is bs the people that push heavy weight in there did power lifting before hundred percent guarantee, next someone is gonna say tap dancing is extremely beneficial to wakeboarding c'mon people get your stuff together
You’re clueless.
Old    Alex Faylar (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       10-19-2017, 12:10 PM Reply   
Skating = wakeskating there are no bindings closest sport to wakeboarding is snowboarding.
Old    Alex Faylar (wakeslash)      Join Date: Sep 2017       10-19-2017, 1:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
You pretty much don't know anything.
Old    Shredtastic (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       10-19-2017, 3:52 PM Reply   
Monday-curls
Tuesday-curls
Wednesday-curls
Thursday-curls
Friday-curls
You can mix in a little bench but don't let it detract you from the curls.

Cardio on the weekends when you're running away from all the poon.

You can thank me later, bro.
Old    A B (OSUBUCKS)      Join Date: Feb 2017       11-22-2017, 8:17 AM Reply   
for you guys who do 5x5, do you include anything else for flexibility, and core focus?
Old    TimelineX (timelinex)      Join Date: Oct 2014       11-22-2017, 11:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUBUCKS View Post
for you guys who do 5x5, do you include anything else for flexibility, and core focus?
A couple questions that should answer this for you:

1. What core workout will work your core more than sets of heavy squats or deadlifts. Both of which require and work on your core significantly.

2. What flexibility routine will better prepare you for the required flexibility of wakeboarding, then wakeboarding itself?

You can certainly 'work on your core' more and you can certainly try to get more flexible than required for lifting or wakeboarding. But there is no "need" for it.

Working on your core seems like the newest buzzwords that have come out of the fitness industry. Most people think it just means strong abs. Your core is alot more than that. But regardless, doing heavy compound movements work on your core and abs immensely. Have you looked at the top powerlifters? Many look fat with a shirt on, but when they take their shirt off you can literally see chiseled abs. They have a round look with a shirt because of the immense amount of core muscle they posses. You won't ever catch any of them doing silly core exercises using a bosu ball or other hot fads.Compound movements build a strong core.

If you want flexibility, dont do static stretches. Do thing that require more flexibility. Yoga for example.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-22-2017, 12:47 PM Reply   
I just down loaded a free app call StrongLifts that track your 5x5 work outs. I've been working out with free weights at home fot the last year with good results. I find I have better gains if I have something to follow. Will see how it goes.
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-23-2017, 6:11 AM Reply   
I do Johnnie WOD. It's the old Crossfit Football, without focusing the cycles around the football training/season schedule.

Mon, Tues, Thur, Fri you start with regular non-timed lifting (bench, close grip bench, back squat, front squat, cleans, snatch, deadlifts, press, push press,, etc.). That is typically followed up with about 10-15 minutes of Crossfit style conditioning (typically, assault bike/row, pull-ups, push-ups, dips, supine ring pull ups, kb swings, lunges, bulgarian squat, goblet squat, ball slams, sandbag carry, plyo-skiiers, etc.).

Sometimes that is then followed up with a complex of sorts, like db bench, curls, db rows.

Wed and Saturday are more focused on core and abs and/or lighter conditioning.

Last edited by ironj32; 11-23-2017 at 6:16 AM.
Old    Kurzinator (Kurzinator)      Join Date: Aug 2017       11-24-2017, 12:44 PM Reply   
Here is a HIIT routine I do before Jiu Jitsu. Lifting a couple times a week is good too, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyv9_GUhpnU
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       11-28-2017, 10:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironj32 View Post
I do Johnnie WOD. It's the old Crossfit Football, without focusing the cycles around the football training/season schedule.

Mon, Tues, Thur, Fri you start with regular non-timed lifting (bench, close grip bench, back squat, front squat, cleans, snatch, deadlifts, press, push press,, etc.). That is typically followed up with about 10-15 minutes of Crossfit style conditioning (typically, assault bike/row, pull-ups, push-ups, dips, supine ring pull ups, kb swings, lunges, bulgarian squat, goblet squat, ball slams, sandbag carry, plyo-skiiers, etc.).

Sometimes that is then followed up with a complex of sorts, like db bench, curls, db rows.

Wed and Saturday are more focused on core and abs and/or lighter conditioning.
Before I had kids I did a cycle of CF Football for several months. Loved it. Need to get back on that. Had no idea the site changed. Glad you mentioned it!
Old    Alex Brennan (ATB0713)      Join Date: Oct 2013       11-28-2017, 12:23 PM Reply   
if you're just looking to keep in shape/maintain so you're not "dead in the water" come spring time I would recommend jogging on the tredmill for about 20/30 minutes 3 or 4 days a week. Keeping up with a solid back, shoulders, chest, leg routine 3 to 4 days a week. i'm big into snowboarding, so i workout Monday-Thursday and make a big effort to snowboard friday-saturday-sunday.

Never tried crossfit, but i know a people who are into it, and they're all yoked!
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-28-2017, 1:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsone79 View Post
Before I had kids I did a cycle of CF Football for several months. Loved it. Need to get back on that. Had no idea the site changed. Glad you mentioned it!
I really like it. Each cycle is usually 40 days or so. We just started a new one, yesterday, and my legs are crying today. This cycle is called "The Rock" - it incorporates some the training that Dwayne Johnson did for his role in the Tooth Fairy movie.

Yesterday's workout was:

PAIN & GAIN Superset
No waiting/resting, just go.
B1) Banded Hamstring Curls: 5x8
B2) DB Hammer Curls: 5X8

STRENGTH Superset
C1) Back Squat (pick a weight you can do at a good pace): Reps of 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
C2) Push ups: Reps of 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

CONDITIONING
Complete as many rounds of the following, as possible in 10 minutes

2 pood Bulgarian Split Squats: 10 Reps
2 pood KB or DB RDL: 10 Reps

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:25 AM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2016 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us