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Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-19-2017, 9:02 AM Reply   
At some point, the wakesurfing community needs to show a little restraint. I get that we all want to have the best wake we can get at all times but how much wake do you really need to go out and have fun? It's gotten a bit out of control and I don't see anybody taking any personal responsibility out there. Now, if you are on a section of lake where no one, and I mean NO ONE else is or you're on your own private lake sure, max it out. How often is that the case though? Most of us boat on public waterways. That means our wakes effect the general public. With the entire industry jumping on the wakesurfing bandwagon, everybody has nice surf wake now. The surf wake soup created every weekend on every lake is becoming unfun. People are just throwing them wherever and never thinking twice about where they go afterwards. And for all these big beautiful wakes being created, I never see anybody who can surf worth a **** anyways. A better wake doesn't make you a better surfer. Quite the opposite in fact. Show me someone who can rip a smaller wake and I'll show you a better surfer. So, how much is too much? How much ballast is too much? How much wake do you really need? 3'? 4'? Where does it end? Probably like everything else. It'll get abused until the law has to step in. Even the wakeboarders are complaining. Hell, I'm a wakesurfer and I'm complaining. Perhaps we could generate some dialog for the mess we are creating and at least recognize that we're changing the very complexion of boating?

Flame on...
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       07-19-2017, 9:18 AM Reply   
Ill start this topic off with a reply. Growing up on the coast, we had a boat on the water. Yes there were waves from storms and wind but most it was big ships and yachts. You live on the water or keep your boat on a dock you know the risk and need to build a dock accordingly. second, on the lakes were at up here, there is no difference between surf waves or what I see bigger boats making that are yachts. third, my frustration is with fisherman and floating boats who want to park in the middle of channels or main ways and hang out. I have no desire to watch it around them. They take their chances. I keep my legal distance from all the docks and boats. Tubers drive crazy and cause a lot of Mayhem so its hard to watch how close you get sometimes. My opinion is why aren't they tied up or fishing in the coves and letting surfers boarders tubers have the main parts of the water way? If you did this, then most houses, at least where I am at really wouldn't fill the full of impact of the waves. Just my thoughts. Plus I believe its more dangerous for sea doos to be out there letting lose and fishing boats going 70mph. We see on the lake im at more deaths from fisherman, sea doos, or house boats or people who tie up and swim. I have yet to see someone die due to the wave of a surf boat. to answer your question about ballast I think it will be the same as any boat, whether fishing, cruising surfing. Its whatever the Coast guard rates for weight in the boat is your limit. I guess you can go by that, whats the difference if you have 1500 lbs of people or 1 person and 1500 lb of fat sacs on your boat?

Love to see people's opinions on here.
Old    Patrick Cuezze (pcuezze)      Join Date: Aug 2014       07-19-2017, 9:52 AM Reply   
I 100% agree that you PROGRESS when you move to a smaller wake. I started mellowing out my wake this year and find that my airs are much more impressive off a 24" wake than the 3 1/2 foot monster I was running at before. As for where to surf, I think it depends on your lake. At Lake of the Ozarks, it is downright deadly to conduct watersports in the main channel. Plowing cruisers often give little thought to the rules of the road and the water is so churned up that retrieval is dangerous. Lengthy coves work best. Here are the things that frustrate me the most
1) Boats anchored in the middle of long coves that are known for watersports -MOVE TO THE BACK OF THE COVE!!!.
2) Jet Skis that insist on jumping your wave while towing at 35-40 feet.
3) Cigarette boats and other speed boats racing in and out of coves at 40+ just for the sake of going fast (They're not on plane, so they don't destroy the water, but the horror of seeing a 42' boat coming directly up your six at 50 mph while you're 11 year old is surfing....)
4) Tubers that don't look out when performing s-turns. I get it, tubing is fun for kids. But the lake isn't all yours. You still have to preserve some semblance of traffic flow.

As for fisherman - I don't go out of my way to get near their boats. But if they're in big water at Lake of the Ozarks on a Saturday or Sunday, I don't feel to sorry for them. IMO, wakeboard boaters (including surf boats) are some of the most knowledgeable and courteous on the lake. Of course many of us could be more respectful at times. But, on whole, I'd rather have 10 surfboats go by my dock than a single 45 foot carver running off-plane. Great post!
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-19-2017, 10:05 AM Reply   
I think a lot of it has to with wave shapers, whether they're fancing flippers by the platform or stuck to the side.

before wave shapers, you HAD to roll with several tons of weight to create a decent wave. with shapers, you don't. and yes, it takes more skill to stay in a small pocket than a hip high one. I've started to decrease the weight I'm running for quite a few reasons.

The rest of it boils down to laying claim to a public waterway. Although I got on a friends ass last week for tubing through the only flat water on the lake with his ballast full..... so
Old    Ronnie (AncientCityCustoms)      Join Date: Jul 2017       07-19-2017, 10:33 AM Reply   
Sea doos are my biggest fear while doing any sort of water sports. The price points are very low on them and people don't understand the physics of riding behind someone being towed and what happens when they fall. I can't even tell you how many times is almost been hit by a sea doo after doing down and given a half ass apology.
Back on topic, I agree that wakesurfs are getting bigger and bigger each weekend but I plan accordingly to beat them on the water and be finished riding by the time they get setup. That's putting a band aide on the wound but at the same time i feel bad throwing a wake when someone is trying to water ski. And the creek I ride on is only so wide so even when two wakesurfing boats pass each other, neither is have a good time.
I grew up on the east coast and some of the best actual surfers i know learned on small sets and only the really good ones chased bigger waves around the world. 99% of the people i see wakesurfing are always holding the rope.
Just like with fishing, a bigger boat doesn't catch more fish.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-19-2017, 10:38 AM Reply   
Wakesurfing is like golf

And not just because it is for affluent white guys.

Wakesurfers think the 100 lbs extra will be what it takes to finally get them to land that 360, or maybe it's the next years boat model, or maybe they need another $1000 board. It's just like golf clubs and people thinking they can just spend the money to get a stroke off their game.

While board shape and quality matters to some extent as well as the push of the wake, it is up to the rider to actually push themselves and do something.

I never see anyone do more than surf in a straight line or carve, yet they will have multiple $800+ boards on their $150k boat with a wake I wish I could get on.

I have no problem with big wakes like the OP, but I just want to see people taking advantage of them.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-19-2017, 10:48 AM Reply   
^ now that's funny!

Mitch, whats your 'cap?
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       07-19-2017, 11:00 AM Reply   
Not sure what Mitch is going on about, game improvement clubs every year has bought my handicap down a point.....And ping has a new set out that would blow my G30's away.....even though my friend with 30 year old blades can crush anyone, he's an anomaly.

Double edge sword here, everyone wave piss me off, my waves are fine. Public lakes suck around here & you just either learn to deal or sell your boat, it honestly is no fun on the weekends & now everyone is up at 6am trying to get good water. One thing that would help is if people quit driving in circles while surfing. We cut a line & when at the end the rider falls & we go back the exact same way we come keeping the water fairly decent for everyone in the line. At the end of the day though, surfing is here to stay for a while & everyone is just going to have to get used to it.

Fishermen piss me off too! They sit & bitch about people skiing in the ski zone when they have multiple no wake / no ski areas they could be in. Had this idiot come screaming up to me in bass boat then stops 20' in front of me while I am trying to get my rider up, then when we said GTFO he & his wife start flipping us off & laughing. So I made my rider get in while I drove circles around their boat fully ballasted out watching them scream for their lives thinking they were going down. Two can be an ******* & I am really good at it, just ask my spoiled entitled bastard teens who think they live in hell cause they can't do what they want...

Last edited by racer808; 07-19-2017 at 11:04 AM.
Old    Matt Zelenik (mlzelenik)      Join Date: Apr 2016       07-19-2017, 11:41 AM Reply   
Jack can we hang out? I like you already
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-19-2017, 12:43 PM Reply   
I was hoping I wasn't alone. I figured I wasn't but it gets frustrating out there sometimes. I guess I just needed to vent. Lots of good replys. Thanks for that.

Most of our lakes a pretty small, except for the two really big ones. Those two suck for riding for different reasons. Since wake surfing has exploded, it has been a game of escape from the wake of no escape. Jackasses will always be jackasses I guess. There's a bunch with surf machines now, whereas most of them used to be in runabouts.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       07-19-2017, 12:55 PM Reply   
Hell yeah we can hang out! Just bring strippers & blow.
Old    Professor (brhanley)      Join Date: Jun 2001       07-19-2017, 3:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlzelenik View Post
jack can we hang out? I like you already
lol
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-19-2017, 6:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fence_sence View Post
Now, if you are on a section of lake where no one, and I mean NO ONE else is ...
Nick there's always Pyramid. I used to feel bad dragging the kids on tubes across the glass and I've finally realized "there's nobody here!"

I've gone closed cooling for peace of mind, but there's no denying that there's glass for days out there.

And I was on lahontan on the 9th and it was money, even with people surfing, jet skiing, dragging tubes and whatnot.
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-19-2017, 6:39 PM Reply   
^^^You know I hate Pyramid. I'll agree there's glass to be had but there's too many negatives to that place, the water being just one. I've been out at Lahontan a lot. I was there on Friday, be there tomorrow too. Even on Friday with only a few people there, some tool bag was tubing in the narrows with what seemed like full ballast in his new Axis. Some other dicknut came barging into secret channel on full tilt surf wake in his Nautique. Its only 8' deep and maybe 30yrds wide where he blasted past me idling back out. I just about came unglued on that guy. He's responsible as a last straw for this rant.

I get the whole "if you can't stand the heat" argument. I even agree to a certain extent. I'm just seeing more and more wakeboats that produce bigger and bigger wakes for people that are clueless as to riding or being responsible for them. Its like the drunk chick at the bar who won't get off the jukebox and thinks she is the funniest person in the world. It's F'n annoying.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-20-2017, 11:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fence_sence View Post
I get the whole "if you can't stand the heat" argument. I even agree to a certain extent. I'm just seeing more and more wakeboats that produce bigger and bigger wakes for people that are clueless as to riding or being responsible for them. Its like the drunk chick at the bar who won't get off the jukebox and thinks she is the funniest person in the world. It's F'n annoying.
Haha I guess I'm just a glass half empty guy. If I want good/better/ok water, I know I need to show up early and get what I can before the drunk and the clueless. I've got zero expectations that my fellow man will worry that his actions are spoiling it for me. Drunk morons pulling tubes or just being drunk morons is pretty much the MO of everybody at our local lakes.

So when I can beat them to the goods and take my share before they show up, it's all gravy if the water stays good once they arrive. My expectation is that they're going to wreck it for me, and I'll be dragging my kids around on tubes while they drag their kids around. Can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Look I'm by no means advocating irresponsible boating (and I agree that pushing a giant wave in traffic is rude, irresponsible, and potentially actionable negligence). But those folks aren't here and they don't care. It's not like they're gonna want to have a reasonable conversation about it at the lake either.
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-20-2017, 12:13 PM Reply   
^^^I hear ya man. Its not like I'm pissed about the water conditions so much as I'm frustrated by the lack of common courtesy. When did common courtesy become so uncommon? It's getting hard to be the bigger boater and practice what I preach instead of just saying F it and start being completely thoughtless towards others. The whole thing is being compounded by big, beautiful wakes.

We'll be out through Monday. If you head out to Lahontan we'll be on either 3 or 5. You know my boat.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-20-2017, 12:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fence_sence View Post
^^^I hear ya man. Its not like I'm pissed about the water conditions so much as I'm frustrated by the lack of common courtesy. When did common courtesy become so uncommon? It's getting hard to be the bigger boater and practice what I preach instead of just saying F it and start being completely thoughtless towards others. The whole thing is being compounded by big, beautiful wakes.

We'll be out through Monday. If you head out to Lahontan we'll be on either 3 or 5. You know my boat.
shasta this week for us.

How green was Lahontan last weekend? Last I was there was the 9th and I thought a swamp think was going to emerge from the deep a couple of times. We pretty much stay on the Fallon side of the narrows (fewer yahoos on that side in my experience FWIW).
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       07-20-2017, 3:01 PM Reply   
It wasn't too bad considering it's been 35 days in a row of 90+degrees. There's still tons of water dumping in there.

We do our Shasta trip in June. Watch out for debris. My uncle lunched two props this year. I got lucky and didn't hit anything. I do however have some really nice new big chunks of driftwood in my yard.
Old    Trayson Harmon (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       07-20-2017, 5:25 PM Reply   
I agree with Nathan. I boat on the Columbia and Willamette rivers in Portland. my 3000 pound ballast surf wave is nothing compared to the 30 to 40+ foot cabin cruisers that constitute way more river traffic than wakeboats. And I certainly don't hold a candle to a 2000+ horsepower tugboat pushing a double barge down the river. Hell we get ocean freighters too.

There's always a bigger boat out there where I'm from. And no one bitches about the "need" to have a 40 foot yacht cruising at 15mph sending out rollers that could throw water over my hull.

But yeah, for the people in my boat that are learning, I dial down the ballast. because how much ballast do you really need to line ride!?!?!?!
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-20-2017, 11:55 PM Reply   
Just drove over Shasta on Monday. Couldn't believe how full it still is.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-21-2017, 12:04 AM Reply   
I honestly can't believe the whining that goes on here about other boaters. You guys either need to move, turn in your man cards, find a safe space, join a private lake or just join em when the people around you aren't doing what you think they should be doing. It's really that simple.
Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       07-21-2017, 2:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakemitch View Post
Wakesurfing is like golf

And not just because it is for affluent white guys.

Wakesurfers think the 100 lbs extra will be what it takes to finally get them to land that 360, or maybe it's the next years boat model, or maybe they need another $1000 board. It's just like golf clubs and people thinking they can just spend the money to get a stroke off their game.

While board shape and quality matters to some extent as well as the push of the wake, it is up to the rider to actually push themselves and do something.

I never see anyone do more than surf in a straight line or carve, yet they will have multiple $800+ boards on their $150k boat with a wake I wish I could get on.

I have no problem with big wakes like the OP, but I just want to see people taking advantage of them.
If this were the case across the board in wakeboats I would think wakeboat sales would drop by 90%-95% and 90% of golfers would be playing with busted up pawn shop golf clubs.
Old    D (infinitysurf)      Join Date: Apr 2017       07-21-2017, 7:38 PM Reply   
Yea, complaining about waves seems a bit silly coming from wake surfers. But if you are looking for the real reason, its cause most people are simply ignorant about the fact that what they do creates an effect on others, cause you cant fix stupid. No different than taking a walk thru the mall or anywhere else in the World, 90% of the people around you are dumbass sheep who don't know how to do anything right, why would they know how to act on a boat.
I am guilty of throwing a 4ft wake and am proud of it. I also am cognizant of where I direct the wave and usually defer to other boats, docks, etc....but if you are gonna anchor up in the middle of the channel to swim or lay in sun, I am gonna rock your boat (from 100ft away if possible) till you get pissed and move it. I just did this on Weds, they flicked me off on the first few passes but when I just smiled and waved to show them how fun the world could be if you didn't just lay in the sun all day, they realized giving me the finger didn't hurt my feelings and finally pulled anchor and went to the end of the cove where they should have been to start. I made sure not to bother them over there. So you guys can all thank me for educating 1 boater and making them wiser in future. Only a billion to go!
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-21-2017, 8:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitysurf View Post
Yea, complaining about waves seems a bit silly coming from wake surfers. But if you are looking for the real reason, its cause most people are simply ignorant about the fact that what they do creates an effect on others, cause you cant fix stupid. No different than taking a walk thru the mall or anywhere else in the World, 90% of the people around you are dumbass sheep who don't know how to do anything right, why would they know how to act on a boat.
I am guilty of throwing a 4ft wake and am proud of it. I also am cognizant of where I direct the wave and usually defer to other boats, docks, etc....but if you are gonna anchor up in the middle of the channel to swim or lay in sun, I am gonna rock your boat (from 100ft away if possible) till you get pissed and move it. I just did this on Weds, they flicked me off on the first few passes but when I just smiled and waved to show them how fun the world could be if you didn't just lay in the sun all day, they realized giving me the finger didn't hurt my feelings and finally pulled anchor and went to the end of the cove where they should have been to start. I made sure not to bother them over there. So you guys can all thank me for educating 1 boater and making them wiser in future. Only a billion to go!
LOL. Think I just found someone who thinks exactly like me.
Old     (WheelerWake)      Join Date: Mar 2013       07-22-2017, 6:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
LOL. Think I just found someone who thinks exactly like me.
Me too.
Old    Alan Henson (355spider)      Join Date: Aug 2015       07-22-2017, 10:47 AM Reply   
Biggest wakes on our lake are from 50ft Sea Rays.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-24-2017, 3:20 PM Reply   
growing up on the rivers in PGH PA, you could literally watch the wave come off the cruisers and prepare for the your boat to fly out of the water and land on your dock. One after another all day, all night and no one said anything. huge waves. large enough you could skim into the river off the bank and surf it. wake surfing doesn't even come close.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-25-2017, 12:26 AM Reply   
So yesterday, we get on the water. Launch the boat from our slip and look around. Upriver, there's 6 jetskiers circling around the area non stop. Downriver, there's a group of 6 50' yachts heading upriver. I already know this is about to be mayhem. It's a hot summer Sunday. What do I expect? We head downriver for awhile until the yachts' rollers go away. After that, we head back upriver to the place we love. Yeah, we still had to deal with some jetskiers, but I kept reminding myself that we don't own the place. No crying involved.
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-25-2017, 6:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
So yesterday, we get on the water. Launch the boat from our slip and look around. Upriver, there's 6 jetskiers circling around the area non stop. Downriver, there's a group of 6 50' yachts heading upriver. I already know this is about to be mayhem. It's a hot summer Sunday. What do I expect? We head downriver for awhile until the yachts' rollers go away. After that, we head back upriver to the place we love. Yeah, we still had to deal with some jetskiers, but I kept reminding myself that we don't own the place. No crying involved.
Come on Labor Day. My favorite riding is Sept-Nov.
Old    N L (drnate)      Join Date: Jul 2006       07-25-2017, 8:50 AM Reply   
These are all valid points. The one thing that is by far the most dangerous thing is when jetskiers want to jump my surf wave while I have a rider, especially one of my little shredders. Nothing gets Mama Bear more mad, either, she goes absolutely ballistic., and understandably so. Very dangerous.
One thing that I think would help some is that if everyone had to complete a mandatory water safety course. I have and everyone in my family has. Why don't all boaters? Especially jetskiers? Some of them are 13 year olds who know absolutely nothing. This is how people get killed and hurt.

And don't hate my massive surf wave, I try to stay as far away from everyone as possible. And, yeah, Sept-Nov is epic. And so is March-May. My favorite times for sure.

We completely avoid Holiday Weekends, its just not worth it
Old    Stephen P (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-25-2017, 8:56 AM Reply   
I gave two jetskiers the finger yesterday. I never do that sort of thing but they were basically waiting for us to start moving so they could jump our wakes. Wouldn't have been a big deal but I was working on my hs 5s and falling. So i'd fall and they would stop and wait, soon as I'd get up there they were right behind us jumping the wake. I'd try another 5 and fall and they would stop and wait till I got up again. I was already pissed that I was falling on hs 5 and its hard to get in the groove and concentrated when you have two brainless *******s trailing right behind you hijacking your wake. They saw my silent gesture and it was understood that we were not fans of their seadoo stunts. Problem solved, no further altercation.
Old    D (infinitysurf)      Join Date: Apr 2017       07-25-2017, 4:02 PM Reply   
Several "lake lice" jetskiers have been recipients of a full bottle of water to the body when pulling crap like that (jumping our wake) when my kids are riding. Puts my wife in an absolute rage and I fully support her. They got the message really fast and if you are close enough to get hit with bottle of water, then you are way to close.
In our State...if you are under 26yrs old you MUST take a water safety course to be able to drive boat or jetski. I am sure most of them don't still cause I see young kids driving all the time, but are supposed to and get a hefty ticket if pulled over. Love that law, should be nationwide, problem is you cant teach common sense.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       07-26-2017, 7:26 AM Reply   
We carry an airhorn in driver drink holder to blast the jet skiers. Gets their attention quick. I then wave them over and ask them WTF are you doing!! They usually leave us alone after that.
Old    Chris (Squamer)      Join Date: Oct 2015       07-26-2017, 7:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitysurf View Post
Several "lake lice" jetskiers have been recipients of a full bottle of water to the body when pulling crap like that (jumping our wake) when my kids are riding. Puts my wife in an absolute rage and I fully support her. They got the message really fast and if you are close enough to get hit with bottle of water, then you are way to close.
In our State...if you are under 26yrs old you MUST take a water safety course to be able to drive boat or jetski. I am sure most of them don't still cause I see young kids driving all the time, but are supposed to and get a hefty ticket if pulled over. Love that law, should be nationwide, problem is you cant teach common sense.
In my state everyone on the water running a 25HP of bigger needs a NASBLA safety course.. In my experience it did nothing to prevent idiots on the water.
Old    Steve Axis (MystiikVLX)      Join Date: Jul 2014       07-26-2017, 11:39 AM Reply   
I don't why all drivers shouldn't be required to have a boat license and take a boat safety class. Same idea as motorcycle endorsement, CDL etc
Old    Dean (Grizz)      Join Date: Jul 2017       08-19-2017, 10:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MystiikVLX View Post
I don't why all drivers shouldn't be required to have a boat license and take a boat safety class. Same idea as motorcycle endorsement, CDL etc


Here in Canada, anything over I believe 10hp requires a boaters licence issued by the Coast Guard. Also, I think you have to be over 16 to get one.

It does not stop all idiots but it also give you a course of action with the local police if someone is being dangerous.

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