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Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-14-2016, 8:16 PM Reply   
I'm going to post up some pictures from my first wakesurf board build. After months of research and gathering the needed tools and supplies I finally started my build a couple weeks ago. For my first build, I think its going pretty well. I'd really like to thank Shawn at Brigade & Brock at Doomswell. Both those guys were super helpful when I approached them for advice.

To keep cost down I decided to buy a block of 2lb density foam from a local foam supplier and buy my own hotwire foam cutter to cut the foam. The foam cutter cost me about what it would cost get one or two blanks shipped to Wisconsin from one of the blank retailers.


After cutting the foam, I cut a cedar stringer and glued it into the blank.








Next, I traced the outline from the template I made onto the foam.


Cut the outline.


Square the rails with Greenlight's rail runner tool.


Lots of work with the Grasp, hand plane and sanding.


The rocker profile is all set and the rail bands are ready to be cut.


Marked the rail bands.


Cut the first rail band.
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-14-2016, 9:06 PM Reply   
Blending the rails with a hard sanding block and 40 grit sand paper.


One half blended and screened (sanded with a 220 grit drywall sanding screen).


Sanding & screening complete.


Installing the Futures fin boxes using the one pass installation kit.


Mixed up some epoxy and glued in the fin boxes.


Before glassing the bottom, my wife painted the wood on one side. The saw blade and name were printed on rice paper and placed under the fiberglass.


Old    Derek (bigd1031)      Join Date: Mar 2008       12-18-2016, 7:35 PM Reply   
Looking good!!! Having built full size surf boards in the past I really appreciate the level or work and patience that goes into these projects.

Keep us posted on the progression and, most importantly, how it rides.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       12-20-2016, 9:08 AM Reply   
I wonder how expensive it was for this project?
Old     (wkndsurfer05)      Join Date: Jun 2015       12-20-2016, 10:38 AM Reply   
Looks like a great first try Andrew! Did your wife paint the wood right onto the foam or did she paint on paper and you laminated over it? What type of paint was it? Doesn't look like it bled once you put on your epoxy. Impressed, it looks really cool.
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-21-2016, 7:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNwakeboarder86 View Post
I wonder how expensive it was for this project?
The cost of materials and consumables to build this board was right around $205. To get that figure I took all of my supplies and divided the number of boards I can build out of them. For example, the foam block cost me $290.16 but I should be able to build about 16 boards from it, so it only costs $18.14 per board, which is a good place to start. To buy a Marko blank and have it CNC cut would cost about $75, but it would save a whole lot of time. That price also doesn't include a few specialty tools I had to buy like the hotwire and the Futures One Pass install kit. So if you were only planning to build one board the total cost would probably cost more than $205.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkndsurfer05 View Post
Looks like a great first try Andrew! Did your wife paint the wood right onto the foam or did she paint on paper and you laminated over it? What type of paint was it? Doesn't look like it bled once you put on your epoxy. Impressed, it looks really cool.
She painted right on the foam blank before glassing. The sawblade and "ripsaw" were printed on rice paper and laminated under the glass. We used Acrylic "tempura" paint which won't eat the foam.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       12-21-2016, 9:00 AM Reply   
man you really have me tempted. I am debating right now the blanks or cut it myself. So this was your first ever attempt? I like the fact you can make so many boards out of that.
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-21-2016, 9:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNwakeboarder86 View Post
man you really have me tempted. I am debating right now the blanks or cut it myself. So this was your first ever attempt? I like the fact you can make so many boards out of that.
You should go for it! I contacted 3 foam wholesalers and only one would sell me that small of a foam block. The other two had minimums that were about three times that size, but shipping for one blank to Wisconsin was outrageous. If you order 20 blanks and have them truck freight shipped then the shipping per blank is more reasonable.
Yes this was my first try, but I did lots of research and I did have some experience with fiberglass & epoxy.

https://greenlightsurfsupply.com/ Has an excellent how to manual that really helped me out. They are also a great place to source materials & tools.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...rxwF5od6gqvX07 This guy has a great series of videos that show you pretty much everything you need to know to build a surfboard.

Good luck, and if you start a build be sure to post up and let us know how it goes.

Last edited by RideaNeversummer; 12-21-2016 at 9:48 AM.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-22-2016, 6:48 AM Reply   
Are you using a mini trimming plane to trim your stringer? If so, how did you not gouged the Styrofoam? https://www.widgetsupply.com/product...FVKewAod8qUNPA
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-22-2016, 6:49 AM Reply   
[gouge] Sorry
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-22-2016, 7:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker1234 View Post
Are you using a mini trimming plane to trim your stringer? If so, how did you not gouged the Styrofoam? https://www.widgetsupply.com/product...FVKewAod8qUNPA
To trim the stringer I used a small Stanley hand plane similar to this one: http://www.sears.com/stanley-tools-1...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

I was careful, but it did take out a few more beads of foam along the stringer than I would like, but from the research I've done that sounds pretty normal. I don't have a picture of it, but I did do a filler coat before paint/fiberglass using watered down DAP Fast N Final. You just spread it on really thin with a squeegee then sand with the 220 sanding screen. It does a really good job of filling in spaces in the EPS foam (and fixing any mistakes you may have made) and its plain white so you can't see it after glassing.
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-22-2016, 7:53 AM Reply   
Here is a close up picture of the tail section while I was trimming it down to create the tail rocker. You can see a few more beads are missing right next to the stringer, but they filled in nicely with the DAP Fast N Final Spackle.

Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-22-2016, 8:36 AM Reply   
Thanks! Trimming the stringer was my biggest problem as I kept gouging the wood. Now I need to practice cutting the wood evenly. Any suggestions for making sure the stringer is even across the top.
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-22-2016, 9:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker1234 View Post
Thanks! Trimming the stringer was my biggest problem as I kept gouging the wood. Now I need to practice cutting the wood evenly. Any suggestions for making sure the stringer is even across the top.
Sorry, I'm not getting exactly what you are saying, can you describe what you mean by "even across the top"? Do you mean from the front of the board to the back of the board? What kind of wood are you using for the stringer?
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       12-22-2016, 10:11 AM Reply   
Ok what dimension block did you get. I might have over estimate my dimensions bc it was 380 for the block at 2lbs density. then 80 shipping. Did you use the 2lbs density? I am thinking of getting a small block then you. I might only do 8-10 boards if I enjoy It.
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-22-2016, 10:22 AM Reply   
The block I got was 24" x 48" x 60" and it is 2lb density. I ordered from ACH Foam Technologies and picked it up in person, but they could have shipped it. I think that was the smallest block they would sell me, but you can always ask.
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-22-2016, 12:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker1234 View Post
Are you using a mini trimming plane to trim your stringer? If so, how did you not gouged the Styrofoam? https://www.widgetsupply.com/product...FVKewAod8qUNPA
Ron, mini planers like that one tend to gouge because they do not slice the wood well due to the angle of the blade. Professional shapers mostly use razor blade hand planers (there are a number of good quality ones available), mini spoke shaves, and or Japanese block planers. We all have our favorites, for different applications, whether flat, or curved/spooned (convex). Over the years, we've experimented with more and more tiny planers designed for use in musical instrument building. Your typical pro probably has $200-$500 invested in hand planers alone. Much much more when considering power planers.

Nick
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-22-2016, 1:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNwakeboarder86 View Post
Ok what dimension block did you get. I might have over estimate my dimensions bc it was 380 for the block at 2lbs density. then 80 shipping. Did you use the 2lbs density? I am thinking of getting a small block then you. I might only do 8-10 boards if I enjoy It.
Nathan, if you decide all and all it is too much money and will take too much time. I can ship you raw Marko Foam Wake blanks and or pre-shaped blanks from my catalogue of proven designs. The Marko Foam is much higher quality. As you can see these billet cuts are pitted beyond belief and the beads aren't bonded together well. I can also ship you all the supplies you need to give a board build a go.

Nick
Old    Nick Rihel (RzNick)      Join Date: Aug 2014       12-22-2016, 4:28 PM Reply   
First off, awesome job Andrew!
I'm almost done with my fist board too. Just have to sand down the hot coat, and hopefully it will ride as good as it looks (to me). How did you build your hot knife? Pretty clever cutting your own blanks like that. I got mine from greenlight at the low low cost of $50 plus $40 to ship it. Then I started having fun and ordered a second blank before I even glassed the first one. But hey, that's how I roll. .
Old    Summer Henke (Summer225)      Join Date: Apr 2016       12-23-2016, 6:51 AM Reply   
Love the creativity of you guys......I LOL'd at your customs captions on your board Nick, awesome.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       12-23-2016, 8:11 AM Reply   
nick,

I recently emailed them from their site. I don't think I have heard back from them yet about their boards. I was suggested the same thing by day1wake, to order blanks possibly from them. I have been debating on which route to go. part of me thinks its a great project to keep my occupied over the winter with great satisfaction, I have heard its addicting. I like the thought of being able to do a bunch, bc I am a bigger guy and hard to find a board that works well for me. That way I can keep make changings on the board.

I have been researching there molded boards though.

thanks!
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-23-2016, 10:36 AM Reply   
I don't know about addicting, I've been building boards since I was like 14 years old, so I have my biases. It is a lot of work, it is dirty work. Very dirty work when the goal is to achieve a clean, clear spotless board. Even with a step by step guide most people basically fail. Their first few boards may look like a surfboard and may even ride OK (a flat piece of wood is rideable), but will not pass mustard at a factory. Expectations are usually where people go wrong. They have an end result in their head, and achieving that is difficult. Every step of the board building process, and there are a lot of them, can end in a little error or a huge mistake. Most mistakes are fixable, and those that can recognize the error and fix it are the ones that usually make a decent product. It is not a way to save money on a board. Materials and tools will add up to more than a custom board will cost you. If you forego stuff like fin box install kits (generally close to $200 with a small router), and power planer ($50 to well over $1000), and variable speed sanders you can still build a board. If you are handy you can build your own jig for cutting fin box holes. If you add up your time and what your hourly wage is at the real job then you are likely looking a very expensive board.

Shaping is the base of the board. It affects all other aspects of the board, but glassing is the most complicated and where most people get into trouble. It is not as simple as following a you tube video. You need to know, how much glass, how much resin, how to wet it out properly and how to remove excess but not remove too much. This is one of the problems with most billet foam blanks, they soak up water and resin like a sponge. Polystyrene beads are graded. Billets are typically composed of the larger beads because they fill the large space more easily, where as molded parts like packing parts use much smaller beads to form around the contours. All EPS is closed cell, but some has an extensive network of interstitial spaces between the beads. This is where the water and resin goes. The amount of resin has a huge impact on the way a board flexes which is the different between a proper lively feeling board and a brick.

As far as raw materials, shipping adds up, whether it is a roll of fiberglass, jugs of resin, or the oversized blank material. I shipped kits in the past, and a good 4-5 years ago the guys over at Marko and I started talking about shipping wakesurf specific kits as this is an underserved market. But it is generally not worth the effort. The reason I offered is shipping from Texas to Tennessee is far less than shipping from west coast to Tennessee, and I like to help people out.

As far as big boy boards, if you work with a professional you will have no problem jumping on a board that works for you. I think I mentioned it before, but you should look at a Ringer XXL. I even believe I have one that received a small puncture on the top glass that didn't go through the bamboo that I will be selling as a blemish, once I fix it. It will be hard to tell once fixed. Nevertheless, I could cut you a great deal on it. It is Tennessee orange.

Nick
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       12-23-2016, 1:50 PM Reply   
Ya. I remember looking at those. My thought process was if I build my own, or buy blanks and then build. I can trial and error until I find one that rides well for me. Then always have that in my pocket as a design. I hate that there isn't any real company in Knoxville Tn for this sport. HEad quarters of Malibu and supra in town, but no wake surf. Let me know that TN orange, whether I get it or not, I am sure my buddy would probably be interested in it. It stinks not having demo days with boards or people local with their custom boards. I will never EVer BUY PHASE 5 again, not only the board sucked but their customer service was full of lies and made promises to fix their mistake and never did what they said. O well lesson learned, I can tell you everyone I know here knows never buy phase 5.
thanks!
Old    Jon Chase (WakeSurf22)      Join Date: Dec 2016       12-23-2016, 6:40 PM Reply   
Super impressive, love the initiative!
Keep growing the sport guys!
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-25-2016, 2:13 PM Reply   
Nick Rihel,

Nice build! I love the twinzer fin setup. That's one I plan to try on one of my future builds. What did you do for a glass schedule? What type of rails did you go with? I also really like to traditional pin-lines and the way the red wraps around to the top. Did you buy the wake blank from Greenlight that you glue up yourself? That's the best option if your looking to get a single blank. That's also what helped me realize I can glue up my own blanks pretty easily.

The hotwire came from Hotwire Foam Factory. I got a refurbished one for $90 plus an extra $20 for the multi heat power supply which is a big plus when cutting a full 2' width of 2lb EPS. They sent me the 12 volt power supply first and it cut pretty slow, then they sent me the correct one which can go up to 18 volts and it cuts faster. Here is a link http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/051_In...ow_Cutter.html

Nathan,

I think you hit the nail on the head with building your own board so you can find one that rides well for you. Also, if your a DIY type like me, there is nothing better than using something you built yourself. It's like the Jeep Wrangler I built and custom painted. Sure I could have bought a Jeep that has a shiny paint job, but to drive around something that is one of a kind and to know I built it myself is priceless.
Old    Nick Rihel (RzNick)      Join Date: Aug 2014       12-25-2016, 7:23 PM Reply   
Thanks Andrew. I used the typical one 4oz. layer on the bottom two on the top. I order the kit from greenlight so all that was included. they have a really nice table for resin usage that helped out a lot. The rails.... Yeah I did those. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I wanted and in the end I just marked the center of the squared edge, 45* the top with the rail runner and blended it in. Mostly I just tried to make it look like my soulcraft. So I guess I went with a boxy rail 2/3 of the way to the nose and then just rounded it out through the thin nose of the board. The only thing I won't ever do again is the fangtail. That sucked to glass and then it guarantees burn through when sanding. I knew it was coming so I started with 400 grit and still burned right through. Just too much pressure on too thin of an area. But at least I can say I did it.
Good to know about the hot wire. I see myself building quite a few more of these so the cheaper the better. Waaaayy less than the $900 for a new soulcraft or other "custom" board.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       12-26-2016, 10:26 AM Reply   
any advice on painting? WHAT DID YOU USE OR COULD USE?
Old    Nick Rihel (RzNick)      Join Date: Aug 2014       12-27-2016, 5:33 PM Reply   
The only advice I can give is don't use any spray paint from Home Depot. It has styrene in it that will eat your foam. I found some liquitex stuff in the airbrush isle at micheals that is supposedly water based and it worked great. Lots of mixed reviews on that stuff though.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       01-23-2017, 8:33 AM Reply   
Ok, so this weekend I did a little work, I know the design isn't what I really wanted, but I tried using card board for template didn't work out, couldn't get it smooth, what did you use for a template that looked so perfect? Thankfully I cut all this one small as a practice board, but for no experience and free handing most everything not to bad now. I think, im just happy everything is smooth and level and right distance from the center line HA
Ok, how the heck do you post pics on here.
Old    Andrew Aslesen (RideaNeversummer)      Join Date: Feb 2014       01-23-2017, 8:48 AM Reply   
Oh man, I've been snowboarding to much and haven't been back here in a while. Posting pictures is a bit of a trick, I load them onto an online hosting site like Google Drive, then post the link to the picture in the thread.

As far as painting goes, I would suggest painting directly on the foam with Acrylic paints like "tempura" paint. It's cheap and won't eat the foam. Maybe Nick Wiersema has some other suggestions, he's been doing this for a while.

I made my template out of Medium Density Fiberboard "MDF". It's pretty cheap at Home Depot or Menards. I used 3/16", but you could use 1/8" as well, it would just be more flexible. I have a bit printer, so I designed my board on Shape3d then printed it out and traced it on the MDF and cut it out with a jig saw.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       01-27-2017, 7:45 AM Reply   
man, I went to the hardware store, thinking they would have spray paint with out that stuff in it. They told me what paint to use, I used it. It ate away at the foam, glad I used a trial form piece first. I am just going to go to Michaels and get that paint you suggested.

I am going to work on my hard rails tonight or tomorrow morning. Watching all the videos and seeing your pics, it blows my mind how you went from those lines to the very sharp rails and rounded. It doesn't seem possible, but then again im not creative by any means!
Old    Russ Schultz (ronix686)      Join Date: Feb 2017       02-10-2017, 2:19 PM Reply   
Nice to know I'm not the only crazy one trying to build boarding in my garage during the off season. What started out as an winter sanity project is becoming more of an obsession. Built a couple boards so far but they aren't much to look at. It certainly is a learning process. Currently using XPS foam for the low cost entry point but would like to graduate to a better quality EPS. Are you guying planning to vent your ESP boards?

My first board was built with 6oz S glass and stringerless so I added carbon fiber to the top and bottom. Its pretty ugly but its a start.

The second board was built with 5.7 oz carbon fiber and also stringerless. Excited to get some soft water to test them out. Soft water is pretty hard to find in North Dakota this time of year.
Attached Images
    
Old    Russ Schultz (ronix686)      Join Date: Feb 2017       02-10-2017, 2:32 PM Reply   
Anyone have any luck painting after the board is glassed? Or does it just scratch off? I was advised not the paint prior to glassing with XPS because it weakens the bond between the foam and the glass.
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-10-2017, 4:00 PM Reply   
Nice fins Russ.

Painting XPS doesn't really weaken the bond anymore than painting any foam. No point in painting foam if you are using colored foam or covering it in carbon fiber. Better to use pigmented resin. The problems with XPS or true styrofoam, especially pink, blue or yellow depending on the manufacturer, is it is tough to get any good bond. XPS has a tendency to outgas; is much more susceptible to heat issues (from straight up shear delamination in due to the sun or a hot compartment like a car, but even bubbling under a sander). Stiff fabrics like carbon fiber will lessen the shearing to an extent, but it will eventually fail. Venting helps with XPS, some manufactures literally put pin holes along the rails to let it the core outgas.

You can paint it with any rattle can paint pretty much once finished, but yes it can scratch off, even with a clear coat. A quality 2-part clear coat like is used on automobiles is the choice of professional builds. This is hard a protective.
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Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-13-2017, 7:50 AM Reply   
that's looks great. I have no idea if I am doing this right upload but here goes. I am not use to this at all. Anyways I started painting my board, its a small board but its my first one. I am about to order the resin and everything. My next board I want to do a foam skim, does the carbon fiber you all do really add extra strength?



Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-13-2017, 7:51 AM Reply   
I swear I copied and pasted the hyper link, I do not know what it wont load.
Old    Russ Schultz (ronix686)      Join Date: Feb 2017       02-13-2017, 7:55 AM Reply   
Carbon fiber actually has a lower tensile strength than S glass but it is something like twice as stiff. Many times it is used for the look
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-13-2017, 8:14 AM Reply   
Wow no idea, I thought everyone uses it because its stronger so you only use one sheet not two? So im making a very small board next more skim style, should I use the carbon fiber?
Old    Russ Schultz (ronix686)      Join Date: Feb 2017       02-13-2017, 8:26 AM Reply   
I'm currently building a small skim board for my girlfriend. Only using 1 layer of 5.7oz carbon fiber. Seems like it will be okay.
Old    Russ Schultz (ronix686)      Join Date: Feb 2017       02-13-2017, 8:30 AM Reply   
The carbon fiber costs a bunch more than fiberglass. The carbon fiber board will be stiffer than a fiberglass board with similar layup.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-13-2017, 8:32 AM Reply   
that looks awesome! I might do that for the skim board, you really cant paint it can you? Or can you paint it after the laminate then do the hot coat?
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-13-2017, 8:37 AM Reply   
WHy is the carbon fiber so much cheaper then the s cloth or e cloth?
Old    Russ Schultz (ronix686)      Join Date: Feb 2017       02-13-2017, 8:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNwakeboarder86 View Post
WHy is the carbon fiber so much cheaper then the s cloth or e cloth?


Carbon fiber is more expensive
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-13-2017, 9:06 AM Reply   
I guess the website is misleading, it says 35 bucks for one, then underneath it says full roll is 100 yards. Then I find it by the foot else where on the fit it says 5$ a foot. O well, you ever use the solarez resin? So that its easier to put resin and hot coat on ?
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-13-2017, 1:50 PM Reply   
Carbon/graphite fiber can and often have higher tensile strength than s-glass. S-glass can be comparable to graphite fibers in tensile strength.
The main take away to understand about carbon/graphite is that it add stiffness to a build. Yes it also adds considerable strength, part of the interpretation of strength is due to its high elastic modulus (takes a greater force to temporarily deform it), however do to its stiffness or poor elongation it can be somewhat brittle. It does not stretch as well as other fabrics therefore once an impact threshold has been met it tends to fracture and break. This is why you often see hybrid fabrics used, mixing more stretchable or elastic fibers with carbon fibers. This improves durability.

Nathan if you want to add a photo. Hit the the Go Advanced button and upload a file as an attachment.

Nick
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-14-2017, 6:39 AM Reply   
thank you chaos!

I hope this works
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Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-14-2017, 8:40 PM Reply   
I painted the deck tonight and figured Lets start the next one..stressful day at work, this is my release. Learned from first board how to start this one easier.
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Old    Todd Roberts (troberts2)      Join Date: Jan 2017       02-15-2017, 5:50 AM Reply   
Hey Nathan, What part of TN are you from? I may be interested in having you make me a custom one depending on your price.
Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       02-15-2017, 7:19 AM Reply   
I am in what I like to call Capital of boat manufacturing. I am in Knoxville TN. That first board was painted for my buddy, he is a DIE HARD UT fan. No idea why, I moved here from the coast of Carolina. Anyways. The second one you see is a design hybrid from skim/surf. I am a big guy, the next board I have ready to cut out will be a thick board and I hope it works well for me. For spins and learning tricks. All these boards are under 5 ft. My 4th template I made is for a big board, the thought process on that is, its very fun to ride multiple people, plus it will be a good beginner board and softer rails.

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