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Old     (Ccamp2)      Join Date: May 2012       06-21-2016, 10:55 AM Reply   
Apologize but it is hard to find feedback on uncommon boats wake and reliability.

Anythoughts on an Epic v23?

There is a ton of ballast but can the motor pull it? Does it itake a long time to fill up?
How is the surf wake?
How is the wakeboard wake?


Thanks everyone
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-21-2016, 11:43 AM Reply   
My experience is on one of the original builds in like 07' and one from ~2012

*Anythoughts on an Epic v23?

Big boat, awesome stock stereo, nimble when ballast is empty, spacious interior, great wakeboard wake - similar to the old nautique 210 shape but bigger, the boats I was in had no major rattles or noises that got annoying, over all seemed like a great boat.

There is a ton of ballast but can the motor pull it? Does it itake a long time to fill up?
The 07' I was in had the Volvo 8.1 - worked fine (but I heard those engines were ****). The newer one, not sure what engine the owner had. Ballast wasn't any longer than any other boat, and draining was very quick.

How is the surf wake?
Meh when listed... I think with the creation of the DIY Surf gates / Mission Gate / Suck-Gates it would be great. give the amount of stock ballast.

How is the wakeboard wake?
One of my favorites ever. Big, steep, and rock solid.
Old     (Epic21v)      Join Date: Jul 2013       06-21-2016, 11:46 AM Reply   
I have an Epic 21v same hull just 21' 6". The Wakeboard wake is alot of fun with the front ballast full and the rears about half and then empty some on the go to clean up either side at 22.7-23 mph at 70 feet. The wake is very sensitive with the deep v hull. As for the surf wake of is very steep when weighted. But when using a surf device like the mission gear Delta the wave is very long and has tons of push. If you have any other questions or want to see pictures or video of the wake fee free to message me.
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       06-21-2016, 11:57 AM Reply   
All of the above points are correct. However, I was changing the prop on my 21V and noticed a significant amount of flex in the hull. When I contacted Epic I was told little bit of flex is normal, don't worry about it. A week later while cruising at 30mph one of my rudders tore out from the bottom of my boat leaving a 4" square hole in the bottom. I was able to get the boat to shore but it sunk up to the winshield.

I contacted epic and was told I must have hit something and that their boats don't sink. I pressed the issue and was told if I wanted to ship it to Louisiana they would "look at it" after I told them that wouldn't be sufficient they simply stopped returning calls or emails. I claimed insurance and will never own or ride in an Epic again.

So in summary, yes they're nice boats if you never have an issue or expect to get any sort of customer service.

I have a G21 now and couldn't be happier.
Old     (Ccamp2)      Join Date: May 2012       06-21-2016, 1:27 PM Reply   
Thanks Sean.. Appreciate the feedback.. I would like a video of the wake.
Old     (Epic21v)      Join Date: Jul 2013       06-21-2016, 3:29 PM Reply   
These are videos of the old setup for both wakeboarding and surfing. Wake is wider and has a longer transition with the front ballast full.

wake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us3aR1v9Mc0 (ballast 3/4 full 22mph @ 70ft)

wave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQE6jEHfRk ( usual ballast setup is starboard side full with an extra 750 lbs bag in rear storage, port 1/3, front full 11.5 mph)
Old     (holdsworth)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-21-2016, 7:59 PM Reply   
The only thing good about the Epic is dual rudders... I actually really enjoyed driving it. But overall, it's just not a good boat, and resale value is going to be super low when you get around to that point. Buddy of mine had a 23v and it's gotta be the lowest on my list of boats I've been on/behind.
Old     (Minnesotasurfer)      Join Date: Feb 2015       06-21-2016, 8:41 PM Reply   
I owned a 2013 23v. I bought it new and put around 120 hours on it before selling it this December. What year are you looking at? The wake board wake is very big. To me the best wake was with barely any ballast. As far as a wave. I had a pretty decent wave, but j slammed it. My advice on this boat is don't buy one. It has to be an incredible deal to buy one. The Mercury Smartcraft computer system is a complete disaster. That thing throws system faults all the time on more boats than just mine. Even worse were the Drainmaster valves for the tanks. I had trouble with all of them and were replaced. Dealing with the company was also terrible. There aren't enough dealers and they were horrible about paying for warranty work. My honest opinion after owning one is don't buy it. The stereo was great. That's about it! If your looking at a budget boat look at Supreme, Axis, or Moomba. I bought a new Supreme s238 and the surf wave is unreal. It's huge, rides amazing, and has a 5 year warranty. There are better boats out there than Epic.

Last edited by Minnesotasurfer; 06-21-2016 at 8:43 PM.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-22-2016, 3:36 AM Reply   
Get an MB or, supreme If its a budget thing. Or even a used Malibu. I think I'd buy a gecko before epic
Old     (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-22-2016, 7:18 AM Reply   
I was an Epic owner for the last 8+ yrs. bought new in 2007. In 2009 while riding full ballast and turning around the port side rudder assembly pulled out partially, I was able to get it stopped up and pulled back to the ramp. Didn't call The manufacturer, just my ins, although they knew of it and we both chalked it up to snagging on a stump, etc. Then recently on April 29, we were fully loaded with all 4000# having a great day. My rider fell, I did the standard non power turn loop to pick him up, steering was at full lock Starboard. Short story long-I didn't feel anything, steering was binded and we were sinking, the entire rudder assembly on the port side pushed through the hull. Got it close to shore, sank to the windshield as well. Never contacted epic. Previous dealings since the fishing boats came out, they don't care about the wakeboat line anymore.

They are priced right in the used market for my budget but I will never buy another.
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       06-22-2016, 11:49 AM Reply   
Unless this is your idea of a good time DO NOT buy an Epic. 3 cases of rudder/hull failure in this thread alone. And the smart tow system is horrible. All they care about is fishing boats now. Can't see them making wakeboats much longer, then your resale is going to be even worse.
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Last edited by CPanner; 06-22-2016 at 11:53 AM.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       06-22-2016, 11:55 AM Reply   
wow. such an easy quality control issue to fix and it runs them out of the wake business. I just don't get people who hold themselves out as business folks. After the first mushy rudder mount issue, EVERY boat that went out the door would be triple glassed at those weak points. and i'd still be selling high end boats. just stupid. I bet you could even put together a DIY kit that owners could put on themselves to fix 90% of the issues.

wonder what it costs to insure an epic these days???

Last edited by denverd1; 06-22-2016 at 12:02 PM.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-22-2016, 12:00 PM Reply   
Holy crap! That would not be something that I wanted to see when opening the locker.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       06-22-2016, 7:34 PM Reply   
Note to self...do not buy a epic. Lol holy ****!
Old     (Ccamp2)      Join Date: May 2012       06-23-2016, 11:18 AM Reply   
Thanks everyone.. I was looking at a 2013 wiht 50 hours for 48k.. But will turn the other direction
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-23-2016, 2:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccamp2 View Post
Thanks everyone.. I was looking at a 2013 wiht 50 hours for 48k.. But will turn the other direction
You can get a nice used MB, Supreme, Axis for that. The build quality, the wake, the surf wave will be 10 times better.
Old     (pilsner31)      Join Date: Sep 2009       06-23-2016, 8:19 PM Reply   
I have an 07 with about 300 hours and have had zero issues. Bought it used in 09 with about 90 hours. Every brand has lemons. I agree the dealer network is almost non existent but I wouldn't shy away from it if you really want one. Unreal wakeboard wake, the goofy surf wave is awesome, regular is average. The only way I wouldn't buy one again is if I was a hardcore regular surfer.
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       06-23-2016, 9:54 PM Reply   
Sure every company has it's lemons but it's the way they handle them that shows what kind of company there are. My indicent occurred in 220ft deep water with my entire family on board and the only reason I made it to shore was the extra ballast pump I happened to have on board. All Epic could say is "our boats don't sink". You couldn't pay me to ride in or behind another Epic.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       06-24-2016, 6:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilsner31 View Post
I have an 07 with about 300 hours and have had zero issues. Bought it used in 09 with about 90 hours. Every brand has lemons. I agree the dealer network is almost non existent but I wouldn't shy away from it if you really want one. Unreal wakeboard wake, the goofy surf wave is awesome, regular is average. The only way I wouldn't buy one again is if I was a hardcore regular surfer.
Yeah but 3 examples alone on an already small production batch (relative to other companies) of boats rudders ripping out and sinking is enough to convince me as a consumer to avoid their brand.

That combined with the EPIC epic thread from a year or so ago.....Anybody know if that Texas "dealership" is still a certified EPIC dealer?
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-24-2016, 6:44 AM Reply   
My buddy had an '07 and they had to cut the cap off and replace it because the gelcoat bubbled so bad. Then they also replaced the entire interior. He also broke 2 (maybe it was 3) prop shafts and we almost lost it in Lake Powell when the shaft broke and the boat started filling up with water. Luckily the dual rudders caught the prop and he was able to swim under it and push the prop shaft back into the boat and we secured it with rope to keep the boat from sinking.

But the transom audio - that is a bad azz setup! Loved it! He had 8 JL Audio 7.7's across the transom and it rocked.
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       06-24-2016, 8:20 AM Reply   
It seems the best thing about the Epic's is their stereo.

Aside from the fact that they are Ugly, I always found it interesting that they designed a boat with 4k ballast, which was unheard of at the time, but if you fill the ballast right up the wake curls so you can't even fill it up all the way.

For all the reason mentioned above, I would never buy an Epic. There are just such better choices from more reputable brands. A Moomba, Axis or MB will serve you much better and the brand will still be making Wakeboats in a few years so resale won't be so low (Think Session, Gekko, etc...)
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-25-2016, 5:06 PM Reply   
Wow, that's nuts they wouldn't stand behind it. Any Epic owners have pictures of the rudder port backing? Is it very thin or a smaller area than typical? It's not rocket science to strengthen the area. I understand things happen and even if it should have been strong enough on paper it obviously isn't in practice. It should be a pretty cheap fix to do a recall and strengthen the rudder backing. If I owned one I know what I'd be doing before putting it in the water...
Old     (Mbling52)      Join Date: Jun 2016       06-28-2016, 2:11 PM Reply   
Im currently on my second epic (as my last one sank thanks to their great design) and even though the boat puts out a killer wake, their customer support and effort in building the boat has led me to never wanna go back to their company. We're the epic reps for the greater PNW area, but honestly I dont have much good to say about the company after all the years supporting them. The first 23v we had was super legit, and an all around great boat, great engine, lots of space, and one of the best looking boats ive ever seen on the lake. Sadly, that one sank about two years ago due to their poor design of a glass ballast intake which eventually cracked due to the vibrations of the boat, and brought the whole boat down. As we had loved that boat for the amazing surfing and space it had inside, we decided to get a new 23v. Now this is where everything begins to go south. After we had told them about their poor design and the reason for our last one sinking, they told us they would make changes to avoid the glass from cracking. It took us telling them three times to change it for them to actually do it. Not only did they manage to not fix it like they said they would the first time, they also managed to incorrectly place the windshield on, but even worse they mounted the transmission incorrectly - which would have resulted in a completely destroyed engine. On top of that, the GPS decided to not work so we were having to use smart tow based off of RPM. While that wasnt a huge deal, its just another thing added on top of everything else. The list continues, we found random bolts on the bottom of the hull, we found that they were also using the wrong kind of bolts/screws throughout the whole boat which would have destroyed the boat eventually, and they also did a horrible job on the upholstery. The boat pretty much looked like it was built by monkeys to say the least. And of course the people down at Epic were absolutely 0 help. After spending countless hours and dollars on fixing problems which shouldnt have been there in the first place, we got the boat which we had originally wanted.

With all of that said, i love the boat to death and its awesome. Its a nice, simple, killer wake boat - no complicated screens and computers to deal with and it looks amazing. I just wish it wasn't built so poorly.
Old     (pilsner31)      Join Date: Sep 2009       06-28-2016, 8:18 PM Reply   
Wow, I almost feel I should be knocking on the dock each time I launch. Agree they are awesome looking boats and riding behind them is better then 90% of the others I've tried. Any breakdowns I've had have been self inflicted. I just accidentally broke the plastic arm on the throttle body. But instead of paying the $400 for a Volvo replacement, I fabbed and installed one out of aluminum. Dodged a bullet there not Epic's fault. Such a waste of a great boat with the company though. The local dealer here dropped them a few years ago because of their lack of service. I'd be tempted to get another when it time to upgrade though. But more then likely will try something different.
Old     (Mbling52)      Join Date: Jun 2016       06-29-2016, 11:50 AM Reply   
R.i.p epic 1.0
Attached Images
 
Old     (CPanner)      Join Date: May 2015       06-29-2016, 6:49 PM Reply   
Just saw that pic on Instagram. Is that another failed rudder???
Old     (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-29-2016, 11:02 PM Reply   
No if you read his previous post it was a ballast intake pipe failure
Old     (LukeR103)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-30-2016, 11:58 AM Reply   
Years ago when Epic was getting into the wake market I had the opportunity to ride behind a few of their boats because I was in the wake industry. A thread on Wakeworld popped up praising the boats, and I voiced my opinion on how terrible they were. An Epic rep called up my boss the next day saying he should fire me lol. Luckily my boss was on the same boats as I and agreed with everything I said and backed me up, but it still goes to show what kind of company they are.
So.... I'm loving these threads
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-30-2016, 12:21 PM Reply   
The thing about the Epic 23V was that it introduced some cool new stuff to the market and was built right here on this forum. They kind of did the impossible really. Start a wakeboat company from a driveway/garage with no experience in the industry? Props to them! The build quality was just never the best that it could be though. It seems like their center console fishing boats are selling better than the wakeboat's ever did or maybe that is just my perception?
Old     (Iceberg)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-02-2016, 5:15 PM Reply   
I had an 07 23v. Never had a problem with it and I still get to ride behind it thanks to the new owners generosity. I did have to fix the hull where the rudder attaches because I hit something hard and damaged the hull, prop and shaft. If the repair is done correctly (you can search out my post on the subject) there is no issue with the integrity of the hull in that area. There have been many people that have hit something with the rudder and not really appreciated the damage that this can cause if you don't fix it right away. My boat was/is rock solid. No leaks, blisters or creaks.

I installed surf tabs a few years back and everyone that rides the wave really enjoys how well they work. Just a few days ago I was surfing with zero ballast , except for a few hundred pounds in the center tank. just using the tabs on the way back to the dock. Now I couldn't do much but go straight ahead, but I was surprised when I saw the pumps stop dumping water. With the tabs we used to go nearly full ballast, but 1/2 and a little gives a very good surfing wave.

It is a roomy simple boat. I can't comment on the newer models, but the quick ballast is similar in all the new boats, ala travel trailer quick sewage dump valves put to a different purpose.

There are better surf boats for port wave surfers. There are few better wakeboard boats. Love em or hate em, as long as you test and inspect a used one before you buy it, it is a good value boat.
Old     (phillywakeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-03-2016, 8:25 PM Reply   
I think you should buy an Epic from Texas Auto Liquidators!
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-03-2016, 9:59 PM Reply   
I'll set up the shipping for you.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       07-04-2016, 10:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillywakeboarder View Post
I think you should buy an Epic from Texas Auto Liquidators!
Nailed it
Old     (bass10after)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-04-2016, 2:01 PM Reply   
i wonder how much an epic weighs suspended in water, that dock looks overloaded
Old     (Mbling52)      Join Date: Jun 2016       07-07-2016, 11:13 AM Reply   
it may have been one of the most depressing sights ive ever seen. Although it did result in getting a new one. Aside from Epic messing up almost every possible thing there is to mess up, i love everything about the boat. We were deciding between a super air nautique, tige, wakesetter (yuck) and the epic, and im very happy we went with epic.

We did re do all of the upholstery though, as well as put in new floor matting

Also got plans to do a nice wrap on it, thats what the camo rendering is
Attached Images
  
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       07-08-2016, 1:43 PM Reply   
Chooseing the Epic over a new SAN was an epic fail.
Old     (KJonesWakeboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2016       07-08-2016, 5:50 PM Reply   
Hahahahaha ^^^^^ agreed
Old     (Mbling52)      Join Date: Jun 2016       07-15-2016, 12:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabledog View Post
Chooseing the Epic over a new SAN was an epic fail.
yeah well, we decided to go with epic just because we had already had one so it was easier and cheaper. We already had a trailer for it, we knew the whole layout of the boat and so it was easy to work with. and most importantly we knew (or we thought we did) all the problems it had so we could fix them. I wasn't too impressed with the air nautiques. If i had a choice again id prolly go with centurion. But i have no complaints about our epic this year, aside from having the practically rebuild the whole thing after getting it.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       07-15-2016, 1:25 PM Reply   
" I wasn't too impressed with the air nautiques. If i had a choice again id prolly go with centurion. "

Now that right there my friend, is FREAKING COMEDY!
Old     (fuzzball147)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-17-2016, 12:29 PM Reply   
I have a 2008 that I bought in 2010 with 75 hours on it. I have never had a problem with it, the only thing I had to replace was one of the intake pumps when it went out. I have the 8.1 Horizon motor, it's been pretty much bulletproof. I have never had an issue with the Smart Tow system, just had to teach myself to use the stop button on the throttle handle to stop the motor rather that turning off the key because that also turns off the GPS and it takes a bit for it to reset when you turn it back on. I love the room and the dual rudders, it's been a fantastic boat. It sucks that there aren't more dealers around, but then again I've never really needed one either. Just my personal experience...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-18-2016, 6:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
" I wasn't too impressed with the air nautiques. If i had a choice again id prolly go with centurion. "

Now that right there my friend, is FREAKING COMEDY!
I mean I might take an ri217 over a g21 for the money....
Old     (LukeR103)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-18-2016, 11:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbling52 View Post
We already had a trailer for it,.....
But i have no complaints about our epic this year, aside from having the practically rebuild the whole thing after getting it.

Did you already have a trailer for it because your last one sank?
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-19-2016, 8:53 AM Reply   
There is a buyer for every boat and the Epic just proves that.

I could never imagine choosing an Epic over Malibu or a CC. Ever.

But if the Epic was 1/2 the price they aren't really comparable.

Kind of like saying "I chose the Kia over the Ferarri". We all know they aren't the same quality and aren't worth the same.
Old     (Mbling52)      Join Date: Jun 2016       07-19-2016, 12:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
There is a buyer for every boat and the Epic just proves that.

I could never imagine choosing an Epic over Malibu or a CC. Ever.

But if the Epic was 1/2 the price they aren't really comparable.

Kind of like saying "I chose the Kia over the Ferarri". We all know they aren't the same quality and aren't worth the same.
that analogy is a bit drastic but i see what youre saying. I just seem to like the simplicity of the boat a bit more. No having to deal with stupid tv screens on ur dashboard and faulty computers. And its got tons of space inside and has an awesome surf wake, so why spend an extra $60k-$80k
Old     (timmay208)      Join Date: Jul 2016       07-19-2016, 3:09 PM Reply   
i have a 08 23v that i got this year from a buddy, he bought it brand new in 08 and has never had a big issue. I do have some complaints about surfing behind it but at same time in 08 surfing wasnt as big as it is now. My boat puts out alot of random water spray when surfing that splashes you in the face which gets annoying but we deal with it.
I get nothing but compliments around here on my boat, and for a 8 year old boat im pretty happy with it so far, ill eventually sell it and get something more wake surf oriented but for now this does the job for us
Old     (london)      Join Date: Mar 2016       08-24-2016, 5:17 PM Reply   
i have a 2014 with zero problems! 167hrs
Old     (Wakesurfection)      Join Date: Jul 2017       10-16-2017, 2:09 AM Reply   
Hi does anyone know if Epic are still making wakeboarding/wakesurfing towboats? I tried to get in touch with Chris who mentioned that they were still planning to produce wakeboats and perhaps even a big boat. I tried to follow up with Chris but havent heard from him. I even called the Epic factory who said they were only doing Bay Boats. I cant find anything on the Epic website about wakeboats. Anyone else with info on this?
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       10-17-2017, 9:17 AM Reply   
They got out of the wakeboat business. Believe the factory. They know what they are and are not making.
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-17-2017, 4:51 PM Reply   
If the Epic factory told you they weren't't making them why would you ask on here?

Obviously they are not if they said they are not.....Here's your sign!!
Old     (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-30-2018, 7:05 PM Reply   
Just put a deposit down to purchase a '13 Epic 21v for 38K and after reading this mess and other posts, will see how hard it will be to get my deposit back. Wow. They look like nice boats and like the IDEA of pretty much unlimited ballast in seconds but they seem to have some major structural issues. Sorry for your troubles Mitch.

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