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Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-19-2014, 10:53 AM Reply   
I just sold my 2007.5 built duramax two weeks ago. I loved the truck but I work down town and the stop lights where kill my MPG. Plus the truck had 173k miles on it and every thing but the performance stuff was falling apart. So I put it up on craigslist and sold it for 2,000 more than I paid for it a year ago. So we pay off my wife's SRT8 charger (So I still have a fast car if I want to play). And start to look for a 2007-2009 Sierra Denali, I love the 6.2 power.

I call up a dealership an hour away that had one. The price is alittle more than I want to pay but I wanted to see what they would do on the price. The sale rep was nice and he hand the phone to the sale manager since he couldn't do anything with the price.

I told the guy if we could work out the price I would leave right after work and come down and buy it.

The Sales Manager doesn't even say hey how are you he answers YES. Like I was bothering him. SO I ask what he could do on the price. He begins to tell me how its the lowest priced one in 500 miles. So I tell him he's not there's another one within a 100 miles of me thats 4,000 under him. Minus the rear DVD player. He didn't like and he say's that why his is more expensive. I say 4000 for a DVD player. And it just gets worse from there I end up hanging up on him.

How do these people actually sell cars.

Oh and I love how dealers now say no haggle price, say's who. Just because you say it's priced as low as it can go doesn't mean that what I'm going to pay that for it.

Sorry I know it's not that bad but Damn

Last edited by jonblarc7; 08-19-2014 at 10:59 AM.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-19-2014, 11:06 AM Reply   
Every time I need a newer (used) car/truck/motorcycle/boat/etc I end up getting impatient and trying to go the dealer route and it's always a bad experience. Over the years I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth even talking to them. If the price is good the vehicle isn't and if the vehicle is good the price isn't. They obviously found a person willing to sell them that vehicle at a decent amount less than they're trying to sell it to me for so why can't I just be patient and find that next person before they go to the dealer? I won't be someone else's profit margin on a used vehicle.
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       08-19-2014, 11:13 AM Reply   
Personally I think Truecar gives a really great price with no haggling. Normally you get 2 or 3 certificates from real dealers in your area that will honor it. Done deal.

But yes. I feel your pain.
Old    Patrick Castro (patrick232)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-19-2014, 11:24 AM Reply   
I tried to buy a 2014 from the closest Chevy dealer to me and my office, they will be moving the dealership across the street this fall. Driving a new 2015 Chevy from the furthest dealer in Columbus from the office. They just dealer traded the 14 away since it was on there lot since October, wonder if they lost money on it.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-19-2014, 12:25 PM Reply   
That's too bad, guy blew a sale playing ********. Obviously there are shady dealers. But there are also good ones. For others new to the dealer world, If you do your homework & know what a fair price is then you are already well ahead. First thing is to accept they are there to make money so the deal must be fair for both parties. Second is to arm yourself with your credit score, perhaps even get a pre approval so you know exactly what your pyt should be so they can't play the "what do you want your pyt to be" 4 square bull**** game. I walk out as soon as they pull the 4 square out, I usually just tell them, I have excellent credit, pull it out I will walk. What is the best price you can do? I'm on my third Ram from one dealer & I feel they gave me a killer deal every time & I trust their service department. I really cannot say enough good things about this dealership. The last truck I bought they wouldn't give me & noted mopar was desperate when I last stole a truck from them but they still came 8k off sticker & paid off the other truck which was upside down (bad decision to refi vehicle for boat down pyt) so it worked out well for me again
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-19-2014, 6:30 PM Reply   
I would have fired the salesman for negotiating with you on the phone on a car you have never seen or drove.
Old    August (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       08-19-2014, 7:17 PM Reply   
Sounds like a bad dealer. I used to go in and haggle for 3-4 hours till I got the price I wanted. Even let my kid cry for a while to annoy them, it worked.

But last 2 purchases I have just called like you did and say "i'll pay .... or go to this dealer who said they'd take ..." It worked both times, ford dealer and honda dealer. once used and one brand new..
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       08-19-2014, 8:30 PM Reply   
I don't do the payment picker deal either. I want the OTD price and that's what it is.
Went through it with ford 8-9 months ago when looking for a 6.7
Got into it with the sales mgr, when I told him, I can do 1 pyt, 6, 10, 50, 72, don't care, as long as I get the OTD price I want.
I get frustrated quick with the dealer run around.
And the we don't have X, but we have Y that we can get you a great deal on, etc.
I usually prefer to deal private party if I can
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-19-2014, 10:02 PM Reply   
Do you realize how many calls a day they get like that? If you're serious about it, go down there with money or checkbook in hand, then talk numbers.

What is the point of negotiating the price over the phone for an hour, then you drive down there and don't like the car, then change your mind. What was the point of the hour conversation? Or why would the salesman waste an hour on the phone when he can help a customer on the showroom floor?

Quit being lazy and go check out the car to see if you even like first
Old     (Jwredmon101)      Join Date: May 2014       08-19-2014, 10:13 PM Reply   
Yeah for real! .. Hey I called you to let you know your truck is 4000 dollars higher than the next guys... Why didnt you go buy the other truck that is 4000 dollars cheaper.. I love the calls "um yeah whats your bottom dollar on that truck".. me " have you seen or drove the truck. No but im not wasting my time if you cant get the price I want. Just lazyness
Old    Matt H (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       08-20-2014, 6:13 AM Reply   
^^^^ What those 2 guys said.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-20-2014, 6:34 AM Reply   
There is absolutely nothing worse than buying a car. Almost rather be SHOT!!! The games they play once you hit the dealer makes me wanna go postal every time I do it.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-20-2014, 7:02 AM Reply   
We buy lots of vehicles for our fleets and it is an off/on battle. We come with our own financing and usually pay 50% down to start with and still are treated terrible. We did have a GMC dealership in the area where we worked with the owner and he was always like invoice plus $500 and no haggle. We would call and order a truck and than paperwork and everything was filled out and we would show up and sign and be gone in under 1 hour. We are looking at buying a bunch of Nissan NV's right now and dealing with Internet Salesman. I am checking out TrueCar and it seems like it is an interesting option.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-20-2014, 7:50 AM Reply   
^^^^^So your saying a buyer an hour away calls up say's he's already driven several GMC denali's loves them and has 799 credit score and is ready to come down there today and buy the truck, If we can get close on the price. Your going to tell them it is what it is and act like I'm wasting your time. Yea then I'm not wasting my time buying from you then. There's only like 10 more Denali's in 150 mile radius right at your price or a little cheaper I'll go see if they'll work with me.

The reason I'm not buy the truck 4,000 cheaper is it's silver. It's that simple, I'm picky and I don't like silver Denali's
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       08-20-2014, 8:11 AM Reply   
Just because they happen to be the same year, similar miles, and equipment doesn't always mean they should, or will sell for the same price. It's just like a boat with the same year, similar hours, and similar equipment. One could have sat in the sun uncovered, hardly maintenanced, and just not taken care of...VS someone who keeps it garaged, wiped down after every use (inside & out) followed the scheduled maintenace, and just plained babied. I think everyone here would agree that they would pay more for the one that was better taken care of.

The same goes for cars too...IMO
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-20-2014, 8:20 AM Reply   
And that's the reason they do not and should not negotiate the price over the phone. You do not want the 4k cheaper car because it is silver. I am also willing to bet it is optioned differently, as very few cars are exactly the same when shopping used. You tried to use the 4k cheaper model as leverage, even though you had no intention of buying it. There was no other reason for you to mention the other car, but you knew what you were doing. And then you are mad he didn't want to play YOUR GAME. Even better

So yes, you were not serious and you were wasting his time.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       08-20-2014, 8:30 AM Reply   
I think what you guys might not take into account is the saleman and dealerships take "Waste of Time" calls similar to yours all the time. Not that yours is a waste of time, but there are tons of people who call, try and negotiate a low price on a vehicle and never ever show up to even look at it, have awful creit or are just lying. As mentioned above you will get much much further negotiating if you went and actually looked at the truck. If the salesman has never met you he might just lump you into the "Craigslist" category.
Old     (Jwredmon101)      Join Date: May 2014       08-20-2014, 8:31 AM Reply   
^^^ exactly
Old    August (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       08-20-2014, 8:32 AM Reply   
When I called for my last 2 cars, it was a 5 minute call.

Me: hi, can I talk to sales manager.
SM: can I help you
me: we are both busy, I want car x on your lot, but dealer y has similar for .... . If you can do price ... I'll be there in one hour, check in hand
SM: let me check...yes.

Nothing more to it.

For the new car, I just looked up dealer invoice, added 700 for their fees and asked for that price. It was also 2 months before the next year models were arriving.

Last edited by augie_09; 08-20-2014 at 8:34 AM.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-20-2014, 8:37 AM Reply   
Must be lots of car salesmen in here. Buying my Tundra at the stealership was a nightmare and hours of my time I will never get back.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-20-2014, 8:47 AM Reply   
Ok since there seems to be a lot of car sales men on this thread let just see if I was out of line thinking I could get them to the price I wanted. 90,000 miles fully loaded. They wanted 26,950$

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...78693704&Log=0

I was wanting to get it down to 24,000
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-20-2014, 9:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by augie_09 View Post
When I called for my last 2 cars, it was a 5 minute call.

Me: hi, can I talk to sales manager.
SM: can I help you
me: we are both busy, I want car x on your lot, but dealer y has similar for .... . If you can do price ... I'll be there in one hour, check in hand
SM: let me check...yes.

Nothing more to it.

For the new car, I just looked up dealer invoice, added 700 for their fees and asked for that price. It was also 2 months before the next year models were arriving.

Purchasing a new car is different than a used. On new cars, you can find out dealer cost, invoice, etc. Used cars you have no idea what they took it in as a trade, if they purchased from another source, how much they invested to get it looking good again, etc. Granted they usually make more margin in used cars, but you never know.

Buying cash or financing also plays part as the dealer usually gets back end money from the bank financing as well.

I sold cars in college and it was a fun gig, but many buyers out there just do not get it. You get people in the door who say they need to finance, have 5k to put down, but their payment can't be more than $250, but want a 30k car. They think you are trying to rip them off because you can't make that happen. $250 over 60 months is 15k, plus their 5k only brings them to 20k, still 10k short, not including taxes and fees. And unless you are paying cash, your OTD price really isn't OTD. If you end up financing the car, your 20k OTD is more likely 27k+

I'm not trying to belittle the OP, but when you're ready to seriously negotiate, go down to the dealer and inspect the car first. I would be willing to bet if you're a good negotiator, you could have gotten the car to 24k.
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       08-20-2014, 9:26 AM Reply   
I went to KBB.com and it looks like a great price. Trade in value is $26,307.

http://www.kbb.com/gmc/sierra-1500-c...etype=trade-in

Private party is $28,926

http://www.kbb.com/gmc/sierra-1500-c...tion=excellent

Sounds like you low balled him to me.
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-20-2014, 9:27 AM Reply   
One last note, don't tell the dealer you can get one for X amount less, just negotiate your price. If you feel they cannot meet your wants, get up and walk away. The moment someone says another dealer has it cheaper, one of two things is going on. Either you do not like the less expensive car for whatever reason, or the car does not exist. In either situation, you are taking to someone with a car that YOU WANT, otherwise you would be purchasing the less expensive car and not haggling them
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       08-20-2014, 9:33 AM Reply   
If I was selling this vehicle on Craigslist I wouldn't respond to someone offering me $24000 for a vehicle that KBB says I could expect 28ish. I wouldn't take that as a serious offer.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-20-2014, 10:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnichols View Post
If I was selling this vehicle on Craigslist I wouldn't respond to someone offering me $24000 for a vehicle that KBB says I could expect 28ish. I wouldn't take that as a serious offer.
I wouldn't agree to the price via email/phone but if someone sounded serious and was within 15% of my asking price ($24k is 14.3% less than $28k) I'd tell them to come look at it and we'll talk. If they're starting negotiations within 15% of my price and I'm confident in the condition of the vehicle that's a pretty good place to start. After they drive it and build a bit of an emotional bond with it they'll probably easily move to within 10% of my price. I've bought and sold a lot of vehicles (and other crap) on craigslist and have rarely shown something to a potential buyer in person that didn't ultimately buy it for at or above what the bottom line price I had in my head was.

Dealers always seem to have their used stuff listed well above book value anyway so the OP's tentative offer was probably closer to book value than the asking price if I had to guess.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-20-2014, 10:18 AM Reply   
I just want ya'll to know I realize they need to make money too. I was starting low to work my way back to somewhere in the middle. But it is what it is the search will go on. And the only reason I brought up the other truck is his opening line after I asking him what he could do on the price was. And I quote "I'm the cheapest one with in 500 miles". That's when I told him no your not, It's not like I don't look at the internet everyday a couple times a day with a 200 mile radius for my next truck.
Old    August (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       08-20-2014, 11:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 View Post
Purchasing a new car is different than a used. On new cars, you can find out dealer cost, invoice, etc. Used cars you have no idea what they took it in as a trade, if they purchased from another source, how much they invested to get it looking good again, etc. Granted they usually make more margin in used cars, but you never know.

I can see that.
Old    Tom Williams (Twill)      Join Date: Oct 2012       08-20-2014, 11:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsupralaunch View Post
I would have fired the salesman for negotiating with you on the phone on a car you have never seen or drove.
+1
Old    Matt H (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       08-20-2014, 1:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 View Post
Purchasing a new car is different than a used. On new cars, you can find out dealer cost, invoice, etc. Used cars you have no idea what they took it in as a trade, if they purchased from another source, how much they invested to get it looking good again, etc. Granted they usually make more margin in used cars, but you never know.

Buying cash or financing also plays part as the dealer usually gets back end money from the bank financing as well.

I sold cars in college and it was a fun gig, but many buyers out there just do not get it. You get people in the door who say they need to finance, have 5k to put down, but their payment can't be more than $250, but want a 30k car. They think you are trying to rip them off because you can't make that happen. $250 over 60 months is 15k, plus their 5k only brings them to 20k, still 10k short, not including taxes and fees. And unless you are paying cash, your OTD price really isn't OTD. If you end up financing the car, your 20k OTD is more likely 27k+

I'm not trying to belittle the OP, but when you're ready to seriously negotiate, go down to the dealer and inspect the car first. I would be willing to bet if you're a good negotiator, you could have gotten the car to 24k.
Only morons nogiate payment amounts... ever since those clowns on TV in vegas started it everyone does it now. They hide all kinds of interest rates and other fees into that Bull****. Funny as hell watching people at the deaships trying to lower their payments... LOL .... also the old... thee phone on the desk is left turned on conference call, while the sales men listen to what the customers are talking about while they are raping you side ways.
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-20-2014, 2:23 PM Reply   
You can negotiate payment amounts, but you need to have your homework done and know what you are paying ahead of time. But even if you negotiate the total price, if you are not paying cash, you better know your credit score going in, and what rates are available. You're right, they will had all kinds of fees and overcharge you if you are not educated in this. They will sell you a 15k car for 30k via payments as long as you are happy and don't get it. When I sold, I didn't rip people off, although it taught me a lot about buying things now days
Old    Matt H (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       08-20-2014, 4:42 PM Reply   
Majority of those aftermarket warranties are a complete F'ing joke. Had a pontiac G5 and my warranty expired 2 weeks before I took it in for a steering column problem.. Few thousand to fix the told me...... they tried to sell me an extended warranty for the car for 4500.... holy cracky.... then she claims that since its out of factory warranty she's doing me a huge favor by not asking promission from her supervisor. .... thats more than the car was worth... and the best part about it. It didn't cover the steering column issue because that issue occured between warranties. ... LOL
Old    Matt H (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       08-20-2014, 4:46 PM Reply   
Aftermarket warranties are a huge rip off. If you actually read the fine print... they always have a deductible of like 800 bucks... screw me hard please.... and they have maximum allowable on items. Life insurance is also a scam. They claim you will get all this money back at the end of the loans ect.... ya don't take that either. Their rates are hundreds of times higher than banks ect... they will give you the whole. ... it's mandatory speach.... same old same old BS.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-20-2014, 7:11 PM Reply   
^^^Almost all of this is incorrect except for the Life insurance aspect. Coverage is dependent upon the product you choose and I've never seen a deductible over $100 on warranties. I've had a few aftermarket warranties and they've saved my ass and way more than played for themselves. Good protection is usually 2k-$2500 depending on the type of car you're buying.

The reason dealers don't like to negotiate over the phone is because you haven't seen the vehicle. You haven't driven it, seen the condition, etc. Nearly every time someone would agree to a price over the phone they'd come in and think that was the new negotiation starting point. Its a joke. Buyers lie WAAAAYYY more than dealers.
Old     (Jwredmon101)      Join Date: May 2014       08-20-2014, 7:50 PM Reply   
Did you even offer 24000 or did you just get into a ego pissing match .. Sounds like from your comments you went with number 2.
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       08-20-2014, 8:18 PM Reply   
Email the sales manager a stack o hundees. Namsayin yo
Works every time.
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       08-21-2014, 12:57 PM Reply   
Just imagine if we could do this sort of negotiation on boats. Ha.

The car dealerships are one of the worst experiences and its one of the reasons why I plan to keep my paid off truck until the wheels fall off.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-22-2014, 7:13 AM Reply   
I've used other dealer prices negotiating before. When I got my Avalanche, I looked at another before getting mine. Mine is about as loaded as you could buy it. This one had less options, a bit more miles and wasn't in as good of shape + the dealer was asking more. I sat down the guy and told him flat out "I'm willing to buy your truck. Here is the truck the other dealer is selling. Lower miles, same year, better shape, more options. How much LESS are you willing to go than that obviously better vehicle." They couldn't even match the price so I walked and bought from the other dealer.

I also brought in several dealer adds for similar CPO Audi's when we got my wife's car. They were a bit of a drive but less money...made it hard for them to justify their price and got them to where we needed them. During all my car negotiations, it is always the out the door, after tax price. That way any fee's they want to put in there they can, as the final price I am willing to pay is what I'm negotiating. I know the price I want to pay and what the tax (something they have no control over) will be, and know that final number when I start with my initial offer.

As for the truck in question, looks decent other than the driver's seat. Price is probably about right. But if you want that generation Sierra Denali, you really should consider a similar vintage/mileage/condition Escalade EXT:
- Same motor/ and drivetrain
- Interior is similar except the dash and gauge cluster, which is nicer on the Escalade
- 22" wheel package is nicer than the Denali's
- Better looking overall - in my opinion - than the Denali, though I like the look of the Denali too
- Slightly better ride quality on the Escalade
- Great bed cover setup on the Escalade

All that, and what you are really giving up is a little bed width (but in exchange you get the highly useful side pockets in the bed...something the new Ram trucks have adopted). People claim the Avalanche / Escalade must not tow as good because they run rear coil springs, but I have hauled over double my payload rating without any crazy sag in the back and don't have the air leveling suspension the Escalade has. The newer Ram 1500 and newest Ram 2500 are now running coil springs in the rear too.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-22-2014, 10:30 AM Reply   
I've thought about the EXT. Just like a-little bit more of a real truck than that. But saying that my dad was always a Cadillac guy and I have been one too. So my dream is to get a Denali in the low 20's. Pay it off and the boat and in a year or two have a CTS-V sitting in the drive way to take to work. LOL
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-22-2014, 11:31 AM Reply   
The EXT will ride nicer than the Denali too because of those coil springs. You might take a hit on the gas mileage with the EXT though because those mofo's are heavy!
Old    Tom Yokoi (countryguy1717)      Join Date: May 2013       08-22-2014, 7:18 PM Reply   
Not sure if this was covered but does the Denali really have more power than a duramax Allison?


That being said lots of dealers will just hold a vehicle in hopes someone will pay what they ask. When I bought my 2013 charger brand new I told them I had 11k cash and a loan for 10k. So I told them after test driving I could offer 21k out the door, he asked his manager because it was listed at 23k plus tag and title (about 25k). Manager said no. I said thank you, left. 3 hours later at home I get a call telling me they can work with me, I gave them the same bottom line and they agreed.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-23-2014, 9:38 AM Reply   
The denali has lot of power but my old duramax would kill it. That thing was putting down 550 HP to the ground and and a 1000 in torque. But like I said it was in the shop every other month with things going wrongs with it since it had 173,000 miles on it. So I just want something that has some power but I can drive it everyday and only pull the boat on the weekends.
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-23-2014, 10:16 AM Reply   
I have 163000 on my duramax and the thing has been rock solid, other than changing the water pump. I even have the original brakes on there. Always have them checked and I'm always told they are still good
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       08-23-2014, 10:21 AM Reply   
238k on my 6.blow, rolling 22x14's and 37s. Thing is rock solid and I'm running just over 500hp at the wheels
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-23-2014, 11:54 AM Reply   
I'd used Craigslist for nearly all of my vehicle buying and selling. Much easier than dealing with a dealer. Since good vehicles are getting rare these days it's usually a few hundred mile drive and I've had no trouble getting more detail, close up pictures of certain areas, and negotiating price by email and phone. So when I set off for a 4+ hour drive each way I know it's what I want and we're very close on price. Even being the one with more to lose driving a few hundred miles I've had no trouble negotiating price a bit lower on occasions where I've found issues in person that I had not expected.

Having a middle man (the dealer) just brings the price higher and adds aggravation, totally not worth it to me. I have looked at dealer inventory the last go around for a truck just because it was so hard to find what I wanted and thought maybe a dealer closer would have on. Fortunately not so I didn't have to deal with wildly inflated price and salesman hassle. If the a dealer is giving you grief just skip the dealer altogether, or try a different dealer if they have what you're looking for.

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