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Old    Boardjunky (hookedonboardin)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-20-2014, 8:09 PM Reply   
Well it's about time to upgrade our 04 SANTE.
We just really need more space as we entertain a bit more these days. We are also looking to up the surf wave. We have a regular crew of about 6 split right down the middle at 3 goofy and 3 regular riders. I ride goofy so primarily focused on this side for a wave. Wakeboarding is still our primary focus on the wake. Surfgate really has us leaning T22. The A22 styling and interior just does not do it for us. It also rides pretty low. We love the steep SANTE wake if that era so looking for some wake shape comments as well.

I know a demo would be optimal, but both dealerships are 150-200miles away. We live in a spot with only one MC dealer close and I can't swing a new MC. Centurion is the other close dealership, but we did g get a great vibe. They were super pushy. Thoughts on the A22 vs Mojo to kind of sway us as to which to test drive first.
Old    Josh Schneider (jps120)      Join Date: Oct 2012       07-21-2014, 4:32 AM Reply   
Just went through this two weeks ago. We decided on the mojo and here is why. A22 does have a better and more consistent wake and the mojodoes have a good wake that does get big but it is more sensitive Side to side and as you add weight over the stock 1800 you will have to increase speex to clean it up. The wake plate is nice because yo can change the shape from a steep wake to a rampier wake. The interior goes to moomba. We choose the moomba becuase my wife did not like the plain interior of the axis and was not a fan of the styling of the a22. The moomba tower was much easier to put up qnd down and looked better in my opinion. Both had similar rough water rides and handle double ups and chop the same. Both handled the same which was very good. I think that was it but if you got any more questions just ask
Old    Boardjunky (hookedonboardin)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-21-2014, 6:02 AM Reply   
How sensitive would you say it is? A huge issue to dial in everytime your with a different amount of people? Or more of a make sure weight is exactly even, Also I spent bunch of time behind an 11 Möbius LSV and it always seemed like the driver side wakeboard wake had a slightly different lip than the passenger side. That noticeable still on Mojo. The interior on the Mojo def looks way better to me than the Mojo, but that's what has us looking at the T22


I am hoping if you run the mojo with the same amount of weight as the Axis Plug n Play it will get just as meaty.

Thanks for the reply Do you surf it at all ?

Last edited by hookedonboardin; 07-21-2014 at 6:06 AM.
Old    Evan Core (ecore)      Join Date: Jul 2014       07-21-2014, 6:05 AM Reply   
I am confused, are you looking at the a22 or the t22? Surfing, I know that the t22 makes a hell of a wave. For wakeboarding you mentioned that you like a steep wake. Well I know that when you engage the wedge on an axis, the wake gets pretty steep.

When it came down to the decision for me between the axis a20, moomba outback v, and tige r20. I felt that a clean surf wave was key since I had never surfed before but wanted to learn. So surf gate pretty much made my decision.
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-21-2014, 6:07 AM Reply   
If you are going to get a new one, take a look at the 2015 T22 and A22. You will get an easier tower and you will notice some interior changes as well. My vote goes with the Axis but I am a little biased. I own one.
Old    Boardjunky (hookedonboardin)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-21-2014, 6:28 AM Reply   
Sorry gents . Was typing from my phone on the train. Meant the interior of the Mojo looks way better than the A22, but that's what has us leaning and keeping the T22 in the hunt. It's interior is more of a traditional style setup with carpeted walls on the seat bases.


EVAN
We are looking at Axis T22 vs Mojo. The A22 styling just isn't for us.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-21-2014, 6:33 AM Reply   
T22 hands down. Wake and waves are phenomenal. You don't have that hideous manual surf device. Automatic surf gates. Great styling. Great everything.
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-21-2014, 7:32 AM Reply   
I know the t22 looks better but why not a24? The wakeboard wake is almost G size and the surf wave looks sick. Also the thing can fit 17.
Old    Nick (drive139)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-21-2014, 9:10 AM Reply   
Once you get the Mojo wake dialed in I think you will find that its more comparable to your SANTE. The wake is pretty steep and has a lot of pop. The surf wake on it gets massive and has a ton of push. My vote would be for the Mojo.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       07-21-2014, 9:50 AM Reply   
If you're going to be comparing 2015's then you need to wait until Moomba's big reveal on August 1st. It's already confirmed that Moomba will have the 6.2L 400 HP Ford Raptor engine STANDARD for 2015 so anything in the Axis lineup will have to have the 450 just to compete from a power standpoint since they still have the 5.7L standard. Should really shake things up since I've heard the new Moomba is absolutely sick and with a wake and interior that is top notch.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-21-2014, 1:55 PM Reply   
2015 MB's will have the 6.2 also and the new MB Switch Surf System….game on
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-21-2014, 2:36 PM Reply   
Nick is totally on point about the Mojo wake. We ride one regularly and the wake is fun, and you don't need much weight to produce a big poppy wake. It's pretty steep and is on the narrow side. Surf wave is excellent.

I think those are 2 very comparable boats but the 2015's will see some big changes. I would wait to see the new Mojo.
Old    Boardjunky (hookedonboardin)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-21-2014, 3:01 PM Reply   
Thanks so far for the info.

We are looking 2014. I have been reading about all the huge changes coming for 2015. What makes me hesitant is the price increase for these changes. We are not talking simple upgrades. Also the dealerships I am going to be working with for both the T22 and Mojo have a ton of 14's left which I am hoping works in our favor with the changes for 15
Old    Josh Schneider (jps120)      Join Date: Oct 2012       07-21-2014, 5:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hookedonboardin View Post
How sensitive would you say it is? A huge issue to dial in everytime your with a different amount of people? Or more of a make sure weight is exactly even, Also I spent bunch of time behind an 11 Möbius LSV and it always seemed like the driver side wakeboard wake had a slightly different lip than the passenger side. That noticeable still on Mojo. The interior on the Mojo def looks way better to me than the Mojo, but that's what has us looking at the T22


I am hoping if you run the mojo with the same amount of weight as the Axis Plug n Play it will get just as meaty.

Thanks for the reply Do you surf it at all ?
if you ride with a different amount of people each time I could see you spending a few minutes moving people around. I have only been out once on the boat and I loaded up all the ballast and started to ride. had to move two people around then drain a little bit of the starboard ballast till it cleaned up. as far as size the Moomba comes with 1800lbs and that is what we tested with and have now. the a22 had stock ballast full, 800lbs in the rear, 800 in the front, and the wedge down and with that setup the axis was bigger but that was 2500lbs with the wedge. We do surf a little and the waves were similar but all we looked at was the regular wave not the goofy wave. The interior of the t22 is similar to the a22 except for the seat bases behind the driver (i think just drivers side is different) and the walk through with that said I still think the mojo is better than the t22 as far as interior. With all that said it goes back to what everyone else says on this forum test drive both if you can and go look at them a couple of different times because you will always notice and compare different things.
Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-21-2014, 6:13 PM Reply   
This isn't even close. Def go axis, far superior boat in performance. BY FAR! If u demo both no way you don't buy the axis.
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-21-2014, 6:49 PM Reply   
A lot of pics of the T22 surf wake here.

http://www.axiswakeboardboats.com/viewtopic.php?t=2479
Old    Matt K (matt75)      Join Date: Nov 2010       07-21-2014, 7:28 PM Reply   
I think the Mojo may have an edge on interior comforts, but I'd go for the Axis on anything behind the boat (surf or wakeboard wake). I would check out both dealers as well. You can buy the best boat on the planet, but if your dealer is terrible you'll be miserable. I'd say take a couple of days off and ride both. It's an investment and after you purchase you don't want to ask yourself 'what if'??? Yes- I've owned an Axis for 3 years and happy with decision.
Old    Tristan Dietrich (loudelectronics)      Join Date: Sep 2013       07-22-2014, 7:11 AM Reply   
I would like to see the mojo wake.

If it were me, I would not be proud of the surf wakes posted up on the Axis site. People really need to try a surf specific boat wake. The typical Malibu and Axis wakes are so relaxed and have no lip. The wake just rolls over and has no transition. On a boat that actually makes a good surf wake you will have that nice transition from mellow at the bottom to steeper with a lip at the top.

I can not comment on the mojo wake as I have not seen it yet. But please go demo a few other brands and make up your mind that way. You will be pleasantly surprised at what you find. May even want to look at some used market stuff if price is an issue. I know this sounds pompous and errogant and I am not that way, but there are so many good options out there and even though the Axis/Bu's are beautiful boats there surf wakes are severely lacking. The surf gate just makes people feel better about there purchase.
Attached Images
     
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-22-2014, 8:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudelectronics View Post
I would like to see the mojo wake.

If it were me, I would not be proud of the surf wakes posted up on the Axis site. People really need to try a surf specific boat wake. The typical Malibu and Axis wakes are so relaxed and have no lip. The wake just rolls over and has no transition. On a boat that actually makes a good surf wake you will have that nice transition from mellow at the bottom to steeper with a lip at the top.

I can not comment on the mojo wake as I have not seen it yet. But please go demo a few other brands and make up your mind that way. You will be pleasantly surprised at what you find. May even want to look at some used market stuff if price is an issue. I know this sounds pompous and errogant and I am not that way, but there are so many good options out there and even though the Axis/Bu's are beautiful boats there surf wakes are severely lacking. The surf gate just makes people feel better about there purchase.
I think you are missing the point of his original question. His needs:

1. Bigger boat to entertain people
2. Pimpin wakeboard wake
3. Ability to have a good surf wake on each side (3 riders are regular, 3 riders are goofy)

This is where the surf systems come in handy. The ability to change sides without waiting for ballast bags to fill is a time saver.

If he wanted a killer surfing boat, I am sure most of the people on this site would have told him to check out other brands such as Tige, Centurion, Supreme, and some others.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-22-2014, 9:13 AM Reply   
Here is the Mojo Surf Wave and some Wake Pics. This is with basically stock ballast for wakeboarding and only an 1100 sack in the rear and no people in the boat for the surf wave, no extra sacks. And for the people saying the wake is soooo much better on the Axis, I'd say take a set on a properly setup Mojo. We have some high level riders we ride with and they love the Mojo wake and have no trouble doing crow mobes on it. Its more than enough for %90 of the riders out there.
Attached Images
    
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-22-2014, 9:22 AM Reply   
And I'm pretty sure someone was just looking for the opportunity/excuse to post pics of their Tige wave, notice every picture is taken to make the wave look as big as possible.
Old    Boardjunky (hookedonboardin)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-22-2014, 9:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezul View Post
I think you are missing the point of his original question. His needs:

1. Bigger boat to entertain people
2. Pimpin wakeboard wake
3. Ability to have a good surf wake on each side (3 riders are regular, 3 riders are goofy)

This is where the surf systems come in handy. The ability to change sides without waiting for ballast bags to fill is a time saver.

If he wanted a killer surfing boat, I am sure most of the people on this site would have told him to check out other brands such as Tige, Centurion, Supreme, and some others.
Tim is pretty much right in the money. I know there are way better surfboats out there but my main focus is still the wakeboard wake.

I know I can go used but the idea of a surf system I can touch on a new boat is very appealing. If it wasn't for a chance at flow or surfgate I would be going Nautique 220 or Malibu 23 LSV all the way.


LW that Mojo wakeboard wake looks legit. Looks really nice and poppy
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-22-2014, 9:53 AM Reply   
Subscribed

This is a great topic I can't believe hasn't been compared yet here in detail.

I am test driving a Mojo today, a T22 tomorrow and a MB B52 21 WB on Thursday
. We are all goofy riders so I will do my best to get up some pics and reviews
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-22-2014, 10:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Subscribed

This is a great topic I can't believe hasn't been compared yet here in detail.

I am test driving a Mojo today, a T22 tomorrow and a MB B52 21 WB on Thursday
. We are all goofy riders so I will do my best to get up some pics and reviews
It sounds like you have some post-test driving homework (review) for the next three days here with your opinion on each. Make sure you take note on ballast setups and configurations.
Old    Steven (scuba_steve)      Join Date: Oct 2013       07-22-2014, 10:34 AM Reply   
I have no experiance in the Mojo but I do have a bit with the Axis T22. They offer A LOT of storage for a 22ft boat and besides the glovebox, they dont feel that cheap on the water. The wakeboard wake is similar to the A22/A24 but toned down a bit. If you weight it down you can still get some great transition and kick from it but I would give it to the A22/A24 for the better wake.

Now, the surf wave on the other hand is a monster. These boats can handle A TON of weight and they only get better with more. Having been in the boat with a number of pro wakesurfers I've heard nothing but great things on this wave especially once it was dialed in. And these are comments from riders who ride behind a number of different boats throughout the contest season.

As for the claim of no lip/transition in the T22..

Old    Boardjunky (hookedonboardin)      Join Date: Oct 2006       07-23-2014, 11:13 AM Reply   
Perfect Xstarrider.


So I have been reading some older threads about good price numbers. The consensus is big 3 have more wiggle room.

What do you guys think is good deal MSRP wise off a Moomba? I know options adjust the price quite a bit. Would you say average deal is 10% off good deal 15%? With 2015's rolling out I was thinking 15-20 but the dealership I have been talking to is more around the 8% range with 5 2014's on the lot.
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       07-23-2014, 11:52 AM Reply   
Just saw where Axis is updating interior on '15 A22





May not even be relevant to the discussion but saw the Axis interior mentioned in several posts. I don't think the op can go wrong with either brand they both have a loyal following for a reason.

Last edited by LYNRDSKYNRD; 07-23-2014 at 11:54 AM.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-23-2014, 1:15 PM Reply   
no playpen on the A22. That is new isn't it? Is that an option or something? Seems like if it was standard it would be hard to get enough weight up front to counterbalance the wedge and rear plug/play.
Old    Chris Hernandez (CHern5972)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-23-2014, 1:50 PM Reply   
Mojo loves weight.
I normally run 1100 in the rear lockers.
65% on each bag
Center tank 100%
600 in the bow

normally around 9 people in the boat. The boat loves weight. It is a little finiky on weight distribution and needs a little mopre speed to clean it up. It is a killer wake at 25.5-26 on the speed. KILLER wake.

Surf
65% rearlocker+ 400 on top of that
Center tank
650 bow and 3 ppl up front.

Ill get some pics of each this weekend.
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       07-23-2014, 1:56 PM Reply   
Wow 26 mph!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-23-2014, 9:18 PM Reply   
Here's the T22 surf wave... pretty sick, imho...

rider is 6' tall

Old    Chris Hernandez (CHern5972)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2014, 4:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LYNRDSKYNRD View Post
Wow 26 mph!
last weekend i ran from 24-26. i think it is a little off tho.
Old    Jeremy (JEr)      Join Date: Sep 2010       07-24-2014, 10:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHern5972 View Post
Mojo loves weight.
I normally run 1100 in the rear lockers.
65% on each bag
Center tank 100%
600 in the bow

normally around 9 people in the boat. The boat loves weight. It is a little finiky on weight distribution and needs a little mopre speed to clean it up. It is a killer wake at 25.5-26 on the speed. KILLER wake.

Surf
65% rearlocker+ 400 on top of that
Center tank
650 bow and 3 ppl up front.

Ill get some pics of each this weekend.
That's fast for sure. The above photos are of my mojo and I run a solid wake which everyone that hits it is very fond of. I have 1100's in the rear and they are roughly 55-70 percent full and then I run the factory 450 hard tank full up front. Then I have 200 in lead up front and roughly 100 in the sub box under the bow filler cushion we also have between 3-6 people in the boat. The speed we run it 22.5 and 70' and wake is solid. Never a complaint and we have some people who have been behind some of the best wakeboard boats out there. Anyways just wanted to say what we ran it at and we don't need to go above 23.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-24-2014, 11:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
no playpen on the A22. That is new isn't it? Is that an option or something? Seems like if it was standard it would be hard to get enough weight up front to counterbalance the wedge and rear plug/play.
Thats a good question. i know the A20 and A22 are playpen and the A24 is set up with a walk through just like those pictures, maybe this is just a picture of an A24???

To the OP. This is a big decision but a fun one for sure. If you can, I would go demo both boats, think about it for a little bit, then go demo both boats again. I realize this is difficult due to distance but it would be a great way to compare the two. Bring 3 sacks and pump. put them in the lockers and bow in both boats, do not run them with stock ballast. In 2010 I demo'd the A22 with stock ballast, wedge, 5 dudes, and 3/4 fuel… the wake was disappointing (like most flat style hulls), but with a good amount of the weight, the wake is amazing. If i would have based my decision on that demo wake, I would have been uniformed and would not be in my Axis today.
Old    Rance Taylor (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       07-25-2014, 2:36 AM Reply   
Johnny

The new 15 A22 is a walk thru too. But you already knew that I'm sure.
Old    Chris Hernandez (CHern5972)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-25-2014, 2:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEr View Post
That's fast for sure. The above photos are of my mojo and I run a solid wake which everyone that hits it is very fond of. I have 1100's in the rear and they are roughly 55-70 percent full and then I run the factory 450 hard tank full up front. Then I have 200 in lead up front and roughly 100 in the sub box under the bow filler cushion we also have between 3-6 people in the boat. The speed we run it 22.5 and 70' and wake is solid. Never a complaint and we have some people who have been behind some of the best wakeboard boats out there. Anyways just wanted to say what we ran it at and we don't need to go above 23.

I need to gps my speed or have a chase boat pace me. Mine seems to be off then. Im still playing with the surf tho. Great wake for sure and damn competitive with some of the best.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-25-2014, 3:36 AM Reply   
So the test drive days were absolutely awful 35mph winds every single day so didn't get to ride the T22 or the B52.

I did however manage to ride and spend some time in the Mojo. I didn't take any wake pics as I didn't really think it would be fair to post up some wake shots in some really crappy water. Even tho the wind was ripping we were able to find a nice spot to give it a go. So here is my take


Wakeboard setup
All stock with 600 in the walkway up front directly between windshield . 75ft at 24mph wake plate all the way up. The wake was awesome. Couldn't have been more solid. A completely different Moomba wake than I have ever experienced. It was clean, firm , and had a great shape. I would put it right between my Original XStar and a 2008 to 2013 SANTE 210. The transition was a little shorter but the shape and kick was right there.

The goofy surf wake was little tricky to get going. We started all factory and the 600 on the rear seat. Rolled through the flow settings and couldn't get it clean at all except for 3 (all the way down). Even 3 wasn't exactly clean. Moved the 600 to the surf side bench . Emptied a bit from opposite tank and it cleaned up real real nice. Could still only get it clean with flow fully deployed in 3. In 10-12 ft if water it was great. I have never had this comment before but the surf wake pocket seemed very wide. I could get way right of the wake wand still get great "push". I owned a Centurion Avalanche before my XStar so I have some high level Wakesurf wake experience. However when the depth got less to around 8ft the wake vanished. I mean it was noticeably gone. Never experienced that much of a drastic difference due to depth.

The boat handled the chop nothing like Moombas of the old. This boat had zero rattle, zero flex, was super smooth. It was also really quiet. It felt like a high end boat cutting through the water in 1-2 ft rollers. It had the acme 1235 with the standard motor and I was super impressed with how quick it planed. The torque curve was perfect I run a 1235 on my star and the Mojo had an even better response. The bow has ton of space however the downside to that was it was really long and hard to see over at surf speeds. I was good at 6ft 1. But I could def see my wife having some major issues. Guess that's the draw back to a wide style bow that's almost the size of my current cockpit.

3 gripes
The glove box handle flew off every time we tried to access it, and the swivel racks were downright dangerous. They popped loose at least half dozen times. Luckily my youngest was in the seat because those boards flew right over her head....... otherwise she would be getting some major work done. These two things can be remedied no problem. Fixed racks and liquid nails for the glove box latch. 3rd gripe is with the over the tower bimini. I could barely get the rope up there. So for those who may be vertically challenged it may be a challenge(only with bimini up)

All in all I think this boat is a serious contender. I really loved the wake shape and the feel. Maybe it gets completely different loaded up with 3k but for me coming off my original XStar with 3000lbs riding at 80ft and 24.5 mph the Mojo with factory and 600 lbs in the bow, 75ft and 24mph was not far off. I bet if you upped to 900 in the rear and added the ibs up front it would for sure satisfy me. Not sure the flow system wow'd me as much as I thought it would but we didn't get to really mess around with it as water conditions were deteriorating fast. I will reserve a final judgement on that til I get more time with it.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-25-2014, 3:52 AM Reply   
Oh also it was said by my dealer the A22 is going to a full walk thru. No more chillax walkthrough seating. It will be more like the Malibu styling with the flip up like the T22 and A24 on the side benches. To me this seems like the wrong idea and now you loose the option to hide that huge mushroom sac the A22 loves under those seats. Now you will be forced to have sacs on the floor. To me this makes no sense. You going from that huge mushroom to now only 4-50olnd like the T22 can hold.

Last edited by xstarrider; 07-25-2014 at 3:59 AM.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-25-2014, 4:39 AM Reply   
Swat, have you considered the MB F22 Tomcat? If I recall right, you're a down state Illinois guy, and there's one for sale in Central Illinois....Seems to have a great surf wake. Haven't been on a wakeboard behind it yet.
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       07-25-2014, 5:27 AM Reply   
I feel confident you would not need a bag in the walkway of the new A22, unless you slam the rear with weight in which case previous A22's need additional front weight too.

How was the Mojo wake at 20 and below for beginner's?

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