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Old    Christopher Morin (Swimfartlek)      Join Date: May 2014       05-28-2014, 6:01 PM Reply   
Hey everybody, I've got a 2007 X-star Salt series with the Crusader 6.0L engine, about 220 hours. Recently I've been having throttle issues which was causing a check engine code at RPMs greater than 3000 rpms. Then I thought i heard a funny rhythm even when the engine wasn't throwing the code... Took it to the only shop in the area that services the crusader engine, and the code was "Throttle Actuator Control" where they ended up fixing the Throttle position sensor, not a huge expense. No more engine code!

Then they put it back in the water and the number 5 and 6 cylinders are just dead (explains the funny rhythm). So they swapped the plugs, wires, and coil, and all were just fine which makes them think that it's a injector problem. Their recommendation going forward = tear off the top of the engine to inspect/clean/replace the injectors. Seems like a legit diagnosis to me, with the only problem being that labor at this shop is 119/hour, and their estimate is $655 to just get down to the injectors and test them, without including reassembly cost... ouch!!

My question is twofold...
1) Has anybody worked on this engine before and can comment on the difficultly of this? Given the price... I am looking into either doing it myself or just giving it to an vehicle engine shop with more reasonable labor costs. It seems like its been narrowed down to an engine problem instead of a marine problem.

2) While I have it apart, would it be worth it to inspect the other injectors? Service/chean/check anything else in there? I don't want to add too many extra costs, but damn I don't want the other cylinders to fail in just a few months/year when I could have fixed it now!

I'm pretty new to boating, made the purchase July of last year, and open to suggestions. Thoughts?
Old    Baitkiller (baitkiller)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-28-2014, 6:06 PM Reply   
Anybody do a compression test? Hate to see them chasing parts when you have a dead hole. Do you run in salt? If yes, how old are the risers? Do you run ethanol or real gas? Did they check rail pressures? Do you trust the shop?
Old    Christopher Morin (Swimfartlek)      Join Date: May 2014       05-28-2014, 6:49 PM Reply   
Compression test was done and is good, I don't know the exact numbers on it. The service manager already cut me 3 hours of free labor (he volunteered them after being a little slow to diagnose. I do trust the shop, he keeps me well informed and I have a little mechanical background from hobby work on my mustang, and he's super up front about it. Legendary Marine in Destin, if anybody has any experiences to share about them. Nearest MC dealer is way up in Alabama...

I run in brackish water every time I go out, its the only option down here really. I do a pretty thorough job after each session to include salt away flush.

...I'm a noob. What are risers?

I run real gas, 87 octane as recommended in the Crusader Engine Manual. I am questioning if it was properly winterized last season, specifically fuel treated... a different shop did it for me in a hurry when tempurature down here plummeted suddenly. That may be why they went bad, you can be sure I won't make that mistake again if it is.

I don't know if they checked the fuel rail pressures, but would that be specific to the cylinder or the entire system?
Old    Ian Scarlet (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-29-2014, 1:53 AM Reply   
Fuel pressure will affect all cylinders so may have random cylinder misses not just 2 dead cylinders does seem strange they are the same cylinders on the opposite banks but I would pull the rails and clean all the injectors, not a difficult job - 30min to remove all 8, send to a specialist to get cleaned/flow tested and then maybe a bit longer to stick it all back together. I would also be going through the invoices looking for a fuel cell cartridge to see if that has been changed in the last 100hrs/year and not sure if the star has another filter before the cell in the tank.
Old    Parker Frost (waketowake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-29-2014, 8:08 AM Reply   
Christopher, legendary marine left a bad taste in my mouth. I actually have the exact same boat as you and use to take it there.

sometimes it would come back running brand new.
Other Times…..

They told me my overheat problem was my manifolds… 5 Gs out the window. towed it an hour and a half home for the engine to immediately over heat. Turns out it was a $700 water pump. had to tow it an hour and a half back.

Asked them to fix my speed, they said they fixed it, and had a charge for water test on my bill. Got it home and it didn't work. Called and asked for my money back, they gave me a credit. he apologized and said all we could do was run an air gun past it. I asked about the water test charge, they didn't have an answer for that one.

However I have had great work done by them in a timely manner, they recently got a new mechanic that has a lot of experience with inboards. Since then I have taken my money to a local mechanic in Pensacola. Look up Dave at davlor marine or Mark Hyman. Dave is a super nice guy and has a lot of experience with crusaders. Mark is super upfront with you and really doesn't have much time, but does awesome work. Diagnosed and fixed my boat in an hour.

I work at a dealer ship, and I understand that you can't predict everything, but me spending 5 grand when it could have been a $700 fix really pissed me off.

I hope this helped you. I can't help you with the injector problem, but if you can get to them napa cleans them for pretty cheap. And from what I've heard crusaders suck to work on, unless you have experience with them. A lot of shops are scared to work on them. Good luck with your problem. Let me know if you wanna ride sometime!
Old    Christopher Morin (Swimfartlek)      Join Date: May 2014       05-30-2014, 11:04 AM Reply   
Parker, that sucks they misdiagnosed your problem, I can't imagine that was a fun experience... And absolutely I will ride with you! Where do you normally run?

They actually got back to me and said the 655 was to put back together as well. So hopefully nothing goes wrong like broken or seized bolts and it will be an easy fix. I think I'll have them pull the rest of the injectors as well just for good measure, as long as we are in there.

I'll give an update once they check it out!
Old    Parker Frost (waketowake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-31-2014, 5:53 PM Reply   
Chris,
we usually run in bayou texar or escambia river, just PM me and ill shoot you my info.
Old    Christopher Morin (Swimfartlek)      Join Date: May 2014       06-09-2014, 12:41 PM Reply   
Alright. So pulling the injectors, testing and cleaning them worked out just great and just like that, boat runs fantastic again. New spark plugs helped too.

But after they put it all back together and ran it, the engine threw a knock sensor code... Which means a sensor is bad. And the damn sensors are located right underneath everything that was just removed and put back. Ahhhh!!!

It gets worse... the engine was throwing the bad knock sensor code before pulling the intake. The code disappeared when the throttle position sensor was replaced, which means it was probably just intermittent... They forgot to go in and check the knock sensor because they thought the code had disappeared. Grrr.

I'm pretty sure I could make them go back in for free under the guise of "you should've known". But I'm not going to do that, I think its an honest mistake and being a dick to the only Crusader serive department in the area is probably not in my best interest. Plus, even though its been frustrating, they have been extremely good about communicating and asking intentions in a timely manner. In addition to volunteering 3+ hours of free labor and giving a 15% discount on labor and parts.

I doing it myself this time, the bill is already high enough. Fingers crossed that I finish by the weekend...

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