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Old    Jason C (TundraA22)      Join Date: Jan 2014       05-30-2014, 12:23 PM Reply   
So I have been posting in this thread

http://www.axiswakeboardboats.com/vi...hp?f=14&t=2460

And I have asked the question in there but maybe someone here knows... How big of a wave over the bow would it take to sink a boat? It seams to me like it would have to be a crazy amount of water.... Thoughts??

Either way it sucks for this guy.. but maybe it can be a learning tool

Last edited by TundraA22; 05-30-2014 at 12:25 PM. Reason: spelling
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       05-30-2014, 12:36 PM Reply   
Back in the day when we used to weight the crap out of direct drives I've buried the nose plenty of times swamping the whole boat. Never sank one. I would imagine it would take a lot, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68AOltMu768

Also and please dear lord people don't take this as a bashing statement. I am not even 100% sure it is accurate but from some information I have recieved over the years I have always been under the impression that Malibu and Axis use little to no closed cell faom in their boats. (Maybe somebody can confirm, again not a bashing statement). If this is true, I would imagine a Malibu product will sink faster than most boats WITH closed cell foam. Closed cell foam will not retain water and help keep a boat afloat in the event that something like this happens. Typically it will only keep it afloat for so long. Mastercraft really preaches on all their closed cell foam in their boats and their stringer system. Nautique is very similar as well. Again I could be wrong about Malibu not using foam and to most people, they don't care, but in this situation I bet the owner would have wished they had it.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-30-2014, 12:41 PM Reply   
Friends don't let friends wakesurf
Old    Jason C (TundraA22)      Join Date: Jan 2014       05-30-2014, 12:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakedaveup View Post
Back in the day when we used to weight the crap out of direct drives I've buried the nose plenty of times swamping the whole boat. Never sank one. I would imagine it would take a lot, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68AOltMu768

Also and please dear lord people don't take this as a bashing statement. I am not even 100% sure it is accurate but from some information I have recieved over the years I have always been under the impression that Malibu and Axis use little to no closed cell faom in their boats. (Maybe somebody can confirm, again not a bashing statement). If this is true, I would imagine a Malibu product will sink faster than most boats WITH closed cell foam. Closed cell foam will not retain water and help keep a boat afloat in the event that something like this happens. Typically it will only keep it afloat for so long. Mastercraft really preaches on all their closed cell foam in their boats and their stringer system. Nautique is very similar as well. Again I could be wrong about Malibu not using foam and to most people, they don't care, but in this situation I bet the owner would have wished they had it.
Holy Crap.... That is what I mean.... I feel like it would take an amazing amount of water to sink a boat... Foam or no foam
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       05-30-2014, 12:47 PM Reply   
Seriously I agree, isn't that video crazy haha.
Old    Josh Schneider (jps120)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-30-2014, 1:09 PM Reply   
I thought these boats were designed to float even it they got swamped. I know most things in the boat would be ruined but you wouldn t be fishing your boat off the bottom either.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       05-30-2014, 1:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakedaveup View Post
Back in the day when we used to weight the crap out of direct drives I've buried the nose plenty of times swamping the whole boat. Never sank one. I would imagine it would take a lot, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68AOltMu768

Also and please dear lord people don't take this as a bashing statement. I am not even 100% sure it is accurate but from some information I have recieved over the years I have always been under the impression that Malibu and Axis use little to no closed cell faom in their boats. (Maybe somebody can confirm, again not a bashing statement). If this is true, I would imagine a Malibu product will sink faster than most boats WITH closed cell foam. Closed cell foam will not retain water and help keep a boat afloat in the event that something like this happens. Typically it will only keep it afloat for so long. Mastercraft really preaches on all their closed cell foam in their boats and their stringer system. Nautique is very similar as well. Again I could be wrong about Malibu not using foam and to most people, they don't care, but in this situation I bet the owner would have wished they had it.
That boat was as good as an anchor without good driving. He knew to slam the boat into reverse and saved it. Without that reverse move that boat was going under. Freeze the video at 00:36. The entire bow is under water and actively flooding the boat. Then the boat moves backwards and it reverses the rush of water and he gets out of it. Then, as :45 he starts to give little bursts of throttle. Those bursts help him get the bow up and move water from the bow to stern. That was an EXTREMELY close call. It has nothing to do with foam.

There is no magic number, it's all about weight distribution and keeping every edge of the boat above water. One corner under water will pull the entire boat down in short time.

Sorry Tunrda, but an experienced driver could have saved your boat. Oh well, I hope your insurance company pays out!

Last edited by boardjnky4; 05-30-2014 at 1:44 PM.
Old     (Jed)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-30-2014, 2:11 PM Reply   
For most boats, its about water displacement. Foam filled voids will probably keep even a swamped boat from sinking. With out the foam, you've got to have all edges of the boat above water, and less water in the boat than the boat displaces.
Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       05-30-2014, 2:59 PM Reply   
That boat in the video is closed bow. I'm pretty sure that plus the closed windshield would redirect some of that water. But still, that's a hell of a lot of water.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       05-30-2014, 3:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed View Post
For most boats, its about water displacement. Foam filled voids will probably keep even a swamped boat from sinking. With out the foam, you've got to have all edges of the boat above water, and less water in the boat than the boat displaces.
I completely agree, just seems to make sense.

The video posted was from back in the day, it's been around awhile. The driver definitely saved it by backing out and not throttling into the wave. When I had my 06 MB B52 we put a ton of weight in the nose just playing around and I buried the nose to the point I couldn't see the bow anymore. Water was to the front of the windshield and the back end "felt" like it was sticking straight in the air. Worst feeling ever, but a little reverse and no issues except when the boat leveled out, all that bow water came gushing through the cockpit. Not fun haha. That was honestly the last time I buried a bow.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-30-2014, 4:16 PM Reply   
I've posted this pic before and have gotten bashed a bit, but it would take a massive wake to sink that boat. I had an a hole that had the whole bay to just me and him. The 50 ft carver decided to plane off just before he passed me going RIGHT in front of me. We had just gotten done riding, motor off. There was nothing I could do. It swamped us pretty good. But I never felt like we were going to sink. From that day on, when we run that heavy the motor never shuts off in between sets.
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Old    Steven Pederson (sppeders)      Join Date: Jul 2011       05-30-2014, 6:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by you_da_man View Post
That boat in the video is closed bow. I'm pretty sure that plus the closed windshield would redirect some of that water. But still, that's a hell of a lot of water.
The 197 is an open bow. Also looks like he accidentally tossed it in reverse entering the turn causing the bow to dive... Oooops..
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-30-2014, 7:24 PM Reply   
It's simple physics. If the boat + contents on average less dense than water then no amount of water will sink that boat. Humans, water ballast, foam, coolers, tanks full of fuel are all neutrally or positively buoyant. Engines, batteries, fiberglass, aluminum (towers, racks, trim), subwoofers, non-water ballast (lead, steel, sand concrete, sand, etc) are all negatively buoyant. Enough of the neutral/positive stuff that your boat and contents consist of and the boat is essentially "unsinkable". Too much of the negatively buoyant stuff and it will sink like a rock if swamped bad enough.

A lot of that depends on the design and manufacturing. If there's a lot of foam and sealed off compartments it might be enough to offset the engine and the tower and the subwoofers, etc. Even if the original boat is positively buoyant a lot of people throw that safety margin out the window with huge battery banks and lead ballast. A boat that gets swamped but doesn't sink and is promptly removed from the water is significantly cheaper to repair than one that sinks to the bottom and sits for a while before being recovered (not to mention the cost of recovery).
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-30-2014, 7:30 PM Reply   
Btw I've been boating by myself since 13 so me and my friends made lots of mistakes. I've never done it to an inboard but I've personally launched or participated in the launching of more than my fair share of boats with the plugs out. Some sat for hours until the boat "sank" until it floated on it's own. None of them sank to the bottom. All were outboards with fiberglass or aluminum interiors so no harm done. Jump in, insert plug, and start bailing. Once enough is bailed, take it out, get her on plane and pull the plug to let the remainder of the water out. These boats fortunately all were positively buoyant.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-30-2014, 8:51 PM Reply   
Isn't that the same guy who's buddy's supra was dragging the board racks in the water? The ones with the hull voids?
Old    David (99Bison)      Join Date: Sep 2012       05-30-2014, 9:00 PM Reply   
Last week my 19 ft fishing deep-v alum boat fell off its lift last week and drifted across the lake to the opposite shore. Found and was towed by fishermen back across looking for someone who knew where it belonged. Some neighbor tied it to a dock for a while, until they put back on the lift...

All of this with the plug out.

Guessing, but likely this was at least an hour, maybe 2 with no plug and floating/sitting.

By the time I was notified and drove to check it out all I found was wet floor up to console. No wet side walls even really.
Old    Russ Weber (Boonejeepin)      Join Date: Oct 2012       05-30-2014, 11:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Isn't that the same guy who's buddy's supra was dragging the board racks in the water? The ones with the hull voids?

I think you are right.
Old     (Jwredmon101)      Join Date: May 2014       05-31-2014, 9:45 AM Reply   
Guess I see how axis is saving their money. Price point!!!!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-31-2014, 12:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
Isn't that the same guy who's buddy's supra was dragging the board racks in the water? The ones with the hull voids?
I guess supra isnt the only one that has problems with racks hitting the water. I am also starting to think potatoshack and his buddies shoukd stay off the waterways and stick to dry land. Boating just doesnt get along well with them.

Last edited by polarbill; 05-31-2014 at 12:07 PM.
Old    Jason C (TundraA22)      Join Date: Jan 2014       06-01-2014, 7:46 AM Reply   
Yea just to clear it up... This was not my boat or anyone I know...He posted it and I have been commenting because I just cant see how a little wave over the bow would cause that... I would think it takes a tremendous amount of water for that to happen.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-01-2014, 8:55 AM Reply   
I dunked the bow of my calabria cal air when i had about 8 people in it. That was scary as crap. The boat had probably 6 inches to a foot of water in it. That said i never felt like it was about to sink to the bottom.

I wonder if this axis had a bunch of lead ballast or a bunch of batteries and stereo equipment?
Old    John Arnold (JohnAr)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-01-2014, 10:10 AM Reply   
Back before I got reversible pumps, I had the front ballast drain pump hose come off, UNDER a full 1150lb ballast bag while filling. I was actually surfing and my crew was driving, didn't notice until the boat started going realllly slow... The wave was mackin' though! We couldn't lift the ballast bag to fix the hose, and the bilge pump impeller got stuck on some debris, so we were full up to the engine accessories and had to let the whole ballast bag drain into the bilge while limping back to the dock. low in the water... Had to replace a starter but otherwise the other electronics were above waterline. Sucked...
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-01-2014, 11:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
Friends don't let friends wakesurf
Old    Mason Obray (MCObray)      Join Date: Mar 2013       06-01-2014, 10:58 PM Reply   
This much water.Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1401685504.813294.jpg
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Old    Steven Pederson (sppeders)      Join Date: Jul 2011       06-02-2014, 6:44 AM Reply   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkpNKeMpg6M

Here is a video of a fishing boat holed up to demonstrate how well it does with flotation. Hard to believe dunking a nose of an Axis would sink it.
Old     (cheesesteak)      Join Date: Aug 2013       06-02-2014, 7:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sppeders View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkpNKeMpg6M

Here is a video of a fishing boat holed up to demonstrate how well it does with flotation. Hard to believe dunking a nose of an Axis would sink it.
USCG flotation requirements for new boats apply only to boats less than 20' in length. That Lund is required by law to "float" when swamped for at least 18 hours.
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       06-02-2014, 1:40 PM Reply   
a set of wetsounds just popped up on ebay!
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       06-02-2014, 1:52 PM Reply   
Does anyone notice this is the same guy who sunk his Axis is the same guy who was posting about his friend's Supra that allegedly had 3 foot voids in the hull and caviated so bad it was dragging it's board racks in the water?

"Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack) Join Date: Aug 2013 02-06-2014, 1:39 PM Reply Quick Reply
Well I can tell you they don't stand behind their product. My buddy bought a 2013 supra 22v launch I think. $80k range on close out. Found out the hull had 3 foot voids on each side of it. Supra now won't even return his phone calls or respond to his emails. The dealer basically told him today that he doesn't want to have any thing to do with it and needs to take it up with supra directly."

"Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack) Join Date: Aug 2013 03-07-2014, 3:22 PM Reply Quick Reply
Not exactly sure what's wrong with the hull they called it voids. But when you turn the boat dives to the side you're turning where the board racks Drag in the water and then the prop loses propulsion or some people call it cavitation."

"PotatoShack
Post subject: Re: Anyone ever sunk there boat?PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:38 pm

I think there were 4 adults in the front. No ballast filled at all. The more I think about it and read what y'all are saying it sounds like the driver throttled at the wrong time and then the wrong time again. My 19 yr old daughter said when the wave came over the bow she ran back and slammed the throttle down. That sounds like a mistake as well."

Sounds like someone lost their college fund to buy daddy a new boat after sinking his.

This guy has bad luck with boats

Also when I read this, the first thing I thought of was,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-nfzcUiPk

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