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Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-28-2014, 3:36 PM Reply   
I bought a 2004 Sanger V230 two weeks ago. I just finished changing oil, impellor, fuel filter, etc and ready for some upgrades. First on the list is to move the two batteries from the back lockers to observers compartment. Then plumb in 1100 sacs for wakesurfing. Does anybody have any advice or pictures that I could look at? I would mainly like to see how people routes their hoses and connections in this boat. Also, where is a good place to get longer battery cables? I tried searching with little luck. Thanks
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Old     (cheesesteak)      Join Date: Aug 2013       04-28-2014, 7:32 PM Reply   
Ryan -

My 2006 V230 has spots for the battery under the rear seat - one on either side of the V-Drive access cover.

I just added a second battery, Switch and ACR (Blue Sea). I replaced all existing battery cables and ran new cables (new stereo install) - purchased all my cables at genuinedealz.com
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-29-2014, 9:11 AM Reply   
I think you have the second generation of v230. Mine does not have enough height in the compartment next to the v-drive for batteries. I wish it did! Thanks for the website though. The prices look pretty good. Just not sure if I want to put the batteries under the observers compartment and sub under the dash. Will the sub sound better under the dash than inside the compartment? Also, the previous owner has 4 in boat speaker, 4 tower speakers and sub all running of one JL M700/5 amp. Is this okay?
Old    Derek (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-29-2014, 10:02 AM Reply   
Ryan, if your V230 doesn't have the pockets for the batteries, it might be a good idea to cut the fiberglass (exact surface area of bottom of battery) and set them in there anyway. This is a great space for them, and then they wont take up any room anywhere else.

The sub will fit under the dash and sound great. I have an Alpine 10" up under my dash and its a V215. The sub fires forward and rocks the boat - it doesn't matter were on the boat you put it IMO. I also have 3 amps up under the dash. I didn't want to sacrifice storage in the passenger side compartment.

The one amp running all those speakers may be OK (not sure of the speakers).
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-29-2014, 10:39 AM Reply   
I think I would have to cut the fiberglass and the floor underneath to fit the batteries. Your right though, that would be the best location. It may be worth trying to make it work.

I have one JL 10" in the JL marine enclosure, four 6.5" JL marine in boats and four 7.7 JL tower speakers all on a M700/5 JL amp. Just seems like a lot for that amp. Might have to add another amp.

I was hoping somebody would have a thread or pictures of adding rear ballast to a V230. I just like to research my options as much as possible before I start.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-29-2014, 12:52 PM Reply   
That is a lot for that amp. You basically have 8 speakers and a sub sharing 700 watts. That's no bueno.
Definitely get a second amp just for the tower speakers.

The cutting of the floor seems like a good idea. If you do have to run a long run to relocate the batteries though, find a place that has welding supplies and pick up the more flexible 0 gauge welding cable. It works great and is easier to route than regular battery cable. The cost is a little better as well.
Otherwise go to a car audio shop, you can pick up some 0 gauge car audio cable and use that, they have spools of it, but it is more spendy.
Old    Derek (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       04-29-2014, 1:53 PM Reply   
Yeah, I would add an amp. In fact, I would add two to separate them into 3 "zones": in boat speakers, tower and sub. If you get an WS 420, you can control them all independently which is really nice.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-29-2014, 2:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by camassanger View Post
Yeah, I would add an amp. In fact, I would add two to separate them into 3 "zones": in boat speakers, tower and sub. If you get an WS 420, you can control them all independently which is really nice.
He has a 5 channel already, so he already the sub separate. All he needs is the amp, and yes, definitely recommend a WS420SQ/BT to control all the zones. I posted on another guys thread here http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showt...62#post1874562 on how to set it up without an EQ, but the EQ is defintiely recommended for the best experience and least headache.
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-29-2014, 2:35 PM Reply   
I just called JL and they told me that it is fine to run this amp with all these speakers. They also said this is how the X-Stars were set up. However, I would get more power with another amp but it would drain the batteries faster. I think I'm going to add another amp and maybe speakers for the bow. Also, a wetsounds eq.

I enjoy the stereo stuff but my first priority needs to be rear ballast so I can get surfing.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-30-2014, 12:01 AM Reply   
I definitely agree on getting it setup to surf first. I'm glad you have your priorities in order
Tunes are good and all, but riding is definitely where it's at.

In regards to the amp, it can run everything, but looking at the specs of your amp and just the 4 tower speakers, you would be running them close to what they want to run, splitting it off further to another 4 in boats is underpowering them and not running them at their potential.

Let's take a look at your amp first:

Main Channels @ 4 Ω 75 W RMS x 4
Main Channels @ 2 Ω 100 W RMS x 4
Main Channels - Bridged @ 4Ω 200 W RMS x 2
Subwoofer Channel @ 4 Ω 180 W RMS x 1
Subwoofer Channel @ 3 Ω 240 W RMS x 1
Subwoofer Channel @ 2 Ω 300 W RMS x 1

and now your tower speakers:

Continuous Power Handling (RMS) 100 W
Peak Music Power 225 W
Recommended RMS Amplifier Power (per Ch.) 40 - 175 W
System Efficiency 91.0 dB @ 1 W / 1 m
System Nominal Impedance 4 Ω
System Frequency Response 45 Hz - 25 KHz 3 dB

Having 1 speaker per channel, you are getting 75W RMS to each speaker
This is enough to power them, as they call for 40-175. Typically you will want to run at their continuous RMS of 100W. You are just short of this, but are in the recommended range for them to work. As a rule of thumb, you want the amp to be more powerful than the speakers and turn the amp down some so it is not trying to work so hard.

Now let's add in your 4 in boat speakers. Let's say you wired your speakers in parallel to double the amount of speakers and drop your impedance to 2 ohms. With this you would have 1 pair of speakers wired to each channel.
Your amp would then deliver 100W RMS, or 50W RMS to each speaker. It is still within the recommended range, but half of what you should be aiming for.

I don't know which JL 6.5" speakers you have for the in boat speakers, but they would also be receiving 50W RMS each.

Now as JL said, yes it can run them. Is it optimal or the best setup you can run everything on? No. It will work and get you by, but you are not utilizing your speakers as they should be. As it sits you are running everything at half power and can get a lot more out of your system then it is giving you now.

Leaving this amp for your in boat speakers and getting say a M400/4 (the same amp you have now without the sub channel) if you wanted to stick to a strictly JL setup, to power the tower speakers would be recommended. If you wanted to switch to another brand of amp, I would get something that was equivalent in power or maybe even something a little more beefy putting out 100-150W RMS per channel would be the best choice to maximize your current speaker setup.
Old     (cheesesteak)      Join Date: Aug 2013       04-30-2014, 7:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I bought a 2004 Sanger V230 two weeks ago. I just finished changing oil, impellor, fuel filter, etc and ready for some upgrades. First on the list is to move the two batteries from the back lockers to observers compartment. Then plumb in 1100 sacs for wakesurfing. Does anybody have any advice or pictures that I could look at? I would mainly like to see how people routes their hoses and connections in this boat. Also, where is a good place to get longer battery cables? I tried searching with little luck. Thanks
Ryan - I swapped my factory hard tank for an #1100 fat sac - here are some pics - you can see the factory location of the pumps in the pics:

http://www.sangernation.com/index.ph...iewthread/866/

My batteries - under the rear seat - do not extend below the floor. The entire seat base system sits on the floor - the batteries are contained in it I can get you a pic if you'd like.
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-30-2014, 8:56 AM Reply   
Surf Addict
Thank you for the responses. I think I'm going to take your advice and add another JL amp in the future. Might even go for a 6 channel to get speakers in the bow. It currently has a CDA-105 Alpine deck which is not working well with my Iphone 4s. I think I will get a WS420SQ/BT and possible a head unit before the amp.

Cheesesteak
I read your post on Sangernation and it helped. I tried to sign up for Sangernation but never got an e-mail for login confirmation. Is that site still working?

If you could send me pictures of your batteries I would really appreciate it. On my V230 almost the entire area under the back seat is open to the hull/v-drive. I think yours might be different. I could always build something to make it work though. My ballast system should be here in a few days.

Wavemakers told me to install it a little different than how Sanger does it form the factory. They told me to put the thru-holes by the v-drive not the transom. Also, to connect the drain pumps directly to the bag. I have to admit I am a little nervous about drilling all these holes in the boat.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-30-2014, 10:16 AM Reply   
That sounds like a good plan.

If you are only using your iphone or other mp3 players as your music source, you may want to consider even ditching the deck and just using the WS420 as the head unit.

Otherwise, I picked up this deck for my truck a while back. It's pretty cheap but has all the features most people would want including aux in, usb in, and A2DP bluetooth. It is designed specifically for iPods/iPhones and has pretty good navigation on the deck of the ipod, but you are still able to browse from either device.
It also comes with a bluetooth microphone. I'm not sure how useful that would be in the boat with all the noise, but you never know. I find it handy in my truck which is anything but quiet. Sound quality is really good out of it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       04-30-2014, 11:33 AM Reply   
I was thinking about just ditching the head unit. My only worry is that it would sound better to have my phone hooked up through a digital source. I have a pioneer screen in my truck and it sounds much better when my phone is plugged in than through Bluetooth. I like the simplicity of the WS-420 but not sure if I will notice a drop in music quality. I normal stream with MOG which has the best music quality out of internet sources but its not as good as a CD. Am I over thinking it?
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-30-2014, 12:27 PM Reply   
Internet sources are a little bit less quality than CDs, but it's not really that noticeable. On the boat I normally ride, my friend ditched the deck in favor of just the WS420EQ. We only play music from our phones, either mp3 playlists or Pandora/iHeartRadio. We haven't had any issues with the sound quality and it's just plugged in the 3.5mm jack to the RCAs on the EQ.
Old     (cheesesteak)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-01-2014, 7:54 AM Reply   
Battery beneath back seat -







Sub under dash -





I mounted my amps inside the hull (port side) behind seat back. You can see them in this pic - taken in the storage compartment. All adjustment dials easily accessed this way - and they are out of the way.


Old    Nate (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-01-2014, 8:41 AM Reply   
Great spot on mounting those amps! They don't take up any space that way. I Love Sangers great boats!
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       05-01-2014, 9:30 AM Reply   
Thank you for the pictures. I was looking at my back seat base which is different from yours. My v-drive access is huge and where your batteries holds up my back seat. If I was to cut it out there would not be enough support. I think I'm going to have to put the batteries under the observers compartment.

I never thought of putting the amps where you placed them but I really like that. After taking my system apart last night I realized that I actually have a M600/6 amp not a M700/5. Also, the subwoofer doesn't work.

When you hit the switch for the interior lights do the leds in the cupholder pockets come on? Or just the small lights front and back on the seat bases?
Old     (cheesesteak)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-01-2014, 6:51 PM Reply   
LED's at the cupholders come on with the interior light switch.

When trying to figure out where to put my amps - I removed all the seatbacks from the boat and stared at it for a couple of days - then decided to install where you see them. I glued strips of 3/4" plywood (painted) - around 3"x14" or so and screwed the amps to it (so I didn't have to worry about or compensate for the shape of the hull). Worked out great - I think.
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       07-07-2014, 12:18 PM Reply   
I figured I should update this and of course I have more questions. So far I have completed the ballast install. Everything worked great except the ballast takes to long to drain. I think I can fix this through routing the hoses differently. I ended up putting the batteries in the observer compartment. Thanks for the link to genuiedealz.com, much cheaper than anywhere else for cables.

Next is to install a PPI900.4 and kicker 12cvr under the dash. Got a good deal from a forum member.

I have noticed that the tower sways side to side in large chop or while trailered. Pro Flight told me they could weld a brace to the top corner of the tower. I also thought of using something like the Mastercraft tower braces. Has anyone done anything to strengthen the tower? Any pictures or recommendations?
Old    Derek (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-07-2014, 3:01 PM Reply   
Ryan - the drain line is probably smaller. Mine (V215) had a 1" fill and a 3/4" drain hose. Switch out the drain hose to 1" and you are good to go. I did and it is way faster.
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       07-07-2014, 3:10 PM Reply   
All fill and drain hoses are the same at 1". The small hose that goes from the bottom of the bag to the pump is 3/4". Can't remember but I think the bag fitting may be smaller as well. I asked Wavemakers about this and they told me that there is enough pressure for the pump and it did not matter. I thought that sounded funny...

I will have to get pictures of the set up in a few days.
Old    Derek (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       07-07-2014, 3:29 PM Reply   
I love wakemakers, but theyre wrong about that. When I changed to 1" drain lines I noticed a considerably faster drain rate. I could tell by looking at the water dumping out the back... The 3/4"chokes it off.
Old    Jay Wedsted (jbird)      Join Date: Jun 2011       07-07-2014, 4:26 PM Reply   
So where did you drill your thru-hulls?
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       07-07-2014, 7:02 PM Reply   
The intake thru-hulls are in the bottom of the boat next to v-drive. The drain thru-hulls are next to the front drain from the factory. This is on the right side of the boat about where the dash is. Wavemakers said this was the best spot so that the have any possibility of drain while the boat is at different angles. I also combined the drain and vent with a "Y" and check valve. The hose does go up and down which could be hurting the flow. Going to make it more straight and see if that helps.

Anybody have any ideas about my tower questions?
Old    Scott Macedo (scott)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-07-2014, 8:20 PM Reply   
I just did my fat sacks, it's a simple job order it from Wake Makers and get the Sanger kit. It took me an hour to take out the ballast and install the sack!
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       07-07-2014, 8:33 PM Reply   
Scott Macedo (scott) Join Date: Feb 2010 Today, 7:20 PM Reply Quick Reply
I just did my fat sacks, it's a simple job order it from Wake Makers and get the Sanger kit. It took me an hour to take out the ballast and install the sack!

All you had to do was take the hard tanks out and install bags. My boat did not have factory ballast in the rear lockers, so I had to create the ballast system. How long does it take you to fill and empty your 1100s?
Old    Bwake (bwake)      Join Date: Sep 2009       07-08-2014, 1:55 AM Reply   
Put up some pics of your install.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-08-2014, 8:37 AM Reply   
I did 1100lb bags too. great upgrade. drain hoses are 3/4" too. I'll look into upgrading them as they do take longer to drain than fill.

My tower doesn't sway at all maybe check the feet on your lower sections to make sure they're tight.
Old    Ryan (RyanC)      Join Date: Apr 2014       07-08-2014, 9:11 AM Reply   
Bwake - Boat is all covered up right now. I will try to get some pictures soon.

Nacho - Do you know how long it takes your bags to fill and drain? Your boat is new so it probably has different pumps and configuration but it would give me an idea of what to expect. Your tower is a pro flight chubby with is thicker tubing than my pro flight swoop. I tightened everything from the feet up. The sway is not horrible and I have seen it one other boats with similar towers and heavy speakers. Just looking to improve my set up if possible.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-08-2014, 9:36 AM Reply   
We've been surfing a lot, so we fill 1100 stbd locker, 750 on floor or seat behind driver. 500 in ski locker. I pull the fill from port side and put it on 750 on floor/seat.

Less than 10 min I would say. I get to the cove and start filling. get ppl/things organized. Then I grab a beer, drink about half of it. get some tunes going, jump in for a swim to cool off. by then, its done.

I've got tsunami 1200's for fills BTW.

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