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Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-31-2014, 12:27 PM Reply   
Okay so the family started off with a 97' centurion direct drive, added a tower and all that. A few years ago we sold it. In the mean time, my uncle has a 2001 tige 2100v that we have been using since. He is very wealthy, does't use the boat, and registered it under my name. Basically it's my boat according to DMV. Now heres the thing, he wants to sell it.

We have been looking for a newer boat recently. We have $12k from the old centurion for a down payment. The tige is worth around $20k in pristine condition, however it is far from it. We used the tige in salt water the past 200 hours, the trailer is starting to rust pretty good, the engine needs to be gone through, and needs some seat bases re-done. Basically, the boat has seen better days. I would flush it out every use etc. The boat probably could use $8-$10k worth of work including a galvanized trailer.

Heres the kicker, he was offered $12k as a trade in for a new duffy boat. He wants 18-20k for it, but in the condition it's in, thats not going to happen. Now if I could get it for $12k and put another $8k in to fix it up, would that be a good investment. My family isn't made of money, and a $50k boat is out of the question since we use it in salt. The re-sale value would be nothing.

Here is a list I quickly came up with for the tige:
1. interior: seat bases and some other pieces. The whole interior could be replaced though. new carpet
2. engine: rebuilt; the tranny, engine block, v-drive need some cosmetic attention. new water pump, water dist. manifold, closed cooling!!!!
3. trailer: galvanized, maybe sell or trade in the old one.
4. add ballast or perfect pass
5. Small items: steering cable, throttle assy, fix TAPS, etc.

Basically, If I could buy the boat for $12k or less: keeping it in the family, then pay to re-furbish it, would it be a good choice? OR just find a newer boat for around $30k?
The plan would be to do the work myself, minus the engine rebuild and interior. I have the money to buy the boat for $12k and would need a small loan for the new stuff. The loan does't bother me since I need to build my credit.

For technical questions.
How hard it it to pull the engine and v-drive? I don't want to pay labor that kind of work HAHA. I would send it out to be rebuilt though.
Is there any way to install a top mount Alternator, starter?

The major problem I have with this tige and salt water, is the space between the engine hatch and the rear of the transom. Anytime someone stands on the sun pad wet, the water drips down right on the the engine belt, pulleys, and ALT.

What are your guys opinions? Im open to any criticism also. I want to hear the good, bad, ugly HAHA.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-31-2014, 12:31 PM Reply   
Here are some Photos. BTW, it may not seem in bad condition, but I am kind of a perfectionist when it come to spending money on things. If I get a loan to fix it up, I want it to be perfect haha. But isn't that how all inboard boat owners are?!!



















Heres is back in the day BEFORE the Salt!!!
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-31-2014, 12:35 PM Reply   
Some ideas would be to replace carpet with sea deck, cut off the old board racks and re-powder coat tower, some-how seal the engine compartment from the sun deck (to prevent water from dripping onto engine).
Old    MLO (cbarguy1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       03-31-2014, 12:40 PM Reply   
My advice is the same as I give for cars and motorcycles. Buy the absolute best you can find for the money you can afford to spend. And spend a little more than you were planning.

While it can look attractive to buy something cheaper and "fix it up". It almost always ends up costing you more than if you put all the money up front and bought good to start with. The "fixing up" costs more and takes longer that you think it will and when done, the final result wont' be as good.
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-31-2014, 12:40 PM Reply   
Depends what you are willing to do, what your time allowance is, and if you are attached to the boat. I redid the interior on my boat myself and it cost me about 2500 bucks for the skins alone. Add prob 80 hours to strip and install. None of that included new bases, etc. Engine there is no telling depending on what the issues are. Trailer another 2k or so.

With that said you can get alot of nice boats for 20k
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       03-31-2014, 12:51 PM Reply   
If it was more of a desireable model and you were experienced with pulling boat engines or boat mechanics in general, I would say go for it. The problem is you calculate 8k in repairs (or close to it) now, once you start pulling engines and going through the boat, that will probably go up. As soon as you run into something you can't do on your own, you'll have to pay someone. Between the time, headache, and cash you'll put out, I dont' see it ending well for you. At that point you are into the boat for what it is worth high retail and you would be lucky to even get it. Anyone buying a boat like that would probably ask why the motor was replaced or rebuilt and assuming you were honest with them, nobody is going to pay top retail for a 2001 Tige with a rebuilt engine and salt water use. This isn't a Tige bash either, it's just the truth. This site is filled with boat enthusiast and I can almost assure you the majority of people on here would not buy your boat for 18-20k even if you replaced the majority of what's wrong with it.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-31-2014, 1:20 PM Reply   
Oh no, I appreciate the info.

Now if everything is mechanically sound, no engine work needed except for cosmetic rust issues, would you guys for it? Then I would replace only the interior seats needed. Then refurbish the trailer or just run it rusted out but mechanically sound. etc. Pretty much, just do the bare minimum?

If we just pulled the engine for cosmetic reasons and to re-surface the manifold surface and re-paint, change out all the accessories, that would greatly reduce our fix-up cost. However, closed cooling is a must.

The problem i see with finding a different boat, is our salt water usage. Closed cooling and a galvanized trailer would have to be included with the budget no matter what.

For this boat, what price would you pay for boat that would warrant the plan of fixing it up?

I guess it really just depends on how much money we want to lose overall since re-sale value would be next to nothing from salt use.
The way I see it, with this boat for $20k or so, we will have a Salt ready boat and virtually all new, or spend $20-30k on a different, nicer boat that isn't salt ready.

I kinda figured we would lose our ass on any boat we choose just because of salt, so which decision would lessen our loss?
Old    Josh M (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       03-31-2014, 7:16 PM Reply   
I would avoid that boat like the plague. You would have to pay me to take that thing. Some of those pics made my stomach turn. If someone offered your uncle $12k trade in value, jump at that opportunity to get it off your hands and don't look back. And don't take your next boat in salt water. Even if you were able to completely restore it for $8k (I don't think you could unless you did all the work yourself), no one would pay you $20k for it. So unless you are absolutely sure you want to be stuck with it for the foreseeable future, take the money and run.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-31-2014, 7:57 PM Reply   
Now I think I finally understand why people who go in salt say that everyone should dry off on the swim platform. Holy smokes.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-31-2014, 7:57 PM Reply   
Unfortunately no matter what boat we get, it will be used in salt. Our older centurion was used in salt and you couldn't even tell except for the trailer. The interior was conditioned every use, engine wiped down and coated with WD, flushed with salt away, etc. The tige however was neglected in it's early years. Uncle would run In salt, and flush the engine but wouldn't use wd-40 and put away wet. So the rust started before I used it. I have no problem with salt boats what so ever.

The stadium is too close and too glassy to not use. I've been out on weekdays where I'm the only boat and have had smooth water all day.

I am starting to lean away from the tige though. No point of installing closed cooling on an already corroded engine. Unless I can get it for

We also, Arnt expecting to get our money back at all. It's more so, how much money I want to lose. That is why the tige was appealing. If I can get it for less them 12k and spend the money to fix it up and salt proof it, I would be in the hole less than any other boat after all the necessary add ons are added.

I'm also looking at a 03' san210. That has been in salt but is immaculate. It just needs a trailer.
Next to nothing, I'll have my eyes open for a nicer fresh water boat, then add closed cooling and galvanized trailer.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-31-2014, 8:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Now I think I finally understand why people who go in salt say that everyone should dry off on the swim platform. Holy smokes.
Yep, but if taken care of from day one, all that rust wouldn't have happened. I forgot to mention, the boat was flooded on the trailer during a huge rain storm at my uncles warehouse years ago. It sat for awhile but was professionally detailed and serviced. That's sort of what started all the corrosion. So it was definitely neglected.

I actually forgot about that story so now I'm really second guessing the idea of fixing it up haha
Old    Tommy (Readyaimfire)      Join Date: Jun 2012       03-31-2014, 9:00 PM Reply   
It's a tough decision. I'm assuming you live in Long Beach. Salt water is really the only way to ride on a consistent basis over here. I would go for the clean nautique and install closed cooling and get the galvanized trailer. Even with closed cooling you're still putting salt through the risers, but it at least gives the boat a fighting chance.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-31-2014, 9:25 PM Reply   
Let that boat go and start over with a salt free boat that you can treat properly from the beginning. You also won't have to squabble with your uncle over the true value of his boat and potentially hurt his feelings. That's a win win. I'd just make sure to spit shine that Tige before returning it. My two cents.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-31-2014, 11:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Let that boat go and start over with a salt free boat that you can treat properly from the beginning. You also won't have to squabble with your uncle over the true value of his boat and potentially hurt his feelings. That's a win win. I'd just make sure to spit shine that Tige before returning it. My two cents.
Yea I think thats what I am going to do, detail the boat the best I can and unload a can of WD on the engine then hopefully he or "I" can sell it to some dealer or shop that can do the work for cost and flip it. I just had the idea that if I could buy it for next to nothing, then fixing up would be a good option.
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-31-2014, 11:12 PM Reply   
Man, I love that boat. That was great year for Tige. They where well built, simple and comfortable. They drive great and with some time on the set up, you can get great wake performance. Certainly enough for the vast majority of people. But yours has got everything you're looking for in a vintage Tige. 350 Mag, Limited package, one of the best helms of that era (second only to the 2000 22i IMO). The Phat Tower was the one of the better towers in available in the SoCal area at the time. Great colors. It's a bitchen boat. The salt in the wound...

My buddy has his fathers jet boat. A '72 Cobra Jet that sat for 16years in garage after he (his father) passed away. Once we turned 17, we broke it out and got it together. We ran it in a salt lake for four years before it ate the head gaskets out. We were just stupid kids and had no idea how to "desalt" a motor. We flushed it and washed it in and out every time but, salt is just a time bomb. Long story short, it sat for 10+ years in a garage and last year he pulled it out and got it back together. His face behind the wheel with his son at his side, it's priceless. The family history plus the work involved getting that thing back together, twice, is worth all the BS.

I agree with the general consensus that it needs to go. That's the smart thing to do. Hearts ain't smart.

Last edited by fence_sence; 03-31-2014 at 11:15 PM.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-31-2014, 11:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fence_sence View Post
Man, I love that boat. That was great year for Tige. They where well built, simple and comfortable. They drive great and with some time on the set up, you can get great wake performance. Certainly enough for the vast majority of people. But yours has got everything you're looking for in a vintage Tige. 350 Mag, Limited package, one of the best helms of that era (second only to the 2000 22i IMO). The Phat Tower was the one of the better towers in available in the SoCal area at the time. Great colors. It's a bitchen boat. The salt in the wound...

My buddy has his fathers jet boat. A '72 Cobra Jet that sat for 16years in garage after he (his father) passed away. Once we turned 17, we broke it out and got it together. We ran it in a salt lake for four years before it ate the head gaskets out. We were just stupid kids and had no idea how to "desalt" a motor. We flushed it and washed it in and out every time but, salt is just a time bomb. Long story short, it sat for 10+ years in a garage and last year he pulled it out and got it back together. His face behind the wheel with his son at his side, it's priceless. The family history plus the work involved getting that thing back together, twice, is worth all the BS.

I agree with the general consensus that it needs to go. That's the smart thing to do. Hearts ain't smart.
yea thats a rad story, and sentimental value rules over anything. The tige was a great boat, it never let us down and has always started up and ran great. It's just time before the rust really messes things up, if not taken care of. And that work seams to be out of my range.

IMO, it was definitely one of the best looking boats at the time. Especially when the newer style phat towers came out with the all curved bars. We had that made for our old centurion using the thicker 3" tubing.

Heres the old centurion that was used in salt for half the time we had it. Proving that salt boats can be kept just as clean as a fresh water boat. Minus the trailer, thats totally different.






Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       04-01-2014, 5:35 AM Reply   
Are there any known issues with the motor? Any reason you can't run it for a couple of years as is, and when the manifolds rust out, you can replace them then?
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       04-01-2014, 8:47 AM Reply   
Not yet. I replaced the manifolds last season with cheap GLM ones.
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       04-01-2014, 8:56 AM Reply   
That 3" Phat Budde looks awesome. I would have put one on my boat had they not closed their doors right before I bought a tower.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       04-01-2014, 10:57 AM Reply   
Thank you, that was by far, my favorite tower of all time.

On a different note, how much are galvanized or aluminum trailers. The necessities are tandem axle, galvanized or aluminum tubing, and surge disk brakes on 1 axle. I would just want the regular 14" trailer wheels, no chrome or fiberglass fenders, no diamond plate steps. Just plain jane. At most, I kinda of what LED tail lights. I have yet to price on out. Also, do trailer companies take in trade-ins? OR can they even refurbish old trailers and give the bare metal frame the galvanized treatment?
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-01-2014, 1:32 PM Reply   
$20k-$22k is a lot of money to put into a boat with wood stringers. I don't believe Tige went composite until a few years later. Granted I suspect in another decade you may start seeing a lot of composite boats with stringer issues from wet foam and delamination, but still. Then flipside is it's vdrive.

That's a lot of rusted hardware too, probably looks worse than it is. I don't know, but to me it seems a lot to spend on a wood stringer saltwater boat... Though it may be better to stick with the evil you know if it's been a good boat overall.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-25-2014, 11:28 AM Reply   
Give your uncle $12k throw some towels on the seats and continue using it in salt. You said you will be using your boats in salt so it's better to use a $12k boat in salt versus a $30k boat. Focus on mechanicals and functionality. Try to ignore the aesthetics. Salty dogs look like salty dogs but they can function for years that way.
Old    Rob (DealsGapCobra)      Join Date: May 2010       04-25-2014, 1:08 PM Reply   
I agree with the above. I would only consider this boat if you are willing to run it basically as it is. I may fix the seats and do the best I could on the engine/transmission with a wire brush and rattle can paint but would NEVER consider all of the work you are considering. If you want a boat that is that nice, take your cash and buy a fresh water (or well cared for saltwater) boat so you have a better starting point. You are clearly able to maintain it better than most in the salt environment.

Honestly, I think I would stay away from it as much because of the family issues it could cause. Your uncle has been very generous in letting you use his boat (although it sounds like you have been maintaining it for him) but he thinks it's worth more than you do. If you were to buy it at $12,000 he may feel like he did you a huge favor while you figure you paid top dollar. When problems arise, I just see friction developing. I don't know, I just get the vibe that this is a bad idea.

In either case, I think you are going to be happier spending your $20k on a nicer boat and offering to take you uncle out once in a while.
Old     (madcityskier)      Join Date: Jun 2012       04-25-2014, 2:02 PM Reply   
So my question is how was the boat a few years ago when your uncle left it with you to use? If he's looking at a new boat, is the use you put on the boat costing him money? If it was in reasonable condition when you got it, I would say you should probably be looking to put things right with him rather than return this thing to him and go spend your money on something nice for yourself leaving him with a beat boat in need of extensive repair that he can't get anything for.

If it looked like this when you got it, by all means move on.

My first move would be to talk with him about his expectations before doing anything. Having a big family fight over hurt feelings is to be avoided whenever possible.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       04-25-2014, 2:28 PM Reply   
Now knowing the boat has wood stringers, really turns me away from restoring it.

When I first started using the boat, the interior and trailer were in great condition. However, what started the rust on the engine was that the boat was flooded on the trailer for about a month. There was about a foot of water above the floor and had **** mold growing. It was sitting in his warehouse lot and was never looked at. He then had it detailed and cleaned up. Thats how all the rust started on the mechanical parts.

So, the boat was doomed since the day it was flooded on the trailer. Before that, It was stored in Havasu and had no signs of rust. I started using it in salt about a year after it was flooded. Overall, the thing keeps on chugging with no major problems after all it's been through. I will say that the salt use was a contributor to its condition, but I took care of it the best I could without dropping thousands.

The plan for him, is to get money to buy a duffy boat or ocean boat to sit in his new dock. He just moved onto the harbor and has two docks.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       04-25-2014, 2:33 PM Reply   
Also, the pictures above really look 10x worse than it actually is. Somehow camera flashes magnify that rust color like crazy.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       04-25-2014, 6:06 PM Reply   
One more question... Has the boat dealership that offered your uncle $12k seen the boat? They might turn it away and tell him to sell it outright.

Almost any running functional V-drive is worth over $12k in any condition. I bet there are 10 or more guys on this site that would grab that boat for $12k and run the piss out of it.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-28-2014, 7:54 AM Reply   
I wouldn't let wood stringers turn you away from restoring a boat. All the nicest boats worth restoring have wood stringers. Most composite boats are cookie cutter use 'em 'till they're done, unfortunately a '97 Tige falls into that category, and has wood stringers so is a tougher sell.

Regardless of wood or composite, the biggest problem is you say it sat full of water for a month. The foam is saturated, soaked. Boat is heavy and the water will soak into either wood stringers and floor or between glass layers in composite stringers. It will never dry out. Give it a few years of freeze/thaw cycles and that boat will have delamination issues. The only way to fix it is to pull the floor and remove all the foam. Drill the stringers in a few spots and see if they're wet. If dry just fill and glass over where you drilled, glass in bracing and support for the floor, and put a new floor in. If wet, it's a stringer job. Depends on how well the stringers were glassed in, how long it has been wet, and how lucky you are. Foam kills boats, look at wood stringer boats before foam... Rarely stringer issues. After foam, they all rot eventually. Composite boats? Only a matter of time before the foam gets saturated and needs to be removed. Wood is not the cause, foam and lack of drainage cause stringer and glass problems.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       04-28-2014, 8:45 AM Reply   
That's why Sanger never used foam.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       04-28-2014, 9:05 AM Reply   
Personally, if I were in your position with a budget of about 20k, I would look elsewhere. You can find some decent boats around the 20-25k mark that even in salt were better taken care of.
Now if you were going to buy it for 12k and use it as it sits, maybe adding perfect pass and ballast to add to your enjoyment, that's a good idea.
Clean it up the best you can as a DIY, do normal maintenance, fluids, belts, etc. do what you can with the rust and some paint if you truly believe it is just surface rust and doesn't go deeper. You may also consider seafoaming it to clean out the inside of the engine if you're concerned about build up in it.
I wouldn't dump tons of money into doing that, pulling the motor and everything else you listed to it. You estimate 20k now, but no restoration project is ever straight forward. You will more than likely be around 25k+ and for that, your money can be more well spent.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       04-28-2014, 9:24 AM Reply   
I agree with you guys 100%. I totally forgot about the flood a few year back and I have been having issues with carpet pulling up, driver seat pulling off the floor etc and It all makes sense now. It's definitely a lost cause.

However for the future boat, I am going to save up more and hopefully and the perfect boat pops up. I've been on onlyinboards, craigslist, and boat trader daily, just browsing. Some people are dreaming about some of the prices they are asking. I saw a 08' vlx for close to 70k.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       05-10-2014, 10:42 PM Reply   
Well the tige is out of my possession. Not yet sold but it actually looks way good after it was all cleaned up. Makes me kind of want to buy it myself, yet I have to keep reminding myself of the time it was flooded on the trailer. My uncle has it now, But here is after I spent the day cleaning it up.



Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       05-11-2014, 9:41 AM Reply   
Looks nice, but you are definitely better off letting it pass. It may be hard now, especially with it looking pretty, but it's like saying goodbye to an xgf. They are an ex for a reason, just walk away and wish it well. You will definitely find better.

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