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Old    Tony Remund (TRey19)      Join Date: Sep 2013       03-30-2014, 2:59 PM Reply   
I recently have come across a 2000 EPIC S22 WAKEBOARD BOAT for $21500. We are looking to upgrade to a v-drive from our old direct drive 1989 Mastercraft Prostar 190 (which is for sale if anyone is interested.)

I was just wondering if this is a good deal, as I don't know a whole lot about old wakeboard boats. It's in good physical condition and it has right around 500 hours on it. It comes with fat sacs and a pump, so they're not plumbed in.

Let me know your thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.
Old    James Jackson (jamespjackson95)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-30-2014, 4:34 PM Reply   
I would keep looking... You can get a vdrive mastercraft, malibu, supra, or nautique for around the same price. They will hold value better, and have proven hulls... Xstar or 205v, nautique 210, vlx sv23 wake hull, ssv, ect. Keep looking the deals are out there...
Old    lakeski (lakeski)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-30-2014, 9:13 PM Reply   
You are on to a great boat with very high owner satisfaction and that's why there are not many that come on to the market.

I have a Toyota Epic E-22 (direct drive). As far as holding its value, my local dealership calls me every other year or so to buy it as they have customers who call them looking for one. Every time I get this call, I'm surprised on one hand, but on another it makes sense. There are plenty of people who are strongly loyal to Toyota/Lexus. When they find out Toyota made high quality inboards, the alarm goes off and I get a call. On a couple of these occasions, I could have sold the boat for a profit. But, it's not for sale. We love it. It's a great boat.

The Lexus V8 will run forever with basic maintenance and 500 hours is nothing if it has been maintained. It's the same engine as found in the Lexus LS. If the current owner has not changed the timing belt, deduct $1,000 from their price and have it done when you buy it. (I had mine changed for just over $400 a couple of years ago.) Also, have a compression test done on the engine before you buy it. These engines are in a lot of cars, so mechanics are quite familiar with it.

By the way, the Lexus V8 uses about 30% less gas than the typical inboard engine. That's like paying for about 2 days of riding and getting the third day for free in terms of gas - pretty sweet.

The fit and finish are a decade ahead of its time. It took most of the other high-end mfr.'s until about 2010 to catch up with the Toyota. My boat is 15 years old and most people think it is 1-2 years old.

To learn more, visit www.epicmarine.com. If you have the HIN, you can plug it in to that site and it will tell you which options are on the boat and what the original MSRP was. Also, you can see what other S-22's have been selling for in the years since manufacture.

As far as hull and wake shape, the only way for you to know is to test it (this holds true with Toyota or any other mfr.). I wouldn't make my decision based upon people's opinions who have never ridden behind an S-22 or an SX-22. I can't offer an opinion on the S-22 V-Drive because mine's a E-22 D-Drive which has a totally different wake and hull.

If I had to do it again, I'd buy another Toyota Epic as quick as I could get my hands on one that's been well maintained. Great boat. Nuff said.

Last edited by lakeski; 03-30-2014 at 9:19 PM.
Old    Doug Lindsay (sxjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-31-2014, 3:58 PM Reply   
Ive owned 2 Toyota's over the past 10 years. Had an 1999 E22 directdrive and the coveted(haha) 2001 SX22 vdrive. I sold the SX last May. There not bad boats. They truly have a cult following sold my E22 for more than i paid for it, after upgrades of course. I sold the SX for $1500 less than i paid for it. I had it 7 years and put 500 hrs on it and dumped about $5K into upgrades to the ballast system etc. Yes they are reliable. They stopped making them in 2001 and dont make parts for them. The guy that sells the parts is an ex toyota marine manager with a very poor additude. He is always charging way more than list price for parts and some critical parts like exhaust manifolds are in low supply (did i mention they arent making ANY more parts). they last anywhere from 500 to 1500 hrs.

I enjoyed the boat ,but their wakes are fair at best. I've dumped 3K in ballast and it didnt compare to a malibu vlx with 1200lbs. not even close the wake is wide, Really wide. Too wide. I progressed more in one year on a vlx than 10 in the toyota.

better fuel economy ehhhh........ it maybe better than boats that are older than 2007 without oxygen sensors and fuel control. if you need alot of torque its not there about 80 ft lbs. short of anything compareable built in those years. My buddies 07 vlx with 3K in ballast got the same fuel economy and way more torque.

Did i have owner goggles on YES, was i drinking Koolaid YES. I work for lexus i thought it was cool and yes i could work on it, but most people cant. I rebuilt an engine that a forum member destroyed trying to replace the timing belt themselves. It wont throw engine codes without renting the tool from the ex manager. would i buy another NOPE! wouldn't adivse anyone to. Even if you just want to cruise around the lake and do some mild watersports. There are way better options out there for the money.

Buy a proven hull if you want to be serious about your wakeboarding and surfing.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-31-2014, 6:12 PM Reply   
Doug pretty much nailed why I would be scared to buy one and some of the things I had heard about them when they were still around. At the time they were pretty nice boats but lots of good options out there. That boat would have to be under 15k for me to even consider. I would be way too woried that something on the engine would go bad and there would be no parts available to fix it. Then you have to figure in the price of a brand new engine/transmission which is probably 10k or so since you would need a complete engine and not just a long block.
Old     (Slinger)      Join Date: Feb 2013       04-01-2014, 2:10 PM Reply   
Doug has some really good points above. As far as the wake goes the earlier direct drive epic 21 with a lot of weight was actually nice, back in the day I rode alot(year 2000) behind one full of sacks and concrete. Even then though the SANS or original Xstar/205 was better. When they did the v-drive version we were super excited as we got to test it extensively, unfortunately it was a HUGE disappointment. As someone mention the wake was wide and relatively small, but worse was its tendency to completely washout the moment you edged at all. I've ridden behind better I/O wakes. I would buy a 1989 prostar 190 over the 22v epic any day!
Old    Tony Remund (TRey19)      Join Date: Sep 2013       04-02-2014, 9:03 PM Reply   
It can't be worse than our 1989 prostar 190 wake, we are selling that boat to try and upgrade to a boat with more seating and a better wake. our budget limits us to under 25,000. It has been very hard to find a v-drive for under that price that is within a one day drive there and back.
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       04-03-2014, 5:03 AM Reply   
For 25k you should be looking for a SAN or a mastercraft 205v hull(x1,x2,early xstar). You can get an early malibu vlx formthat also.

All those boats hold their value
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       04-03-2014, 8:24 AM Reply   
There was a 2001 San at Lake Tahoe on Craigslist last week that looked nice. Had perfect pass and supplemental ballast system on reversibles. Was $24999 if memory serves.
Old    Tom (TomH)      Join Date: Jan 2014       04-03-2014, 10:57 AM Reply   
Some local to you:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cs...392216436.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ws...402994942.html (s$$tty tower)

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...403475688.html talk them down under 25

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...376605249.html

That was only a couple minutes searching on craigslist
Old    Eric (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       04-03-2014, 11:15 AM Reply   
If he didn't have a chance to check the hours on that Epic before he stored it, then when did he take those pictures? 10 years ago when he bought it??? Sketchy Toomes.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       04-04-2014, 12:41 PM Reply   
I may have a customer trading in a 2002 Nautique Super Sport with a Nautique tower. Same hull as 210.

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