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Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-11-2014, 8:09 AM Reply   
2003 Sanger v210. So I'm sick of filling my rear sacks manually and am thinking about plumbing them. So my questions are if I have 2x450's should I go with 2 reversible pumps or one, obviously 2 is faster but would one be able to handle the fill pretty efficiently vs. the extra cost?also drilling my hull never done it a Lil worried about it because I know ill be drill ing minimum 2-3 holes,any suggestions on the best way for this?and lastly anybody who's done this what was the ballpark cost?
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-11-2014, 10:14 AM Reply   
Do you have the Straight Line Sumo 450's or the Fly High 400's? You can go with one or two reversible pumps depending on your functionality needs. If you want them both full go with a single pump. They will both fill to capacity within 8 to 10 minutes. If you are going to surf or need to fine tune the wake while under way you will want to install two pumps.

Drilling through the hull is scary but at the same time can be done without too much trouble. Check out this video. http://www.wakemakers.com/resources/...-hull-fittings

You are looking at between $350 and $450 for the single reversible system and between $700 and $800 for two systems.
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-11-2014, 10:20 AM Reply   
Well I have a belly sack plumber and fitted for my walk way sack also on one Johnson pump. So I guess the rear 2 on one pump would be the same full time.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       03-11-2014, 12:58 PM Reply   
Personally I'd put them on 2 separate pumps so you've got the option to dial in the wake side to side or load it up on one side to surf. Even if you don't surf, it's definitely a nice option for buyers down the road if you decided to sell the boat.
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-11-2014, 1:54 PM Reply   
I don't think you can even surf my boat plus surfing looks pretty boring. Knees get bad=wKeskate
Old    Charlie Zulu (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       03-11-2014, 2:00 PM Reply   
I'd dedicate 1 pump per sac.. either Johnson or Jabsco reversible.. #450 are pretty small for the rear compartments.. you'll probably end up installing #750's if you surf.. I have 5 Johnsons in my boat with total of #4K of ballast... I have one 1 1/4 feedthru hull fitting for each pump... It's not a big deal drilling holes. wakeboats are at least 3/4 of an inch thick on the bottom.. Some are over and inch.. You just want to space them a good 10 inches apart..
Old    Nikolas Dramountanis (Greeko)      Join Date: May 2013       03-11-2014, 2:11 PM Reply   
Im with the guys up top. Just go for reversibles! Way better option! One per sack!
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-11-2014, 2:11 PM Reply   
Maybe I will roll with 2 pumps just didn't know if the additional $300 was worth it.
Old    Charlie Zulu (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       03-11-2014, 4:01 PM Reply   
work some overtime.. lol
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-11-2014, 4:17 PM Reply   
Lmao! Iam right now!
Old    Bwake (bwake)      Join Date: Sep 2009       03-13-2014, 4:07 AM Reply   
Hi mate, I have a v210 with 400s in the back and a 580 in the front. The 580 doesn't fill neatly as much as the 400'sby the way, im running 3 pumps fro one big through hull and the system is incredibly fast andvworks great. Two pumps would be best, but if you can wait 5 mins 1 will be fine.

we start filling when the boat hots the water. Boats fill by the time the trailer is parked
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-13-2014, 4:45 AM Reply   
If you just want to make one hole in the bottom of your boat you can simply make a manifold. Heres my aerator setup.

Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       03-13-2014, 6:20 AM Reply   
Just got done doing the same thing although I do run 3 pumps. I already had one existing thru hull and I just added 2 more thru hulls. It's not that scary to drill through the hull and here's some brief pictures of the install. I can tell you that when I pulled from only one, it took forever, but everyone's patience is different haha.
Attached Images
     
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       03-13-2014, 6:20 AM Reply   
Here's the hoses all hooked up
Attached Images
 
Old    Connor (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       03-13-2014, 6:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakedaveup View Post
Here's the hoses all hooked up
Hey Dave, I have your same boat and am considering pulling the tanks and replacing with bags. Did you go with the 400s or the 750s? Also, can you post more pics of the final install with the bags? I just want some ideas before I dive in...
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       03-13-2014, 6:59 AM Reply   
For sure bud I'll get you out some pics this afternoon when I get home from work. I run 750's and while I don't always fill them full for wakeboarding depending on how many people are in the boat, it's nice to have for surfing. I have 2 rear 750's (fly high), 1 locker 600ish (fly high), and 1 triangle bow sac 1000lbs (fly high). The rear bags and bow are all on independent switches and pumps. I'll try and get you pictures of wiring and everything. It's taken me a bit longer than expected to get the boat fully restored to how I want it but when it's done (interior and all) I will post a new thread with the build. If you plan on surfing run the 750's. Here's my set up for surfing that I've found works really really well and puts out a nice wave:

Surf side locker 750lbs (fill full)
Surf side seat 400lbs (manual bag fill full)
Center locker 600lbs

I live in FL and typically surf a lot with just my roommate so usually we just have a driver and that ballast set up listed above. If you have a few extra buddies, the wave just get's bigger and bigger. For an old 210, I really feel the surf wave is underrated.
Old    Connor (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       03-13-2014, 7:18 AM Reply   
Thanks man! I don't really surf much at all, mainly just board. Thats why I was considering the 400s. Decisions, decisions...
Old    Charlie Zulu (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       03-13-2014, 7:28 AM Reply   
Ben... Those tsunami's are not self priming so if the water level is not above that brass elbow, the pumps won't work..
Old    Nikolas Dramountanis (Greeko)      Join Date: May 2013       03-13-2014, 8:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakedaveup View Post
Just got done doing the same thing although I do run 3 pumps. I already had one existing thru hull and I just added 2 more thru hulls. It's not that scary to drill through the hull and here's some brief pictures of the install. I can tell you that when I pulled from only one, it took forever, but everyone's patience is different haha.
Nice clean install, Jus pass on a friendly note from my gelcoat guy. Next time drill from the outside of the hull in. When you chip out your gelcoat like that, spider cracks can form over the hull..
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-13-2014, 8:30 AM Reply   
Do you guys drain through the intake?are there any advantages from drilling through the side. If so is there a way to use the side vent for the drain also?
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-13-2014, 9:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac420sj View Post
Do you guys drain through the intake?are there any advantages from drilling through the side. If so is there a way to use the side vent for the drain also?
I would say about 85% to 90% of people fill and drain below the water line. You would want to go this route to maintain the fastest speeds and to minimize the amount of parts needed for the install. You will have an audible and visual indication of when the bags are full because of the vent/overflow line. You will have an audible indication of when the bags are drained based on the sound coming from the pump motor.

If you want an audible and visual indication of when the bags are drained you can divert the water to drain above the water line. It will cost a little more for the hose barb tee, check valves and extra hose but it could lengthen the life of your reversible pump system. Because you are diverting the water and adding restrictions within the system both the fill and drain times will increase. Not a ton but it is noticeable.

Remember that diverting the water to drain above the water line can be added later down the road. If you start to see a pattern of leaving the pumps on when the bags are dry at that functionality to the system.
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-13-2014, 9:29 AM Reply   
Spencer aside from bags with 2 pumps what would my cost be around?are you guys comparable to say homedepot in fitting and valves etc.
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-13-2014, 10:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac420sj View Post
Spencer aside from bags with 2 pumps what would my cost be around?are you guys comparable to say homedepot in fitting and valves etc.
If you didn't need bags or pumps your price for the plumbing would be $115 per system. That is using a 3/4" intake adapted to 1" after the ball valve and a 3/4" vent line out a 3/4" black plastic thru-hull. A very economical solution. If you wanted to buy the electrical components from us you are looking at around $90. That is for all of the electrical wire, switch, connector, and terminals.

Jumping on my soap box.

For the most part yes but it depends on what you are looking at as we are in the marine parts business and they are in the home improvement business. We beat Home Depot on hose and fittings easily. We also don't make you buy a pack of 10 on the small electrical and plumbing parts.

As for the metal valves I just lowered the price on all of our bronze parts last night. Our under water hardware is bronze which will last longer in the marine environment. Home Depot sells brass valves. They will work but the life is not as long depending on your geographic location. Personally I have used both valves on my boats and have not had any issues here in Central Oregon. As I get older I have been way more into buying things that last. Too many days at the ramp trying to fix the boat while my friends and family give me dirty looks has been minimized.

Is paying less in the short term more important than the product quality and overall life? HAHA. I don't know how many times I have helped customers remove sprinkler system parts from their boats due to failure or issues but it is no small number.

Jumping off my soap box.
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-13-2014, 11:10 AM Reply   
Lol. Ok didn't realize you posted earlier to cost I the thread. So basically around $800. Fml it never ends!!
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-13-2014, 11:27 AM Reply   


ouch. somebody forgot to watch that wakemakers how to drill the hole video. (and don't take it too hard, we've all goofed a project or two, me definitely included!)

I would very strongly recommend going with wakemakers for your ballast kit. They know what works and what doesn't, they are a one stop shop, and they only sell the best parts for the job. I have been EXTREMELY satisfied with wakemakers' knowledge and support before, during, and after the sale. These guys know boats, they know ballast, and they know what works.

I would also strongly recommend going with the crimp style hose clamps instead of the worm drive ones. Yes, you need to invest in the pair of pliers, but they really keep your bilge/ballast area from becoming a pit of knives. The worm drive clamps are sharp, and the more there are, the bigger the opportunity to slice your hand sticking it down there to adjust something.
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       03-13-2014, 11:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac420sj View Post
Lol. Ok didn't realize you posted earlier to cost I the thread. So basically around $800. Fml it never ends!!
B (break) O (out) A (another) T (thousand)
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-13-2014, 11:48 AM Reply   
Boats. Break out another thousand stupid
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-13-2014, 12:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pad1Tai View Post
Ben... Those tsunami's are not self priming so if the water level is not above that brass elbow, the pumps won't work..

You are correct. But since they are in my bilge they are always below the water line when the boat is in the water.

This three pump system completely fills 2150 lbs in 5.5 minutes. Empties out the side of the boat (i like the visual aid) in 8.5 minutes.






Aerators can be a pain if you dont keep them below the water source. But all 6 of mine are below the water they pump and i never have priming issues.
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       03-13-2014, 12:40 PM Reply   
Are they a cheaper. Pros and cons? Mine will be below water line, it is a Sanger. Lol
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-13-2014, 12:51 PM Reply   
When it is all said and done, no i dont think aerator pumps are much cheaper as a whole system.

The pump itself is cheaper, but because you have to add a bit more hoses, check valves, thru hulls and clamps and such it is probably like 1000$ for a three bag system compared to like 1100 for a reversible system.

Reasons why i like aerators.

1. Cheaper to maintain/replace
2. Speed
3. Can be ran dry all day long.
4. Water pumped out the side ( i like the visual aid)
5. Hardly any amp draw
6. Less holes in the bottom of the boat.


Cons
1. Priming issues if not placed correctly
2. Does NOT suck bags completely dry
Old    Connor (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       03-13-2014, 1:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brichter14 View Post
You are correct. But since they are in my bilge they are always below the water line when the boat is in the water.

This three pump system completely fills 2150 lbs in 5.5 minutes. Empties out the side of the boat (i like the visual aid) in 8.5 minutes.






Aerators can be a pain if you dont keep them below the water source. But all 6 of mine are below the water they pump and i never have priming issues.
Hey brichter, hows the wake look with the 750s in the back, the bottom locker sac, and whatever you have in the bow full? any trouble planing?
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-13-2014, 4:20 PM Reply   
With about 600 in each bag, ski locker full and 400 in sand/lead iunder the bow the wake is legendary. All hidden too.
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-13-2014, 4:22 PM Reply   
I would need to prop up if i went with 750s full and a 1k bag in the nose. Im not needing that wake yet.

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