Articles
   
       
       
Pics/Video
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WAKE WORLD HOME
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Wakesurfing

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-26-2014, 9:06 AM Reply   
Big thanks to Marco Thompson and all of his helpers for putting on a great first year event. They had a lot of boats and a good turn out of riders and the weather was amazing, something only Southern California can provide. Marco is a great guy, and I felt like we were on the same team when it comes to his spirit for teaching people how to wakesurf and growing the sport. His enthusiasm and great attitude are infectious, and it set the tone for the event. If you missed it this year and you are within 200 miles or so, that was probably a mistake. These events are a blast and a great way to step out of your comfort zone and try new stuff.


IMG_9763 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_9836 by wake9, on Flickr

RJ and I have put on 4 Polar Bear events and have had the opportunity to see people ride lots of great surf boats. This is the first time, however, we have been able to enjoy an event like this more from a riders perspective. We didn't get a chance to ride as much as others because we came to help first, and also didn't want to get in the way of other riders or take any of their time. That said, we got some great rides and finally got a chance to get some good play time and demos with boats that surf without listing over. I am referring specifically to a Nautique G23 with NSS and Axis boats with Surf Gate, but a Mastercraft X10 with Gen 2 Surf System was also in attendance.

Nautique G23 with NSS

IMG_9777 by wake9, on Flickr

2014 Malibu 23 LSV with Surf Gate

IMG_9807 by wake9, on Flickr

Mastercraft X10 with Gen 2 Surf System

IMG_9768 by wake9, on Flickr

Every boat we saw threw decent surf wakes, some better than others. Some of the boats were dialed and/or weighted for a more tournament class wave, and some were stock or close to stock. We were able to get some time behind the following boats:

  • 2011 Malibu 23 LSV with custom ballast setup, power wedge, monsoon 350, and dealer installed surf gate.
  • Nautique G23 with NSS and I think 450HP motor.
  • Ronix Axis A-22 with Surf Gate.
  • Liquid Force Axis A-24 with Surf Gate, wedge, and 450 HP LS3 Corvette motor.
  • 2014 Mastercraft X10 with Gen 2 Surf System.

2014 Mastercraft X10 with Gen 2 Surf System
I am going to just skip over this boat to some degree. Not because it was bad, RJ thought it threw a decent wake with 800 lbs of stock weight. It was small and probably not the best representation of what this boat could do, especially being in salt water. The system seemed to work to help clean the wake up but this was not a "no list" system, this boat listed to make the wake.

Scott Blanchard's 2011 Malibu 23 LSV
This was a frankensurf boat. What I mean by that is that it was no where near stock and can't be compared to a factory boat. I put Derek's MB B52 and our previous Tige 24Ve in this category in that they are owned by guys that love to tinker and make the best damn wake surf wake they can regardless of what needs to be welded or bolted on. These are always some of the funnest boats to ride on and I love em.

This was a fantastic wave and I am sure was enhanced by the fact that it had a boat load of people which included Dennis (280 lbs) and I (400 lbs) sitting next to each other on the surf side. This boat was also very unique in that it had a Malibu dealer installed surf gate system and was capable of doing a no list wake and a listed wake. This boat has the 350 HP monsoon motor, high altitude prop, and I believe 3500 lbs of ballast when surfing listed plus about 1500 lbs of people and the power wedge. Pictures say it all.

Ryan from Calgary getting some serious air.

IMG_9948 by wake9, on Flickr

RJ riding backside, his Soulcraft had a crack in it, so he rode a unfamiliar Brigade board.

IMG_9965 by wake9, on Flickr

Thomas rippin' his new Chaos Skywalker 4.4. This was his first ride on it and he was all smiles.

2014-02-22 11.13.19-1 by wake9, on Flickr

Plenty of wave, with lots of push.

IMG_0238 by wake9, on Flickr

Even with an unfamiliar board, that lip gave RJ lots of boost.

IMG_0256 by wake9, on Flickr

Scott was proud of his wave, and he had good reason to.

IMG_0111 by wake9, on Flickr

So after we rode the listed wake I asked Scott if we could see the Surf Gate wave. He said sure but said we had to let weight out or the boat wouldn't surf. We took weight out, quite a bit, and it still wouldn't make a wake, the motor couldn't take the weight. So we let out more and it made a wake, but it wasn't anything like the listed wake.


IMG_0160 by wake9, on Flickr

Probably not the best Surf Gate test but very interesting none the less.

[continued...]
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-26-2014, 9:08 AM Reply   
Nautique G23 with NSS
So then we got a chance to ride the G23 with NSS. Greg Dick was at the helm and he was extremely helpful and had a great attitude. Greg is the West Coast Account Manager for Nautique and was very knowledgeable. I think RJ asked him 1000 questions and he didn't seem to get tired of em. ;-) Greg explained that the boat was weighted stock with an additional 500 lbs of steel. I like to call the boats like the G series and the new ASR "3 story" boats. They are immense. Our Z3 and all other wake boats are what I call 2 story boats, they have the passenger deck/cockpit and storage above floor level and then the "basement" with hard tanks and plumbing and such. Its not the best analogy, but it works for me. This boat had room to hide an additional 5000 lbs of water ballast easy and you would never see it without opening compartments. The wake was great for a stock wake as far as size, push and length. It did suffer from a dirty lip that was more than cosmetic on both sides. When RJ went up for air the wash at the lip would grab and keep his board from releasing properly severely hindering tricks like airs, 180s, etc. The wake looked like it could use some more weight and some list to clean it up. I have seen enough video and pics of the G23 surf wake to know that more weight would be even more fun.


IMG_0409 by wake9, on Flickr

It was hard to get a good idea of the size of the wave from up high in the cabin, so I hung my camera off the side.

IMG_0417 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_0420 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_0430 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_0561 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_0579 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_0634 by wake9, on Flickr

Except for the lip issue, it was a very good stock wake and I am sure this has much greater potential.

Ronix Axis A-22 with Surf Gate
On Sunday morning we moved to the San Diego bay and got a chance to ride a few more boats. RJ and Dennis were asked to help teach 2 boat loads of brand new riders. Of course we jumped at the chance to help new people learn. The A-22 with Surf Gate was great for teaching new folks. It didn't matter if they were goofy or regular, they just jumped out and the driver threw a switch. This boat was weighted with more than stock, but definitely not weighted for a world class wake. It also seemed to suffer a bit from a washed lip, but the new riders had a blast.


IMG_0837 by wake9, on Flickr


IMG_0853 by wake9, on Flickr

Liquid Force Axis A-24 with Surf Gate
This boat was slammed and it made a very good wake. The driver was Tim from Liquid Force, and he knew every pound of ballast. He said the stock system (1000 lbs) was full, plus 750s in the rear lockers and a 750 horseshoe sack in the front, plus the 800 lb water bed on the floor. That is 4050 lbs of water, plus about 1500 lbs of people and the wedge. I think its safe to say about 6000 lbs of ballast accounting for the wedge. This boat had the 450 HP LS3 Corvette motor in it and the high altitude 1235 prop and it needed every bit of it. It took at least 30 seconds to a minute for the surf wake to form, but it formed a really nice wake. It was big, hip to waist high and lots of push. It was decently long but could have been longer; they were only going 10.3 mph. Remember this was also salt water and so the wake is going to be a bit smaller in salt water. The wake on the goofy side seemed about the same but I was on the wrong side of the boat and couldn't get a good picture or perspective.


2014-02-23 09.55.08 by wake9, on Flickr


2014-02-23 10.00.45 by wake9, on Flickr

Here is a shot of water mattress 800 lb ballast on the floor.

2014-02-23 09.10.08 by wake9, on Flickr

I have some video of Marco riding this wave that I will post later.

Final Thoughts

No list vs Listed
Which is better? I think it depends on what you want and what you are willing to pay for. I think the question has now been answered for me personally regarding whether a no-list wake can be a weekend warrior or world tournament level wake. You can make a really good wake without listing. The issue is that in order to make a wake like that, it seems from my own observations and the anecdotal evidence from around the web that you need LOTS of weight and LOTS of motor. That means you are going to burn a ton of fuel. There is a cost of ownership and cost to a day of wakesurfing that may be prohibitive to some. I am also not very fond of the water mattress ballast in the boat, but you may be able to put lead all over and not need that. There are lots of young guys that want to wakeboard and surf that don't mind a mattress on the floor, but I am too old and I think most families wouldn't like that. The G23 on the other hand would never need a mattress and so you could hide the weight you needed without issue, but you would still need the motor and lots coin for fuel costs. That boat is expensive so maybe that owner wouldn't mind. There is one other issue with the G23 that I haven't mentioned yet. The first generation Surf Gates had a problem that if you added the extra weight to make the big wake the water rolled over the Surf Gate and the wake didn't form correctly. This is now resolved on the boats we saw, the gates are quite big compared to previous years.

The Surf Gate now goes from the bottom of the hull all the way to the top of the swim deck.

IMG_9807 by wake9, on Flickr

The NSS as you can see in the picture below, doesn't go up very high and suffers from this issue that the previous Surf Gates did. When you add more weight, you have to list the boat. We didn't go on it on Sunday but they loaded the G23 down more and it was running listed. That may not be a bad thing, it seems that when adding more weight it may be better to list to not put such a load on the boat. Whether or not that is feature or a bug is up to the buyer.

The NSS on the other hand does not go very high.

IMG_9777 by wake9, on Flickr
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-26-2014, 9:09 AM Reply   
IMHO the days of 15-20 degrees of list are done, it is just uncomfortable compared to a boat that lists around 10 degrees or less. If it were possible to make a world class wake with no list, all water ballast and hidden, and only burn around 4-6 GPH, that would really blow up my skirt. ;-)

What a great time to be a landlocked surfer. So many choices, the tides are definitely changing.

Click Here to see the full set of pictures on Flickr.

Click Here to visit the SynSwell event page.
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-26-2014, 12:08 PM Reply   
Nice summary and killer photos; Vivid closing statement.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-26-2014, 12:52 PM Reply   
so robert, you thinkg the gate system is the future? Or that listed boats make a better wake still?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-26-2014, 1:11 PM Reply   
I think that heavily listed boats are a thing of the past, that is for sure. I also am sure that a listed boat can make a wake much more efficiently, less weight, less motor. I would also say that a no-list boat can probably make as good a wake as a listed boat, but at a much greater cost. The issue is whether that cost is something you're willing to pay to make a big wake with no list.

Switching in a second or 2 is fun, and I may be wrong, but I think its only fun for a bit.

Currently I think the best surf boat is one that switches side to side in just a couple of minutes, doesn't have to list much and makes a great surf wake with 4-6 GPH, with all water ballast and all hidden.

I would add also that if all things were equal and one boat listed 10 degrees, and the other was weighted flat, I would choose the no-list boat. But all things are not equal. I think of some of the great wakesurf boats we have been around:

Our Z3, RZ2, and 24Ve
Rob's Supreme V226
Derek's MB B52 23
Scott's Bu
(no particular order and some of these boats only switch fast with custom ballast)

All could make world class wakes with 340-350 HP motors and switch side to side in minutes measured with one digit, and have great wakes on both sides. The Tiges burn 4-5 GPH with lots of weight and the rest around 5-6 depending on wedge and stuff. Some of those needed 1235 props, not all.

Those are still my favorite family wakesurf boats.

Last edited by ragboy; 02-26-2014 at 1:13 PM.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-26-2014, 1:15 PM Reply   
gotcha, I would agree.

I bought the tige over the bu with surfgate based on pure wave quality. In talking with you and all the hours I spent researching, thats where I ended up. I would love the chance to try a g23 though.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       02-27-2014, 9:08 AM Reply   
Robert, I know I've heard about pretty high fuel consumption for the G series boats, but did you get an idea from the malibu or axis guys what they are burning when running heavy with a surfgate wave?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-27-2014, 9:20 AM Reply   
No, I can probably find out but its got to be quite a bit. Big motor working hard. My experience with my 409 vs the 343 before it was that if I surf at 3k rpm I get between 4-5 GPH, but if I do anything sustained above 3k rpm my GPH would go up quite a bit, noticeably more than the 343.

The motor in the A24 was working very hard and it took a long time to make a wave at only 10.3 MPH. When we were done and went to head in, he buried the throttle and it took about 2-3 minutes to slowly get to the point where it would plane. If that 450 LS3 was burning under 8 GPH in those conditions, I would be pretty amazed.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-27-2014, 9:23 AM Reply   
That reminds me, the 2011 Bu with surf gate and 350HP monsoon could not even get up to surf speed until we took out a bunch of weight which is why the SG wave was small. He had the high altitude prop and we were at sea level.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-27-2014, 11:51 AM Reply   
I'm sure Soulcrafts Avy was listed hard and threw out a awesome wave, Am I correct?? Guys like me with 10 year old boats and no $$$$ will still be listing hard until we win the lotto! I would love to have a no list boat, but looks like they are still trying to perfect it! I believe, you got to list a little bit, right???
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-27-2014, 12:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
That reminds me, the 2011 Bu with surf gate and 350HP monsoon could not even get up to surf speed until we took out a bunch of weight which is why the SG wave was small. He had the high altitude prop and we were at sea level.
yikes I hope my 350 in my tige is ok!?
Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       02-27-2014, 3:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
No, I can probably find out but its got to be quite a bit. Big motor working hard. My experience with my 409 vs the 343 before it was that if I surf at 3k rpm I get between 4-5 GPH, but if I do anything sustained above 3k rpm my GPH would go up quite a bit, noticeably more than the 343.

The motor in the A24 was working very hard and it took a long time to make a wave at only 10.3 MPH. When we were done and went to head in, he buried the throttle and it took about 2-3 minutes to slowly get to the point where it would plane. If that 450 LS3 was burning under 8 GPH in those conditions, I would be pretty amazed.
1235 is definately the wrong prop for that weight. Should have been using the 2315 at minimum or even better, the 2419.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-27-2014, 3:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarFanatic5 View Post
yikes I hope my 350 in my tige is ok!?

Yep, I would do the 1235 prop, and it will be more than fine. It was only a problem when weighting flat. U will have no issue with the Z3 with the 350.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-27-2014, 3:40 PM Reply   
sweet I upgraded to the 1235 when I ordered it!
Old    Matthew Smith (LKASurfing)      Join Date: Nov 2011       02-28-2014, 4:22 AM Reply   
Ragboy,
Just curios if you have had a chance to get on and see the wake of the new FX44? I was able to get behind it in december & I was blown away!

To be able to throw a wake bigger & better than a weighted 244 at Worlds, with no additional weight in less than a minute was unreal! Plus the boat was completely ambidextrous!
Attached Images
 
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-28-2014, 8:37 AM Reply   
No, I haven't. We did invite centurion with the FX 44 to our polar bear event, but they declined.
Old    Matthew Smith (LKASurfing)      Join Date: Nov 2011       02-28-2014, 1:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
No, I haven't. We did invite centurion with the FX 44 to our polar bear event, but they declined.
Oh bummer!
Well hopefully Mr. Potts can hook you up soon with a ride!
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-01-2014, 5:47 PM Reply   
Syn Swell was an Awesome Time!! Old Friends and Lots of New Friends!!

I was totally blown away by the AxisT22 . the Best Right and Left I have personally ever Seen or Surfed . and the boat changes in about 6 seconds or less . a True Competition Wave at its very Best!!

Here is Jeff from Soulcraft behind the Boat!! Chris rode it later without me on the Boat and Loved it Also!!
Attached Images
  
Old    Russ Weber (Boonejeepin)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-01-2014, 7:25 PM Reply   
Synswell was a great time. Can't wait for 2.0. Maybe next time I will get a chance to ride the other boats.

I was driving a traditionaly listed 2010 Moomba XLV, 340hp Indmar, 3800lbs of ballast.

Just as a reference point I have a 50gallon tank and burned about a half tank after running all day. Approximately 5 -5.5 hrs of surf time.
Old    Reese Hunt III (DuckHuntin1)      Join Date: Jul 2013       03-02-2014, 3:02 PM Reply   
Robert,
Why do you think that a boat would create a smaller wave in salt water than in fresh water?

Remember this was also salt water and so the wake is going to be a bit smaller in salt water.

Thanks for the write up.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-02-2014, 6:30 PM Reply   
Here is a pretty good explanation. Basically, everything is more buoyant in salt water, so a boat will displace less in salt water then in fresh.

http://scuba.about.com/od/Theory/p/B...resh-Water.htm
Old    Reese Hunt III (DuckHuntin1)      Join Date: Jul 2013       03-02-2014, 9:24 PM Reply   
True.

It also says in that article that salt water is more dense (weighs more) than fresh water. So on that same theory one might be adding more pounds per cubic foot to sink their boat by filling bags or tanks. This might even balance out an over buoyancy issue. I run my boat in both salt and fresh water my goal is always to sink the boat to the rub rail. If the rub rail is at the waters edge in both salt and fresh water then the wave should be about the same in size. I do not run any wave enhancement devices like wedges or surf systems or even gates just old school pumps and bags. I have never noticed a difference between the two waters except when getting out of the water and having to clean the salt off.

Maybe the wedge can't sink a boat well enough in the buoyant salt water.?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-03-2014, 4:33 AM Reply   
My point was that this same setup would yield better results, maybe slightly, on fresh water. My understanding from Tim was that this is the setup he uses all the time, for both wake boarding and wakesurfing. If you setup to the rub rail down, that would probably yield similar results in fresh and salt, but using the same weight each time would probably yield better results in fresh.

Its not THAT big of a deal, but I wanted to mention it in a "full disclosure" sense.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-03-2014, 4:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boonejeepin View Post
Synswell was a great time. Can't wait for 2.0. Maybe next time I will get a chance to ride the other boats.

I was driving a traditionaly listed 2010 Moomba XLV, 340hp Indmar, 3800lbs of ballast.

Just as a reference point I have a 50gallon tank and burned about a half tank after running all day. Approximately 5 -5.5 hrs of surf time.
Russ, I didn't get a chance to get on your boat, it would have been fun. Do you have any pics/video of the wake to go with the ones you posted?
Old    Russ Weber (Boonejeepin)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-03-2014, 6:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
Russ, I didn't get a chance to get on your boat, it would have been fun. Do you have any pics/video of the wake to go with the ones you posted?

I am sad to say that I did not get many photos that day. Here are a few from that day and a few from the past. Also a fun video sent from one of the riders.

It would have been fun to have you and RJ out, next time...

http://youtu.be/2fEd3n8pCUk



Tandem with the daughter of one of the participants. First time for her.


Last edited by Boonejeepin; 03-03-2014 at 6:08 AM.
Old    Russ Weber (Boonejeepin)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-03-2014, 6:19 AM Reply   
Old    Reese Hunt III (DuckHuntin1)      Join Date: Jul 2013       03-03-2014, 7:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
My point was that this same setup would yield better results, maybe slightly, on fresh water. My understanding from Tim was that this is the setup he uses all the time, for both wake boarding and wakesurfing. If you setup to the rub rail down, that would probably yield similar results in fresh and salt, but using the same weight each time would probably yield better results in fresh.

Its not THAT big of a deal, but I wanted to mention it in a "full disclosure" sense.
good points all round and something to consider when running under these conditions.
Thanks again for all your write ups and videos always good info for sure.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-04-2014, 7:42 AM Reply   
@russ LOL, you are a man after my own heart Russ, why post one or two pics when eleven will do better, right?

@reese YW and glad you enjoyed the info, we love gathering it. ;-)
Old    Russ Weber (Boonejeepin)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-04-2014, 10:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
@russ LOL, you are a man after my own heart Russ, why post one or two pics when eleven will do better, right?

@reese YW and glad you enjoyed the info, we love gathering it. ;-)

The reason I come to these forums are for the pics.

More is always better!
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       03-04-2014, 1:43 PM Reply   
That's an excellent write up. Thanks for the insight on the different surf systems and listed vs non listed. It looked like a blast to go do. I couldn't make it down there, but will be joining you all for the polar bear later this year.
Also I've been meaning to ask this, Ragboy, do you ever surf? I haven't seen any pics of you out on a board before. Or are you more of the brains behind everything and stay boatside with a camera. I think you've said before something along the lines of "Stick a sexy guy like me in the corner and keep a beer in his hand"?
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-04-2014, 1:46 PM Reply   
there is a vid of him surfing! I seen it!
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       03-04-2014, 1:48 PM Reply   
Link please?
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-04-2014, 1:51 PM Reply   
I"m sure he can tell you which one it is. But If I remember it was one of the videos testing there custom ballast bags
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-04-2014, 3:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by phathom View Post
That's an excellent write up. Thanks for the insight on the different surf systems and listed vs non listed. It looked like a blast to go do. I couldn't make it down there, but will be joining you all for the polar bear later this year.
Also I've been meaning to ask this, Ragboy, do you ever surf? I haven't seen any pics of you out on a board before. Or are you more of the brains behind everything and stay boatside with a camera. I think you've said before something along the lines of "Stick a sexy guy like me in the corner and keep a beer in his hand"?
There are 3 or 4 videos over the last couple years with me behind the boat, but this is the one car fanatic is referring to:



I am fair weather surfer, since a wetsuit would be tough to find. ;-) Also my board is quite large and so I don't take in other other boats, but when we go out as a family, every one of us surfs, mom, dad and all of our kids. Probably why RJ will never be too competitive in pro, he has to fight for time!
Old     (st68)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-04-2014, 5:33 PM Reply   
Nice video!!!
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-05-2014, 7:34 AM Reply   
AXIS T22, tell me MOAR!! Would really like to know the details on this one with regard to weight,
people, engine and ballast system (6 seconds?).
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-05-2014, 12:02 PM Reply   
We rode the A22 which wasn't very impressive, but probably because it wasn't slammed. The A24 was slammed and made a very good wake, and switched in a few seconds. The T22 we didn't get to ride behind, but looked really good, and seemed like it didn't quite require the same weight as the A24, but still pretty heavily weighted and I am guessing also with wedge.

Aside from that, and what I posted above, I don't really have any info on the T22.

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:49 AM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2012 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us