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Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       02-09-2014, 4:18 PM Reply   
So I'm looking at adding another set of speaker into the spare factory tower mounts on my 2013 Tige RZ4, and was wondering how big of a difference in sound and performance there really is between the 2? I've already got a set of Rev10s in the outer mounts, so I'm looking to go just a bit smaller on the inner mounts to maintain some headroom. I've read the stats between the 2 am aware of the HCLD vs. tweeter system, but is it really worth almost double the price to go up to the Rev8 over the Icon? I'm not as big of a stereo junkie like a lot of you guys are and don't care about blowing out everyone on the water in party cove like some people, I would just like to get some more clean sound out behind the boat while riding.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-09-2014, 6:11 PM Reply   
IMO your rev 10's will make the icons irrelavent. They wouldn't even be heard next to the 10's. The rev 8's will make an audible difference.


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Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-09-2014, 7:39 PM Reply   
My thought exactly. The REV 10 is going to just drown out the Icon8. Would be a waste of money IMO. If your going to spend the money stay with the REV series together.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       02-09-2014, 8:05 PM Reply   
So there's really that much of a difference then? Kinda surprised that the Icons would be drowned out like that....guess I'll start pinching my pennies a little tighter then....
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       02-09-2014, 11:29 PM Reply   
Or you can set them up independently so you can play the icons while in a cove and the REV when boarding. Your setup would definitely be louder with icons and REVs playing so don't think that it would be a total waste.
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       02-10-2014, 12:13 AM Reply   
Rev10 all the way. Do it right, do it once. I say this in every one of these threads, because these folks on WW tried to show me the light when I was trying the "budget" "economic" "reasonable" route last summer. A second set of rev10 will not only have a better sound, but more output as well.
Now I have 4 rev10's, all sinister amps, a 420sq, and the bluetooth module. So we can see how that went.

On that note, for what you are going to pay for a set of Rev8's, I have a set of brand new, im talking probably 15-20hrs on the boat time, Rev10's with swivel clamp, that I am looking to sell/trade for a 410, so I can go the threesome route for the best of both worlds on my party cove set up.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-10-2014, 4:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmorlan View Post
Rev10 all the way. Do it right, do it once. I say this in every one of these threads, because these folks on WW tried to show me the light when I was trying the "budget" "economic" "reasonable" route last summer. A second set of rev10 will not only have a better sound, but more output as well.
Now I have 4 rev10's, all sinister amps, a 420sq, and the bluetooth module. So we can see how that went.

On that note, for what you are going to pay for a set of Rev8's, I have a set of brand new, im talking probably 15-20hrs on the boat time, Rev10's with swivel clamp, that I am looking to sell/trade for a 410, so I can go the threesome route for the best of both worlds on my party cove set up.

Can you PM me sir?


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Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       02-10-2014, 6:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastR3DN3K View Post
So I'm looking at adding another set of speaker into the spare factory tower mounts on my 2013 Tige RZ4, and was wondering how big of a difference in sound and performance there really is between the 2? I've already got a set of Rev10s in the outer mounts, so I'm looking to go just a bit smaller on the inner mounts to maintain some headroom. I've read the stats between the 2 am aware of the HCLD vs. tweeter system, but is it really worth almost double the price to go up to the Rev8 over the Icon? I'm not as big of a stereo junkie like a lot of you guys are and don't care about blowing out everyone on the water in party cove like some people, I would just like to get some more clean sound out behind the boat while riding.
Everyone is in agreement that the Icon8 will not keep up with the Rev10 in output. More surface area translates to more output and the 10" has about 60% more surface area. The 8" would require about 2/3rds more power to be of equal amplitude yet the Icon8 will handle less power having a smaller voice coil on both the midbass and tweeter. Either one dominates and minimizes the other contribution or one is put at risk if you attempt to equalize the output with differently powered channels.
The Rev8, because it is smaller in size than the Rev10, will still lag in output but with similar power you will hear the Rev8 contribution when side by side with the Rev10. Plus, the Rev8 is capable of handling similar power, not equal but much closer.
It's definitely not a quality difference between an Icon and a Rev. It's just a design difference between two series that are designed for different purposes. The Rev HLCD has a larger tweeter diaphram, larger voice coil and is loaded with a compression chamber and horn. Why? Simply for more output and projection. So the midbass driver and the tweeter mate well.
The Icon has a conventional and smaller direct-radiating 1" dome. To make the tweeter and midbass driver combine properly, the midbass driver must be a different design from scratch. The Icon is more for the person who surfs or listens in closer proximity at rest and places more emphasis on near field sound quality versus projection distance. Also, while the Icon8 is less expensive, it is less expensive to power to potential. Just different products with different targets.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       02-10-2014, 7:00 AM Reply   
Thanks for the info fellas. Looks like it's settled that I'm gonna go with the Rev8's (despite being way more than I was wanting to spend). JMorlan, PM details on those Revs please. I'd prefer the Rev8s over the Rev10s for the little bit of extra headroom, even if it is pretty minimal. I'm 6'0" and probably the shorter of most of my friends that ride with us and I have a tendency to bang my head on the 10s that are already set off to the outside.

Also, I'm already set up with 2 WetSounds 1000W amps (one to the interior speakers, one to the sub and tower speakers), and the spare tower mounts are already factory wired to in to the amp. Do you guys think this will be a big enough amp to push all 4 tower speakers and the sub without issue, or should I look at upgrading to a bigger or separate amp for tower speaker/subs. Keep in mind my previous statement about not being the kind of guy who is looking to blow everyone out in party cove. 90% of what we do these days is surf, the rest of the time is tubing, boarding, and lounging, so projecting the sound 100 yds behind the boat at speed isn't my main concern. I just want a bit more sound that is clear and clean.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-10-2014, 8:11 AM Reply   
What amp model, not the watts it puts out, is there powering the current set of Rev-10"s? This is the info needed. If its a factory setup, the Syn-6 will be driving the sub and in-boats, not tower and sub and could be a Syn-2 driving the tower, but possibly a Syn-4.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       02-10-2014, 8:17 AM Reply   
Syn6 on the in-boat speakers, Syn4 on the tower/sub
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-10-2014, 8:50 AM Reply   
Did you already do some work on the stock stereo? Because with the factory tower of power option you would have the 6 inboats and the sub running off the syn6 and a syn2 running the REV10s on the tower.
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       02-10-2014, 8:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastR3DN3K View Post
Syn6 on the in-boat speakers, Syn4 on the tower/sub
I would double check that. Although, of all the configurations possible with those two amplifiers specifically, it is likely that you bridged four channels into two in order to have enough power to drive the Rev10s well. You'll want fairly equal power to the Rev8s and 10s in this situation, so you probably will need another amplifier or a single replacement amplifier. A Wetsounds SD2 would work well to drive the four Rev tower speakers with the Syn6 remaining to drive all in-boat speakers/sub.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-10-2014, 9:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastR3DN3K View Post
Syn4 on the tower/sub
If this is the case, then I would wanting more tower speakers also, but you're chasing your tail.

This is not the factory configuration and also not the best configuration of that given setup. The Syn-6 should be driving the 6 in-boats and the 10" sub.

If you have a Syn-4 as the 2nd amp, it should be driving the tower speakers with 400W rms @ 4 ohm in 2 chnl mode. You would need a 2nd amp to drive a 2nd pair of speakers, but with the Rev-10/Syn-4 setup, not many people see the need for more speakers.

I would maybe enlist the help of a mobile/marine audio shop to help you determine what gear is actually driving what speakers.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-10-2014, 9:57 AM Reply   
what tige mike said. a set of rev 10's with a syn 4 is loud as all hell. if its a factory set up it should be syn 6 to inboats and sub. and syn 2 to tower. IF its different then I would switch up the configuration and add a ws420 and syn 4. if you have a syn 4 already, just change up the configuration
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       02-10-2014, 11:52 AM Reply   
I'll double check when I get home, but I could've sworn it was a Syn4 to the tower/subs
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-10-2014, 1:15 PM Reply   
The fact that you even have a syn 4 tells me you do not have the factory system. I don't see a way that amp is running the towers and the sub. If it is no wonder you aren't happy with the sound.

Also you said you have 8 XS-650 in boats? Factory only installs 6. Wonder how they are hooked up? Mike how many can you run per channel? I know 1 is 4 ohm and 2 becomes 2 ohms, is that the max per channel?
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-10-2014, 1:19 PM Reply   
you can run 2 sets of xs650's per channel for a 2 ohm load.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-10-2014, 1:40 PM Reply   
As in 4 speakers per amp channel for 2 ohms? I thought 2 speakers on one channel was 2 ohms?? Is that what you mean, 1 set(2 speakers) per channel? If not your saying a 6 channel HT6 or Syn 6 can run 24 speakers at a 2 ohm load? Thats sounds like to many?
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-10-2014, 1:44 PM Reply   
the syn series amps can run in 2 ohm stereo mode. so each channel can run 2 speakers per channel. so channel one would run 2 xs650's. they are a 4 ohm speaker but wired togeather they become a 2 ohm load. So 2 channels can run 4 speakers, etc. its 2 speakers per channel in 2 ohm stereo mode.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-10-2014, 2:24 PM Reply   
Thats what I thought. I knew they could run 2 speakers per channel for a 2 ohm load. I have just never heard anyone say you could run 2 sets(4 speakers) per channel. I was just confused by you saying:

"you can run 2 sets of xs650's per channel for a 2 ohm load."

Because that would be 4 speakers per channel!
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-10-2014, 2:29 PM Reply   
ya my bad I meant 2 speakers per channel, not a set of 4
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-10-2014, 4:14 PM Reply   
In theory, you can wire as many speakers as you want to a chnl, as long as the nominal impedance is not below 2 ohm. In a practical sense, the Syn-6 can run 1 pair of 4 ohm speakers wired in parallel p/chnl.

The Syn-4 can easily run a pair of 4 ohm tower speakers on chnls 1 and 2, then a sun bridged on chnls 3/4. Perfect setup for a pair of XST650/65 or Icon-8 and XS-10fa/XS12. This would drive a pair of Rev-8's or Rev-10's, but no where near their potential.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       02-10-2014, 8:52 PM Reply   
Well I'm gonna be honest with you guys, you're speaking way over my head when it comes to the power/wattage/ohms/etc. I've built a few basic single amp/single sub systems in my day, but nothing that complicated. I was just gonna let the guys at the dealership take care of doing the wiring/install. My main question was whether the Revs were really worth double the cost of the Icons for my purposes. I know a lot of you guys like to run some of the biggest, baddest systems on the water, but that's just not me. I want to be able to turn it up a good bit while we're surfing/tubing/boarding without deafening everyone in the boat, and loud enough that we can drown out the obnoxiously loud douchebags at party cove with their $10,000 systems enough to comfortably hear our music. Are the Icons going to be drowned out by the Rev10s that are already there, making the Icons a waste of money?
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       02-11-2014, 6:34 AM Reply   
Follow the advice given by others above and make first priority that you power the existing pair of Rev10s to potential with 400 watts per speaker. If you have a Syn4 in your system then that needs to be bridged and solely dedicated to the Rev10s. Then if you are not satisfied start exploring your next option. But the route you should NOT take is adding Icon8s or any other tower speaker and moderately powering all four. The net result will not be as good and you will have spent more for less results.
Finally, and this has already been covered, an Icon8 is NOT the speaker to mix with a Rev10. In one power scenario the Icon8 will not keep up in amplitude. In another power scenario the Icon8 will be damaged. I understand the need for less hang height towards the center. If you are going to maintain the Rev10s and add something with less hang height in the center then it has to be Rev8s.
Old    Ryan K (FastR3DN3K)      Join Date: Jun 2013       02-11-2014, 10:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAnalog View Post
Follow the advice given by others above and make first priority that you power the existing pair of Rev10s to potential with 400 watts per speaker. If you have a Syn4 in your system then that needs to be bridged and solely dedicated to the Rev10s. Then if you are not satisfied start exploring your next option. But the route you should NOT take is adding Icon8s or any other tower speaker and moderately powering all four. The net result will not be as good and you will have spent more for less results.
Finally, and this has already been covered, an Icon8 is NOT the speaker to mix with a Rev10. In one power scenario the Icon8 will not keep up in amplitude. In another power scenario the Icon8 will be damaged. I understand the need for less hang height towards the center. If you are going to maintain the Rev10s and add something with less hang height in the center then it has to be Rev8s.
David thanks for that answer, that is pretty much what I was looking for. I don't want to drop $700 on the Icons if I'm going to blow them up or not be able to hear them, so I guess if I do upgrade I'll pick up a set of Rev8s and (apparently) a new amp. I've never actually bothered looking at how the Rev10s were wired in, but when I get home this weekend I think I'm gonna uncover the boat and crawl in there to look to see how it's set up. Like I said before I'm pretty sure it's a Syn4, but I can't remember it's been so long since I looked. If it is a Syn2, is there an alternative wiring method to squeeze out some more power/sound with the Rev10s?
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       02-11-2014, 12:52 PM Reply   
Okay, if it is a Syn2 then you really don't have enough power to reach the full potential of the collective Rev8s and 10s from that single amplifier. But if you are correct in that the amplifier is presently running both the tower and sub, then it must be a Syn4. In either case you will need to supplement either amplifier with one more or use a replacement.
Certainly you can use the Syn6 to effectively drive the sub and all in-boats. Keep this amplifier free of the tower speakers since bridging highpass channels will lose you one pair of necessary channels. That much you can put to rest. Past that I would suggest that you wait until you confirm exactly what you have. At that point, we (myself and the others that have been helpful here) can give you some solid options and speak in specifics.

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