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Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       03-16-2014, 5:38 PM Reply   
I agree with above post..... That is from boat driver I mean. They know it's a dam problem because they r offering to get him out though not in a manner to satisfy Brandon. I keep asking Brandon why will u not respond? What do u want to happen to resolve the problem? And why doesn't everyone get off of his nutz , u r defending skiers choice when obviously they know he has a major problem that none of us would want. I do hope that they make it right and I don't want to imagine being n his shoes

Last edited by MIKEnNC; 03-16-2014 at 5:42 PM. Reason: Typo
Old    Brian (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       03-16-2014, 5:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
Wait......what??



Weather it be a ski tug, or a G25, I have never seen a DD or v drive lay over more than 20-25ish degrees in a sharp turn. Granted, we don't go out and power turn all day, but yes, I have tested the handling of my inboard boats from time to time....... The absolute biggest handling advantage of an inboard, is the fact that it DOESNT lay over like an I/O would. Am I missing something??

I agree, I haven't seen any inboards power turn that aggressively either, but that's all subjective. I have no idea what this boat is actually doing, that's why I'm curious to see what's going on, is it a boat issue? Weight and balance issue? Operator error issue? We don't know until we see the video or a good, detailed description of the effects of the defect.

The only thing I know from this thread is that the boat dealer failed to give the owner a water test before he bought it, and the owner failed to insist on a water test before he bought it, and now he's not happy with how the boat drives. This should serve as an example to anyone considering buying a boat that a water test is necessary no matter how much you think you know the boat, brand or dealer.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-16-2014, 7:04 PM Reply   
Can't wait to see the video!!

Having had and fought a lemon boat I can tell you a lot of the advise on here is garbage. The best I see is Chatt's. I can tell you refunding your cash is never an option to the dealer or manufacturer. It took me well over a year and getting an attorney involved to get a resolution. It wasn't what I wanted, but the lesser of the evils in the end. Mine had to go back to the factory to be repaired and was gone over 4 months. The manufacturer handled all costs including my payments during that period. It had major hull work like it sounds like yours needs and didn't affect the value at all. There is no salvage titles for boats so the repair will not hurt your value at all. But I can tell you..you will always hate the boat. I sold mine within a year of getting it fixed. I hated it and was scared it was going to break again every trip out. It ran flawless after repair and was trouble free for over 80 hours the next summer, I still hated it.

My advise…get it fixed and sell it. But time is not on your side. Sitting around being upset is hurting your chances for any resolution. DO SOMETHING!! Get a lawyer or send it back to the factory. Thats your options and you need to do something pronto. Also the fact that they are offering to fix it(which is their only legal obligation in most cases) it going to make it nearly impossible to win any action. Lemon law always requires you let them try to correct the problem. Most require 3 failed attempts to correct and you haven't given them even 1 chance to work on it. What you will find is the law is clear on what their legal obligation is and as many have mentioned you will probably find that Skiers Choice's obligation here is going to be to correct the problem. As of right now the only one failing to help the process is you. A court isn't going to care that you don't like the options. You have a warranty and they have an obligation to fix your boat. They have no obligation to give you a new one, return your money, trade it in or anything else. I'm not giving you just my opinion, but my experiences from having spent almost 2 years of my life going thru this exact thing. I had a well respected consumer protection attorney and also spoke to judges who hear these cases as well as many others who deal in this arena for a living.

Take it for what its worth..but standing around saying I don't like their options is going to get you nowhere. As I see it you have 4 options: Trade for the SA350(with 10K), let them honor their obligation/ warranty and fix your boat, get a lawyer, or just keep crabbing on here about how you don't like it. Like I said, if you want to resolve this time is of the essence, you need to do something now. First thing a lawyer and judge will ask you is why did you wait so long.
Old    Rick Tinker (rickt)      Join Date: May 2002       03-16-2014, 7:33 PM Reply   
Brandon has been contacted by our customer service department this evening to again try to arrange a return of the boat for examination. He did not answer. I apologize again for the life this situation has taken and for our part in that. I contacted Brandon in mid of feb when the non selling dealer in the area contacted me after he met Brandon at the Houston boat show and they discussed his boat and the issues he described. Apparently the dealer and Brandon could not reach an agreement on a trade though they both worked toward that at the time. After mine and brandon' s conversation regarding the concerns he had for the boat, we first discussed a trade with his selling dealer on an SA,which was his preferences vs the boat being brought back to the factory and it be repaired(if the transaction was completed the dealer would have returned the boat and we would have evaluated it). This transaction did not get completed for reasons that the dealer and the consumer are aware of. I have contacted the dealer who was working with Brandon on this situation multiple times during the last three to four weeks. The response has been that they are working on it. Only recently did the dealer answer that were not able to reach a conclusion. At which time, our customer service department has begun to reach out to Brandon directly to schedule a return of the boat. It is our hope to bring the boat back under warranty and examine the issue and resolve it.

I am not sure responding to this thread from my standpoint adds further value and probably only makes it worse and for that i apologize. We are not perfect and I am sure we have made mistakes in handling this situation. But we stand behind our product and our warranty and will make sure those elements are honored.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       03-16-2014, 7:44 PM Reply   
Rick your answering in this forum is absolutely awesome! Maybe Brandon is being a unreasonable maybe not.
But please answer this, do you think it is reasonable for one of your customers to have to send you guys back a brand new boat and wait 6 months basically losing another season of boating?

I certainly don't. But again I love that you are answering back on this forum!

Btw: great job bringing that SA to market! My second favorite boat made right now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Old    Russell (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-16-2014, 7:48 PM Reply   
It is kind of ironic SC is trying to get a hold of Brandon while (according to his buddy in an earlier post) they are out shooting (at the demand of the Wakeworld faithful) the highly sought after video.
Old    Rick Tinker (rickt)      Join Date: May 2002       03-16-2014, 8:04 PM Reply   
Ron, I can't comment as to it taking 6 months or 6 days, nor can anyone else....Because we are not sure what the issue is.
But I agree with you that 6 months is not reasonable to expect.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-16-2014, 8:04 PM Reply   
rick, as echoed above your presence is awesome. i love it when you and the president of tige and other manufacturer employees post. you have obviously extended your olive branch as far is it can be. it is obvious that you want to make it right in some capacity.
Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       03-16-2014, 8:07 PM Reply   
I agree get him out of the dam boat, suck it up if u have too and be one of the few companies still around wanting to satisfy their customers. I get it, u want to minimize profit loss and costs for ur company however extreme problems call for extreme solutions. This is one of those situations. If u lose a little or a lot of money so be it. Should be an afterthought after this customer has been taken through the ringer by your customer service dept as he said and by your dealer whom represents your product. How many hoops should he have to jump thru to get it done. Suck it up, trade him out or build him new, get the other boat back and use as tax write off and loss or just fix it and sale at a discount to get this customer, your customer taken care of and move on.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-16-2014, 8:08 PM Reply   
It's been several ours since the big shoot...maybe the thing sank.

In all seriousness, how does this thing ever get resolved without either a) sending it to the factory or b) having a similarly qualified 3rd party perform an evaluation of the the boat to determine what the problem is (I'm not sure who such a 3rd party would be). With regards to lemon laws, my understanding has always been that the manufacturer in such a scenario has a "duty to repair," and that a replacement doesn't come into play unless the manufacturer can't adequately repair it in a reasonable number of attempts. Again, as I've stated above, if i was the OP I wouldn't be thrilled about having my new boat hacked apart. That being said, it may be time to come to grips with reality. While he may not have any great options, making payments on something he can't use and is actually depreciating doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       03-16-2014, 8:11 PM Reply   
Another round or supra koolaid for everybody at the bar. Open bar. Amazing that so many won't put themselves in one of our owns shoes and feel his pain and stress over his expensive purchase and what should be time for him to enjoy and make memories. Remember none of us can get anymore time back once it's gone. Time is our most precious asset, how much has Brandon lost already?
Old    Tim (Tims)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-16-2014, 8:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEnNC View Post
Another round or supra koolaid for everybody at the bar. Open bar. Amazing that so many won't put themselves in one of our owns shoes and feel his pain and stress over his expensive purchase and what should be time for him to enjoy and make memories. Remember none of us can get anymore time back once it's gone. Time is our most precious asset, how much has Brandon lost already?
Been in this dudes shoes with a Different brand and never got a call from someone at the factory. With the info provided, can't feel sorry for this guy. My boat kept stranding me after multiple repairs. This guy won't even let them fix it!
Old     (Supra24)      Join Date: Sep 2013       03-16-2014, 8:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEnNC View Post
Another round or supra koolaid for everybody at the bar. Open bar. Amazing that so many won't put themselves in one of our owns shoes and feel his pain and stress over his expensive purchase and what should be time for him to enjoy and make memories. Remember none of us can get anymore time back once it's gone. Time is our most precious asset, how much has Brandon lost already?
How is it supra koolaid? Mike, what would you expect if you were in his shoes? What is reasonable?

They have offered to repair the boat. It seems (unsure) they have offered a new 22v. They have offered a jump to the "new body style" for a small cost. Both of the last options sound reasonable to me. Honestly the first is reasonable with some form of compensation for the downtime.

Ya'll act like he should get handed a SA 550 without even letting the factory look at the 22v.

I agree on time being precious ... which is why it's weird it wasn't taken care of over the winter. Instead 40 hours were put on the boat. Why isn't the boat in Tennessee right now?!? No matter what the end answer is, the boat should be inspected by the manufacturer asap, no?

I'd have no problem empathizing with Brandon if he were taking steps to resolve the issue. IMO, he seems more concerned with taking down the haters than getting his boat fixed.

Brandon, if you want WW's advice, post up what you feel is the acceptable remedy. I'm sure you will get plenty of opinions on whether or not its reasonable.
Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       03-16-2014, 8:48 PM Reply   
That's whati repeatedly have asked. I'm standing up for this guy against those bashing him because I feel sorry for his situation. But I flat out want to know what his ideal remedy to the problem is. That's what is frustrating me is he hasn't flat out stated what HE wants
Old    Chance Alex (calexan)      Join Date: Dec 2008       03-16-2014, 9:16 PM Reply   
Ugh...... Where's the video? Brandon dont you go all Boeing 777 on us!!
Old    Cody Oldham (Ride)      Join Date: Aug 2011       03-16-2014, 9:47 PM Reply   
I think it is awesome that Rick Tinker has reached out to Brandon many times. If I was Brandon, I would let Skiers Choice pick up the boat and examine for defects and take the appropriate steps to getting it repaired. Yes, it sucks to pay for something you can't use for a few months. He could have easily have timed this right and let them do the repairs during the winter season so he wouldn't miss any lake time at all. The boat would have sat in storage anyways with him making payments during this time - he should have sent to SC.

I have owned a SC product and I can tell you that my local dealer (Houston, TX) is top notch and would bend over backwards for any issues I've had.
I've personally also dealt with Skiers Choice for events in our area and can't say enough great things about what they do for our community.

Brandon, if you spent as much time communicating with Rick and Skiers Choice, as you do posting on WW, your boat would be under repair right now. Just use your buddies Axis for the time being and enjoy the water. It's unfortunate that this happened and I would be upset to a certain extent as well, but things like this happen. I wouldn't let this deter me from the brand.

Cody
Old    Wayne Robbins (melton1wake)      Join Date: Oct 2011       03-16-2014, 11:40 PM Reply   
Are we talking about a case of chine lock on this boat? I have a friend that I ride with quite reguarly that has a 2010 Sunsport 22v that will chine lock. It is very scary the first time it happens. I think about every tow boat manufacturer has had certain years and models of boats that have issues with chine locking. The first time my friend's boat chine locked with me, I had his family and my family in the boat, he was wakeboarding and I was driving. It rolled over on it's side and would not steer and had major cavitation, but the board racks were not dragging water at all. Once it happens you have to back off the throttle and let the boat settle back down. Brandon if you think this is what is happening to you give me a shout. He changed the prop, adjusted the wake plate and we changed up the ballast we were running and it hasn't been much of an issue since. I think we are running about 4k in ballast right now on his boat and usually pull at around 22.8mph. That 22v hull is a bit finicky about weight and handling but is a great ride after you get it dialed in. Rick shows great representation from SC by posting on here in my opinion. I'm not looking to pick sides or jump into an arguement, I'm just trying to offer some help.
Old    David Langston (rdlangston13)      Join Date: Feb 2011       03-17-2014, 1:54 AM Reply   
Ok so we know he met with a dealer at the Houston boat show from previous comments. This was in January which is more like 3 months ago, not six. We know that despite the boat having "life threatening" characteristics he still seemed to deem is safe enough to put 40 hours on it. And we know that SC has offered to honor their warranty and fix the boat or there a deal with the dealer to get him into a demo SA350 for 10k and his boat.

Although it DOES suck to pay interest on something you can't use he could have brought this up months ago when he first started experiencing the issue and he would could have had it fixed during the off season and be all set for summer. I understand he doesn't want his boat "hacked" apart but if all they do is replace the bottom hull then I fail to see it as that much of a "hack" job. I not like they are cutting a 4 foot diameter hole in the bottom and reglassing it.

SC has offered to honor the warranty, its a crap situation but you really can't expect much more. This has nothing to do with big business vs little man, they are offering to meet their obligation and the OPs holding out is what is costing him money and time.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 6:33 AM Reply   
Go back and reread the posts about Brandon's situation. He has tried to work with several dealers. No one, that I've seen, has offered to take the boat back to the factory on its nickel, much less give him a loaner during the repair. Now, the factory is involved. Why? Because a dealer cannot do this repair itself and, as a result, doesn't want to get involved. There's no upside for any dealer to help Brandon.

For those of you who have seen wakeboats built in person, you can appreciate what will be required to put a new bottom hull on this boat (if that's necessary). I'm talking about a complete disassembly. Now, if skiers choice is not even making a 22ssv anymore, that could cause problems fixing this boat correctly. I mean, it is possible that the hull could be reinforced or something without having to respray a new hull, but then you've got a repaired boat with a documented history of problems and a one-off repair. If you don't think that will affect resale, what will? I certainly would not pay full freight resale value for a boat with such a history.

What needs to happen here is Brandon needs to take his boat to a local dealer and skiers choice needs to pick the dang thing up and bring it back to the factory for inspection. In the meantime, skiers choice needs to pick up Brandon's payments on the boat until a resolution is finalized. If the boat can be repaired so that it is built like every other 22ssv out there and performs correctly, then great. Fix it and send it back. When Brandon takes possession, he starts making payments again. However, if the boat cannot be fixed so that it is like any other 22 ssv, Brandon needs to get his money back or Skiers Choice needs to find a way to give Brandon another 22ssv. Presumably some other dealer in the USA has a 22ssv in stock that Brandon would accept (if for no other reason but to resell it).

Sounds like to me, and maybe I'm wrong, Brandon is being told, "Hey, bring the boat in so we can inspect it and determine what to do." The fly in the ointment for that suggestion is that it would require Brandon to tow the boat over ONE THOUSAND MILES to Loudon, Tennessee, or to pay several thousand dollars to ship the boat. If Skier's Choice has offered to ship the boat back or send someone to come and get it, that would help change my perception as to this situation, but that still leaves open the issue of Brandon making a payment on a boat that is sitting at a factory waiting for repair. You want to know why it would take six months (maybe) to fix? Oh, because this is the heaviest production time of the year, with boatshows just having wrapped up and all of the orders having been submitted and spray dates/windows having been given to dealers/customers. With Skier's Choice being a smaller manufacturer, it's not like it has a bunch of guys with time to spare to figure out what's happening with this boat and fix it. Now, if Skier's Choice was footing the bill for payments on a boat that needs to be repaired, I'd presume it would get it sorted out much quicker. What's the motivation for this repair to be prioritized if Brandon is making payments and has not been provided with a suitable loaner? Pretty much none.

I am also curious about the video. We may never see it and may never hear from Brandon or his friend again. Actually, I hope we don't, because that will mean that something was worked out with Skier's Choice, and it included an agreement that neither Brandon nor his friend will continue to post in this thread.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2014, 6:39 AM Reply   
Has Brandon put 40 hours on this boat or did he buy it with some on it? I only ask because I put that on in about a season. The boat is either not entirely unusable, or he has sunk a LOT of time into trying to troubleshoot this thing. Also, how is the boat to be sent to TN? Is he expected to get it there, or is SC picking up the tab for that?
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-17-2014, 6:44 AM Reply   
Pretty sure SC isn't what you would call a small manufacturer...they build more boats than Nautique and are the third largest manufacturer behind Malibu and MC. And Chatt, I highly doubt that they are making him trailer the boat all the way from Texas to Tennessee.

According to previous posts, they can't even get permission from Brandon to see the boat at all. Hard for them to do anything without even being able to examine the boat. Also, why should Brandon be treated any different than someone who bought their boat outright and has no payments?

I'm still curious what Brandon's expectations are for this, as are a few others in this thread. He has yet to answer what he expects for Skiers Choice to do. None of us know what has been offered to him and whether he turned it down or not. For example, why does option 2 only include trading up to an SA? Why is no 22V replacement mentioned? Brandon needs to come and clarify if he would even accept another 22V, because if he won't then he just expects a brand new SA to be given to him and that's unreasonable in my opinion. Especially when he won't even let the manufacturer see the boat and determine what is wrong.

Last edited by Rusty; 03-17-2014 at 6:50 AM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 6:49 AM Reply   
He's not being treated differently. If he owned the boat outright, he damn sure demand a loaner boat while his goes back to the factory to get the hull lopped off and rebuilt. I'm presuming that someone like Brandon, who appears to be close to his financial limit, would rather have his payments made for him. If he'd rather a loaner, and a local dealer can make that happen for him, great.

Oh, and if Brandon is refusing to let Skier's Choice come and look at his boat, I'd have a problem with that. What I heard was he wouldn't bring the boat to Loudon, Tennessee. I'm sure Brandon can correct me if I'm wrong.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-17-2014, 6:52 AM Reply   
Like I said, I highly HIGHLY doubt that they are making him take that boat to Tennessee.
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       03-17-2014, 7:28 AM Reply   
I thought the options he had been offered at this point are clear....1 and 2 and I think its also clear he did not accept either option or this thread would not exist.

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Old    Brian (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       03-17-2014, 8:25 AM Reply   
I'm pretty sure his repair option only involves bringing the boat to the dealer who will make arrangements to send the boat back to the factory for this type of repair job. And you can look at other boat restore threads to see how to separate the top and bottom of the boat. If they put a new hull on the bottom it shouldn't be any different than any other boat out there.

All this talk about getting a replacement boat or loaner boat is kind of pointless. It's nice to talk about what SHOULD be done but the resolution to the situation is spelled out in the warranty itself which I'm sure the purchaser of the boat didn't read but initialed or signed off on a statement of understanding. That's all the law cares about and skiers choice business model used that warranty and it's potential claims as part of it's projected costs for the final product.

What surprises me the most so far is that the dealer has avoided the exchanges back and forth. Did the dealer do a lake test after rigging the boat? Did the dealer make sure the customer was familiar with the operation of the boat? Take the customer on the water to make sure he's happy before signing the papers? Sounds like the answer is no. I wouldn't buy a boat from that dealer at all.
Old    Tim (Tims)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-17-2014, 8:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewok01 View Post
I'm pretty sure his repair option only involves bringing the boat to the dealer who will make arrangements to send the boat back to the factory for this type of repair job. And you can look at other boat restore threads to see how to separate the top and bottom of the boat. If they put a new hull on the bottom it shouldn't be any different than any other boat out there.

All this talk about getting a replacement boat or loaner boat is kind of pointless. It's nice to talk about what SHOULD be done but the resolution to the situation is spelled out in the warranty itself which I'm sure the purchaser of the boat didn't read but initialed or signed off on a statement of understanding. That's all the law cares about and skiers choice business model used that warranty and it's potential claims as part of it's projected costs for the final product.

What surprises me the most so far is that the dealer has avoided the exchanges back and forth. Did the dealer do a lake test after rigging the boat? Did the dealer make sure the customer was familiar with the operation of the boat? Take the customer on the water to make sure he's happy before signing the papers? Sounds like the answer is no. I wouldn't buy a boat from that dealer at all.
Totally agree!!
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 8:56 AM Reply   
From page 2:

Quote:
I am not making these accusations up. I took the boat to the 2nd dealer 3 times for this problem and was told every time
That supra does not pay for lake testing. They told me to keep driving it. Yes!!! That's what they said!
Try different bag configurations with weight and see if it goes away. That's why I kept driving it!
The dealer I bought it from did not call me back 2 times after calling them with the concern so I tool it to the other one.
2 dealers. Nothing was done until I found someone at the Houston boat show and got there email and that's where this nightmare of dealing with so called higher ups in supra begin. **** still a nightmare. And to everyone saying yea just 10 thousand can I borrow please? I bought a boat the 1st of August. Payment is 700 a month. Boat has not worked properly since purchase, no one did anything until I got ahold of a higher up with supra: nothing is still done. And y'all are just saying oh he probably this and expectations this. It's a 98,000 list boat and does not work. I still have and I'm siposed to be ok? I'm not. If anyone has any questions for clarification just ask. Oh and all rick did was called me one time. I had to call the second 5 days later and his answer was you will be dealing with the dealer you bought. The boat from. They own there boats and I can't do any more. No contact since.
Old    Mark Hansen (MJHSupra)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-17-2014, 11:00 AM Reply   
Rusty has it right on most of these posts.

I have experience with litigation on warranty items. I've done the route of hiring lawyers (not on a boat issue). . . . I love all these people huffing and puffing on here telling this person what to do . . . . entertaining - YES, realistic - NO.

1) If you decide to go down the legal path, it will cost $$$. Big $$. More that the $10K for the trades discussed in these posts. Once you start down that path, you will be holding a broken boat for years - until it's settled. So that timeframe of Aug 2013 to Now . . . it will be a drop in the bucket with lawyers and filing court papers. Do you think SC will want to deal with you once lawyers get involved???? The lawyers will tell them not to deal with you until an agreement is made. They would be putting themselves more at risk.
2) For the company, SC, they have a right to inspect and offer to repair/replace.
3) It sounds like the company has reached out to Brandon. Multiple times. A judge or court wants to hear that. If SC did not try to contact this person, that is a whole different story. Courts 'hammer' companies that do not respond to consumers, Because that does not MEET someones expectation is the court to decide. I'm sure all of this is documented in case legal action would move forward. Do you think this is the first time any other of these boat dealers/manf have dealt with a hull issue or defect? Do you think they do not know how to handle this?
4) Wanting the dealer or manufacturer give back money as part of a deal or inconvenience factor? Don't see that happening.
5) As for "time issue" and how people did not get back to you, it's only complaining. SC did contact you. Dealer did contact you. Rick (the pres) did contact you. SC and the dealer did start to work with you . . . . . all the talk about days/months and callbacks and how contacted who, who contacted who first - does not mean SQUAT. It's like the Seinfield episode of the Airing of the Grievances on Festivus Holiday.

I guess the next thing will be someone posting they will sue for court costs as well. Ha Ha Ha.

Yes it would be hard to accept another boat I did not want.


Video of the boat lean - Who cares? Why have to prove that to some people on these boards. Another joke.

Hard for me to understand about not having a LAKE TEST on the boat with the Dealer/Salesperson????? You spend $75-100K, did not lake test and you now you have issues???? WHAT???

Long run which is better for all: avoid the lawyers and courts!!! They benefit the most from these situations.

M-


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Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-17-2014, 11:23 AM Reply   
Anyone notice how everyone defending SC owns a SC product? And many are the guys who post frequently about how much they love Moomba or Supra.

If anyone, and I mean anyone, bought a brand new boat and it was defective first day out and the racks touched the water like was stated, you would have to be a real push over to think that sending it back to the factory to be "repaired" with a new hull wasting several months was a suitable solution. I would say the weakest link in this whole situation is the dealer. But that is not Brandon's problem, it's SC's problem. I agree with Chat's position on this one.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-17-2014, 11:33 AM Reply   
I'm not convinced there's a defect.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-17-2014, 11:39 AM Reply   
LW
Not sure if you are referring to me as one of the people defending SC? Yes I am a Supra owner and a happy one, but by no means am I defending SC. I am just pointing out that he is handling this situation the wrong way. I would say the exact same thing if he owned a MC, Malibu, Centurion, MB, Nautique, etc..... I really do hope he gets his issue resolved, if there is an issue and would stand up for Brandon all day long. The fact is, he may be handling it wrong to get it resolved. That is my stance.
Old    Shane Rice (Shane10p)      Join Date: Jul 2013       03-17-2014, 11:52 AM Reply   
Of course the Supra guys are defending SC , we bought boats from them knowing what reputation they have and spent time demoing the product and believe in it. Just like everyone did when they purchased there boats..... Well almost everyone ....There is always going to be a sense of pride and ownership in your product you choose to spend your hard earned money on and that is a good thing in my opinion .I don't think anyone will dispute the fact that if the boat is defective that it needs to be fixed and resolved between him and SC in a timely matter that is reasonable for both parties. I think a lot of the negative comments or tone of a lot of these posts have been about how Brandon and Mr. Potatoeshack have handled this on a public forum. If he is not getting the support he needs from SC I guess go ahead and blow them up all over every forum you want but that's not the case. There is a process in order to get to a resolution and in my personal opinion from what I have read I don't think Brandon has followed that to this point. You better believe that I would make myself as available as possible to SC and especially to the Pres. Of the company if I was having issue as he is describing . As I stated in my previous post I'm extremely surprised how eager everyone was to advise him to retain legal council. I also work with lawyers in my career and find that things become extremely black and white which can be good and sometimes extremely bad ... Let's not forget what this thread started as, Why should I buy a Supra ?..... I'm sure a lot of lessons will be learned from both sides on this one and hope to hear it has a positive resolution so we can all get back to arguing over Wetsounds vs Exile or Surf gate vs leaning a boat.

- Shane
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 12:05 PM Reply   
Considering the fact that it is noon EST and we have not heard back from Brandon or his friend, it is safe to assume that they are attempting to work out a solution relative to this boat. I really hope we hear that things have worked themselves out!
Old     (nautibouys)      Join Date: Aug 2010       03-17-2014, 12:12 PM Reply   
What I still don't understand is after looking at a 2013 21V and its rack position, how would water not be up over the gunnel in that turn for it to even come close to water hitting the board racks...they are 2+ feet higher than the gunnel. Seems to me it would be flooding the boat first...
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-17-2014, 12:17 PM Reply   
^ I agree
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       03-17-2014, 12:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nautibouys View Post
What I still don't understand is after looking at a 2013 21V and its rack position, how would water not be up over the gunnel in that turn for it to even come close to water hitting the board racks...they are 2+ feet higher than the gunnel. Seems to me it would be flooding the boat first...
I looked up that model yesterday and was trying to figure out the same thing
Old    David Curtis (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2014, 12:24 PM Reply   
I'm pretty sure that skiers choose have become the new MB on wakeworld. Too any people are drinking the koolaide. So what they just started making two good boats ( that's a matter of opinion in my eyes) but nautiques, MC and Malibu have been making the best boats for years and years. Yet now a days on WW if you mention these three companies your considered a rich prick or something of that nature. Supra has a ways to go in order to catch up with the "Big 3". Super and Moomba have always been behind in making there boats nice. It wasn't until people that left Malibu left and started working there did their boat company actually became worth anything but I still would pay 100k for a supra I don't care what any of you say. The way I look at it all of you that are paying that much for supra are not very smart. Supra is and always will lag behind the big 3.

As far as Brandon's situation goes I feel for ya man I hope that It gets fixed and you can somehow get out of the boat and move to a different company that is more reputable. The fact that this boat left the factory like that speaks a lot about SC because every boats should be tested at the factory. And if it was then whoever tested it should be fired immediately.

501 you are right that all the SC people are the ones attacking Brandon and calling him a liar. The people on wakeworld would be bitching two if they were in your situation too but they aren't so all they can do is get mad that your talking bad about their precious skiers choice. I hardly even read wakeworld anymore due to all the trolls and unrealistic people.

Best of luck Brandon and hopefully this doesn't cut into your summer.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-17-2014, 12:29 PM Reply   
"I'm pretty sure that skiers choose have become the new MB on wakeworld. Too any people are drinking the koolaide. So what they just started making two good boats ( that's a matter of opinion in my eyes) but nautiques, MC and Malibu have been making the best boats for years and years. Yet now a days on WW if you mention these three companies your considered a rich prick or something of that nature. Supra has a ways to go in order to catch up with the "Big 3". Super and Moomba have always been behind in making there boats nice. It wasn't until people that left Malibu left and started working there did their boat company actually became worth anything but I still would pay 100k for a supra I don't care what any of you say. The way I look at it all of you that are paying that much for supra are not very smart. Supra is and always will lag behind the big 3.

As far as Brandon's situation goes I feel for ya man I hope that It gets fixed and you can somehow get out of the boat and move to a different company that is more reputable. The fact that this boat left the factory like that speaks a lot about SC because every boats should be tested at the factory. And if it was then whoever tested it should be fired immediately.

501 you are right that all the SC people are the ones attacking Brandon and calling him a liar. The people on wakeworld would be bitching two if they were in your situation too but they aren't so all they can do is get mad that your talking bad about their precious skiers choice. I hardly even read wakeworld anymore due to all the trolls and unrealistic people.

Best of luck Brandon and hopefully this doesn't cut into your summer."



You shouldn't call anyone stupid when your grammar is that awful, just my opinion.

Good to know you'll still pay 100K for a Supra no matter what anyone says though

Last edited by Rusty; 03-17-2014 at 12:32 PM.
Old    David Curtis (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-17-2014, 12:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
You shouldn't call anyone stupid when your grammar is that awful, just my opinion.

Good to know you'll still pay 100K for a Supra no matter what anyone says though
Never claimed that I majored in english nor do I want to. Im glad that you found gramatical errors. I'll leave that to people like you who have no life and probably wont make it far. From the looks of your recent post you have been drinking the koolaid and/or just think you know everything about boats. Brandon should just give you the boat and let you take care of everything. You seem to know how to do everything right.
Old    Tim (Tims)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-17-2014, 12:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
I'm pretty sure that skiers choose have become the new MB on wakeworld. Too any people are drinking the koolaide. So what they just started making two good boats ( that's a matter of opinion in my eyes) but nautiques, MC and Malibu have been making the best boats for years and years. Yet now a days on WW if you mention these three companies your considered a rich prick or something of that nature. Supra has a ways to go in order to catch up with the "Big 3". Super and Moomba have always been behind in making there boats nice. It wasn't until people that left Malibu left and started working there did their boat company actually became worth anything but I still would pay 100k for a supra I don't care what any of you say. The way I look at it all of you that are paying that much for supra are not very smart. Supra is and always will lag behind the big 3.

As far as Brandon's situation goes I feel for ya man I hope that It gets fixed and you can somehow get out of the boat and move to a different company that is more reputable. The fact that this boat left the factory like that speaks a lot about SC because every boats should be tested at the factory. And if it was then whoever tested it should be fired immediately.

501 you are right that all the SC people are the ones attacking Brandon and calling him a liar. The people on wakeworld would be bitching two if they were in your situation too but they aren't so all they can do is get mad that your talking bad about their precious skiers choice. I hardly even read wakeworld anymore due to all the trolls and unrealistic people.

Best of luck Brandon and hopefully this doesn't cut into your summer.
Wow!!! What a post..........

I don't see much attacking going on..... Doubt, because of a lack of clarification, yes. Suggesting a different approach, sure.

Oh, and my last boat was a Bu.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-17-2014, 1:24 PM Reply   
FYI. Brandon and SC have been in contact today. Boy do we have a crazy story that most people will probably never see or hear. I guess if you hear from us again SC didn't do what's right.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 1:26 PM Reply   
I'm assuming you went to film the boat last night rolling over and it either flipped, sank, the hull caved in, or something of that nature.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 1:26 PM Reply   
I just hope you had the camera rolling.
Old    Darrin (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       03-17-2014, 1:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nautibouys View Post
What I still don't understand is after looking at a 2013 21V and its rack position, how would water not be up over the gunnel in that turn for it to even come close to water hitting the board racks...they are 2+ feet higher than the gunnel. Seems to me it would be flooding the boat first...
Bet that thing has a hell of a surf wave. You're not listed untill the racks are in the water
Old    Mark Hansen (MJHSupra)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-17-2014, 1:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
Anyone notice how everyone defending SC owns a SC product? And many are the guys who post frequently about how much they love Moomba or Supra.

If anyone, and I mean anyone, bought a brand new boat and it was defective first day out and the racks touched the water like was stated, you would have to be a real push over to think that sending it back to the factory to be "repaired" with a new hull wasting several months was a suitable solution. I would say the weakest link in this whole situation is the dealer. But that is not Brandon's problem, it's SC's problem. I agree with Chat's position on this one.
The topic is why to buy a Supra or not.

I was looking at a X25 at the boat show and had a great conservation with the Dir of Engineering for Malibu. I own a Supra. I like the brand and I'm happy with my boat. But would be open to all the big companies when buying a new one. My friends own MC and Malibu. I live in Knoxville and see many of all the brands.

Any boat when you spend around $100K and you are having issues with the Dealer not "fixing something" (this major) is your problem. Blame SC all you want.

Why not talk to the manufacturer directly? They are all willing to listen since you just forked-out $75-100K. The phone numbers are published on the web sites.

Defect/Voids - if you do not trust dealer #1 or dealer #2, why not work something out with the plant in Knoxville or AT LEAST contact them prior to all these posts? Sounds like a wild-goose chase for Brandon on the dealer solution/path.

If that much has gone on with any brand, don't you think you have to move to something else? Does anyone think Brandon's Family would be happy or trust Supra unless there was a full $$$ refund plus $$$? That goes back to my realistic comment when people expect companies to "make it right".

M-
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 1:39 PM Reply   
Did you even take the time to read the prior posts? Brandon did reach out to the manufacturer before coming on here.
Old    Brian (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       03-17-2014, 2:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoShack View Post
FYI. Brandon and SC have been in contact today. Boy do we have a crazy story that most people will probably never see or hear. I guess if you hear from us again SC didn't do what's right.

For everyone's piece of mind, and the reputation of the company, good or bad, can you guys at least post if the situation was resolved. While you may not be allowed to list the details, at least give a broad or vague comment that SC either took the boat back for inspection or repair or something. This thread needs closure.
Old    Zack Bale (Fourspeednup)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-17-2014, 3:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoShack View Post
FYI. Brandon and SC have been in contact today. Boy do we have a crazy story that most people will probably never see or hear. I guess if you hear from us again SC didn't do what's right.
Completely irrelevant to the thread subject but I think I just put 2 & 2 together. Do you own the Potato Shack in College Station TX?
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 4:02 PM Reply   
I think we should all do NCAA tourney brackets and the winner gets a sack of potatoes from The Potato Shack.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-17-2014, 4:11 PM Reply   
I'm down for that
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 4:27 PM Reply   
I think we can all agree that potatoes are delicious.
Old    Mark Hansen (MJHSupra)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-17-2014, 4:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Did you even take the time to read the prior posts? Brandon did reach out to the manufacturer before coming on here.
Yea I read all that - starting back in post #103.

Sounds like too much dealer talk (not being able to do something) and not enough with SC - who could actually offer something

Last edited by MJHSupra; 03-17-2014 at 4:34 PM.
Old    Russell (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-17-2014, 5:51 PM Reply   
Curtis - totally up to you, but I don't see why you can't tell us what happened. I understand why Brandon cannot, and why he can't release the video, however, you're not a party to this, and I really want to know what the boat was doing. I currently own a Supra and would be very interested to know what happened last night when you put it through the paces.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 6:54 PM Reply   
Curtis is not going to blow up a deal for his friend just to satiate our curiosity. I'd like for Rick or someone to let us know Brandon's been taken care of though, so we know skiers choice stepped up. It may take a while, but it would be good to know this has been handled. Curtis, if i pm you my address will you send me some potatoes? I love some big russets.
Old    Russell (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-17-2014, 7:04 PM Reply   
I understand, and I would do the same thing, but I am just curious as hell as to what took place last night.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-17-2014, 7:07 PM Reply   
I knew we were never going to see pics or video of wakeboards touching the water (It never happened!)
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-17-2014, 7:38 PM Reply   
I wasted approximately 30 minutes of my life coming here throughout the day wanting to see pics/videos and a conclusion to this. Now we get neither...only on wakeworld.


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Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-17-2014, 7:46 PM Reply   
See? Going on a public forum and airing the laundry doesn't help...or does it?
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-17-2014, 10:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bftskir View Post
See? Going on a public forum and airing the laundry doesn't help...or does it?
Only when you actually pick up the phone when SC calls you directly... I'm don't think that's happened yet.
Old    JR Smith (wakintime)      Join Date: Jul 2011       03-18-2014, 12:39 AM Reply   
I've had 2 Bu VLX.S, a tige, 2 Sangers and an MB. I now have a supra SA450 and the. Quality is top notch. Could have got a BU MXZ for less money and have always loved Malibu but the SA blew me away . Just writing this because having owned all these boats I had never had the president of a company email and call me to welcome me to the family and ask if everything was good like Rick Tinker did. I believe their customer service top notch. Had a couple of questions and Mr. Tinker personally answered them. Skiers Choice is a great company and I believe they will fix or replace one of their boats. Just by 2 cents. Any boat company or car company for that matter have had lemons. It's not just Skiers Choice. I would say that about any boat manufacturer . I just really like there customer service and open door access to people like Rick Tinker

Last edited by wakintime; 03-18-2014 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Grammar
Old    Chris Hernandez (CHern5972)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-18-2014, 5:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickt View Post
Brandon has been contacted by our customer service department this evening to again try to arrange a return of the boat for examination. He did not answer. I apologize again for the life this situation has taken and for our part in that. I contacted Brandon in mid of feb when the non selling dealer in the area contacted me after he met Brandon at the Houston boat show and they discussed his boat and the issues he described. Apparently the dealer and Brandon could not reach an agreement on a trade though they both worked toward that at the time. After mine and brandon' s conversation regarding the concerns he had for the boat, we first discussed a trade with his selling dealer on an SA,which was his preferences vs the boat being brought back to the factory and it be repaired(if the transaction was completed the dealer would have returned the boat and we would have evaluated it). This transaction did not get completed for reasons that the dealer and the consumer are aware of. I have contacted the dealer who was working with Brandon on this situation multiple times during the last three to four weeks. The response has been that they are working on it. Only recently did the dealer answer that were not able to reach a conclusion. At which time, our customer service department has begun to reach out to Brandon directly to schedule a return of the boat. It is our hope to bring the boat back under warranty and examine the issue and resolve it.

I am not sure responding to this thread from my standpoint adds further value and probably only makes it worse and for that i apologize. We are not perfect and I am sure we have made mistakes in handling this situation. But we stand behind our product and our warranty and will make sure those elements are honored.


Looks like they are trying to help get this resolved to me. Ive owned way to many boats to list but, SC is by far the best at customer service. Atleast in my area. Hope this getss resolved.
Old    Matthew Hibbing (mhibbing)      Join Date: Nov 2013       03-18-2014, 9:00 AM Reply   
Enough said.....
Attached Images
 
Old    Matthew Hibbing (mhibbing)      Join Date: Nov 2013       03-18-2014, 9:01 AM Reply   
oh but just in case you want more
Attached Images
  
Old    Connor (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       03-18-2014, 9:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhibbing View Post
oh but just in case you want more
Matthew is that top pic Lake Austin?
Old    Matthew Hibbing (mhibbing)      Join Date: Nov 2013       03-18-2014, 10:12 AM Reply   
Yeah one of the pictures is on lake austin and the other two are in Skiatook, OK
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-19-2014, 9:30 AM Reply   
For a thread with like 12,0000 views, that's ended abruptly.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-19-2014, 9:47 AM Reply   
The settlement is top secret.
Old    Zack Bale (Fourspeednup)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-19-2014, 11:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
For a thread with like 12,0000 views, that's ended abruptly.
You're telling me! My friend is from College Station, TX and raves about Potato Shack. He wants to set one up here in AZ near ASU.
Old     (nautibouys)      Join Date: Aug 2010       03-19-2014, 2:38 PM Reply   
I feel used...and dirty!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-19-2014, 2:41 PM Reply   
I agree all that and then nothing. Obviously the guys boat must be getting fixed to his satisfaction or he'd be on here telling us about dragging board racks in the water for 40 hours. I still would have to see that to believe it.

So I guess it will go down in history with the phrase…"how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?" The world may never know!!!
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-19-2014, 5:23 PM Reply   
Wow. Can someone edit a picture of a supra with board racks dipped in the water onto the epic photoshopped pic representing the best threads in ww history?

If all we are going to get out of this is 3 pictures of surfing I think adding it to the ww history photoshop is highly appropriate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Old    D. Cooper (dcooper)      Join Date: Mar 2005       03-19-2014, 6:51 PM Reply   
Oh yes, this needs to be added to the Photoshop Wakeworld history for sure!!!
Old    Lee Griffith (LeeG23)      Join Date: Feb 2013       03-19-2014, 7:03 PM Reply   
This is by far the most interesting thread I've ever read! I'd check it in the middle of the night waiting for this video!! We all need some form of closure!!!
Old    James Jackson (jamespjackson95)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-19-2014, 7:27 PM Reply   
I gotta say I spent more than couple hours reading this entire forum a few days ago. Very interesting.


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Old    Trayson Harmon (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       03-19-2014, 11:00 PM Reply   
I found a pic of the boat!

Remember, dangerous boat is dangerous!!!

Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-19-2014, 11:41 PM Reply   
Omg...the voids!!!
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       03-20-2014, 1:39 PM Reply   
Such void
Attached Images
 

Last edited by phathom; 03-20-2014 at 1:44 PM.
Old     (nautibouys)      Join Date: Aug 2010       03-20-2014, 2:05 PM Reply   
Does Supra include seat belts in their boats if board rack dippin is really possible. The picture above furthers my disbelief in a board rack being able to touch the water. Maybe this whole thread blows up on April 1st....

Last edited by nautibouys; 03-20-2014 at 2:05 PM. Reason: spelling
Old    Mark Hansen (MJHSupra)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-20-2014, 7:13 PM Reply   
By the time we hit 15K views, I will drive over to the Supra plant and demand an answer for the WW community . . . maybe by that time that low-rider boat will be back in Knoxville and I can get a free ride.

M-
Old    Clayton Gilliland (cgilliland)      Join Date: Dec 2013       03-24-2014, 8:03 AM Reply   
where can I buy one!?

I am gonna miss this thread. Stick a fork in it.

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