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Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-07-2014, 7:23 PM Reply   
Ya the boat would dive or fall to the side of the turn. Craziest thing I ever felt. It would literally drag the boards in the water.
Old    Russ Weber (Boonejeepin)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-07-2014, 8:10 PM Reply   
As stated in the video. This can happen with any manufacturer. None are perfect. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Skier's product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAJ7xr386LE&sns=em
Old    Jeremy (JEr)      Join Date: Sep 2010       03-07-2014, 10:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoShack View Post
Ya the boat would dive or fall to the side of the turn. Craziest thing I ever felt. It would literally drag the boards in the water.
I just want to chime in here and say that Curtis i think that you should probably keep quiet and stop bashing the brand. If we go back through your posts it sound like you and your friend have gone about things the complete wrong way. You say that the boat went out 15 times before the dealer took the boat for a water test, i find this hard to believe, sounds to me that your friend didnt want to wait for the dealer to follow their procedures and to tell you the truth if you picked up a product from me before i could test it i wouldnt be to fast to act when you complain of a problem. And sure i believe that there could be defects in the hull as dude boats are hand made. Next think about the 10k its going to take to replace the boat. I am sure that the dealer is going to try and give him a new boat but probably doesnt have a boat of exact same spec sitting around as the one that is damaged. The boat they are offering him is probably worth 10k more, i am sure they will give him the value of the boat that he paid for it.

Buddy i own a SC product and will stand behind them everyday of the week as the quality of the boat and customer service is top notch. Sorry to your friend that he got a "lemon" but dont come on here and continue to throw out stories that are all here say. You are getting the story from your friend, i am sure you are not there dealing with him, the dealer and SC. Leave it for your friend to fill us in i am tired of slowly seeing you change your tone.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-08-2014, 5:05 AM Reply   
Very informative video Russ Weber. Thank you !
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-08-2014, 5:32 AM Reply   
@JEr. I have never bashed SC or the dealers involved. If you go back and look at the posted I never mentioned any dealers name. I also have never bashed SC. There is an issue with the boat and I have just stated the facts as I have seen them.

As for the service manager at one of the dealerships he took the boat to. I personally herd him tell Brandon there is nothing wrong it's normal for boats to have some cavitation.

I also think the quality that SC has it top notch. However the customer service you talk about has not been seen in this situation.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-08-2014, 5:36 AM Reply   
And I am not getting the stories second hand. I was with him when he bought it, with him a number times at each dealership. I was in the boat when they finally did the water test. So my opinion is no hear say. Now when it comes to the trading in on a new boat yes that is all hear say as I do not get involved in my friends finances.
Old    David Langston (rdlangston13)      Join Date: Feb 2011       03-08-2014, 7:32 AM Reply   
It seems like these voids are not even noticed unless you tap on the hull or ht something and the gel coat breaks...I am having a hard time understanding how this causes the boat to lay over while turning so that the board racks are in the water


Sent from my iPhone
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-08-2014, 8:07 AM Reply   
If I remember correctly. They said the voids are 3 feet long on both sides. So I'm guessing when he turns they compress in and cause it to dive to that side. But I'm not sure why it dives like that.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-08-2014, 8:34 AM Reply   
No pictures means it did not happen.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-08-2014, 8:59 AM Reply   
Are you guys out driving it like a jetski or something. Some cavitation is normal on some boats. I am not sure te 22v hull was ever known for being amazing fron a handling standpoint.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-08-2014, 3:14 PM Reply   
Considering gel coat is not known for its flexibility, thats not possible. If it was so thin to allow enough flex to create a large enough hook to pull the hull over like you are stating, after flexing in and out a few times(at most) that spot would crack if not split wide open. What you are describing is just not possible. The hull isn't made of some flexible rubber like material. Gel coat is pretty rigid, hence the reason we see cracks in it. Fiberglass does have some flex, but not much. Certainly not anywhere close to enough to do what you are describing. I have built a few small hydro's and resin coated the wood and put a layer or 2 of glass on them. In the larger panels where the wood flexes crossing waves or what not the glass/ resin will crack. Basically if what you are describing happened that hull would have opened up like a pop can the first trip out.

Sounds to me like a better guess might be there was inadvertently a hook built into the hull.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-08-2014, 6:33 PM Reply   
That could be. Because you can't see and cracks under the boat. The term voids came from the dealer.
Old    Mark Hansen (MJHSupra)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-12-2014, 7:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoShack View Post
Option 1
They want take the boat cut the bottom half of the hull out and put a new bottom hull on it. They said it should take 5 months.
Option2
Trade boat in on different boat. Spend $10,000.00 to do so.
LMAO.


BTW
The reason he kept taking the boat out after realizing something was wrong was because the dealer told us to. They wanted him to try different ballast set ups.
For OPT#2, is that $10K on a 2014 SC350 hull?

Is your buddy looking for Option#3? If so, what is that?

Just curious . . . . sucks when things are wrong on that big of a purchase.

Mark

Last edited by MJHSupra; 03-12-2014 at 7:42 PM.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-13-2014, 7:23 AM Reply   
I do believe the $10k more was for a 2013 Demo SA350.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-13-2014, 7:45 AM Reply   
well, a 2013 Demo is definitely worth at least 10k more than any 22v.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-13-2014, 12:13 PM Reply   
^ I agree that it's worth $10k more. But it's still $10k that he would have to come up with.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-13-2014, 2:47 PM Reply   
I will give you the $10K, make the trade. Then we sell the SA he gets and I get to keep the return. Win win.... I turn my $10K into $20K instantly.... Maybe even more.... and your buddy gets full market value back on his.... Actually he will probably really like the SA and not want to sell it and then I will be screwed!
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-13-2014, 3:05 PM Reply   
That's 10K between a SA350 and a 22V with a hull that will need to be re-done as well. Not exactly helping its value. I think 10K between those two is a smoking deal. If he expects an even trade on a 22V with a hull issue to an SA then he has unrealistic expectations.

Last edited by Rusty; 03-13-2014 at 3:09 PM.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-13-2014, 3:38 PM Reply   
Ya I agree. $10k to go from a 22 to a SA350 is a great deal. Everything is better about that boat. Resale will always be about 10k for the next 10 years I'd say.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-13-2014, 4:24 PM Reply   
Tyler I think Brandon would take you up on your offer.
Old    Mark Hansen (MJHSupra)      Join Date: Jan 2014       03-13-2014, 7:44 PM Reply   
Hmmm . . . . at 10K, if it was a demo, it should have some pretty good stuff on it. I would ask for the new Swell System and send that 22SSV packing to some other person to worry about. That was a new design in 2013 and the new wake system should fit. But I'm not a dealer nor the person shelling out 10K more. Maybe they will throw in a free hat?

I've had the 'lemon car', my best move was to get that dang thing OUT OF SIGHT and try to get it OUT OF MIND.

If you got the boat fixed, a normal reaction would be looking over your should for the next thing to happen. It may be fine after the repair and not have other stuff breaking. But if not, you would wonder why you did not get rid of it when you had the chance.

9 months is long time to deal with this. Summer will be here soon.

M-

Last edited by MJHSupra; 03-13-2014 at 7:49 PM.
Old    Brandon Strope (Dizzyfoot60)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-14-2014, 5:24 AM Reply   
Diggs yes I would!
Old    Brandon Strope (Dizzyfoot60)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-14-2014, 5:44 AM Reply   
The whole damn thing is unfortunate.... I am not making these accusations up. I took the boat to the 2nd dealer 3 times for this problem and was told every time
That supra does not pay for lake testing. They told me to keep driving it. Yes!!! That's what they said!
Try different bag configurations with weight and see if it goes away. That's why I kept driving it!
The dealer I bought it from did not call me back 2 times after calling them with the concern so I tool it to the other one.
2 dealers. Nothing was done until I found someone at the Houston boat show and got there email and that's where this nightmare of dealing with so called higher ups in supra begin. **** still a nightmare. And to everyone saying yea just 10 thousand can I borrow please? I bought a boat the 1st of August. Payment is 700 a month. Boat has not worked properly since purchase, no one did anything until I got ahold of a higher up with supra: nothing is still done. And y'all are just saying oh he probably this and expectations this. It's a 98,000 list boat and does not work. I still have and I'm siposed to be ok? I'm not. If anyone has any questions for clarification just ask. Oh and all rick did was called me one time. I had to call the second 5 days later and his answer was you will be dealing with the dealer you bought. The boat from. They own there boats and I can't do any more. No contact since. So yea just spend 10 grand no problem lol easy to spend someone else's money huh
Old    Brandon Strope (Dizzyfoot60)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-14-2014, 5:44 AM Reply   
Sorry typing from my iPhone
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 6:05 AM Reply   
Good lord, this is horrible. I remember a long time ago I owned an XStar that had a problem with the interior. It was out of warranty and MC stepped up helped me out by giving me a new interior. I just had to pay for the install. I'll never forget that.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-14-2014, 8:03 AM Reply   
Can you ship the new SA up to Portland? I surely can't just send some guy in Texas $10K that I have never met before. Can you shoot me details on what you owe on your boat? Can you shoot me details on the options and hours on the SA you would get in swap? Shoot it all over PM to me
I think there is still more to this story, but heck I am always down for a good opportunity!! I kind of feel like I am a shark on shark tank and see some opportunity, but I need to learn more about it.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-14-2014, 8:53 AM Reply   
PM dizzfoot60.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 9:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzyfoot60 View Post
The whole damn thing is unfortunate.... I am not making these accusations up. I took the boat to the 2nd dealer 3 times for this problem and was told every time
That supra does not pay for lake testing. They told me to keep driving it. Yes!!! That's what they said!
Try different bag configurations with weight and see if it goes away. That's why I kept driving it!
The dealer I bought it from did not call me back 2 times after calling them with the concern so I tool it to the other one.
2 dealers. Nothing was done until I found someone at the Houston boat show and got there email and that's where this nightmare of dealing with so called higher ups in supra begin. **** still a nightmare. And to everyone saying yea just 10 thousand can I borrow please? I bought a boat the 1st of August. Payment is 700 a month. Boat has not worked properly since purchase, no one did anything until I got ahold of a higher up with supra: nothing is still done. And y'all are just saying oh he probably this and expectations this. It's a 98,000 list boat and does not work. I still have and I'm siposed to be ok? I'm not. If anyone has any questions for clarification just ask. Oh and all rick did was called me one time. I had to call the second 5 days later and his answer was you will be dealing with the dealer you bought. The boat from. They own there boats and I can't do any more. No contact since. So yea just spend 10 grand no problem lol easy to spend someone else's money huh
Maybe if you didn't want an SA it wouldn't be an issue but you apparently do, so yeah there's going to be a difference in price. If you would be ok with another boat that's the same model as yours then I'm sure the difference would be minimal. The president of the entire company called you, and tried to help. Try getting that from MC or BU. If you don't think he has told those dealers to do everything they can to help then you are fooling yourself, Supra can't do anything but help the dealer since the dealer owns all the boats on their lot and that's what you're choosing from. And they are definitely helping if the difference in trade between your 22V with a hull issue and a new SA is only 10K.

Last edited by Rusty; 03-14-2014 at 9:22 AM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 10:36 AM Reply   
Look, if there is a manufacturing defect with this boat, Supra absolutely can and should help this guy out. If there's not a defect, and he's just unhappy, then no, Supra is not obligated to do anything.
Old    Brandon Strope (Dizzyfoot60)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-14-2014, 11:01 AM Reply   
There is a defect. The boat has a severe cavitation issue and the boat ROLLS yea falls on it's side and the board racks drag the water. When I had the boat tested after taking matters into my own hands the man who test drove it his mouth was wide open and said oh my god.
The boat was looked at, measurements where taken. They said there is a problem with the hull. The hull needs to be replaced. We need the boat to replace the whole hull. I did not buy a used boat I bought a new one. I'm not interested in having my hull replaced. They said it would take up to 6 months to repair. So let's see. 7 months of having a 100,000 dollar boat that I've paid on that does not work and now 6 more months to replace the hull!?
Old    Chance Alex (calexan)      Join Date: Dec 2008       03-14-2014, 11:06 AM Reply   
Boat leaning so much the board racks drag.... Sounds like my kind of surfing lean!
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-14-2014, 11:09 AM Reply   
Chatt
Not sure if you have been watching the thread, but they have offered to help out by putting a new hull on the boat or allowing him to step up to an SA for $10K if he does not want to wait for that. That is where we are as far as I know..... Options are on the table for them, but does not look like they (the boat owner) have responded and done anything. None of us know any more than that. The rest is just speculation....

If there truly is an issue with the boat. That sucks, but reality is sometimes things could happen with any manufacturer and looks like they are stepping up to help out. I have seen issues with all major brands out there at one point or another. I know the guys at Skiers Choice would cause they are a very stand up company. If what we are all reading on this thread on the interweb is accurate, they have given him two options. I know what I would do... The SA is worth way more than his 22 is, so he should take that boat in on trade and pay the $10K. If he can't afford the 10K and wants his boat back, they have offered to fix it. If he does the trade, they will then take his boat back in trade and fix it. Sounds like anyway.... He even has a private investor willing to fund him the $10K for any proceeds because for that $10K he is getting about $30K more of a boat.....

Would be interested in knowing how he is financially on his current boat. Upside down or what? If he is upside down then yeah it sucks, have them fix the boat or roll that negative equity into the next boat if he can. He would certainly make it up in the difference of value in the new boat. If he is not upside down on it, then he has a smoking opportunity to jump into one of the sweetest boats on the market right now for very little money.

This is all speculation from reading on this tread. I have not spoken to anyone at SC or anyone else. Just what I am summing.....
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-14-2014, 11:11 AM Reply   
Whoops... looks like my post came in late after he responded.... New info.... if you really paid $100K for the boat. I don't believe that though.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 11:12 AM Reply   
Supra has offered to replace the hull which is what the warranty states. He already said he doesn't want that, he wants a new boat but not the same model which wouldn't be a big deal if he was willing to take another 22V but he doesn't. He wants the new SA.

It's like buying a new car with a defect, the company offers to replace it, you say no I want that new model more expensive car that just came out but I want it for the same price as what you're giving me in trade for my car with the defect. Let's not forget as well that his 22V will have to be fixed and resold by that same dealer.

Supra is doing more than it should already with the president calling him personally and the dealer offering him a really good deal on a new SA. If he can't spend the money between the two models then he should see what the difference another 22V would be, which I'm sure why that wasn't ok with him in the first place? I would bet it's a lot less than 10K.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 11:21 AM Reply   
Unfortunately, his options are not all that great. First, he says he is paying $700 per month for the boat already. If what is he is saying is true (I'm assuming here), the boat is unsafe to use and he is paying a bunch of money for a huge headache already. Now, under option one, he has to give the boat back and pay $700 a month for six months for no boat? Doesn't seem exactly fair. That's what, $4,200 and a bunch of depreciation, for nothing? Hmmmm, not exactly "fair."

Second, he has to come out of pocket another $10k? Yes, it's a nicer boat, but $10k is $10k. If he doesn't have it, he doesn't have it. Maybe he can't finance that much. Sounds like he can't afford to pay it out of pocket. And, what, someone on here is considering offering to pay $10k, so that makes option two feasible? Hmmm, I'm pretty sure what was offered was that someone would pitch in $10k only if when the new boat comes in it would immediately be sold and the investor gets to retain any profit over and above the op's initial investment in the first boat. Well, does that mean the op gets all of his interest back too - credited against the sales price of the SA? What about credit for insurance, gas and other expenses that he has "invested" in the original base boat purchase. There are a lot of moving parts, and my suspicion is that when pen met paper, that $10k investment would not end up being made. I know I wouldn't trust putting $10k into someone's pocket in an investment that I'd have to take a second position on. What if the op does the deal and then never makes a payment? The boat will go into default, be repossessed and then sold at foreclosure for what, probably exactly what is owed on it if you're lucky, and guess what happens to that $10k investment? Poof! Gone. Game, set, match.

So, back to square one. We don't even know if this guy can obtain conventional financing on an SA, much less whether he can afford the monthly payment, and maybe if he was going to spend $10 more than he paid for the ssv, he'd have bought a BU, CC or MC. I mean he's being put in a box. Yes, the price is nice, but no one wants to be forced into anything and no one wants to wait and make payments on something they can't use.

What he should do is just lemon law the dang boat and get his money back.
Old    Brandon Strope (Dizzyfoot60)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-14-2014, 11:25 AM Reply   
So 76,000 I paid for mine, they want to charge me 10,000 more for a demo boat with 60 hours. It's blue and white, sorry not my colors of choice and no options besides a bow bag. That's a grand total of 86,000 for the slow ones like me . No thanks due to the fact that I have seen new sa 350 on sale for 79,000! I don't think I'm out if line here people!? My payment is 700 now and my new payment will be almost 900! Chime in please I would love to hear some opinion on if you where in the same position. I think it's out of line for a (sorry we will sell you a new boat though!!!!)
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 11:31 AM Reply   
They can't give you what you paid for your boat in trade...do you not know how a dealership works? They can either go retail to retail or wholesale to wholesale normally. You want them to give you full pop on your boat that has a hull defect and then discount an SA as well. Good luck with that, but that's not how the world works. 10K between those two is a deal, if you don't think so then I'm sorry but it's the truth. That dealer is no doubt taking a loss whether you want to believe it or not.

Also, why does it HAVE to be an SA? Why not see if they have a 22V at a dealership?

Also, every SA comes with 900 pounds of hard tank ballast so it definitely has that, and if it has a bow bag then it also has the bags in the rear as well. So you have 2200 pounds. And by no options, you mean it still comes with the 4 tower speakers, bimini, board racks and other standard features on a Supra? Yeah that sounds pretty loaded to me.

Last edited by Rusty; 03-14-2014 at 11:36 AM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 11:38 AM Reply   
You should post a video of the boat laying over on its side and of the purported defects.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-14-2014, 11:43 AM Reply   
Assuming what you are telling us is correct, and there is actually a defect in the boat (those are assumptions that my following comments are based upon; if the boat is not defective, then my comments are irrelevant) you probably out to check out the lemon law in your state to see if it applies to boats. Many states restrict the time that you can lemon law a boat or car. You probably want to look into that.

Last edited by chattwake; 03-14-2014 at 11:46 AM.
Old    Shane Rice (Shane10p)      Join Date: Jul 2013       03-14-2014, 12:07 PM Reply   
Yep I agree with Chattwake I think we would all love to see video of this thing laying down. I'm gonna chime in with the obvious here since you seem to be airing your financial situation on a forum ...... If you can't afford 86k then you probably can't afford 76k .... Which is why you have a 700 dollar payment. Skiers choice is doing everything and more you have asked of them , fix boat yep agreed to do that is it an ideal time frame nope , offer up new boat that is superior to yours in every way for 10k more ! Gee wish I would have bought a defective 22v last season..... Good luck you have a lot of great resources on here who have worked with a lot of boat manufactures and owned a lot of boats might be time to take some of there advise and stop typing.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 12:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Assuming what you are telling us is correct, and there is actually a defect in the boat (those are assumptions that my following comments are based upon; if the boat is not defective, then my comments are irrelevant) you probably out to check out the lemon law in your state to see if it applies to boats. Many states restrict the time that you can lemon law a boat or car. You probably want to look into that.
When the company is offering to completely replace the hull after they were informed of these issues (they didn't know until the dealer informed them and then the president personally called him and also reached out to him on here) then how does a lemon law come into play? Sounds like they're doing all they can legally to fix this but he wants a new more expensive boat for the same price. Not much they can do when someone has that unrealistic of an expectation.
Old    Trapper (canucked)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-14-2014, 12:19 PM Reply   
From what I read in this thread Brandon, in my opinion, is getting screwed bigtime. (assuming the circumstances and "offer" brought forward is accurate).

I would expect nothing less than Supra driving a new boat to my house and hooking onto this giant $80k turd and taking it away along with a major apology.

The 10K difference doesn't even come close to the lost opportunity cost (for not having my new boat an enitre season) not to mention all of the additional unrecoverable expenditures and headaches.

Given i'm headed to the boat show after work, i'm subscribed to this thread bigtime.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 12:24 PM Reply   
If he would accept another 22V, they probably would do that. But he doesn't, he wants a new boat that is much more expensive. That is where the 10K is from.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-14-2014, 12:24 PM Reply   
Has anyone said it's unsafe to use?...there would be liability issues for the deep pockets if there is such a defect.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 12:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bftskir View Post
Has anyone said it's unsafe to use?...there would be liability issues for the deep pockets if there is such a defect.
How? Yes, there was a defect but the manufacturer has now been informed and is offering to replace it. This must be the first boat ever with a defect judging by the reactions of people on here.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       03-14-2014, 12:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
You should post a video of the boat laying over on its side and of the purported defects.
I have a few thoughts here.

1. Did you never test drive the boat? Seems like this issue should have been discovered long before purchase. I would never buy a boat (new or used) without a lake test.

2. I can tell you right now (and I don't mean this as brand bashing AT ALL), that if I saw proof that this was happening to the boat (the erratic and exaggerated leaning), I would be immediately turned off by this entire story. For the moment, I can only take the word of "some guy on the internet". Shock us a little bit!

3. If number 2 comes to fruition, I think that posting the video here and letting the whole internet see the outcome should push Supra/SC to get you a faster resolution.

4. IMO, Supra should buy the boat back from the dealership. The dealership doesn't have a ton of options. They could refund you and then eat the 6 months to get it fixed, but they may not have the capital to make that happen, especially if they don't sell you another boat. If they do sell you another boat, they're still going to want to make some profit on it, since now they're going to need to sit on this boat for 7 months and lose the interest they pay on their floor plan.

Bottom line, Supra ****ed the boat up. Now they're putting the onus on the dealership and the buyer to eat the inconvenience and cost of making it right by doing the bare minimum. That looks really bad for them.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       03-14-2014, 12:42 PM Reply   
This is crazy!! I would be going nuts if this happened to me. Why will it take so long to replace the hull. Does it take 6 months to build a new boat. Does deconstructing yours and then rebuilding really take that long? Supra should step uo and say they will cover all payments during replacement.
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 12:43 PM Reply   
Supra has offered to replace the boat....how does this look bad on them? If Brandon would accept another 22V, this story would be a non-issue. However, he doesn't want the same model boat, he wants something much more expensive and expects the dealer and manufacturer to make that happen.

If I bought a car with a defect, I wouldn't expect a new model and more expensive replacement car, I would expect a new car but of the same model. Not a completely different more expensive one and expect there to be no charge.

If Supra had said they can't replace it or wanted to charge him to replace it then yeah, that looks bad. However, they've offered to take it back and fix it, and I'm sure if he was open to having a replacment boat of the same model then I'm sure they would make that happen with little to no cost to Brandon.

His expectations in this scenario just are unrealistic.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       03-14-2014, 12:45 PM Reply   
Yeah I agree with canuck, Supra and the dealership is f'n this guy! They already made their money on this guy by selling him a hunk of crap! Now they want to make some more money by charging him a $10k more for a demo SA! No way! What's that SA cost supra to actually build? $50k?

I think Supra needs to eat this thing and give this guy a new boat!

And I don't believe they even make his boat anymore so the only logical thing to do would be to replace with the equivalent. And why should he take a used boat? He bought a new boat last year and has never had a chance to "enjoy" only pay for!


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Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 12:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
Yeah I agree with canuck, Supra and the dealership is f'n this guy! They already made their money on this guy by selling him a hunk of crap! Now they want to make some more money by charging him a $10k more for a demo SA! No way! What's that SA cost supra to actually build? $50k?

I think Supra needs to eat this thing and give this guy a new boat!

And I don't believe they even make his boat anymore so the only logical thing to do would be to replace with the equivalent. And why should he take a used boat? He bought a new boat last year and has never had a chance to "enjoy" only pay for!


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There are still new 2013 22Vs for sale. So the "equivalent" boat is a 22V, not an SA because that's a completely different boat. And if he paid 76K for his 22V like he said then they didn't make much since that boat retails for around 100K.
Old    Ron (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       03-14-2014, 1:04 PM Reply   
rusty where did he say that he wouldn't accept a NEW 22v?


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Old    Darrin (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       03-14-2014, 1:11 PM Reply   
If this story is true as stated Supra should eat the 10K. Small price in the big picture. Considering the time the boat has been unusable it would be fair compensation and definitely less than legal costs should it escalate further. It’s a write off anyway if coded properly.

Brandon - my $.02 is post the video (I think everyone wants to see it) of your rack dragging on every boat / wake site possible and call your attorney. Why have you waited this long?
Old    Rusty (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       03-14-2014, 1:20 PM Reply   
Earlier in the thread when he said offer #2 is for a demo 2013 SA, not a comparable 22V. I inferred he didn't want another 22V from that info. If he is open to accepting a new 22V then I doubt this would be an issue
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-14-2014, 1:24 PM Reply   
Cabledog -I can't disagree more.... If there indeed is a true issue here and sounds like there is, the last place I would be is airing all this on a web forum. As a last resort yes, but legally a thread like this is not the way to go about it. I think any attorney would say the same. Chatt.....
I agree that if you have exhausted other avenues of a remedy and no result, I would do the same to try and get people to notice and do something, but if it were me, I would not be hitting the forums. Only works to anger both parties more and serve for slander/libel or litigation issues later....

I have a hunch and could be way off..... I have a feeling that he might be so upside down in this loan that the lender won't lend more on a new boat and won't let him get a new loan on another boat whether it is equal or more? There has got to be more to this with that X factor that we don't know about....

Either way I really hope you get this resolved Brandon. You are dragging Supra's name through the mud on it. If it were me, it would make me less likely to want to work a resolution with you behind closed doors, but I doubt SC works like that. They probably are not spiteful like I am. I have worked with them on many boats and have never had issues working with them on issues or heard of anyone and I know they would stand at the plate on any issues. I really do hope you work it out. Good luck to you man.

Last edited by tyler97217; 03-14-2014 at 1:31 PM.
Old    Darrin (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       03-14-2014, 1:31 PM Reply   
I’m saying that I want to see the video and since all this dirty laundry is already aired in what I agree should have been a private matter we’re way past worrying about posting on a forum. Not the way I would have handled it necessarily but the damage is done. If this was my boat buying experience I would have brought in legal counsel long ago.

I'm really bored at work today....
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-14-2014, 1:33 PM Reply   
I am bored today too and can't stop watching the forums..... fun stuff lately. Lots of brand bashing going on in other threads too. Gotta love WakeWorld!!!!!!! Can't get enough!
Old    Darrin (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       03-14-2014, 1:41 PM Reply   
I know huh, between this one and the Moomba Axis fanboy fight club I can’t stop checking for replies. I’m going to give it another half hour and call it a week.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-14-2014, 2:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler97217 View Post
I am bored today too and can't stop watching the forums..... fun stuff lately. Lots of brand bashing going on in other threads too. Gotta love WakeWorld!!!!!!! Can't get enough!
No kidding. You should probably return your SC. I bet it has voids in the hull.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-14-2014, 2:29 PM Reply   
This whole thread is crazy....... I cannot believe the SC has not just purchased this boat back for the original price. I actually thought the owner was exaggerating the defect and the lack of customer service he had received. Especially when the pres of SC posted in this thread (before Brandon, himself, had explained).... Now, after we get the story from the actual horses mouth, we don't here from a dealer, or SC with any defense.

I had a new boat with a defect, once. It was a touchscreen issue not showing correct ballast levels, and slow screen changes. After a couple updates, it didn't improve much. The boat company was made aware of the fact that both me, and my dealer, felt that this system was not performing like it should, and that we couldn't wait longer for the software company to fix the issue. This was a TINY issue!! My ballast still worked fine, but my gauges were just never right....... The boat company gave me three choices. Option #1) we will get this issue fixed if you can give us more time. You can use any boat on the dealer lot until we do. Option #2- As long you give our boats one more try, we will refund 100% of the purchase price and take this boat back (this is after a whole season of use and 120hrs on the boat). Option #3- We will depreciate the value of this boat at a rate of $11.00 per engine hour used, deduct that from the price paid, take the boat back, and hope you will give us another try someday..... That is barely $1300.00 they would have taken if I went to another brand. THAT is customer service on a 100k toy.

I can't believe that Brandon has not been refunded. That is what should happen. No way in hell I would wait 6 months for a defect repair on a brand new boat!! As for the SA, it is worth more, so I feel that is a fair-ish deal. However, a full refund of purchase price is what should be on the table. Then Brandon can make his own decision.... This boat was brand new! It's not like it had a common part break after a season of use, or something...
Old    Darrin (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       03-14-2014, 3:06 PM Reply   
^^^ True customer service. share the brand Eric. Thats who I want to buy my next boat from.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       03-14-2014, 5:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabledog View Post
^^^ True customer service. share the brand Eric. Thats who I want to buy my next boat from.
Was MC. It was one of their 2012 touchscreen nightmare boats. A lot of guys got similar deals as me. And MC bent over backwards to get a ton of customers into a new 2013 with Murphy controls. I am not sure everyone got the same deal, but I think everyone got a deal that they were very happy with...... Depending on the type of touchscreen issue, and the condition/treatment of the used boat. They did eventually fix the software for the 12s, but swapped out a ton of people into a new 2013. IMO, it was a very generous move on their part.
Old    Eric B (chillaxin)      Join Date: Jun 2012       03-14-2014, 8:07 PM Reply   
For all of you guys raving that supra should do more, step back a second and think this through. The owner of SC came on here and addressed this personally. Now there is nothing from SC. His dealer gave him two options, neither of which seems like it's backed by SC. I am going to go out on a limb and say that SC doesn't feel like this is their issue to resolve. Now why would that be you ask? If this happened to me and the dealer told me to go back out and keep testing, you better effing believe that I would have video of the board racks dragging in the water! I would be willing to bet that a huge majority of any of us would. I mean good grief who doesn't have a video camera on their cell phone? I said it before and I will say it again. There is more to the story.
Old    Rick Tinker (rickt)      Join Date: May 2002       03-14-2014, 9:32 PM Reply   
Brandon,

John, our customer service manager has tried to reach you on multiple occasions at the number you left with me. We have tried on multiple occasions to have the boat scheduled for return to the factory so we can determine what the issue is, what caused it and determine a solution. We really need to inspect the boat.

Yes, our dealer, with financial support from the factory, offered a trade to one of his SA's in stock, as you had expressed a desire to do this. Apparently, that transaction did not come to completion, I am not sure what went wrong with that. I will leave that between you and the dealer as to why.

Most importantly, I apologize again for the frustration of this situation on what should be a happy event in your life. I also apologize for having to use this forum to communicate. My email is rtinker@skierschoice.com and you already have my personal cell phone

Regards,

Rick Tinker
Old    Russell (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-14-2014, 9:47 PM Reply   
I agree with Chatwake, and I think you should look into the lemon law. Just Google lemon law boat attorneys in Texas and that could start you on your path. You could also call the Texas Bar Association to see if they have a referral. You should think about doing it ASAP as there most likely is a time limit on taking action.

A quick Google search found: http://www.kahnandassociates.com/tex...n_law_faqs.php

I would help you if you were in my area, but I am only licensed in Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Old    Russell (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-14-2014, 9:55 PM Reply   
Brandon - do you have video? If so, please post it (or a link to it).
Old    Shane Rice (Shane10p)      Join Date: Jul 2013       03-14-2014, 11:51 PM Reply   
I try not to ever take anything personally on this forum. But the general tone and some of the expectations and advise people have giving are insane ! Get a lawyer , lemon law , get a new SA .... Really ?! How about you first off start by leaving the correct phone number with SC. I have no doubt that your boat has some kind of issue. But I don't think you could have handled this problem any worse. Public forums dragging the president of the company on here just to get in contact with you because you can't leave the correct contact info. Sorry to hear your transaction was not completed on the SA your dealer had in stock that YOU expressed interest ...... Because my SA is real nice ! And the service and people that work for SC was one of the reasons I made the move to the Supra line. Just recently had a charity auction for Wake the World and SC was one of our biggest supporters in helping us raise money for this great cause. I truly hope this works out for you and I hope you get back to enjoying that boat. And as for most of the people who responded to this I hope my wake doesn't hit your boats or I might end up being sued ....

Last edited by Shane10p; 03-14-2014 at 11:53 PM.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       03-15-2014, 12:15 AM Reply   
How about take option 1, get it fixed. when it gets back, sale it. It will be summertime anyway and the market will be up. Then buy yourself that sweet SA you saw for 3k more than what you paid for your boat. There's a season lost, but you end up with a SA for 7k less than what they're offering one to you.
Is a season off worth 7k to you?
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-15-2014, 5:22 AM Reply   
Ummmm because it's pretty crappy to make someone pay $700 a month for half a year while a boat is in the shop to repair a defect. If that's not a big deal I'm sure he'd let you make his payments.
Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       03-15-2014, 6:31 AM Reply   
So, a loaner boat would be fair? Normally in a situation like this with a car, if such repairs are to be made, the dealer issues you a loaner. However that is on a vehicle that is typically a NEED item for work, picking up kids, etc. Not a luxury item.

Also is there not a 22v to do a direct swap with? Or does he just want to upgrade now that he's had that one and wants to do it on someone elses dime?

Last edited by phathom; 03-15-2014 at 6:37 AM.
Old    Tim (Tims)      Join Date: Feb 2014       03-15-2014, 7:09 AM Reply   
My 2011 Malibu VTX was a hanger queen POS and I finally traded up to a VLX just to get rid of it. Missed 3 months of the season. Attempted to contact the Malibu factory multiple times during the process and could never get anywhere. I would have been pretty happy if the president of Malibu called me to personally make sure I was taken care of. Bottom line, the way all these boats are built there will be a good chance for problems/issues and the dealer will play a large part in keeping you happy. My opinion, the dealer is more important than what brand you pick.

In this case you have the president of the company coming on a public forum to try and address the issue and the customer can't even get the correct contact info to him? I don't know Brandon, but I have met the leadership team / owners at Skiers Choice, and they are stand up folks with everything vested into the reputation of their business. From the posts I have read, Brandon is going about this the wrong way.

How do you expect a brand new boat or your money back if you wont even let the factory determine what is wrong?? Especially with such an odd issue. So far, I think the only thing Brandon accomplished is to rouse up the lawyer folks on this forum to assure him that he should not be accountable for any of his decisions or actions. Perfect!!!
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-15-2014, 7:17 AM Reply   
I feel for the buyer here. I know how excited I get every time I buy a boat, and I can't begin to imagine how it would feel to have that turn into a nightmare like this. That being said, we are obviously missing some details here, and we are only getting "facts" from one side of the argument.

I'm not familiar with the terms of Supra's warranty, but my guess would be that there is specific language in there on what Supra is required to do in the event a defect is discovered. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those terms don't say that when there is a defect, you get a brand new boat of whatever model you choose, free of charge. For what it's worth, if I was the owner, I wouldn't be thrilled about having them tear the boat apart and putting a new bottom on it. That being said, I'd have to weigh that against ponying up the extra money to get a different boat. Given that I'm not in that position, I can't say which I'd choose.

Then there's the issue of his payments. It stinks that that guy is having to make payments when he has an unusable boat. That being said, Supra has offered him a remedy (which many may debate whether it is reasonable). I'll make the assumption here that Supra is of the opinion that their offer is in keeping with the terms of their warranty (I could be wrong). They're a big company, and I'd bet they're well versed in their own warranty. If the owner has now not decided what he wants to do, that's not Supra's fault. Furthermore, a manufacturer shouldn't have to treat a customer differently who finances a boat vs one who buys it outright. I will say that I've seen plenty of situations where a manufacturer will pick up the tab for downtime on a new vehicle, but that certainly wouldn't include downtown caused by the owner seeking a sweeter deal.

Like I said above, I feel for the guy and hope he gets his situation straightened out.
Old    Rick Tinker (rickt)      Join Date: May 2002       03-15-2014, 7:19 AM Reply   
I am not implying that Brandon did not give us the correct number. We have struggled to connect on the phones. Brandon has done nothing wrong here. We appreciate that he is a part of our boating family. We understand his frustration and hope we can have an opportunity to exam the boat and provide the support he should expect.
Old    B (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-15-2014, 5:36 PM Reply   
OMG....Why did I read all of this thread?.... Can we get some answers Brandon. Your buddy Curtis says your board racks drag in the water! Can we get some video footage of that?

Curtis instead of using your fingers to type on the thread, why don't you do us all a favor and use them to call your buddy Brandon so we can get some FACTS. That is what this thread needs is some FACTS.

Thanks.
Old    Drew Wolfe (wolfe_drew)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-15-2014, 5:37 PM Reply   
Ok, two more posts from Mr. Tinker. I'm guessing it's not BS that Brandon was provided Rick's cell number. So, if I'm in Brandon's position, I'm burning up every second of my cell plan with calls, texts and emails to get this fixed. There wouldn't have to be a follow up post from the Company President about having a hard time connecting with me.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-15-2014, 5:57 PM Reply   
Wolfe I'm with you. I would be all over this with Rick. I'm not sure why he has not responded. I did talk to him and he wants to take the boat out and take video for all the haters on this forum. Don't forget he has been paying $700 a month for a boat that no one wants to ride behind.

He did say that SC left him one message and asked "are you going to trade your boat in or send it in to is to fix? We need to know?" Not sure if what I would take from a VM like that.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-15-2014, 5:59 PM Reply   
FYI. For everyone out there I have my own boat that we share time on and I prefer my wake over the supra wake all day.
2012 Axis A22.
Old    Drew Wolfe (wolfe_drew)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-15-2014, 6:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoShack View Post
Wolfe I'm with you. I would be all over this with Rick. I'm not sure why he has not responded. I did talk to him and he wants to take the boat out and take video for all the haters on this forum. Don't forget he has been paying $700 a month for a boat that no one wants to ride behind.

He did say that SC left him one message and asked "are you going to trade your boat in or send it in to is to fix? We need to know?" Not sure if what I would take from a VM like that.
Why? Why would he waste more time & more money to make a video? Who cares what people on WW think? Nobody on WW is making that $770/month payment you two keep bringing up. Curious as to how in the hell you end up with a $700+/month payment on that boat?

You know how I take that message? SC wants to get this done as much, maybe seemingly more so, than Brandon does. Ship it back to TN today and get this issue resolved.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       03-15-2014, 6:43 PM Reply   
I agree some what. But when they tell you it's going to take 5-6 months that really turns into a full year of use. And at $700 a month your talking two years of payment on a boat that you haven't been able to use.

From my second hand opinion, if feels like SC has handed him off as the dealers problem.
He paid close to $80k for a brand new boat that he and all his wakeboard friends don't feel save or want to ride on or behind.

His last Supra almost had a waiting list to get on to ride, and now with this boat no one wants to be on it.
Old    Russell (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-15-2014, 7:17 PM Reply   
Shane - First, way to jump to conclusions, as you can see he didn't give Rick the wrong number. Second, no one said anything about suing another boat owner or anything of the sort...the guy purchased a brand new boat for $78K. This is an issue between a boat owner and manufacturer, period. The boat should not have a material defect, and if it does the boat owner who just purchased it shouldn't be the one losing money (interest on the loan, the cost of testing it at the advice of the dealer, etc.) and boat time because the manufacturer has not taken care of the issue. Plain and simple, if you sell a product with a defect then you need to make it right, especially when that product cost $78K. The best way to take of the situation is quality control, and if sometimes things slip through then you take care of the issue immediately. That is business.

Also, I do think that it is great that Rick is on here, but I would expect that....if that video really shows what he the owners claims is happening, SC will have some explaining to do. If I owned SC and saw this happening, I would make it my priority to get ahold of this guy and this boat ASAP. If it turned out the story was false then I would let it be known, if it turned out the story was true. I would fix the issue (and make the buyer better off than before for dealing with this mess), and then explain why this happened and why it will never happen again.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-15-2014, 7:42 PM Reply   
Hasn't SC offered to fix the problem? I can see a legit issue that the owner doesn't have a boat to use while his is in the shop, but other than that, this comes down to a personal decision by the owner. It would appear that he has decided he doesn't want the thing repaired. I can understand that, but Im not exactly sure what his remedy is once he's made that decision.

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