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Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       01-25-2014, 9:08 AM Reply   
Which do u guys have? Which do u prefer? What do u like or dislike about what u have? Trying to decide which one I want
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       01-25-2014, 9:37 AM Reply   
I havs the WS420 and really like it, my favorite feature is being able to control the volumes of the tower and in boats seperately. Don't know anything about the Exile, except I have heard they make quality equipment.

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Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       01-25-2014, 10:01 AM Reply   
I just purchased a full exile system including the ZLD. Although I have yet to install as the boat has not yet arrived


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Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-25-2014, 10:10 AM Reply   
Here is what you get with the Wetsounds 420 that is different.
The Wetsounds EQ has dual independent EQ bands. One for the tower zone and one for the in-boat zone. You can adjust one without impacting the other. A good idea since typically the usage and speakers are very different between the two zones. Effectively two full EQs in one chassis.
The Wetsounds EQ has a mic & PA system that allows you, as the driver or the observer, to talk to the rider. Very nice feature especially when training a new rider.
The Wetsounds EQ has three discreet stereo OP amps versus just two and a fader to split up one stereo OP amp into two zones.
The Wetsounds EQ has all the RCA jacks chassis-mounted on the rear panel as a method of rock solid strain refief, versus RCAs that are only circuit-board-mounted.
The Wetsounds uses encapsulated pots in castings on all the controls behind the front panel versus a thin stamping to hold the pot wafers together that offers little to no protection from moisture.
What the Wetsounds EQ does NOT have is a redundant lowpass filter on the EQ since it depends on the crossover contained within every amplifier. A redundant lowpass filter is a leftover from an EQ platform before amplifiers normally had built in crossovers.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-25-2014, 10:10 AM Reply   
I have a WS420 and several of my friends do also. We all like them. The ability to use the microphone over the tower speakers is very useful as well as the control over the in boat versus the tower speakers. You boarder can hear the tunes without the driver going deaf. As for the Exile Zid , I'm not familiar with it . Being on the East Coast i've never seen Exile,although i'm sure some East Coasters have their systems. I've heard good things from the West Coast owners here on wake world though.
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       01-25-2014, 10:10 AM Reply   
I have the 420sq paired with the WS Bluetooth. Pretty awesome combo.
Volume of sub/in boats/tower obviously independent. Mid, mid bass, bass, and high independent for in boats and towers also. As you probably already know all of this.

What it does not have, but wish it did, and I'm not sure if the exile does or not, is a fade option to fade to bow/rear and control those zones independent. I'd say if the exile has that feature, go with it. If not, I see no reason not to roll the 420
Old    Darrin (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       01-25-2014, 10:13 AM Reply   
I am weighing this too. Here are the main differences I'm aware of.
ZLD separate Bass freq and vol. 420 bass vol knob is actually freq
420 separate tone controls for tower and boat
420 has PA
ZLD has higher quality internals
420 is able to connect multiple boats together
420 has blue tooth add on

The mic and boat connectivity are not a big deal for me and my head unit has bluetooth. I like the separate tone for tower and boat of the 420 and separate bass volume and frequency of the ZLD. All my gear is Exile and I have a 420 that hasn't been installed yet but I'm still on the fence.
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       01-25-2014, 10:15 AM Reply   
I'd also put in the fact of the cleanliness, like above, if all of your gear is exile, imo I would go ZLD to keep it uniform.
All my gear is WS, amps, in boats, towers, Bluetooth, so for me the 420 was a no brainer to tie the system in.

I wouldn't wear 2 different socks either, if you catch my drift.


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Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-25-2014, 10:18 AM Reply   
JM,
Both EQs have fade between the tower and in-boat zone plus a bass level control. Neither gives you the option of also fading between the bow and cockpit 'within' the in-boat zone if you are already using the fader between the the in-boat and tower zones. However, to achieve the extra two zones and full control you can add two Pac LC-1s to the output of the in-boat zone provided you have independent amplifier channels for the bow and cockpit speakers. Also, with the remote line level controls contained on some amplifiers, such as JL Audio XD or HD series, you can accomplish the same function.
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       01-25-2014, 10:24 AM Reply   
In regard to cabledog's comment I'm pretty sure the bass knob (in boats) and ring (towers) are volume not frequency. The ring around the subwoofer knob is frequency of the crossover. The actual knob part of the subwoofer is its volume control. This is speaking of the older model 420 don't have the new one just yet. But I can't imagine the bass knob controls a frequency range instead of volume.

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Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-25-2014, 10:39 AM Reply   
Darrin,
You are referring to the previous model of Wetsounds 420 EQ....which is long gone. It had a paragraphic bass control instead of a simple bass level control. The new Wetsounds EQ has a pure and simple bass level control.
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-25-2014, 11:10 AM Reply   
Wow, some good information here from David as always and some wrong information on a couple points from others.

It is not really fair to the ZLD to try to compare the two products as they are completely different products. The ZLD is a car audio based equalizer. With fade between the zones. (cabin/tower=Front/rear) So the better comparison for the ZLD would be the Arc Audio KEQ5, The Audio Control units, the clarion units, or countless other units. As these all function similar.

The WS-420SQ has complete unique functions and controls and adjustments from anything on the market. Master Volume with 3 separate zone of independent true volume controls, dual EQ functions for each zone,

Cabledog. Let me clarify some of your statements. The WS-420 SQ has 3 Zone volume. It has a Main overall Master volume control. Separate Tower Volume, Separate In Boat Volume and Separate Bass Volume. The Tower Volume has it's own dedicated EQ for that zone. The In Boat Volume has it's own dedicated EQ for that zone. The Bass Volume output is a full range output with no freq adjustments or controls.

Not sure who told you the ZLD has higher quality internals. That is just not true. If you have questions. Ask David. He has had experience with both products and taken them apart and would be happy to explain the truth. The WS-420 is built like a tank with the highest quality OP amp's and components. Also, we have been building the original WS-420 back in 2008. Designed in 2006. We won the CES Innovations engineering Award for it in 2008. So we have had 6 years on the market making improvements and adjustments as we go.

Mike, Feel free to give us a call at 877-938-7757 and we can be happy to hook you up with a local dealer if we have someone close or answer any questions.

Tim
Wet Sounds

Last edited by wetsounds1; 01-25-2014 at 11:14 AM.
Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       01-25-2014, 12:42 PM Reply   
Actually Tim I met u at sema. I run a large car audio, wheel and accessory shop in NC. We are a large jl dealer as well. Thanks for taking so much time with me in Vegas by the way. I was the one with the wife that repeatedly came to raid your wet sounds neon color coozies, not sure if I spelled that right by the way. Since I don't carry your product or exile I'm investigating both for my boat and a possible line to pick up for another marine line to offer. Nice display u had at sema by the way. I enjoyed your booth. One plus of the exile is the burr brown processor which is extremely nice and clean sounding. Yours has the pa mic and better independent control. I feel both are quality pieces offered by quality companies
Old    Mike North Carolina (MIKEnNC)      Join Date: Nov 2012       01-25-2014, 12:43 PM Reply   
Also wanted to see how people liked both that already have them as well. Thanks for joining the thread everyone.
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-25-2014, 1:15 PM Reply   
Mike,
Strictly according to the facts....Yes, Burr Brown made their rep in digital to analog processors found in a CD player for instance. BUT, there is a major misconception here. There is absolutely nothing digital in either EQ and there is no form of complex processor in either EQ. So sound quality terms commonly used to describe a good D to A processor, such as 'warm' for example, will not apply to a simple OP amp in this type of device (EQ). This is just borrowed language right out of a D to A or CD player brochure. Just a little bit of harmless marketing hype at work.
And technically, of the seven stereo OP amps in the Exile EQ that are in the signal path, only two of the seven are actually Burr Brown, just the two output OP amps (basic integrated chip). The four other tone control (4-bands) and one crossover (lowpass) chips are not Burr Brown.
Burr Brown is a brand of Texas Instuments. A Burr Brown OP Amp is a good one but not one you could distinquish among so many other OP amps in the same EQ and certainly not playing MP3 files in open air.
Old    Ben R (brichter14)      Join Date: Jul 2010       01-25-2014, 1:25 PM Reply   
What if you dont have an amp powering your in boats? Could you still use the ws420 effectively?
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-25-2014, 4:05 PM Reply   
Ben, there's no way to have the WS420, or any pre-amp for that matter, tied into speakers that aren't powered from an external amp.

As a dealer for Wet Sounds, I've sold many of these WS-420's. Most of my customers didn't see the beauty of the 420 until they actually put their hands on one and saw how it operated. A salesman ( or anyone on here for that matter) can talk about it all day long, but most people can't pay attention long enough to understand it. Everyone that I've sold one to has loved it.

My suggestion - go find a dealer and demo one for yourself. If you want to demo the ZLD, you can pretty much sum it up from any other manufacturer's EQ that's out there - Kicker KQ5, Arc KEQ5, Clarion, etc. The WS-420 is in a class of it's own.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-25-2014, 4:29 PM Reply   
With personal experience, i have used the old 420 vs the 420SQ. Before the SQ came out I was going to steer away from the 420 due to there not being an independent bass knob. They fixed that on the SQ. I will NEVER own a boat without one again. The ZLD reminded me a lot of the clarion EQ. It's all personal preference. I've seen both of these and played with both. The 420 is what I'd pick 10/10 times. Wetsounds marine equipment will be the only thing I use as long as I own a boat.


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Old    Surf Addict (Desi) (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       01-26-2014, 12:43 AM Reply   
WS420 for the independent level controls all across the board and EQ range for tower and in cabin speakers. It gives you a lot of control and you only have to tune your speakers once from the EQ and not have to make tweaks after switching between tower and cabin. All around great sound.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       01-26-2014, 7:57 AM Reply   
If you buy wetsounds. Make sure you check that dealer you buy from is supported wetsounds dealer. I bought from a company that sells a lot of wetsounds and when I had an issue with my 420 wetsounds refused to warranty it.
Old    Grant (grkero)      Join Date: Dec 2010       01-26-2014, 8:05 AM Reply   
I just installed a WS420SQ yesterday in my boat. Only messed with it for about an hour but I absolutely love it so far. Big improvement from my first WS420 just in terms of ergonomics.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-26-2014, 8:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoShack View Post
If you buy wetsounds. Make sure you check that dealer you buy from is supported wetsounds dealer. I bought from a company that sells a lot of wetsounds and when I had an issue with my 420 wetsounds refused to warranty it.
I wish all manufacturers would do that!
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-26-2014, 1:15 PM Reply   
David (david analog) = David (earmark audio) now thats funny certainly a purely objective opinion there. WW is awesome! Both great products enjoy your project and your boat. Soooooooooo funny.

QUOTE=wetsounds1;1861861]Wow, some good information here from David as always and some wrong information on a couple points from others.

It is not really fair to the ZLD to try to compare the two products as they are completely different products. The ZLD is a car audio based equalizer. With fade between the zones. (cabin/tower=Front/rear) So the better comparison for the ZLD would be the Arc Audio KEQ5, The Audio Control units, the clarion units, or countless other units. As these all function similar.

The WS-420SQ has complete unique functions and controls and adjustments from anything on the market. Master Volume with 3 separate zone of independent true volume controls, dual EQ functions for each zone,

Cabledog. Let me clarify some of your statements. The WS-420 SQ has 3 Zone volume. It has a Main overall Master volume control. Separate Tower Volume, Separate In Boat Volume and Separate Bass Volume. The Tower Volume has it's own dedicated EQ for that zone. The In Boat Volume has it's own dedicated EQ for that zone. The Bass Volume output is a full range output with no freq adjustments or controls.

Not sure who told you the ZLD has higher quality internals. That is just not true. If you have questions. Ask David. He has had experience with both products and taken them apart and would be happy to explain the truth. The WS-420 is built like a tank with the highest quality OP amp's and components. Also, we have been building the original WS-420 back in 2008. Designed in 2006. We won the CES Innovations engineering Award for it in 2008. So we have had 6 years on the market making improvements and adjustments as we go.

Mike, Feel free to give us a call at 877-938-7757 and we can be happy to hook you up with a local dealer if we have someone close or answer any questions.

Tim
Wet Sounds[/QUOTE]
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-26-2014, 3:43 PM Reply   
I've tried both the ws420 (old version, not the SQ) and the car based eq solution (clarion EQS746 and ZLD), and I strongly prefer the simplicity of a car based eq with the Revs. I've got the audiocontrol unit on my list of mods to try this boating season.

The WS420SQ seems to have cured a few of my complaints about the wetsounds EQ (noise, no master volume, no sub when faded to towers), but it's still an overly complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist anymore. The whole reason for the dual EQs was that the original wetsounds tower speakers sounded so harsh that they needed to be independently EQ'd to listen to them for long. The newer rev series sounds much better and doesn't need to be eq'd independently.

The irony is that listening to my buddy's exile tower system (XM9s), he COULD use some independent EQ on the tower.

So my thought is that if you go exile horns on the towers, the WS420SQ probably adds some benefit, but if you go WS rev series on the tower, the exile EQ is all you need.... unless of course you also need the mic to be "that guy," in which case the WS420SQ does add some "value"

Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       01-26-2014, 7:11 PM Reply   
What are you folks with rev10's and WS420sq's setting for your settings on your towers?
I'd like to know how most have theirs set, it'll help me out a bunch!


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Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       01-26-2014, 7:20 PM Reply   
Set those Rev 10s to around 65hz on the amp, and you should be able to leave the 420 tower freq knob pretty much straight up in down IMO
Old    J (Jmorlan)      Join Date: May 2013       01-26-2014, 10:20 PM Reply   
My controls have a bass, mid, mid bass, and high. For in boats and towers.
Set them all to the center? Simon at WS told me between 100-120 on the amp.
Also, not to de-rail here, but the gain also, SD2, where should I be? 2 pair of rev10


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Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-27-2014, 8:36 AM Reply   
JM,
Here is what you need to know in general about setting the highpass filter on a tower speaker.
First, there is an acoustic fact called Hoffman's Iron Law, which states that you can have 1) low bass extension, 2) high sensitivity= plays loud, or 3) small enclosure. Pick only two. In other words, you can design a speaker/woofer that excels in any two of the three attributes....and that the more you excel at one or two, the more you compromise the other one or two. No designer can defy this law.
So we know that a tower pod is very compact because a 5-gallon drum won't work on the tower. Plus, we know that the woofer has to be very sensitive in order to a) keep pace with a powerful horn loaded compression tweeter, and b) play very loud in order to project over a great distance. Those prioroties are pretty much set in stone. As a result, no tower speaker will play really low bass. The Wetsounds Rev10 however, does play the lowest because it has the largest driver and the largest pod.
None the less, it's a waste to highpass a tower speaker so low that you are attempting to derive deep bass extension. This only causes the speaker to reach its dynamic limitations sooner. And you really can't force a speaker to play lower than the resonance of the speaker & pod combination. So again, you are just wasting power resources.
Since an active crossover is before the amplifier, as you raise the crossover point you also narrow the bandwidth required of the amplifier. Thus, the amplifier will deliver more power over a narrower bandwidth. The higher you cross over the farther the tower speaker will project. Of course at some point you will diminish the audible bass range as you go too high.
There is no absolute crossover point that applies to all systems, even if they contain the same speakers. There is only one set procedure to achieve the correct crossover point. Yours may be different based on your particular usage, whether that be more near field listening for SQ or more SPL for long range projection to a rider.
For most, 65 Hz is a little on the low side and 120 Hz is a little on the high side for a tower speaker as large as a 10-inch.
Old    Chris Dirty (Dmac420sj)      Join Date: Mar 2012       01-27-2014, 9:12 AM Reply   
^so basically set it at 80?
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-27-2014, 10:57 AM Reply   
Quote, "^so basically set it at 80?"

Sure, if we are just throwing out a number versus actually tuning the system then 80 Hz will work in many cases.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       01-27-2014, 11:44 AM Reply   
Tim, make a cheaper version of the ws w/o the mic and it'd sell. to shawn's point, not everyone needs nor wants a mic and that was part of my decision to move to the zld. at 1/2 the price, it fit my bill nicely...
Old    Brian (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       01-27-2014, 12:26 PM Reply   
Just a quick update for you guys -

ZLD is now sold out and Version 2 will start shipping late February. We've improved upon the prior design and think the next generation of ZLD will be a home run. More information next month. -Brian
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       01-27-2014, 3:35 PM Reply   
I just installed a WS-420 on our new Wakesetter 23 LSV. This has always been my first install in every boat we've had. The PA is worth the price of admission alone. It's very nice to be able to talk to the rider and/or people on shore. Being able to adjust the volume of the tower and boat speakers separately is something you'll become addicted to once you have it. This time around I added their Bluetooth controller as well, so I'm looking forward to testing that out.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-27-2014, 3:53 PM Reply   
I had heard that if you had the Bluetooth you lose control of your stereo remotes? Is this true?


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Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-27-2014, 4:25 PM Reply   
Chase,

Are you referring to going BT into the AUX of an EQ? If so, the system will function just as it would if your music source was hard-wired to the EQ's AUX input via the head-phone. If going BT into the head-unit, then again, it would function much the same is via hard-wired using the headphone output. your remotes would allow volume control and thats about it.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-27-2014, 4:49 PM Reply   
I just ordered one as well with a whole host of other Wetsounds goodies!!!!!

I got to play around with the new unit at one of the local shops and WetSounds heeded the customer and installer feeback and made a unit that is hands down a great product. I tried three times to get the older version to my liking and could just never feel good about it. From what I have seen and experimented with the new one, I am excited to put it in my boat!
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       01-27-2014, 6:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianinpdx View Post
Just a quick update for you guys -



ZLD is now sold out and Version 2 will start shipping late February. We've improved upon the prior design and think the next generation of ZLD will be a home run. More information next month. -Brian

So should I sell my ZLD now that I have just sitting and waiting for the boat . Kidding, I can always put it in the RZR


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Old    Terry Doyle (terrydoyle)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-28-2014, 6:42 PM Reply   
Is it possible to switch the sub amp rca with the tower amp rca so that the master volume would control cabin speakers / sub together. And the Sub volume to control tower speakers separate? I was thinking for the ZLD for a bit betting cabin/tower control

Last edited by terrydoyle; 01-28-2014 at 6:44 PM.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-28-2014, 6:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrydoyle View Post
Is it possible to switch the sub amp rca with the tower amp rca so that the master volume would control cabin speakers / sub together. And the Sub volume to control tower speakers separate? I was thinking for the ZLD for a bit betting cabin/tower control
No. Sub output is low range, not full range.

The ZLD and the WS420 do exactly the same thing in this regard -- there is master volume, and there is volume to each zone. ZLD is a fader, so you only "cut" one zone, while WS420 has subordinate independent volume controls for tower and cabin. Some say that the fader isn't "true" zone control, but nobody has ever been able to explain to me why you might want to turn down both cabin and tower to zero while leaving the master volume cranked.

Nevertheless, the master volume on the WS420SQ, as I understand it, is TRUE master volume, so if you completely cut master volume you will have no output to cabin, tower, or sub. So the real answer to your question is that it already does what you want it to do without switching around rcas.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-28-2014, 6:58 PM Reply   
Terry,

Im gonna say no, it wont work quite how you hope it to, but what piece of equipment specifically are you referring to?

I see you edited and added "ZLD", since I started my post, is that what you are asking about?

Last edited by chpthril; 01-28-2014 at 7:02 PM.
Old    Terry Doyle (terrydoyle)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-28-2014, 7:04 PM Reply   
ya i was hoping i could get the easy volume adjustment that i wanted out of the ZLD that is available in the wetsounds without spending the extra money. I just feel i would be constantly turning the fade/volume with the zld and I don't really feel like i would be adjusting sub volume often.
Old    Terry Doyle (terrydoyle)      Join Date: Jan 2014       01-28-2014, 7:06 PM Reply   
Also hoping the sub freq would give me slight adjustment on my tower HLCD and use the fade to adjust sub with cabin. Thats just what i think would suit my needs the best. But i guess i get all that with the wetsounds
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-28-2014, 7:26 PM Reply   
Terry,

The sub adjustment on an automotive EQ like the ZLD, is a low-pass cross-over filter and not frequency cut/boost like the equalizer portion for the full-range chnls of the EQ. Swapping the RCAs would control the volume, but man, it would not sound right.

The WS-420 would allow you to boost or cut the frequencies to the tower zone, totally independent of the in-boat zone. You cant get this with an automotive based EQ. What EQ changes you make, effect both the front/rear, or in-boat/tower if its so labeled on a traditional EQ.
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-29-2014, 6:53 AM Reply   
Quote from Shawndoggy,
"The ZLD and the WS420 do exactly the same thing in this regard -- there is master volume, and there is volume to each zone. ZLD is a fader, so you only "cut" one zone, while WS420 has subordinate independent volume controls for tower and cabin. Some say that the fader isn't "true" zone control, but nobody has ever been able to explain to me why you might want to turn down both cabin and tower to zero while leaving the master volume cranked."

shawndoggy,
I for one agree with you in that the user functionality of the two is essentially the same even though the internal topology is very different. Let me explain what the real differences are.
The Exile ZLD uses one stereo integrated chip to drive the tower and in-boat zones and the output of this chip is controlled by a low level passive fader (consisting of two opposing pots). So while you have separate RCA outputs, you only have a common chip driving them with a fader after the fact which serves to divide the potential voltage in half. Plus, you have entered a resistive and inductive device in series with the only Burr Brown chip in the fullrange signal path, thereby negating any potential sonic benefit if there ever was one to begin with.
In contrast, the Wetsounds WS420 has DISCRETE stereo chips for EVERY zone. Any and all level controls are BEFORE the output devices like a true preamp. There is no dividing up of the output voltages. The Wetsounds is more expensive to build and superior in quality. This is just one small aspect, but a very good example of the product quality differences.
Old    Brian (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       01-29-2014, 10:12 AM Reply   
Shawndog - Nobody deserves to be bagged on for your preference in gear. Davids information is old and outdated. Looks to me like maybe he took apart an early generation of the ZLD and compared it with the newest gen of the 420sq. I think its poor taste when people get bagged on stating their preferences.

This would be like me attacking the original version of the 420 and comparing it to the latest version. Come on... really? Clearly, products evolve (in all brands). The original ZLD was a home run for consumers 3 years ago and I expect the new version to be the same.

Be positive David. Take the high road.
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-29-2014, 10:23 AM Reply   
Brian,
My post was spot on accurate. That is neither positive nor negative. Let's just stick to the facts. If I have offered up any inaccurate information then please correct me with specifics....and not this vague sales rhetoric.
I want to know exactly how a $200 Exile ZLD differs from a $50 Absolute EQ400 other than a different front panel, diffferent knobs, and two IC chips. I know the circuit topology is identical trace for trace and only the board layout has been altered to facilitate the different front panel layout.
Old    Brian (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       01-29-2014, 11:09 AM Reply   
David - sounds like you want to have an engineering conversation. ok. Which version do you have. send me the serial number and I'll look it up. Or would you rather the general evolution of the model. Bottom line - you have no idea what the newest version looks like on the inside. And I will not go into that detail until it launches.

Last edited by brianinpdx; 01-29-2014 at 11:14 AM. Reason: .
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-29-2014, 12:24 PM Reply   
You can skip all the drama and go with the original. Kicker KQ5

http://www.kicker.com/Equalizers


Phil
Kicker

Attached Images
 
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-29-2014, 12:33 PM Reply   
David your opinion is marginalized with your slanted ax grinding. I was waiting for you to come out of the woodwork when I saw the post. While clearly you can talk over everyones heads and make everyone including your old customers look stupid you look like an angry bitter man. I gotta believe the new owner of earmark is glad you changed your name to analog. I think most of us would prefer you to quit posting your dribble and anti exile (Brian) posts. Joke!
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-29-2014, 12:34 PM Reply   
phil if only you had a real sub output instead of the kicker-proprietary one!
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-29-2014, 12:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
phil if only you had a real sub output instead of the kicker-proprietary one!
That is a fair and valid point. To have sub control with the KQ5 you need to use a kicker sub amp, as the KQ5 includes a remote bass knob for a Kicker sub amp as opposed to a subwoofer preamplifier output section.

What you do get though is A/B source switching, independent source gain control, control of two zones, a quasi-parametric EQ, (that affects both zones) as well as a master volume knob. If anyone wants me to explain quasi-parametric, let me know...

Note too that you have clipping indicators for both the inputs and the outputs. The input clipping indicator will tell you when you are putting too much juice into the unit and the output clipping indicator will notify you when the EQ is maxed out and will also help in setting amp gains down-stream.

Hey, it was more fun to toss this viable product into the discussion, way more fun than posting a picture of a box of popcorn and a coke....

Phil
Kicker
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-29-2014, 12:59 PM Reply   
Brian,
Evasive, deceptive and manipulative.
I had no idea what EQ shawndoggy was/is using. Don't care. I know him to be knowledgeable and I was agreeing with his take on the functionality. I further expounded on what the internal differences actually are.
I didn't reference a new replacement product that has yet to be introduced, nor did the OP inquire about a new model. He only asked about product that is in use today as was everyone's comments.
Engineering discussion conversion? Between me and who else? There's no engineering involved when you borrow an existing EQ platform that has been around since the previous decade. But you go ahead and share what revisions have taken place on the existing EQ (that has just been discontinued) that would make a single statement of mine false. Be specific now.
Old    David (DavidAnalog)      Join Date: Sep 2013       01-29-2014, 1:09 PM Reply   
Phil,
Quasi-parametric is also referred to as paragraphic. Adjusts frequency and amplitude but not the Q/bandwidth as a full parametric does. It's the same function as the previous Wetsounds EQ had on the bass controls only. I think the value in having a paragraphic is huge because you can better align the correction or emphasis with the targeted frequency range. Alpine used to have a killer 7-band full parametric trunk-mount EQ. I miss it. Unfortunately, using the function is often over the head of the end user. If anyone wants to take the time to learn how to best utilize a paragraphic (and it really helps to have an RTA rather than using just your ear) it is definitely a worthwhile piece and will make your system sound better.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-29-2014, 1:11 PM Reply   
Shoot, this still deserves a popcorn and coke....

Phil
Kicker
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Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-29-2014, 1:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAnalog View Post
Phil,
Quasi-parametric is also referred to as paragraphic. Adjusts frequency and amplitude but not the Q/bandwidth as a full parametric does. It's the same function as the previous Wetsounds EQ had on the bass controls only. I think the value in having a paragraphic is huge because you can better align the correction or emphasis with the targeted frequency range. Alpine used to have a killer 7-band full parametric trunk-mount EQ. I miss it. Unfortunately, using the function is often over the head of the end user. If anyone wants to take the time to learn how to best utilize a paragraphic (and it really helps to have an RTA rather than using just your ear) it is definitely a worthwhile piece and will make your system sound better.
Only slightly easier to explain than the proper use of a quality stereo compressor......





Phil
Kicker
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       01-29-2014, 1:16 PM Reply   
And all this time I thought a paragraphic equalizer just kept all of your paragraphs the same length.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-29-2014, 1:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
And all this time I thought a paragraphic equalizer just kept all of your paragraphs the same length.
Hah hah hah!


Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       01-29-2014, 2:26 PM Reply   
My buddies ZLD works great my 420 works great Dave is still and angry ax grinding DB classic of WW. Go hug up with Tim since he invented speakers, amps, and eq's the entire marine industry. Keep grinding that ax keep marginalizing yourself. Where is jet ranger when you need him.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-29-2014, 8:49 PM Reply   
It wouldn't be winter without a good Wetsounds v. Exile pissing match...

It's funny, all the technical mumbo jumbo is over my head (and 99% of boat buyers equiping their boats with audio gear). These are not the variables that most people use to make purchasing decisions.

In my case, I've had systems from both companies. I can't match the technical knowledge of many here, instead I make audio decisions based on what sounds good, is easiest to use, and has most convenient support model. For me that's Exile. My WS system was plagued with issues and phone support was good but I had to drive an hour in traffic to get a dealer to put their hands on it. I was impressed with Tim who got involved but somehow we never really resolved it and I eventually sold the boat.

Since then I've had two Exile systems (two boats). Both had ZLD. I don' t give a rip what's inside the ZLD. All I know is the system I have sounds miles better than my old WS setup and I've never had any issues. The ZLD has big knobs and is easy to use. I have no need for an EQ that makes life harder for me on the water. Why do I need all that flexibility in an EQ? If my system is properly tuned at install, all I ever want to adjust is volume (one big knob), tower vs. cabin (one big knob), and very occasionally the sub (two big knobs).

I'm sure the 420 is a great piece of equipment, but it looks like a pita to operate on the water and I have no need for so much on-the-fly adjustability. YMMV

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-29-2014, 10:18 PM Reply   
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Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-30-2014, 4:34 AM Reply   
Wow your stereo didn't work right so you sold your boat! Hmmmm?
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       01-30-2014, 7:29 AM Reply   
You audiophiles are silly. I guess I just don't get it...
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-30-2014, 10:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Wow your stereo didn't work right so you sold your boat! Hmmmm?
Yeah Robert, that's what happened. LOL.

I sold it because I wanted a better one. And I got one in every way (incl. the stereo).

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