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Old    CJ Johnson (BigJohnsonUT)      Join Date: Apr 2014       10-23-2014, 11:35 PM Reply   
Has anyone here seen a dealer that (on top of options and Base MSRP) charges $3,500 for shipping and prep?? I was shocked when I got my build sheet for my 2015 and saw that charge on there. It seems overly excessive. I've purchased 6 brand new boats in the past 8 years have have never noticed anything like this...Please let me know what your experiences with this has been and if I'm getting ripped off...!
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-23-2014, 11:43 PM Reply   
Nope, I've never seen one that high. Not on any car, truck or boat.
That seems like a remarkably easy charge for them to knock of to give you a great 'deal'. Of course they may be rowing the boat from the factory to ensure it's seaworthy but not putting any miles on the engine.
Old    James Jackson (jamespjackson95)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-24-2014, 6:05 AM Reply   
I would be upset that there charging you that fee in the first place considering you have likely bought a bunch of boats from them over the years and they already made a killing off of you.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-24-2014, 6:34 AM Reply   
I know freight for a Tige from Texas to Minnesota is around $1800. That also includes the freight for the boat mate trailer which arrives from their(boat mate) factory separate. Boats and trailers almost always arrive separately and are different freight. $3500 seems high, but freight and prep are always on top of MSRP(and boat options).

If that is all the dealer is adding to actual dealer cost, then thats probably fair. If you have bought 6 new boats in 8 years from this dealer you should know them well enough to sit down and say "this seems excessive, has it always been this much?"
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       10-24-2014, 7:39 AM Reply   
I wonder what brand it is, that would tell us where it's coming from, sorry if I missed it
Old    Charlie Koch (cwkoch)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-24-2014, 7:40 AM Reply   
Freight & Prep was $2000 on my 2014 LSV, and $1000 on my 2010 VTX.
Old    CJ Johnson (BigJohnsonUT)      Join Date: Apr 2014       10-24-2014, 7:55 AM Reply   
First time buying from this dealer. That's why it caught me off guard when I saw it.
Old    August (augie_09)      Join Date: Mar 2011       10-24-2014, 8:00 AM Reply   
2300 here in Missouri, at 2 different dealers
Old    CJ Johnson (BigJohnsonUT)      Join Date: Apr 2014       10-24-2014, 8:23 AM Reply   
So far from what I'm seeing is they are $1500 to $2000 overpriced on it. Seems to me like a way to add in some inflated profit. Also, I received 2 different quotes on the same boat from 2 different salespeople and on the quote the shipping and prep fee is different. One said

$750 rigging and setup + $2200 for shipping

The other (for the same boat) said:

$950 rigging and setup + $2500 shipping

Seems to me they can type in whatever number they want hope the customer doesn't say anything and call it good?

Or maybe I'm reading to much into this. When I asked a salesperson the response was that they charge that on all their boats...

Great dealership, great people, I'm excited about their product for '15, and I want to give them my business, but this is too weird.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-24-2014, 8:40 AM Reply   
Keep in mind sales guys are usually paid commission based on profit. He gets you to pay more..he makes more. I would have an issue with the same dealer quoting me different fixed number(the shipping and set up should be fixed regardless of who is quoting). They would have lost my trust and possibly my business at that point.
Old    Mitch Mann (BoardCo)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-24-2014, 10:02 AM Reply   
Since we run a dealership in Utah I can probably give you some background on costs and why they are what they are.

Freight on a boat is going to be based on 2 things - where the boat is being shipped from and whether or not (and how much) the dealership is marking that amount up on sales. Where we are based in Utah and the boats we sell are based in California, our shipping charges to the customer are somewhere around $1100 which are the actual shipping costs. A good rule of thumb is a little over $1.25 a mile from where it is being shipped from. If it is much higher than then the dealer is marking it up from there.

"Rigging" fees are different depending on the dealership, but basically it is a charge for taking good care of a customer which really does have some significant costs to it. Our Dealer Prep fees are $500 and that includes setting up all of the equipment on the boat, summerization, lake testing the boat before delivery, full top-to-bottom boat inspection before delivery, on-water delivery to the customer including surf / wakeboard lessons if desired.

$750 - $950 would be a bit steep but not absolutely crazy. On the other hand, we have customers that purchased boats where the dealership charges $800-$1000 for a 20 hour service which is absolutely crazy.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-24-2014, 11:44 AM Reply   
Looks like you are in Utah. If it is a Tennessee boat, that is not unreasonable. It is a slippery slope. Some dealers will build it in the price of the boat (it is a cost of course) but then you are paying tax on it. Others will break it out like yours did. It is better to break it out, because you won't pay tax on that amount, but then we can get a lot of push back if the customer does not know what transportation rates are. Believe me, we think it is ridiculous too and push back as much as we can with the transport companies.

Prep costs are going to vary from dealer to dealer. I know we put at least 5-10 hours of labor to get a boat ready for a customer delivery, plus batteries, guide pole covers, fuel, mirror mounts, etc.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-24-2014, 12:12 PM Reply   
That seems steep to me if we are talking about dealer cost for Freight and prep although I am comparing to what we were charging customers for F/P when I was selling boats back in 2007. I was in Seattle so as far a run from Knoxville as you can get in the continental US and we charge 1500-2000 for Freght and prep for most 20-24' wakeboard boats. To me even including prep as an extra line item is absolutely ridiculous. The Mastercraft's we sold only took a couple hours to get all setup from removing shrink wrap to ready to dump in the water using 2 people. Since we talking about cost that equates to probably $60-$100 in labor($15/hr X 2hrs X 2 people).

I think the reality is that even if there isn't a line item you are paying for it. I think it is more important to look at the bottom line price of the boat before adding tax and license. If you are happy with that, than it doesn't matter.

By the way, there is a dealer up here in the Seattle area that I am pretty sure charges like 8500+ freight and prep on their boats and probably keeps the highest margin of any dealer in the country. I guess that is what happens when you are selling boats to nothing but millionaire waterfront property owners.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-24-2014, 1:11 PM Reply   
Yep, seems steep to us also, but I assure you we are well over $2k per boat just to Colorado. If anyone can do it for less, I am all ears.
Old     (WheelerWake)      Join Date: Mar 2013       10-25-2014, 9:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I think the reality is that even if there isn't a line item you are paying for it. I think it is more important to look at the bottom line price of the boat before adding tax and license. If you are happy with that, than it doesn't matter.
I agree, if you are happy with the bottom line, that's all you need. That being said, dealer prep, rigging or whatever is just the cost of doing business. If I was going line by line, that would have to be removed. This applies to cars also.
Old    CJ Johnson (BigJohnsonUT)      Join Date: Apr 2014       10-25-2014, 9:33 AM Reply   
I understand that if I'm happy with the Out the Door price then it really doesn't matter, I guess the main concern was the fact that the numbers changed on the 2 different quotes. That shouldn't happen on the exact same boat. Anyway, they are great guys and ownership and I think i'll buy the boat. I haven't posted which dealership or boat brand because i don't want to publicly throw anyone under the bus or throw accusations out there. Just trying to see what is common practice on this shipping and rigging stuff. Thanks for everyone's input
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       10-25-2014, 1:26 PM Reply   
sounds like Bob Copey back in business?eight or nine years ago when things were going crazy that's about what he was charging at Cope & McPheeters and ultimate water sports for dealer prep and delivery. I heard this is how he covered his facility overhead. It was also a large reason I did not buy a boat from one of his dealerships.
Old    Darren Lamont (83Starsnstripes)      Join Date: Jul 2013       10-25-2014, 2:48 PM Reply   
why dealers add "freight & prep" to the boat is beyond me. just include it in the price of the boat. Its a hard cost to every boat. When a customer asks for a boat price and you tell them $75k, then add $3500 after the fact, it's going to upset that customer.

CJ, if you are really worried about it, just price out what it costs to ship a boat from TN to UT on a flatbed. My guess is it's going to be north of $2k, plus your dealer has to add batteries and perform the "pre delivery inspection" which should be 6-8 hours of labor & gas for the boat. $3500 isn't that crazy.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-25-2014, 4:40 PM Reply   
Batteries come in the boat….FYI. Every brand I know of.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-25-2014, 6:13 PM Reply   
In my 20 plus years in the industry, I would say the vast majority of boats are shipped without batteries installed. Boats without batteries are far less likely to suffer some weird electrical calamity when there are no installed batteries. The exception I can think of are small volume ski and wake boat builders, as the vast majority of those boats are actually water tested before shipping, and the builder typically leaves the battery in..
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-25-2014, 6:20 PM Reply   
I should clarify, though.... The two largest builders I've worked with, Tracker Marine and Bayliner, included certificates for batteries that the dealer could redeem for batteries, so the cost of the battery or batteries was already included in the invoice price of the boats.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-25-2014, 7:13 PM Reply   
I was speaking tow boats. But even in your scenario its in the price. So still hold true it isn't a prep cost.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       10-27-2014, 6:23 AM Reply   
I always got a kick out of the "rigging and setup" charge..... Takes an hour to hook up the batteries, install bimini, mirror, carpet, and platform, and back the boat in the water. I just do it all myself now, and then take the service manager for the water test. It costs my dealer $700.00 to have a boat shipped from the factory, to VT. (As long as they time it correctly to have 2 delivered at the same time, and let the carrier do it when they have a backhaul)

I pay $700 for freight, and an hour of my time for setup. Another hour for the water test. Even so, My dealer only charges $1000.00 for rigging and setup, and their cost on freight. $3500 is crazy.
Old    Darren Lamont (83Starsnstripes)      Join Date: Jul 2013       10-27-2014, 11:45 AM Reply   
I have worked with MC, Centurion, Supra, Moomba, & Axis. None of our boats ever come with batteries or certificates for batteries.

It takes us at least 6-8 hours to fully prep a boat. For example, Supras need the tower speakers installed, batteries, de-winterized (engine plugs & hoses), trailer check, water test, and detailed. We also need to unload the boat from the truck with a hired crane which costs $$ and time.
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       10-28-2014, 6:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83Starsnstripes View Post
I have worked with MC, Centurion, Supra, Moomba, & Axis. None of our boats ever come with batteries or certificates for batteries.

It takes us at least 6-8 hours to fully prep a boat. For example, Supras need the tower speakers installed, batteries, de-winterized (engine plugs & hoses), trailer check, water test, and detailed. We also need to unload the boat from the truck with a hired crane which costs $$ and time.
^^
Every dealers set up is different. The one I'm at now we see about 5-6 hours for prep.
Unloading from shipping truck, taking shrink wrap off, removing padding and straps, install tower speakers, bimini, batteries, tune stereo/amps (manufacture doesn't do this), installing prop, drive to the gas station and cost of gas, drive to lake, test everything, drive back, wipe down and cover.

There is a lot more than just hooking up a couple batteries. And I don't know a single brand that includes batteries or certificates.
Also, the freight charge is usually evened out across the country. Meaning the dealership closest to the manufacture pays the same amount in freight as one on the other side of the country.

Last edited by RideGull; 10-28-2014 at 6:41 AM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-28-2014, 6:59 AM Reply   
Tige includes batteries….even hooked up. Just turn the switch on! I'd say your 5-6 hours is a good estimate.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-28-2014, 8:55 AM Reply   
I hate seeing this type of stuff is it taxed different or something if not all I want to know what is the boat/car out the door price. I dont want to negotiate then well that did not include tax tag title dealer prep. Screw that put all the stuff you gotta have and tell me the price. Hate the smoke and mirrors crap.
Old    Darren Lamont (83Starsnstripes)      Join Date: Jul 2013       10-28-2014, 10:45 AM Reply   
^^Totally agree. I don't know why dealers still put the "freight & prep" on after you've agreed on a price for the boat. Just included it so there is no miscommunication.
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       10-30-2014, 10:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
I hate seeing this type of stuff is it taxed different or something if not all I want to know what is the boat/car out the door price. I dont want to negotiate then well that did not include tax tag title dealer prep. Screw that put all the stuff you gotta have and tell me the price. Hate the smoke and mirrors crap.
they should quote you everything BUT tax until the end of negotiation.
dealers dont want to negotiate including tax as they don't have control over that number
Old    Mike Bianchini (Mxguy741)      Join Date: Nov 2013       10-30-2014, 1:24 PM Reply   
my nearly 6 figure 2014 wakesetter had a 8th of a tank of fuel in it when I picked it up..
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-30-2014, 2:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideGull View Post
they should quote you everything BUT tax until the end of negotiation.
dealers dont want to negotiate including tax as they don't have control over that number
I am in sales and quote with tax all the time. It is easily line itemed out. I quote it on $100 deals and 60k deals. Now I realize its not part of the dealers profit. But they know exactly how much it will be once the boat price is quoted.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-30-2014, 4:48 PM Reply   
I'm with Tampa. I like to know what the out the door cost is. Nothing is more irritating that getting quoted a price, only to have the seller tack on a bunch of additional charges once I go to pay.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-31-2014, 4:22 PM Reply   
I think dealers should quote with everything included other than tax and license. The dealers have no control over either and are not included in what I would consider the cost of doing business.
Old    Tom (TomH)      Join Date: Jan 2014       11-01-2014, 8:16 AM Reply   
Why is it so hard to quote tax and license? Yea, they're not a cost of doing business for the dealer, but it's pretty damn easy to put a line item on the bottom of the quote for it after you subtotal everything else out. The dealer knows what the tax rates are and what the license fees are. It's not exactly crazy math.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-01-2014, 8:42 AM Reply   
I think it just matters if the person is looking for an off the hip/ ballpark price(most people who walk into a dealership browsing) or they are a serious buyer ready to put pen to paper. The serious buyer is going to want a line by line OTD price, including Tax, freight, prep, license, etc.

Logical people know they have to pay tax and roughly what that tax rate is. They also know the dealer doesn't get that money and they are just a pass thru to the state tax man. If you are shopping for a high dollar new boat and don't factor in tax you are doing yourself a disservice. Here we are just over 7%, so you are looking at $7000+ on a 100K boat. That has to be factored in.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       11-01-2014, 10:16 AM Reply   
Come on. We are all grown ups. They want to make the boat look as cheap as possible for as long as they can. Because obviously the less expensive it is the better the chance you buy. Then when you see all the fees, taxes, etc, they can easily blame someone else (city, state, feds, company, shipper) for the extra costs. And they figure you probably would not back out at that point. Probably next to no one backs out at that point.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-01-2014, 11:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomH View Post
Why is it so hard to quote tax and license? Yea, they're not a cost of doing business for the dealer, but it's pretty damn easy to put a line item on the bottom of the quote for it after you subtotal everything else out. The dealer knows what the tax rates are and what the license fees are. It's not exactly crazy math.
How many things that you buy have the tax already included? Everybody that is not an idiot knows they have to pay sales tax if their state requires it.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-01-2014, 12:52 PM Reply   
I always negotiate the out the door price. My offer is based on what I'm willing to pay for the item then I add on the sales tax for that price.

By doing that, they can have all the BS fees in the world. I gave the price I'm paying at the end, they can figure out how to make the numbers look.
Old    Killer52 (killer52)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-03-2014, 5:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxguy741 View Post
my nearly 6 figure 2014 wakesetter had a 8th of a tank of fuel in it when I picked it up..
That's not acceptable. Cars, trucks, moto's and boats should all come with a full tank.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       11-05-2014, 4:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
I always negotiate the out the door price. My offer is based on what I'm willing to pay for the item then I add on the sales tax for that price.

By doing that, they can have all the BS fees in the world. I gave the price I'm paying at the end, they can figure out how to make the numbers look.


As a buyer I am with nitrous on this. My price always is the OTD price when I am talking. I make sure that is clear.

While I was a salesman I always broke it down, price of boat, govt taxes n fees ( licensing state tax etc), and standard dealer freight prep fees. Window shoppers got the boat price, serious buyers always got all 3.
Old    Barmac (scott)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-05-2014, 6:59 PM Reply   
I am no pro at this, but I bought a Sea Do a few years back and a dealer that owned his building and land, did not have those fees on the Sea Do when I bought it. I asked him why the other dealer had it, his response was they were BS charges? On a SeaDo it was only $700 but that's $700 worth of Beer in my mind!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-05-2014, 7:15 PM Reply   
Having worked for a dealer I can assure you they are not BS charges. These boats come wrapped up, not on a trailer and not water ready. There is time and money involved getting the boats ready for sale. Shipping is also payed by the dealer and not included in the price of the boat from the manufacturer.

Setting up and shipping a 500 lb. $7500 Sea Doo is a bit different that a 5500 lb. $100,000 wake boat.
Old    Barmac (scott)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-05-2014, 9:11 PM Reply   
I see you read my post! I stated that the owner of the dealership owned the building and he has less overhead based on owning the building! It still a BS charge at $3500. I don't know how much shipping is, but my guess would be well under $3500 and prep to pay some guys $15-$20 hour can't possibly add up to the $3500. Yes it cost some money to get ready, but it is a charge none the less. Like paying points or underwriting fees on a loan. It a bs charge, mostly profit to the company.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-06-2014, 6:15 AM Reply   
Whether you own, lease, or rent the building should make no difference in your pricing. Just because he owns the building doesn't men he has less overhead, there are 1000 other factors you don't know to make that judgment.

$3500 is excessive, but the charges are real. Shipping for us was like $1900 for boat and trailer. You can't charge the guys wage for the prep. You need to charge it at shop rate or your going out of business considering you are covering his SS/ FICA match, FUTA, SUTA, workers comp, etc.

Now most would agree if you want to pay close to MSRP the dealer can eat these charges(they are building them in at that point), but if you want that smoking 20% off MSRP deal there is just not room to build them in.
Old    Barmac (scott)      Join Date: Feb 2010       11-06-2014, 7:50 AM Reply   
I'll stop after this! My point is if you don't have to pay rent say $5000 to $10000 a month depending where your located, then you would be able to absorb some of these costs, based on owning your building you are ahead of the dealer that has these cost each month. That is all I'm trying to say. If a dealer can sell five more units a month without these charges, wouldn't you say he's doing better than the dealer that throws these charges on top of the cost of the boat and sells less units. Yes his margins might be lower but he is making it up in units sold. Without the overhead in rent he CAN absorb at least a prep fee. Shipping fees are a actual cost but if the owner has less overhead then he is ahead of the others based on owning the building. When I bought my Sea Do that is how the particular owner explained it to me, one dealer I was thinking of making my purchase at was so upset he called this dealer and was pretty irate with him because he undercut him based in the prep and shipping. The dealer I bought it from said he sells more units so what's the difference, he makes more on volume than these fees. I guess if I went to buy a new boat I would make an offer on out the door priced. I don't care what these fees are if I'm happy with the out the door price. They can adjust the sell price to fit these fees in at that point and I would be happy.
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       11-06-2014, 8:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott View Post
I'll stop after this! My point is if you don't have to pay rent say $5000 to $10000 a month depending where your located, then you would be able to absorb some of these costs, based on owning your building you are ahead of the dealer that has these cost each month. That is all I'm trying to say. If a dealer can sell five more units a month without these charges, wouldn't you say he's doing better than the dealer that throws these charges on top of the cost of the boat and sells less units. Yes his margins might be lower but he is making it up in units sold. Without the overhead in rent he CAN absorb at least a prep fee. Shipping fees are a actual cost but if the owner has less overhead then he is ahead of the others based on owning the building. When I bought my Sea Do that is how the particular owner explained it to me, one dealer I was thinking of making my purchase at was so upset he called this dealer and was pretty irate with him because he undercut him based in the prep and shipping. The dealer I bought it from said he sells more units so what's the difference, he makes more on volume than these fees. I guess if I went to buy a new boat I would make an offer on out the door priced. I don't care what these fees are if I'm happy with the out the door price. They can adjust the sell price to fit these fees in at that point and I would be happy.
Thats pretty in depth just to explain a prep charge on a seadoo - sounds like that was the owners way to take a deal from another dealership.
As explained above, 2-3k is average freight/prep for these boats. Sure, a dealer can eat these charges, but if they sell 40 new boats a year, that adds up.

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