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Old    MJ (mikejones)      Join Date: Jun 2009       12-30-2013, 6:14 PM Reply   
Need to find a suitable location for two JL 12w6's in a ported box. Preference is to directly fire into the cabin (not under seats in compartments), help and advice appreciated.

-Boat - 2014 Xstar, powered by HD1200/1
-Port coffin is out of the question as there lies an 1100lb hard piped surf sac.
-Starboard cooler area is out of the question as there is also a surf sac hard piped.
-Under the observer seat is an option but would rather it be directly into the cabin, option to build a custom box that fires into a port cut in the interior fiberglass just under observer seat.
-Option under the flip back seat, but not enough depth for w6's.
-Under helm is not really an option with all the electronics and hydraulic steering module.

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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-30-2013, 8:24 PM Reply   
IMO your best to locations are #1 under passenger seat compartment #2 drivers footwell. Or option # 3 both passenger seat and drivers footwell.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-31-2013, 8:48 AM Reply   
As someone who has had a 12w6v2 for 7 years - 600 watts is not enough power for the sub to make it hum. Now having two may negate the issue.

In the past I have run and Arc Audio 500.1 (600 watts), Arc Audio 1000.1 (1000 watts) and now a JL HD750/1. The 600 watts in a JL spec'd enclosure was weak and left me wanting more in order to keep up with my Rev 10's. The 1000.1 really played that sub well but gain matching and sub sonic filter adjusting as well and knowing what distortion sounds like are all key elements to that setup. Now I have the JL Audio 750/1 and I think it is the perfect match for that amp.

Good luck and post up some pictures please!
Old    Odin M (EarmarkMarine)      Join Date: Dec 2013       12-31-2013, 1:22 PM Reply   
Dual 12W6's in bass reflex (sealed) enclosures would sum to an enclosure of 5.5 cubic feet external displacement. And thatís compounded by the fact that ideally you would want both woofers and both ports oriented in the same direction. Funneling that collective sub output through a vent in the boat structure requires a very short vent (for minimal resistance) and a tremendous amount of surface area (not to choke the output). For optimum results you would like to see the output of the woofers and ports sealed against the boat structure thereby nullifying the internal boat console space and providing true direct radiation into the cockpit. Itís unlikely that you can accomplish all of these objectives or even a majority in your particular boat. You may want to re-think the plan so that it better fits the boat. Four sealed W6 10s (new V3 version) might be an option which gives you similar output potential but with slightly less than half the external enclosure displacement.

As for power, certainly a regulated 600 watts is far more robust than unregulated power of the same rating. But here is my main concern with a single HD1200/1 driving dual 12W6s. You are going to be using every bit of the HD1200/1 power. Keep in mind that a HD1200/1 and HD750/1 have the same exact heatsink mass. So in an open-field boat where equipment gets pushed harder, I like the option of dual HD750/1s on dual 12W6s because of the extra heat sink mass and thermal dissipation. Youíve got to create a design for heavy long-term use on a mid July day. However, with four 10s, dual HD1200/1s (600 watts per driver) would be a perfect match.
Old    Odin M (EarmarkMarine)      Join Date: Dec 2013       12-31-2013, 2:06 PM Reply   
Correction, bass reflex is PORTED, not sealed.
Old    MJ (mikejones)      Join Date: Jun 2009       12-31-2013, 2:14 PM Reply   
Odin, thanks. lots of good info there. I see your point on the amp(s) as I was concerned with cooling. I'm not tied to the 12w6 or the 1200/1, but I want to make sure I have enough low end to keep up with the highs, especially if I'm locating subs under a seat. Since I'm a bit of a loss, let me ask you... If I came into your shop and asked for your recommendation (with JL equipment), what would you suggest and where? My existing setup is listed below. If you are familiar with the current gen xstar, you know the layout and the space available under the observer seat, it could fit 4 12's easily.

- 10 JL Audio M770 coaxials, powered by 3 MHD 600/4 amps (2 channels powering stock sub, to be disconnected upon new sub install)
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-31-2013, 4:42 PM Reply   
Mike - have you thought about one 12w6 very well powered in a very well crafted and spec'd out ported box. If you do it right it will hang with the 770. You already have a ton of Midbass coming from those 7.7's.

Like I mentioned earlier, my one 12w6 in a box that Earmark built for me / keeps up very, very well with a set of rev 10's getting 350 watts a piece on my tower. Going with one would certainly make the build much easier....good luck man!!!!
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       12-31-2013, 4:43 PM Reply   
Also are we talking V2 or V3 of that sub - boxes will be a little different!.

Also, Odin is the man when it comes to this stuff esp. JL product!
Old    MJ (mikejones)      Join Date: Jun 2009       12-31-2013, 4:45 PM Reply   
Def talking v3. Scratching my head.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       12-31-2013, 7:34 PM Reply   
I'd go with a bigger sub that can handle more power in a proper box. 13w7? REAudio XXX? Wetsounds XXX v2 ? Maybe loading the port and sub off the floor or side of the boat would be beneficial ? I'm interested in the best way also since I have to build a box for my XXXv2 in my axis.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       01-01-2014, 6:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce2320 View Post
I'd go with a bigger sub that can handle more power in a proper box. 13w7? REAudio XXX? Wetsounds XXX v2 ? Maybe loading the port and sub off the floor or side of the boat would be beneficial ? I'm interested in the best way also since I have to build a box for my XXXv2 in my axis.

Lazy. That box should have been built already.
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       01-01-2014, 1:12 PM Reply   
I can't argue with that
Old    Odin M (EarmarkMarine)      Join Date: Dec 2013       01-02-2014, 10:38 AM Reply   
In the end, output is more about the collective surface area of the subs, the collective power, and how you load the subs (enclosure), plus, how you load the sub/enclosure output into the boat cockpit.

You can accomplish similar results with a variety of driver sizes. A larger woofer, however, does typically have a lower resonance and will reach a bit deeper, although this aspect is somewhat minimized in an open-field boat environment. Again, how you are acoustically loading into the boat is paramount, and will either emphasize or diminish the power of your drivers/enclosure and amplification.

The three pair of 770s in the boat, especially the two pair in the cockpit, will have a much larger impact on the in-boat experience. The in-boat speakers are set into the coaming with substantial reinforcing surrounding surfaces. The same speakers elevated on the tower will not make the same contribution for those down in the boat. So itís not that hard to find balance between the sub and satellites. The question is whether you are after more of a musical balance or prefer more of a dominant low end. For bass sound quality, you lose musicality when the subs overrun the midbass of the 770 satellites, so balance is key. Balance can be easily achieved with the surface area of three 10Ēs or two 12Ēs. More sub is needed if you want serious, extra bass emphasis or if you are trying to project bass away from the boat.

To place the horse before the cart, you really need to begin with the specific boat and design your maximum enclosure external displacement based on what will fit and/or insert into that space via the available opening. From there itís easy to calculate the best woofer/enclosure/amplifier combination according to a set of fixed acoustic principles. There is nothing like having the boat in possession.
Old    MJ (mikejones)      Join Date: Jun 2009       01-02-2014, 11:33 AM Reply   
Maybe it's worth a tow to Dallas. However, my local audio guy may get offended. Ahahaha

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
Old    156452 (WLF)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-04-2014, 8:05 AM Reply   
Mike,
I had not considered the space under the rear flip seat to directly port into the cabin...why do you think that would not work with for a single sub and a custom ported box facing up? Probably a dumb question, but cant you customize the shape of the box as long as the internal cubic feet remains the same?

Also, how big of a difference did you notice when going from the factory set up to the (3) M600's running the 7.7's in the boat?
Old    MJ (mikejones)      Join Date: Jun 2009       01-04-2014, 9:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLF View Post
Mike,
I had not considered the space under the rear flip seat to directly port into the cabin...why do you think that would not work with for a single sub and a custom ported box facing up? Probably a dumb question, but cant you customize the shape of the box as long as the internal cubic feet remains the same?

Also, how big of a difference did you notice when going from the factory set up to the (3) M600's running the 7.7's in the boat?
only problem with that location is the available depth. you'd have to use a shallow mount woofer. the high end subs are too deep to fit.

the difference in the factory amps (M600's) vs the (3) HD600/4 is huge.
Old    156452 (WLF)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-04-2014, 11:18 AM Reply   
Yeah, I took a look at some pictures and I see what you mean...I suppose if you were willing to live without the reversible seat, there may be just enough room if you eliminated the lower cushion. I don't think it would be worth it though...

On a slightly different subject how easy have you found the new Fushion radio controls to be to navigate iPod playlists & control music from the drivers touch screens? I'm hoping the days of having to have it plugged in next to me are behind me.
Old    MJ (mikejones)      Join Date: Jun 2009       01-05-2014, 9:20 AM Reply   
The boat came with the fusion bt-100 bluetooth module which does not allow function from the touch screen. I plan to swap it out for the bt-200 which gives you that functionality.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

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