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Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-29-2016, 9:27 AM Reply   
Did you guys see this? Did anybody demo the big ones yet? I am trying to get my hands on it right now.

Shaun's favorite, shaped from 20 years of Wakeboard passion. Shaun Murray is releasing his 20th Pro Model edition in Hyperlite's 25th anniversary season, simply named; The Murray. Countless hours on the water have lead Shaun to this shape and the feedback has been mind-blowing. The Murray shape begins with a Subtle 3-Stage Rocker, there is no flat spot, the rocker simply increases under foot for a colossal boost of the wake. Carrying on from past shapes Shaun kept the Variable Edge Design and Center Landing Spine making the board enjoyable for all ability levels. The board's edge is rounded between the inserts, sharpening under foot and then cupped at the tip and tail delivering solid edge hold when you want it and forgiveness when you need it. Hyperlite's BIO3 Core and CarboNetX construction keep the Murray super light for easy spinning. This combination makes riding a larger board more suitable and the new 20th Anniversary Murray shape is available in a 145cm and 150cm option. "Ride a Bigger Board"-Shaun Murray
Old    Sonny (airshark360)      Join Date: Jul 2013       03-30-2016, 6:59 AM Reply   
yup, i saw that, really wanted it but I couldn't see myself in a 145 so I went with last years Murray 142 ( up from a 139).
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-30-2016, 11:26 AM Reply   
I think it's really awesome that companies are starting to provide boards for the bigger guys and hope I can try one out soon to see the difference. I never really understood why I would ride a 163cm snowboard (which even feels small) and 143cm wakeboard. I get the dynamics are different but the length would still help on water.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-30-2016, 5:26 PM Reply   
or why the pros who are 5'5-5'8" are riding the same board I am supposed to ride at 6'3 300 lbs. Make no sense at all. I have been testing boards for over 20 years and begging all the companies for bigger product for all of that time. I think there are more dudes in the there 30-50 that weight 200-300 than there are competitive young kids - at least we know the older guys are spending money for their equipment for sure compared to a 20 something pro. That is not a dig on the young guys, but the reality is I know hundreds of guys that weight over 200 lbs and would love a little bigger/softer board for our bodies. I have rode the 160 Noman (first version) and I like where that is headed. It was not stiff enough for a heavy guy to really push, but people under 200 lbs have really enjoyed the feel of it. I sure hope this starts the trend.
Old    Jon (supersonicmi)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-31-2016, 2:27 PM Reply   
I have the '16 Murray in a 150 and I couldn't be more happy with it (I am 6'2, 230lbs). I was nervous about getting such a large board but I have been nothing but pleased with it since making the decision. It has made riding soo much easier in addition to allowing me to ride at a slower speed therefore lessening the brutality of hard landings and crashes. As well the Murray is a great board because is super versatile and user friendly. (as a side note, before I bought this board I actually did the math on the lbs/sq inch of surface area adjusted for speed and results show that the current sizing charts for boards do not properly account for increasing weight and therefore are way off unless one really cranks up the speed at which they ride at.)
Old    Jason Thompson (TopWakeboardStyles)      Join Date: Mar 2016       03-31-2016, 6:32 PM Reply   
I usually ride boards that are recommended for people who are shorter and lighter then I am. I like having the smaller boards because they give me more lift off of my jumps and it makes it easier for me to spin the board. I would rather have that then have a board that is easier to ride at smaller speeds.
Old    Jon (supersonicmi)      Join Date: Sep 2005       03-31-2016, 9:33 PM Reply   
Unless using speed to adjust a smaller board will provide less pop simply due to surface area and physics, but yes it is lighter and more maneuverable so it's a trade off.
For bigger guys, the speed becomes an issue in order to compensate for not having enough surface area. For me riding a 142 at 26mph is approx the same in terms of physics as me riding 150 at 22/23 mph (depending on the boards surface area). depending on how firm one likes the water underneath them, there are only 3 ways to adjust: weight, surface area and speed. I'd have do work out the math but at some point without enough surface area and/or speed to compensate for weight, a lot of pressure will be put on your arms and the board will actually become unstable underneath you due to the downward pressure, kinda like trying to submerge a buoy underwater, it will want to slip to the side to ride back up to the surface. If you usually ride at 23 for example, take the same setup out and try to ride at 17/18 mph. Sure it's great for cruising but big air and tech tricks will be super difficult. Sorry for the rant but hope that clarifies.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-01-2016, 7:34 AM Reply   
Crazy Jon - I have preached this for 20 years. I am forced to ride around 25-27 @ 85' - if I go any slower, the board sits deeper in the water, causing more drag and really slowing things down. While the slingshot 160 I could ride as slow as I want due to no drag, I just could not get the pop I needed. I find when I get to that slower point, I can feel the drag in my lower back and arms. I can tell within 3 minutes if I can ride a board or not and that is without doing any tricks. While surface ares is a very key component you have to throw in drag coefficient to really figure it out I think. Even a guy at 200 is much different than a guy over 250+. The heavier you are the more the board will sit deeper in the water, which you than have to increase speed to compensate for that. I would love to be around 23-25 like most of the guys I ride with - the impact is a tiny bit less, but would be me a little more time to react. Also at he higher speeds it is difficult to ride much closer as there becomes less set up time. Every year I start out trying to ride shorter ropes and slower speeds and realize quickly I just can not do it. For those that will comment - I know go on a diet right? I have been 300-360 for the last 18 years and always rode at this weight and had a handful of inverts and spins. Could not remember the last time I was below 250 - maybe 25 years ago? Anyways its great to see I have some other options.
Old    Jon (supersonicmi)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-01-2016, 10:08 AM Reply   
Jason, well looks like you have been right for about 20 years, too bad not enough people have caught onto this.
if you are interested, here is the very basic math I did (of course it could be made more accurate by adding drag coefficients based upon rocker and base features etc..). I took the profile of 3 pro riders with different size boards and weights and riding speeds
1) divided their weight by the surface area of their board to get a lbs per square inch.
2) adjusted for speed which essentially consists of dividing by riding speed to get lbs per square inch per miler per hour
3) since the result went out too many decimal places I multiplied by 100 to make it a more workable number.
what I found from this is that the results from the pro rider profiles were all almost exactly the same even though they had different weights, speeds and board surface area. this suggests that there is sweet spot for the amount of downward pressure to aim for, or not to exceed. next I looked up the surface area of about 15 different boards and sizes and plugged my personal info into the calculation for each and solved for the speed necessary to keep the end result the same. this is what shows that the physics are the same riding a smaller board faster versus a bigger board slower. of course this math is rough so I tried riding a number of the setups at different speeds and it seemed to be directionally correct with what the math suggested.
so before anyone starts to try to poke holes in the math, i'm sure that if someone wants to take the time they can refine the calcs to be more accurate but these basic calcs do enough to point someone in the right direction.
one thing this doesn't take into account regarding pop is the stiffness of a board, I imagine this is the issue noted with the slingshot 160, if it is a really soft board and a heavy rider, then the flex is probably absorbing some of the energy being generated off the wake and thus reducing pop.
all and all I am stoked that companies are starting to come out with wider size ranges and it should do a lot to grow the sport for adults since there are many adults out there who don't want to rider super fast and weigh more that the 180lbs or less that the majority of wakeboards are made for.
Old    Jason Thompson (TopWakeboardStyles)      Join Date: Mar 2016       04-01-2016, 11:17 AM Reply   
Because I sit lower in the water with a smaller board I get more pop off the wake. Yes there is less surface area but there is less weight and more water pushing off the bottom of the board. If I ride a bigger board I am higher up in the water which cause me to hit less of the wake and it launches me easier. The more force that I hit the wake with the higher I go. If I am lower I am hitting more wake and creating more force plus the board is lighter which makes it easier to push off the wake. This is just some things that I have found through personal experience. I could be wrong but I have always gotten more pop off of a smaller board.
Old    Jon (supersonicmi)      Join Date: Sep 2005       04-01-2016, 11:33 AM Reply   
I guess it just lends more credit to the fact there much be a sweet spot between not enough downward pressure on the water to generate energy off the wake and too much pressure to where one is just plowing through the water and not getting rebound from it. interesting.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-04-2016, 8:04 AM Reply   
Yhea Jon - I have never done the math but that is super cool. I know - if the board is too soft or not enough square feet = sore back/arms for me and dragging. Its funny cause in the early days I rode a 135 Iconn Best Board and than a 135 LF Fly board and aways had to be on aggressive edge to build any speed and than if I did not land just perfect, I would go out the front. I have found some of the wider/shorter boards like Byerly AR1 boards - when I am on point I really enjoy them, but when I am not I really struggle to time the speed/pop just right. it makes for a very inconstant ride. It is not the board's fault obviously, I have rode probably 20 boards in the last 3-4 years in an effort to find the right combination that just lets me ride and not think. Currently go back and fourth between HL Kruz and LF Trip - They board seem to have minimal drag and enough square feet, but I still have to ride faster than I would like. can't wait to try this new board. A few riders I know have sad it looks to be a good match for me.
Old    Jack (miljack)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-13-2016, 3:23 AM Reply   
@Buffalo, does this mean you've given up on the Nomad? Did you try the '16 version of the Nomad, do you know if any changes were made in the layup of that board?

After you get to ride your new Murray, could you compare the Nomad you rode vs. the Murray?
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-13-2016, 7:28 AM Reply   
Hey Jack - I have never 100% switched to the Nomad as it was just not stiff enough of me. I have yet to ride the '16 nomad, but I understand is stiffer.I love many things about the Nomad, but just could not get the pop out of it for my bigger tricks. I believe it is more a function of my weight pushing the flex too much on the board than anything else. Those boards are meant to flex and snap back, but i think if you flex it to much, than it wont snap back correctly.

I have my new Murray and hope to be on it in the next few days. It is actually similar shape to the nomad, so should be interesting. it feels very stiff which should help me to. i have talked with a few "bigger" guys that have rode it already and love it. I will absolutely do a write up and be able to compare it to the Marek/Kruz/Trip/SuperTrip/Nomad. Either way I am super stoked to see bigger boats and hoping this is finally the perfect combination!
Old    Jack (miljack)      Join Date: Feb 2006       04-28-2016, 5:36 AM Reply   
@Buffalow, any boot time yet on the new Murray?? Curious to get your take on that board...
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-28-2016, 8:11 AM Reply   
not yet Jack, but hope to in the next 7 days. Work has been insane and its seems when I have had time, the weather has not cooperated. As soon as I do, I will post here first for sure.
Old    Ryan Fitzgerald (Ryan3110)      Join Date: Feb 2013       05-14-2016, 6:24 PM Reply   
looking for an update. I'm interested in the Murray 150. I'm 6'5 220.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-16-2016, 8:59 AM Reply   
Got on the 150 Murray for a quick set on Saturday. This was my first set for the season and behind someone else's boat on not pristine condition. If was very slippery compared to what I am used to, but very smooth and good pop. Based on early parts of these discussion I can say that I can determine a boards ride for me in under 5 minutes. I rode for probably 20 minutes and like it, which is very rare. This tells me it was not dragging and that it was stiff enough. I also notice I was able to slow the boat 1 mph, which is a good thing. This is just a first impression however and I will need to send more time on it this week. It is very encouraging for sure though.
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       05-16-2016, 7:36 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
Got on the 150 Murray for a quick set on Saturday. This was my first set for the season and behind someone else's boat on not pristine condition. If was very slippery compared to what I am used to, but very smooth and good pop. Based on early parts of these discussion I can say that I can determine a boards ride for me in under 5 minutes. I rode for probably 20 minutes and like it, which is very rare. This tells me it was not dragging and that it was stiff enough. I also notice I was able to slow the boat 1 mph, which is a good thing. This is just a first impression however and I will need to send more time on it this week. It is very encouraging for sure though.
Throw the 1" P wings on it Jason. I like lose boards and I felt with the .8s it was a bit to lose/slippery for me. I threw on some 1" fins and now I am in love with this board. I'm riding the 144 but am 5' 10" 185-190 lbs. Super fast, soft landings and great pop.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-17-2016, 7:48 AM Reply   
Steve - that was my plan - I like a locked in board so the slippery feel is a bit much for me. I like a fast board so i think this will be a good fit. I have talked to several big boys that have switched over to it and love it, so I think i will be in the same. Super pumped to get back on it for sure. I'll get some photos and more details.


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