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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-30-2014, 9:25 PM Reply   
Cordless Brushless tools

Handtools are very personal we each have our favorites I guess they're much like boats. But one thing that is common throughout is the invention or implantation of brushless motors to cordless tools. Traditionally most electric tools have used what's called a brushed or canned motor. The next generation of tools is using brushless technology. Many of these tools and manufacturers are claiming 35 to 45% efficiency in both power and run time. many of you might have noticed a great deal in tool performance when you switched over from lead acid or NiCad to lithium ion batteries, I think you will notice the same sort of benefits of brushless technology more power and longer run time along with a lighter more balanced tool.

Many manufacturers are slow to switch over but trust me it's coming.

Milwaukee's new line of cordless tools in the "fuel" line are brushless. They are pushing a 12v system and a 18volt system (Disclaimer) last year Milwaukee branded some of their tools "fuel" and they were not brushless motor tools. This year they have set aside all brushless tools to be branded under the fuel line so make sure you know what you're getting before you buy it

DeWalts brushless tools are dubbed the "XR" series for extra run time and are running the 20volt system

The Bosch tools say EC brushless right on them. But they only have a very small amount of brushless now. They say the whole line will be brushless at least not this year. They also have the 12 and 18 volt system. As well as higher voltage offerings

As far as I could see Milwaukee seems to have the largest selection of brushless tools right now followed by Dewalt.

I'm not sure how Mikita or Rigid or any of the other tool manufacturers are branding their brushless line or how many they have.

Ryobi must have the largest selection of cordless tools that use the same battery but I have not seen any mention of a brushless system from them and I wouldn't expect them to.


Porter cable seems to have a big selection of cordless tools and they seem to try and set them selfs apart by switching to 20volt linked system but I didn't see any brushless.


Manufacturers will slowly be implementing brushless tools into their tool lineup so it wouldn't surprise me to see many of the popular tools now on sale soon so as to make way for the new brushless tools.

The trend I am noticing is
Smaller and lighter is better. It's amazing what and how powerful the 12 V line of drills and impact drivers are. The 12 V tools look like toys but it's amazing how well they work. With the implementation of brushless motors it would not surprise me that a new brushless 12 V drill could and would outperform a traditional 18 V drill. Many people are realizing that they have way too much tool for the job and that the smaller lighter 12 full tools work just fine. I personally have been drinking the Bosh Kool aid and have sold all my Ryobi tools and will Slowly start to replace all my tools with Bosh. I'm going to try and buy only brushless offerings but it may take a while. This was my first Brushless combo kit. It's a impact driver and a hammer drill with a charger and 2 battery's. You can buy the kit in a Hard plastic case bosh calls it a L box and they are stackable portable tool box Cary cases.

This is the DeWalt XR
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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-30-2014, 9:26 PM Reply   
This is the 20 volt Porter Cable
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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-30-2014, 9:27 PM Reply   
This is the Bosh kit I picked up.
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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-30-2014, 9:28 PM Reply   
Here is the impact driver.
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Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       06-30-2014, 10:57 PM Reply   
I have the makita 3 speed brushless impact 18v drivers and side by side to my m18v non brushless there is no comparison. In fact if two guys are screwing down deck boards the brushless guy will set about 1/3 more screws. If the guy using the brushless picks up the non brushless he will first think his battery is dying.

This is the one I'm referring to: http://www.makitatools.com/en-us/Mod...x?Name=LXDT01Z
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-01-2014, 2:03 AM Reply   
Rob thanks for the Info on the Makita stuff:

More propaganda: some tool makers simply added a brushless motor to the current tool and called it a day while other tool makers completely re designed the tool to take advantage of all that brushless has to offer. I have no idea if Makitas brushless is Re make or a redesign with the same exterior case as the Orignal brushed you have.

My thoughts are this I think tool makers are going to have a hard time selling the current stuff when brushless fully comes out. I'm guessing tool makers are either holding back or comming out slow with the brushless stuff so as not to make their current brushed tools look lack luster. I'm guessing they are depleting stock and as supply increases you will see more of next years tools become brushless.
Old    Derek Huber (yjwrangler95)      Join Date: Oct 2011       07-01-2014, 7:14 AM Reply   
I have the porter cable set and been happy with them. I use them about 3 times a week on average. They aren't DeWalt or Makita but for the price they suite me well.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-01-2014, 8:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Rob thanks for the Info on the Makita stuff:

More propaganda: some tool makers simply added a brushless motor to the current tool and called it a day while other tool makers completely re designed the tool to take advantage of all that brushless has to offer. I have no idea if Makitas brushless is Re make or a redesign with the same exterior case as the Original.


You have to know what you are looking at with Makita (I've found the same to be true with others as well) because they have light duty/ medium duty/ heavy duty. The main brushless impact Home Depot sells is the xdt08, which has 1420in. Lbs. max torque while the one I listed above has 1500 and three speeds. They don't carry that one at Home Depot, they also have a new lxtd06 that is like the one I listed above but shifts automatically that I haven't tried. I have had the xdt08 side by side to my three speed and while it is better than non brushless it is definitely lighter duty than the three speeds.

Same with 18v drills. Even tho neither are brushless the main one you get in kits or at depot is a bhp452. While it works fine it doesn't hold a candle to the bhp454.
I have numerous of both of these and there's no comparison: http://www.makitatools.com/en-us/Mod...x?Name=BHP454Z

It's got 560 in. lbs. compared to the 452 that has 450 in. lbs.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-01-2014, 9:03 AM Reply   
Derek: The Porter Cable stuff seems nice. I haven't seen their cordless hand tools anywhere but Lowes. But they seem to be going after Ryobi (Home Depots) house brand all the tools porter cable makes seem to be going head to head with them. These starter kits are like Crack! they are a great deal and they get you hooked on a brand and then the next thing you know you have quite a collection of all the same tools and battery's. The Ryobi stuff worked great for me for years but I ended up getting a taste of what professional grade tools worked like. The cordless drill and impact drivers are all close in feel but when it comes to cutting tools like Jig Saws and direct drives the difference is HUGE. The entry level tools just don't or can't cut like the professional grade stuff. The danger is you get the entry level stuff just thinking "im just gonna do small DIY stuff" and then you end up doing more and more projects


Rob sounds like you know quite a bit about Makita and thanks for the heads up, No doubt that Makita makes some of the best cordless tool's I always thought Makita tools were more $ then the other offerings but when you compare them to all the others they are very reasonably priced for what you get. I wish tool makers would stop listing Inch pound of torque and list foot pounds of torque. Its confusing to have to convert back and forth.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-01-2014, 9:26 AM Reply   
None of those tools hold a candle to the Snap-On CT8810 Cordless 3/8" impact. It boats 325 Foot Pounds of break away torque. It will take a 7/8" bolt torqued to 300 foot pounds of torque loose in under 5 seconds. It will also take 480 bolts loose that are torqued to 200 foot pounds of torque on one battery charge. It's a 18 volt Lithium Ion battery that has a digital fuel gauge.Free speed is 2400 rpm's with 3480 blows per minute. It packs a lot of punch in it's 4.5 lb. package.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-01-2014, 9:31 AM Reply   
560 in. lbs is 46.66 Ft. Lbs. of torque. That's less than 15% of the Snap - on CT8810'S Torque. Not even in the conversation.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-01-2014, 9:39 AM Reply   
Snap-on also makes a 1/4 or 3/8 " cordless impact. It is smaller and lighter than the CT8810 but it only has 70 ft lbs of torque.They have a 14.4 volt Lithium Ion battery.They weigh less than 2 lbs.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-01-2014, 9:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
560 in. lbs is 46.66 Ft. Lbs. of torque. That's less than 15% of the Snap - on CT8810'S Torque. Not even in the conversation.

Let it go bro, you are talking about an impact wrench, I'm talking about impact drivers and drill drivers. But your comments certainly imply the conversation is over lol!
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-01-2014, 9:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Derek:
Rob sounds like you know quite a bit about Makita and thanks for the heads up, No doubt that Makita makes some of the best cordless tool's I always thought Makita tools were more $ then the other offerings but when you compare them to all the others they are very reasonably priced for what you get. I wish tool makers would stop listing Inch pound of torque and list foot pounds of torque. Its confusing to have to convert back and forth.

Not sure if you remember me from your saw thread
I run Makita now but have dewalt, ryobi, rigid you name it. My favorites are Makita and Milwaukee.
A guy could by this kit and add a saw for $80.
http://www.cpooutlets.com/factory-re...efault,pd.html
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-01-2014, 10:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotmods View Post
Let it go bro, you are talking about an impact wrench, I'm talking about impact drivers and drill drivers. But your comments certainly imply the conversation is over lol!
I was referring to the impact you mentioned that had 1420 in lbs or 118 ft lbs of torque. Sorry for the mix up. Snap-on also makes a 18volt drill with 560 in lbs of torque. It really depends on what you are using them for. Sorry if i ruffled any feathers.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-01-2014, 10:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
I was referring to the impact you mentioned that had 1420 in lbs or 118 ft lbs of torque. Sorry for the mix up. Snap-on also makes a 18volt drill with 560 in lbs of torque. It really depends on what you are using them for. Sorry if i ruffled any feathers.

No worries, this is the impact wrench I run. http://www.cpooutlets.com/makita-btw...s-and-wrenches

325ft. lbs torque but it's not as compact nor a snap on. Snap On is definitely the envy of any tool guy!
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-01-2014, 10:28 AM Reply   
Ok Rob; AKA SAW MASTER!!!

Robert T:
I have seen the Snap On Impact Wrench, And yes they are real nice, The cordless impact wrench is a awesome tool and a pretty new tool for me. IMO it's a great tool to have in your truck when you tow way better then a Lug wrench to zip lug nuts on and off. This Milwaukee boasts 700 Ft Lbs of torque but Rob is correct Robert T your talking apples and we are talking oranges
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...&item=66416736

This Milwaukee looked real cool it was no bigger then my small 18v impact driver, It was a brush-less impact wrench 3/8 Impact that does 200 ft lbs enough to do lug nuts no problem
Down side is this impact is $300 just for the tool.
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Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-01-2014, 11:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Ok Rob; AKA SAW MASTER!!!
.

Lol! How's that Bosch "LT" treating you?

Not surprised to see you looking as brushless drivers now!
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-01-2014, 3:59 PM Reply   
The BOSH worm drive has got some dust on it and it's dying to make the Boat step I have planed. That's the next time it's gonna see some action. I got rid of all my Skill (brand) saws and now I just have the BOSH LT and a BOSH D handle Jig. The only other Tools I would consider would be FESTOOL, Super Expensive and they seem more geared towards wood refinishing. Although Im gonna have to pull the trigger on a FESTOOL shinex polisher soon
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-02-2014, 2:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
The BOSH worm drive has got some dust on it and it's dying to make the Boat step I have planed. That's the next time it's gonna see some action. I got rid of all my Skill (brand) saws and now I just have the BOSH LT and a BOSH D handle Jig. The only other Tools I would consider would be FESTOOL, Super Expensive and they seem more geared towards wood refinishing. Although Im gonna have to pull the trigger on a FESTOOL shinex polisher soon
Any reason for ditching Skil?
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-02-2014, 3:15 PM Reply   
The Skill saws I was talking about were a Direct Drive and a Jig, The jig saw was a Toy and it had so much blade deflection when you cut thick stuff like MDF it looked like a Miter cut That Skill was great for straight cuts on thin material but thick stuff "Forgetaboutit"
The direct drive was another toy. The Base on it would not lock in place no matter how tight you sinched it down. And the guide marks on the base did not line up with where the blade would do its cut. I never used the guide I would always watch the blade cause it was so off. Thoes tools were fin for the once in a blue moon project.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-12-2014, 7:49 AM Reply   
I wanted to report back on the New BOSH drills I got. Super impressed with how smooth they are. The way the drills can ease into the power is very smooth. It makes for more presision drilling Example. I ended to make a elongated "oval shaped " hole and I usuaually drill 2 holes side by side very close together and then angle the drill but between the to holes and bridge the gap between the 2 holes making the oval shaped hole. It's not the best way to do it cause sometimes it's not very semetrical. Well I can say I made some of the best ovals I have done in some pretty thick aluminum.
With how smooth they start up you can keep the bit Exactley where you want/need it. My old tools seemed to jeark and twist more at start up. These are way more balanced and they don't torque roll nearly as much when you gun them from a dead start to full speed.

#2 awesome feature. On the drill the Chuck locks when your finger is off the trigger. You don't have to spin the drill the opasate way to tighten or loosen the bits out if the chuck anymore. The chuck has a Auto Lock that holds the motor from spinning so when you tighten you don't have to have your finger on the trigger to stop the motor from spinning.

Over all I'm pretty impressed with the brushless tools so far.
I orderd the 18v impact gun. It's got 500 foot Lbs of torque.
I'll post up a pic of it when I get it next week. My neighbor has some real rusty lug nuts that I wanna break this thing in on
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-12-2014, 4:17 PM Reply   
Nice! I like all my BOSCH tools!
Old    Eric Silva (getssum)      Join Date: Jul 2005       07-17-2014, 1:18 PM Reply   
I purchased the Milwaukee Fuel Drill/Driver combo kit and have ZERO regrets. The batteries last FOREVER!
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-23-2014, 5:43 PM Reply   
I got my BOSH Impact gun and Grinder.
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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-23-2014, 5:44 PM Reply   
Here is the impact gun 500 Ft lbs
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Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-24-2014, 5:47 AM Reply   
Snap-On's CT7850 1/2" IMPACT has 700 lb ft of break away torque and 610 lb ft of constant turning torque.It's a 18 volt lithium ion battery[comes with 2] and comes with a charger and tote bag. Two year warranty on the batteries which are rated at 1000 cycles and have their own fuel gauges.Snap-On Tools…….Nothing Even Comes Close!
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-24-2014, 6:01 PM Reply   
No doubt snap on makes some of the best hand tools. But Now that we are talking more apples to apples comparison and a impact wrench to impact wrench. The only downside I can see with the snap on is! The battery and depending on what you are actually doing two or 300 foot-pounds works just fine! But I do understand for some oddball heavy duty jobs you could need the 700 pounds. I l personally like all of my cordless tools to utilize the same batteries. And I do realize that not all tools manufacturers are equal. Snap on makes no wood working tools. And I'm sure they're cordless tools are probably made by a third party anyways so you're really not getting a true snap on electric tool. But I do understand that not one brand makes all the best tools and that sometimes you have to switch brands to get the best tool. Part of choosing a cordless brand tool is trying to pick one that has the most amount of tools you would actually use so that all of your batteries match and you don't have to have three or four different brand battery chargers sitting on your bench.
Why the way Robert are you a snap on rep?
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-25-2014, 6:38 PM Reply   
I was a Snap On rep but I retired in March of this year after 27 years. Snap on does make their own cordless tools in Murphy North Carolina.All their 18 volt tools share the same battery. Your right they don't make wood working tools but they do have a 18 volt reciprocating saw and a 18 volt hammer drill as well as a 18 volt flashlight. All top of the line tools.
Old    Rob Fullerton (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-26-2014, 8:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
I got my BOSH Impact gun and Grinder.

That BOSCH sure is purdy.

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