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Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-23-2015, 7:31 PM Reply   
If you were asked to go out and buy a boat for someone with the main objective to surf...which boat would you buy in either a 2014 or 2015 model? As well, a boat that surfs like a champ and is simple to setup every time you hit the lake. Let's put cost aside, because if you believe a $60k Axis is the best I want to hear that or if you truly believe you need to spend $150k on a Tige ASR then fire away....

As you can tell I am trying to sort out this sh*t and make a decision. And no I do not have time to go around demoing with sales schmucks.
Old    Larry Ashburn (lashburn1)      Join Date: Oct 2014       08-23-2015, 7:46 PM Reply   
Well it's not gonna be the Axis or the ASR
Cost aside Centurion and Tige' have the Surf thing down. Just not the ASR
Mastercraft offers the X23 and Nautique the G21-23 with supposedly better systems for 2016
From BU people would say the LSV23 with extra Sacs.

I have the GeN2 X30 with Lead and Sacs , but it's no longer the Front runner.
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-24-2015, 4:11 AM Reply   
Good stuff. Would you then say the Supreme is up there too due to Centurion? Or is the Cent and Sup very different hulls, etc?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-24-2015, 5:39 AM Reply   
Best most reliable surf boat in my opinion is the 2014 supreme 226. Factory enzo sacks, reversible ballast pumps ,bow tank, zero off ,and PCM power. Super easy to set up and the wave is awesome on both sides. They got it right in 14 but then changed it with new styling and in hull ballast for 2015 but same awesome wake . If the wake is what is most important to you go demo the 226 will blow you away.
Old    Patrick Cuezze (pcuezze)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-24-2015, 5:49 AM Reply   
I have an X23 (bias alert) I've ridden a lot of different boats. Unfortunately, the Z3 and the Malibu 23LSV are still on my list of "must-ride". However, I have a fair amount of time behind an Enzo, a Supra SA, and several G23's. I think the Supra is the best all around boat I've been on. That means you won't compromise the wakeboard wake or the surf wake. Both are incredible wakes. There is just no denying the G23's wakeboard wake. It's so clean at all speeds and is an incredible boat for beginners (as well, obviously, for pros). I just have not found the G23 surf wake to be impressive. It can get very tall but seems always to be too short. Though the wake is clean, I didn't find it had near the push of the Enzo, the Supra, or my X23. The Enzo left me kind of non-plussed. It's a great surf wake, no doubt, but I didn't find it so heads and shoulders above the rest that it was worth giving away the wakeboard wake entirely. Plus the lack of gates pre-2016 (or 2015??) makes it less useful for days when you've got a boat full of regular and goofy riders. Since I ride my X23 wake frequently, it's hard for me to be objective about it - I love it. However, it is water sensitive (in rough water, it's very hard to keep a clean lip) and the mellow setting seems to lack push further back. We always ride on the steep setting. The x23 wakeboard wake has surprised us.

You've probably been told that Nautique and Mastercraft are the kings of build quality, particularly in the interior. With that said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Supra build quality and I was pleasantly surprised by some of the subtle touches in the Centurion. There is nothing about the interior of any of these boats that will embarrass you though I suspect the vinyl in the Centurion will not hold up with the other 3 I mentioned. Aside from that, the X30 is a fantastic surfing boat with a respectable wakeboard wake as are several of Nautique's offerings. I know that surfing is your main objective, but don't discount other watersports right away. Excepting the Centurion, these other boats do wake boarding really well. With so many offerings, I would demand the boat multitask unless i was towing at a professional level.

I have seen the LSV23 from a distance and the surf wake looks killer. I would definitely put it on your list to test out. And, of course, the Z3 has a huge fan base though I've never even seen the surf wake on that boat.

Go drive them and have fun.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       08-24-2015, 1:50 PM Reply   
personally if it was my coin and money was no object, I'm still a fan of no replacement for weight and do not have a problem driving a listed boat.
I would only be testing centurion and tige. it would either be the 23ft enzo or the z3.

don't think many people keep these boats for 10 years anymore and any of the major brands are going to hold up well enough if taken care of to be a good resale value so I would not put a lot of time/energy into build quality. anymore, the difference between a "pricepoint" and a "high end" boat are more the actual finishes and available options.

basing this all of the op's request to surf. there are probably boats out there that will surf almost as good as the 2 above and have much better wakeboard waves, but this is posted in the surfing section and would be my choice if it was my $$ as all i do is surf as well.

good luck. you have a high class problem
Old    D (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       08-24-2015, 2:12 PM Reply   
If $$$ was no object then it would be the G23 or one of the new "big boats" from Supra. Since it was my dough I got the best surf wake - 14 V226.
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-24-2015, 3:33 PM Reply   
So this is all really awesome info. Here's the progress I made today...

I am not going to buy a $80-$90k boat. Just can't do it, maybe in 3-4yrs.

So....does this mean I am buying a Supreme V226? Should I even look at the Axis T23?
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-24-2015, 4:21 PM Reply   
Sounds like 226 is your boat if you care only about surf at that price level
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-24-2015, 4:39 PM Reply   
The supreme is awesome and the build quailty is great. The 226 is by far nicer than the axis . The supreme will by far have a better ride and as for the surf wake the supreme kills it. We custom ordered our 226 in 14 and will have 300 hours on it by end of season without one problem. Don't by into the surf system the 226 makes a better wave without it. You can get a 16 for under 70k or go big with the 238 for a few grand more. For the record I have surfed most of the surf boats out there and you have to spend a bunch of cash to top the supreme surf wake and its not by much.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-24-2015, 4:43 PM Reply   
Not sure where you are located but hillside Honda in lakeport California has a brand new left over 14 226 with custom sacks and a free board with five year warranty for 59,900 only thing is it looks like a flag LOL
Old    Matthew Smith (LKASurfing)      Join Date: Nov 2011       08-24-2015, 4:59 PM Reply   
I am biased, but I teach surf lessons and have been behind a lot of different boats over the years. Hands down for me, I love the Enzo SV hulls, SV244 then the SV233. I the FS wake is great, but for a lot of reasons I prefer the SV. I have been behind a lot of Malibu / Axis hulls. They are decent with the gates for your beginner to average riders. I have gotten amazing wakes out of a LSV 23, but that is with a ton of weight & listed.
Belive it or not, best non Enzo I have been behind this summer was a Moomba! The X23 Mastercraft was probably the worst Surf wake I have been on for a "Surf Boat" The Nautique G boats a really good as well. Supreme is outstanding Surf wake, if you want a budget.
I am a fan of a listed boat. Less fuel, less ware & tare, and the boat maneuvers easier.
anyway....for what it's worth...ENZO WAKE!!!!
Old    Larry Ashburn (lashburn1)      Join Date: Oct 2014       08-24-2015, 5:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKASurfing View Post
I am biased, but I teach surf lessons and have been behind a lot of different boats over the years. Hands down for me, I love the Enzo SV hulls, SV244 then the SV233. I the FS wake is great, but for a lot of reasons I prefer the SV. I have been behind a lot of Malibu / Axis hulls. They are decent with the gates for your beginner to average riders. I have gotten amazing wakes out of a LSV 23, but that is with a ton of weight & listed.
Belive it or not, best non Enzo I have been behind this summer was a Moomba! The X23 Mastercraft was probably the worst Surf wake I have been on for a "Surf Boat" The Nautique G boats a really good as well. Supreme is outstanding Surf wake, if you want a budget.
I am a fan of a listed boat. Less fuel, less ware & tare, and the boat maneuvers easier.
anyway....for what it's worth...ENZO WAKE!!!!
What is the BEST NON-Listed Boat for Surf you have experienced?
Old    Brain Rinse (brainrinse)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-24-2015, 5:04 PM Reply   
Which Moomba?
Old    Matthew Smith (LKASurfing)      Join Date: Nov 2011       08-24-2015, 5:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brainrinse View Post
Which Moomba?
They are all good wakes. However, when piling people to one side to get a little better wake or running about a 60/40 split It was still the Moomba Mojo. It was pretty steep, had a good lip & the length was pretty decent. I was really impressed with it!!

From what I have seen and experienced, extra weight is needed on these evenly weighted boats to get a competition level wake. Even an A24 Axis I was on with 9 people had a 500lb in the bow & 500 on the rear floor. Was, big, but very soft in the rear without a good limp closer up.

I have also spoken with a few people that rode the Supra at the NW comp this season & stated the wake was really good for an "evenly" weighted boat. However, I do not know the set up or how much extra weight was needed. I have ridden behind an Enzo FS33 evenly weighted, stock it is not impressive at all, with about 700lbs of extra weight it was good. Yet the stock listed weight is great.

Not trying to bash any of these boats....We all have what we prefer, just trying to share my opinion.
Old    Larry Ashburn (lashburn1)      Join Date: Oct 2014       08-24-2015, 5:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKASurfing View Post
They are all good wakes. However, when piling people to one side to get a little better wake or running about a 60/40 split It was still the Moomba Mojo. It was pretty steep, had a good lip & the length was pretty decent. I was really impressed with it!!

From what I have seen and experienced, extra weight is needed on these evenly weighted boats to get a competition level wake. Even an A24 Axis I was on with 9 people had a 500lb in the bow & 500 on the rear floor. Was, big, but very soft in the rear without a good limp closer up.

I have also spoken with a few people that rode the Supra at the NW comp this season & stated the wake was really good for an "evenly" weighted boat. However, I do not know the set up or how much extra weight was needed. I have ridden behind an Enzo FS33 evenly weighted, stock it is not impressive at all, with about 700lbs of extra weight it was good. Yet the stock listed weight is great.

Not trying to bash any of these boats....We all have what we prefer, just trying to share my opinion.
Good answer...I don't like to bash Boats either...we are lucky to have them.

We had a List 2013 X30 ..is was nice, surf was good...
Wife did not like listing the Boat and driving it like that etc...
We chose a leftover 2014 X30 GEN2 for the current ride..
Its about the Same as the Listed 30 for Us...so we are Happy

But who doesn't want more...LOL
Old    Brain Rinse (brainrinse)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-24-2015, 6:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKASurfing View Post
They are all good wakes. However, when piling people to one side to get a little better wake or running about a 60/40 split It was still the Moomba Mojo. It was pretty steep, had a good lip & the length was pretty decent. I was really impressed with it!!

From what I have seen and experienced, extra weight is needed on these evenly weighted boats to get a competition level wake. Even an A24 Axis I was on with 9 people had a 500lb in the bow & 500 on the rear floor. Was, big, but very soft in the rear without a good limp closer up.

I have also spoken with a few people that rode the Supra at the NW comp this season & stated the wake was really good for an "evenly" weighted boat. However, I do not know the set up or how much extra weight was needed. I have ridden behind an Enzo FS33 evenly weighted, stock it is not impressive at all, with about 700lbs of extra weight it was good. Yet the stock listed weight is great.

Not trying to bash any of these boats....We all have what we prefer, just trying to share my opinion.
I had an 08 Moomba and loved it so glad to hear they are still putting out good wakes on the new hulls. Seems like everyone has stepped up their game, big time. Which is good given the pricing.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-24-2015, 6:33 PM Reply   
entertaining thread….
Old    Grant (Minnesotasurfer)      Join Date: Feb 2015       08-24-2015, 7:31 PM Reply   
The best not listed boat I have ridden for the money is by far the Supreme S226 with quick surf.It's very simple to setup. No touch screens to worry about, handles rough water great, its massive and deep inside the boat, and has a great warranty.
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       08-25-2015, 4:16 AM Reply   
well, op changed the rules so here would be my choices to try out:
supreme 226
mb 21ft
moomba craz.

have ridden the craz and 226 and seen the wake on the 21v. would be happy with any of them. I would shy away from axis as I(personally) don't like the interiors and windshield frame. they might surf better than any of the above, but you still have to like what you buy and their boats are just plain ugly to me.
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-25-2015, 5:29 AM Reply   
So if the Supreme is, based on responses, the front runner for lower price point...only keep with S226 or can you get away with the S21?
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-25-2015, 5:43 AM Reply   
Oh, and what if I told you the closest Supreme dealer/service is over an hour away but Axis/Moomba/MB is only 10 minutes and where my boat sleeps at night too...?
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       08-25-2015, 6:19 AM Reply   
^ only you can answer that question. no biggie for me as I have no issues doing the maintenance on my boat myself, but others would only allow the dealer to touch it.

if supreme/moomba are close, those are the 2 I would shop. both are great boats. both need additional sacks to surf so either one will have some additional cost but both will throw a good wave. and if your garage and wallet can handle it, 226 over s21.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-25-2015, 7:13 AM Reply   
It really all depends on your budget... but for 60-70k, Axis T22, T23 and A24 are AMAZING waves. The Malibu 22VLX, 23LSV and 25LSV are great as well.

Mastercraft X20 and X23 with Gen2 are also known to be great surf boats. Obviously as well, You would be doing yourself a disservice by not looking at the FS series boats by Centurion.

I'm not sold on Supreme as a brand. I know they are owned by Fineline/Correct Craft now, but up until a year ago when Fineline scooped them up, they've not had much of a reputation. Even if the surf wave is slightly better, I'd still go Axis before Supreme just based on brand recognition and surf-system alone. When it comes to resale, those 2 things matter BIG TIME.
Old     (OneCent)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-25-2015, 11:45 AM Reply   
i'm a fan of "subfloor ballast has to be enough" for a good surfwake, thats why i like the G ;-)
Old    Ryan Stover (onetogofast)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-25-2015, 12:12 PM Reply   
MB B52 with GSA and it will bring the storm!!!
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-25-2015, 3:46 PM Reply   
Ok. So this is all amazing information! Sincerely, thank you very much for all the input.

Now to my last question/scenario. If I had to go back in years - to let's say - a 2012 or 2013 to really save some cost, what is the recommendation for boat/company that got it right back then before all the gates and whatnot?!?
Old    Ryan Stover (onetogofast)      Join Date: Jun 2012       08-25-2015, 4:35 PM Reply   
MB
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-25-2015, 6:25 PM Reply   
Centurion or supreme no bags on the seats and one of the best surf wakes out there . If you want a great surf wake and don't want to shell out for all the bolt on's you need a deep V hull and you need to list the boat.
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-25-2015, 6:43 PM Reply   
For the centurion, stick around the 2013 mark?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-25-2015, 6:54 PM Reply   
I disagree with^^^^ this. The hull which has not changed is what matters. Look at the enzo and the avalanche from 06 and up. In 06they went to the reduced v drive over the 1 to 1 unit. For supreme look for the v 226 if possible without the mercruiser smart tow. Centurion has been making great waves without all the extra stuff they have now for many many years.
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-25-2015, 8:42 PM Reply   
Excellent.
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-25-2015, 8:42 PM Reply   
Also, if I can get a really good deal on a 15 SS210...run with it?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-25-2015, 9:34 PM Reply   
The ss 210 will be a good boat but be aware it is a sub 21 foot boat . Centurion did a good job of using the space but also be aware the bow is small and really only good for kids. The wave, build quality ,and ride quality will all be there .
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-25-2015, 9:37 PM Reply   
Also how much?? If you can find a 226 for close to the same price you will get a much bigger boat and surf wake. The 210 is nice but not in the same league as the bigger boats
Old    Grant (Minnesotasurfer)      Join Date: Feb 2015       08-25-2015, 11:55 PM Reply   
If you find a 2015 S226 you should be able to pick one up in the low 60's this time of year and yes the inside is much bigger. The one thing you have to look at with this boat is that it is a very deep boat inside and makes it feel much bigger. Also consider the quick surf, If for nothing else just for the resale value it will help. The surf wake is also bigger and they have a great regular and goofy wave.
Old    Matthew Smith (LKASurfing)      Join Date: Nov 2011       08-26-2015, 4:22 AM Reply   
I have spent some time behind my friends Supreme S21 with Quick Surf. We list the boat, but deploy the tab a couple clicks to make the best clean wake with tons of drive. The trim tab allows you to make the wake steeper or mellow it out (as do Centurions) this is a great feature for me as it allows to change the wake based on the skill of the rider especially when teaching. Supreme gets my vote for best bang for the buck in a new boat.

Also agree a V hull is king for a wake as well as the advantage for riding through rough water as we use our boat for regular boating as well. Disadvantage is that the wakeboard wake is more sensitive to weight from port to stud to clean the wake. Not as much on the shorter Hulls though.

As far as Enzo's, I prefer the 233 & 244 as said from their inception in 2012 model year. I Feel though that if one can afford a 2014 with RamFill & CATS that is absolutely the best combo! I switch sides in less than a minute, I can start surfing from no ballast in the same. Very Happy, I personally love the touch screen, GPS etc that comes in the nicer boats. Ia am sure you can find a great deal on a used 14 Enzo. (i know of one...hint, hint... lol)

You asked about the SS210. great boat! Question though, do you mostly surf regular or goofy? If you ride goofy a lot, you will want to be sure they ad the asymmetrical wing plate.

Sorry for the long posts, don't usually do that, but this is a good friendly thread!
Old     (stealthall)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-26-2015, 7:16 AM Reply   
Mostly surf regular, a couple buddies are goofy but I own the boat 😀.

Also, there are a couple hold over FX22 out there....are these in the same league for surfing?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-26-2015, 7:50 AM Reply   
Fx 22 will out surf the 210 for sure but the 226 out surfs all the centurions with the exception of the FS 33 and FS 44, I have owned nothing but centurion untel we bought our 226 and have surfed most boats in the game. Like I said before if you do not care about the tec stuff it is the 226 all day. Money was not a factor for us when we switched to supreme could have bought whatever I wanted. We went with the 226 because the wake is amazing on both sides is super easy to set up and the super tall freeboard feals safe when slammed. The FS wake is better but not buy much so I could not justify spending the extra cash for one. For what you will spend for a used FX 22 you can get a new S226 JMTC
Old     (sandm01)      Join Date: May 2010       08-26-2015, 10:03 AM Reply   
226 is a great boat and what really impressed me the most speaking from someone who likes to do his own work was how user friendly the supreme boat was with access to all the major stuff.
Old    Jack Henry (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       08-26-2015, 6:56 PM Reply   
I have my eye on a 2012 v226 and am leaning towards a supreme being our next boat. How does the boat surf in chop? I don't mean white cap, 25 mph winds. Just a normal busy lake with too much chop to have any fun? My 02 vlx does not like chop, does not like our local lakes & I find myself being more irritated when we go out than it's worth. I know the deep V is a smoother ride but I am hoping our next boat will allow for being ballasted & surfing when it is choppy & not worry about taking a big roller over the nose. I assume the chop still makes it hard to ripe ropeless? I am fine holding the rope I just want to be able to do more then sit or tube when it's busy or blown out
Old    Brian (viking)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-26-2015, 7:30 PM Reply   
Put 60 hours on my S226 so far this season and extremely happy with everything about it. It handles chop like a champ and the deep v does help cut down on some of it for surfing. If we find glass it's always skiing/wakeboarding first and then once it's ripples it's surf time. I'm more concerned about taking a roller from my own wave than I am any other boat or waves on the lake. Most of it is driver error if it happens. Wife almost took one this year but she turned into the surf side wake to pick me up. A little patience, attention, and turning surf side opposite helps alot. If you get a chance to demo I think you'll be sold on the boat for any occasion but rougher water for sure!
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-27-2015, 5:25 AM Reply   
Chop is not a problem with the 226 but just like any boat if you cross another boats wake the wakes doubles up and will buck you off. When I see a boat wake I just get close to the swim deck and surf right through. The 2012 226 has hard tanks. One under the floor in the bow and one on each side in the rear. To get the famous 226 wake the rear tanks need to be removed and custom enzo style sacks installed. Wakemakers already has the sack dimensions so not a big deal. You will never worry about talking on water when slammed. The 226 is a tall boat on the water. You would have to buy a G to get a boat that sits higher. Magic recipe for the surf wake is custom sack on port side full with 200 LBS of lead under the sack in the back corner, Bow tank full and another 250LBS of lead in the bow spread evenly no counter weight trim at 35% speed anywhere from 11,7 to 12 MPH set up is the same for the goofy side except trim at 100% you can get away without the lead and still be super stoked but more is always better LOL

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