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Old    Breddas Hoppe (Breddas)      Join Date: May 2013       05-03-2013, 7:41 AM Reply   
Wakeboarding and the direction?

Please stop destroying the sport and spreed your unconstructive hate

We didnít grow up wakeboarding or with any other extremesport. We grew up doing gymnastics and trampoline, football and all different kinds of sports. The truth is we hated that, always a pain in the ass to go practice. You all know what gymnastics looks like and that itís not really the sport you can play around in..It was too serious. People were telling us what to do and how itís done, pretty much all the time.

Right after that we became big fans of snowboarding. Why? Because it was bad ass, freedom and you really needed body control. But the very best part, YOU DONíT have to do like everybody else!
From the first day we started snowboarding we could actually practice with a smile on our face. (Our own opinion about grabs, itís the beauty of the sport and thatís what makes it look sexy and awesome)

Snowboarding exploded and developed in so many different categories. None of them are wrong they are just different from each other but still the same sport. It all comes down to whatís possible on a board and pushing it in every way that they can.
We started wakeboarding because we wanted to do something similar during summer time.

WAKEBOARDING!
Itís pretty much a copy of snowboarding but still different in many ways. Wakeboard is many years behind snowboarding and thereís a lot of things happening in our sport right now. Nobody can really control whatís happening. Itís popping up new things everywhere all the time. People just pushing it the way they want.
Donít forget why you are doing the sport! Are you doing it just for fun, staying fit, the adrenaline kick, the freedom or just because itís bad ass. No matter what, YOU are doing your OWN thing and nobody can take that away from you.

After the making of One Shot we know now that we are not even close to whatís possible on a wakeboard. Yes, in our video some of the tricks wasnít the prettiest ones and maybe bad or no grabbed at all. But damn we had some flow coming up with new stuff. We know what style is itís just that we didnít have the time. Too busy inventing tricks High cable easier? Hmm not at all it took us three years to get use to the pull.. try for yourself. Whirly transfer.. We (Breddas) are not skateboarders we got bindings and we using it. Style will come.

This is just the beginning!
Haters if you donít like the way your sport is progressing, please try to change it, itís kind a cute♥

/https://www.facebook.com/teamBreddas
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       05-03-2013, 7:53 AM Reply   
All I Can Say Is.. °O'BRIEN!
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-03-2013, 8:23 AM Reply   
Kind of an odd post.
Old    Ryan Allison (devildog_ra)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-03-2013, 8:33 AM Reply   
This is a great response to the slew of articles and comments which have popped up the last few days! if you have missed out you have a lot of reading to do but its worth it.....
The original article by Tom Fooshee
http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/matters-air-it-out/
His follow up
http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/the...to-air-it-out/
the reply by Marc Shuster
http://www.wakeworld.com/news/blogs/...cable-rat.html
Nick Davies hillarious video followup
http://wakeworld.com/news/videos/steeze-brah.html

Last edited by wakeworld; 05-06-2013 at 5:33 PM.
Old    Ryan Allison (devildog_ra)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-03-2013, 8:34 AM Reply   
No matter your stance i think it has been a great discussion and showcases everyones passion for our beloved sport
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       05-03-2013, 8:44 AM Reply   
so I guess WTF is legal WW logic now? Kinda of an odd post is an understatement when probably no one in the United States knows who you are, Three brothers who have a cable park in their backyard? I wish I could have that when I was growing up! Swedes how long do you get to ride 3 months out of the year? Dont come out to the WW community and try to be positive by telling everyone WTF kid! You need to take a different perspective on how you promote the sport aparently WTF to you back Team Breddas, sheesh. And lastly don't call Wakeskaters Skateboarders.

No one knows who you are and this is the way you introduce yourself? I feel sorry for you sponsors kid. Grow up!
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-03-2013, 8:50 AM Reply   
It was a set-up by Alliance. Who titles a video "Hot or Not"? Total BS in my opinion. They have every right to be pissed.

I support Breddas! Ride with them for a day and you will be trying new stuff and feeling stoked about taking hard crashes.
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-03-2013, 8:57 AM Reply   
I think a lot of people know who they are. But anyway I don't really understand why people care so much what your style is or what you do. If you don't like it get over it.
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-03-2013, 8:58 AM Reply   
Also much support for them, they're doing what they love, and doing it impressively
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-03-2013, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknot View Post
so I guess WTF is legal WW logic now? Kinda of an odd post is an understatement when probably no one in the United States knows who you are, Three brothers who have a cable park in their backyard? I wish I could have that when I was growing up! Swedes how long do you get to ride 3 months out of the year? Dont come out to the WW community and try to be positive by telling everyone WTF kid! You need to take a different perspective on how you promote the sport aparently WTF to you back Team Breddas, sheesh. And lastly don't call Wakeskaters Skateboarders.

No one knows who you are and this is the way you introduce yourself? I feel sorry for you sponsors kid. Grow up!
chill bro... their like europe's shred town
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       05-03-2013, 9:02 AM Reply   
Got it. I dont remember Shredtown posting like this in Europe. Seems odd to me.
Old    Joel McMath (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       05-03-2013, 9:03 AM Reply   
also the Davies video is awesome, 5 Bel airs would be the funnest and dizziest thing ever
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-03-2013, 9:18 AM Reply   
I read through some of the alliance posts. I think it's funny how the raley is looked down upon by so many wakeboarders, especially the good riders. I get that for a high level rider it's an easy trick. But its one of the few tricks that other board sports CAN NOT do, they have no rope. It's also probably the most impressive trick to Non-wakeboarders. If you are riding boat and threw a grabbed BS5, a method BS180 and a "superman" for a crowd of non-hardcore riders guess which trick they would think was the coolest? I live in Canada and haven't had the chance to ride a cable yet, but when I do, I hope to try a raley, I think they look fun.
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-03-2013, 9:24 AM Reply   
LW, Love it or hate it the Raley is uniquely wakeboarding. If for that reason alone, every rider, no matter how above it they may be, need to light-up a nice white knuckle bomber just to keep it real every once in a while.

I never apologize for wakeboarding and I have never met anyone from another sport who would bad-mouth it to my face. It is some kind of kid-brother complex that Alliance needs to get over. There is no right or wrong way to wakeboard.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       05-03-2013, 9:35 AM Reply   
sorry for being so uninformed to the current battle going on between right an left. This is way bigger than I anticipated. Tom Foshee is the best cable rider in the world Breddas!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-03-2013, 9:36 AM Reply   
raley's are just an old school trick with unnecessary consequences to me, if im going to get broken off id rather be learning mobes and 7's than raley variations.
anyways because opinions are like bum holes and everyone has them... how i feel about raleys shouldnt effect you and youll still get respect from me if you do them even though i wont be chucking them anytime soon.

they're calling out the hate, good for them, i thought the video showed dirty skill even if the trick and feature is out of style. thats like hating on harley or dowdy because you like maur and twelker. just because i like to watch and emulate maur and twelker doesn't mean harley and dowdy don't get my respect and appreciation.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-03-2013, 9:47 AM Reply   
A little context would have helped, but I know what you're referring to.

In addition to the poke from Alliance, a few pro riders (who I won't name) were bashing the Whirly transfer on Facebook. I was both surprised and not surprised. If you don't like the trick, you don't have to do it, but you can't blame these guys for trying new stuff. Maybe they just wanted to see if it could be done?

I appreciate seeing anything that takes an incredible amount of skill. And doing a whirly and landing on a slider seems like it probably requires a good amount of skill and risk. Also, I think it's pretty messed up to have the worlds elite riders bashing the young, new riders, as they try to progress themselves and the sport. I've lost a little respect for the snooty, smug pros. Probably not the kind of guys that I would want to hang out with.
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-03-2013, 9:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog_ra View Post
This is a great response to the slew of articles and comments which have popped up the last few days! if you have missed out you have a lot of reading to do but its worth it.....
The original article by Tom Fooshee
http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/matters-air-it-out/
His follow up
http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/the...to-air-it-out/
the reply by Marc Shuster
http://www.wakeworld.com/news/blogs/...cable-rat.html
Nick Davies hillarious video followup
http://wakeworld.com/news/videos/steeze-brah.html
I have to admit, before this thread I was so confused about that video. Now my side hurts from laughing lol.

Good post Ryan

Last edited by wakeworld; 05-06-2013 at 5:33 PM.
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-03-2013, 9:52 AM Reply   
Simplej, That is it perfectly. Why can't you appreciate all ridng? Everyone acts like you can only be a Harley fan or Dowdy fan, Breddas or Shredtown, Fooshee or Davies. Even in politics when did everything become either, or? You can be both or even somewhere in the middle.

Shred is shred. You can take something away from any rider at any level: the toughness it takes to crash 10 times learning wake to wake, the creativity to bend the board a little different, even the good vibes from the beer drinking counter balance buddy on the boat.
Old    MICAH HARPER (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-03-2013, 10:16 AM Reply   
LOL...this is like Biggie and Tupac between breddas and shredtown...lol...we all know how that ended'

But for real though..Mad props to anyone who can do something cool behind a boat or on the cable....i mean come on guys...probably 75% of us are not that good lets face it (me included)...i will never be a pro...lol...and never want to be on...i wakeboard cause its fun.

So quit with all the Jr High girl crap and GO RIDE!!!
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       05-03-2013, 10:18 AM Reply   
I got mad respect for the Breddas! Always have always will!
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       05-03-2013, 10:38 AM Reply   
I've always been bothered by riders and publications that attempt to steer wakeboarding in a direction that, in their opinion, is "legit." As a wakeboarding publication, I feel it's my job to report on where the sport is going, no matter which direction that might be. I certainly don't think it's my place to label things as "legit" or "not legit." Sure, I have my opinion of what riding looks good to me and you will most likely see more of that riding on our pages, but I certainly don't feel it's my place to assume my opinion is the end all, be all of what should and should not be done.

Obviously, if a pro rider has an opinion of how riding should be done, they can express that opinion through their riding. If you don't like tindy grabs (or 1280's or doubles or rail inverts or whatever the current "non-legit" trick is), then don't do tindy grabs. If they want to do an interview and say, "Hey, I don't like grabbing tindy" then that's great. It just makes me laugh when they try to tell other pros that they are "doing it wrong" and that it is their "responsibility" to stop doing tindy grabs. Let the free market of ideas sort that out. If the fans don't like tindy, that rider won't be as popular as the rider grabbing tail and he will eventually have to start grabbing tail or get another job.

P.S. I love watching Shaun Murray do an absolutely gigantic Raley, I loved Breddas' whirly transfer and I don't like seeing pros grab tindy, but I grab tindy all day long cuz that's just where my hand ends up landing on the board!

P.P.S. Thanks for posting Breddas!!

Last edited by wakeworld; 05-03-2013 at 2:49 PM.
Old    Jason (Hooya)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-03-2013, 11:28 AM Reply   
Ultimately the "people" will decide what is cool and what is not, what is modern and what trick will be laid to rest. And given this day and age of social media, free video edits etc the people will have a louder voice than ever and no one individual or groups opinion will change the "direction" of the industry.
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       05-03-2013, 12:25 PM Reply   
Aaah.. it's like when suddenly gloves were uncool.. and vests.. but wake pants were cool. Which crew were you in?

So.. does this mean we're bringing back gloves and wake pants?
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       05-03-2013, 12:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeworld View Post
I've always been bothered by riders and publications that attempt to steer wakeboarding in a direction that, in their opinion, is "legit." As a wakeboarding publication, I feel it's my job to report on where the sport is going, no matter which direction that might be. I certainly don't think it's my place to label things as "legit" or "not legit." Sure, I have my opinion of what riding looks good to me and you will most likely see more of that riding on our pages, but I certainly don't feel it's my place to assume my opinion is the end all, be all of what should and should not be done.

Obviously, if a pro rider has an opinion of how riding should be done, they can express that opinion through their riding. If you don't like tindy grabs (or 1280's or doubles or rail inverts or whatever the current "non-legit" trick is), then don't do tindy grabs. If they want to do an interview and say, "Hey, I don't like grabbing tindy" then that's great. It just makes me laugh when they try to tell other pros that they are "doing it wrong" and that it is their "responsibility" to stop doing tindy grabs. Let the free market of ideas sort that out. If the fans don't like tindy, that rider won't be as popular as the rider grabbing tail and he will eventually have to start grabbing tail or get another job.

P.S. I love watching Shaun Murray do an absolutely gigantic Raley, I loved Breddas' whirly transfer and I don't like seeing pros grab tindy, but I grab tindy all day long cuz that's just where my hand ends up landing on the board!
You got a great Tindy there boss!
Old    Wayne Soven (wkbddad)      Join Date: May 2005       05-03-2013, 5:34 PM Reply   
Dave, you're absolutely right in promoting all aspects of wakeboarding. For those who compete, its actually the judges who decide what's legit or not. For everyone else, stop worrying what the other guy thinks and have fun. That's the only reason I ever let my kids wakeboard, because they had fun. That said, people have fun in different ways. For Phillip, its winning tournaments so his style of riding is directed at what the judges are scoring high. For Robert, its more about doing what he wants to do on the water. However things are changing as Robert's qualyfing run at Wakegames beat Shane's by 10 points and Robert never threw any spin more than a 360 and only did one invert to Shane's two 720's and 2 mobes. Bottom line, what wasn't legit yesterday may very well be legit today, but unless you're trying to win a wakeboard tournament does it really matter?
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-03-2013, 9:07 PM Reply   
When I watch that davies video it just shows me how amazing of a rider he really is making those tricks that most of us have trouble doing look ridiculously easy and almost childish lol
Old    James Tiblier (jtiblier123)      Join Date: Jan 2011       05-04-2013, 5:56 AM Reply   
I agree with Wayne. The sport is changing. I was involved with snow skiing for a while and I never experienced any tension or hating in that sport, so why does wakeboarding have so many people hating on each other.Yes I know there will always be haters, but wakeboarding definitely has a skewed ratio. Why do we all get so hyped up about everything. Lets just ride. Where has the PURITY of wakeboarding gone??

Jason and Shane both kick A** in different ways, and this does not give anybody reason to hate on either.
Old    Ryan Shimabukuro (ryan_shima1)      Join Date: Sep 2002       05-04-2013, 7:31 AM Reply   
Well said Wayne, and I totally agree. Everyone's definition of "fun" will be different and thus, will show in their riding on the water. Whatever the reason that drives a person to ride, so be it.

And in the 20 years since I first got on a wakeboard, I've never understood the mentality that we needed to achieve acceptance from other board sports to validate wakeboarding itself. That thought never crosses my mind when I'm on the water. Until the culture of wakeboarding stops looking for ways to be considered "legit", it will never be secure in itself to create it's own identity.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-04-2013, 7:58 AM Reply   
I've seen this happen over and over again in many sports over the years. its a natural cycle, so just relax.

I can sum it up like this, progression comes in many forms, and every form runs its course. The only constant is style. However, style is subjective. It is very important for the health of the industry to remain fresh and find new forms of progression to add style to.

An example, let look at wakeboarding back in the day. Progression was adding a 180 to everything. Was that good? YES! Rolls became roll to reverts, roll to reverts became mobes. Competitions were judged by timed runs through buoy course. I call this progression "volume progression". Its how many 180s can you add to a trick and how many tricks can you add to a run. Shapiro dominated this way. Riders wanted to add more style, but style you add hurt your tournament run, thus winnings, thus sponsors, etc. Eventually, volume runs its course, and a sport needs to find another outlet of progression. The top riders did the same call out to the public we see Tom do in his articles. Its what Byerly did to wakeboarding, shunning the comps and taking the raley off its pedestal and putting it in proper context despite it being a crowd pleaser. The result was what you see today. The top riders changed the mindset of the consumer with their videos, and changed the demand on the contest organizers to make things a good representation of the sport and award riders for doing such things in comps. The result is the better product you enjoy today.

Look at kiteboarding. Initially it was all about how high you could jump and how many dangling handlepasses you could do. A site just like this one called the kitescoop wrote many things like Tom wrote, explaining that the progression mode needed to change to be more like wakeboarding. It took years, stepped on alot of toes and hurt alot of feelings, but now the best riders in the word are all wearing bindings and riding with a wakeboarding style.

If you need an example of what a sport looks like that doesn't change their progression type, look at windsurfing. Practically dead. Name a top 10 windsurfer. yeah, me neither.


Cable is going through the same thing. Volume progression, while still impressive and somewhat possible, has reached a stale point. If volume is the only focus, why not just start having indian line comps? Do a bunch of quintuple sbends? Or maybe the top guys should grow the sport in a more universal way with style. The cable industry is blowing up, and maybe the top guys should be giving it the Byerly treatment, or the Andre Philip treatment in kiteboarding. Get away from volume progression and contortionist grabs, and get back to making things look good and fun. Shape the contests to weight such things so that the sports "winners" represent the best the sport has to offer. Make it attractive to other industries. This does not mean air tricks are dead, or not cool. Everyone should do them. It only means that the weight they carry in comps should be put in context, and the value of volume should be flattened somewhat so that those doing other things to progress do not feel obligated to go max volume in order to place in a comp. You do this by imploring the public to take a look at it in a different way, and often times this comes across as belittling the current way.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       05-04-2013, 9:37 AM Reply   
The only reason anyone should wakeboard is because it's fun. Who cares what it looks like. If your having fun that's all that matters.
Old    the not so naked chef (electricsnow)      Join Date: May 2002       05-04-2013, 8:01 PM Reply   
People care what it looks like because they want to make their riding theirs, and do it the best that they can do it. I'm by no means pro, but i care how i do things, take great pride in that, and have grown to see how that character crosses over into other things i am passionate about in life...maybe not being the best at any of them, but doing something the best that i can, and feeling inspired by others who do the same but execute their stuff a million times better than i ever will (nick taylor, the pasturas, koston, etc.). And there are bench marks for style, no matter how anyone wants to argue it, or act like it doesn't matter (maybe not as much as an amateur if they don't find that same gratification from good style).

Lots of arguments...i just respect how these guys challenge each other to become better. Sometimes you learn something crazy before going back to perfect it. You could find that phase in any boardsport. And we all know trends come and go, but some feel a need to keep exploring and pushing...

Last edited by electricsnow; 05-04-2013 at 8:04 PM.
Old    Lou Ferraro (ferral)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-04-2013, 8:36 PM Reply   
Exploring and pushing is fine. By all means go out and do the best you can and do it how you think looks good. That's got nothing to do with putting down the next guy who has a different way of doing things.
Old    Bill (Bill_Dad)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-05-2013, 3:34 AM Reply   
agee with andy, so true. these guys are pushing the sport of cable, but the moment some kid trys that trick whirly transfer and misses and kills themsleves then the cable parks will stop people from doing this stuff it will be sad but true. The insurance implications on the cable park. i hope it doesnt happen.
Old    Jon Doe (Kane)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-05-2013, 5:32 AM Reply   
"sport of cable"
I'm confused, why not call it the sport of wakeboarding? It is wakeboarding after all......
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-05-2013, 10:19 AM Reply   
So what's the bottom line? You can hate it but you better respect it for what it is which is impressive.
Old    Bill (Bill_Dad)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-05-2013, 12:24 PM Reply   
Kane
i guess by definition they are 2 different sports to a degree, where is the wake at the cable park. You dont use a wake to ride cable.
Old    Drew McMillen (xmcmillenx)      Join Date: May 2006       05-05-2013, 7:11 PM Reply   
I only wish I had enough skill to choose which tricks were cool and which weren't. At this point I just try progress any way I can.
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-06-2013, 6:14 AM Reply   
where is that whirly to slider video?
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-06-2013, 7:21 AM Reply   
I would like to point out that the "right way/ wrong way" mentality is part of what killed trick skiing. That and that it turned into an elitist cool-kids club that your average joe couldn't do behind his I/O without being made fun of. Sounds kinda familiar...
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-06-2013, 10:06 AM Reply   
I wonder if there's a correlation between me watching that whirly transfer and the sudden mess in my pants
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-06-2013, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
So what's the bottom line? You can hate it but you better respect it for what it is which is impressive.
Yeah what IS the bottom line? I read through about as much as of this wordy insufferable whining as I could stand and I still couldn't make heads or tails of it. I got about halfway through Tom Fooshe's backpedaling 2nd story and about a paragraph through the other guy's thing. I watched the Nick Davies video with the sound off. I got the point. I think.

To me it sounds like yound men whining like petulant children. I can't help but read this all stuff (this post from Hoppas included) and say, in my 15 year old girl voice: "OMG, Tina! Becky is being such a bitch!" through a mouthful of braces & elastics. I don't know which side to take so I have decided that I don't care enough about any of them to give a single ****. I don't want anyone, anywhere, ever, telling me what is and isn't cool or judging me. Nick Davies is one of the most irritating guys in the sport, and Tom Fooshe is whatever. This Breddas Hoppe post is crappy too.

My Verdict: This makes me not like any of them. Congratulations everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_vilfo View Post
where is that whirly to slider video?
Right here:
http://www.wakeworld.com/news/videos...-transfer.html
I actually thought it was cool but what do I know. I also think it's cool to think of a well known pro secretly off working on inverts on his wakeskate but that is practically sacrilege when you hear some people discuss it. It shouldn't have to be a secret to work on anything like that, but that's what happens (or at least has happened according to someone I know). Fun sport.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-06-2013, 10:20 AM Reply   
I read the Marc Shuster thing and good god... that kid needs an editor and a delete key.
I thought that thing was never going to end. Just a total slog to read through but I made it.

But I think out of all of these people, I probably agree with him the most. That said I STILL don't know if all this stuff is supposed to even be related to one another. I think he comes to the issue with a manner of contrition and thought that I don't see in the others.

I didn't need the history lesson in the Shuster thing, or his personal sob story of only having Ski Rixen to get started in the sport (cry me a river), or the constant quoting, "boat guys" "cable rats" "boat rats" "cable cliques" "boat brothels" "cable clowns" "boat boners" and that kind of stuff, but after reading it I at least got a hint that he just wants the kind of cable riding he came up with, to stay at least in spirit. And that includes corner tricks/air tricks/zim-zams**. And for him not to lose the ability to do the tricks that many in his sport have come to perfect. And I get that. I am still not a fan, but I do get it.

**I think air tricks being called zim-zams started here:
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791970

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomshot View Post
Ah yes the Zim Zam. That's typically a move done heelside*, with a butt-touchingly hard cut, that morphs into a twisting chaotic series of writhing body concoctions that bear some resemblance to an s-bend in wakeboarding. Advanced Zim Zammers have been reportedly taking their Zim Zams to blind. The Zim Zam Judging Board (ZZJBUSA) is still reviewing whether or not a Zim Zam taken to blind is a Zim Zam at all. Because doing something to blind requires actual technical skill and Zim Zammers usually do not possess any technical ability.

* Heelside because the cable board answer to the question, "Toeside?" is ... "Huh? Why?"
Old    Brad S (wakeskierbrad)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-06-2013, 12:25 PM Reply   
Here is an article from 2000, the same thing happens every 10 years or so. Everyone is just trying to progress and keep pushing the sport!

http://wakeboardingmag.com/features/...a0vfI.facebook
Old    BT (patoloco)      Join Date: May 2002       05-06-2013, 5:09 PM Reply   
http://wakeboardingmag.com/features/.../jeremy-kovak/

"But he woke up one morning and decided heís not a wakeboarder, heís a loser."
Old    Mark (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       05-06-2013, 8:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeskierbrad View Post
Here is an article from 2000, the same thing happens every 10 years or so. Everyone is just trying to progress and keep pushing the sport!

http://wakeboardingmag.com/features/...a0vfI.facebook
Yup.. that's what I was referencing above with my 'which crew were you in' comment..
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-07-2013, 9:45 AM Reply   
Those are both great articles. I remember reading them and it being a huge deal back then. Around 98-2001, Wakeboarding (boat) had grown so fast, but was struggling for its identity. You had two sides at war, but the truth looking back now was in the middle. I always agreed with the "New Crew", but they were really jerks about the whole thing. I think we're in the same situation now. I agree with many of the arguments about obstacles and style, but the way they are going about it is not cool. Lead by example not by putting down other riders.

Cable has blown-up over the last few years maybe the current arguments are just natural growing pains.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-08-2013, 5:43 AM Reply   
Quote:
Cable has blown-up over the last few years maybe the current arguments are just natural growing pains.
Its exactly this which is why anyone whose been around for a while shouldnt be bothered by it.

Yes, we all ride for fun. However, there are a few who ride for fun....and competition, and\or have a financial stake in the industry. THOSE are who these discussions are aimed at. Lets face it, some are incented to keep the health of the sport strong, whether they are competitors, or other industry participants. You keep it strong by achieving a universal appeal, which brings more people into the sport.

These same arguments occured when they started putting obsticles in the pro tour runs. The guys that had a bazillion mobes who were going to lose some to structures were pissed. Thats how they put food on the table. But look at the new riders that came from a skate\snow influence who joined based on the structure side. It came about by some of the tops pros being visionaries (aceholes by some accounts) that made the positive long term change.
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-08-2013, 7:12 AM Reply   
You bring up a point that was on my mind after watching the wake games video. Why are the structures even there? No one is putting them to work. Last year the best wake riding was at the Masters because no rider had to take the time to do a lazy 270 on--> 90 off of a flat bar. I love rail riding, but even the equipment for wake riding and rail riding isn't the same. Separate Comps with a combined score...maybe.?
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       05-08-2013, 7:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder View Post
You bring up a point that was on my mind after watching the wake games video. Why are the structures even there? No one is putting them to work. Last year the best wake riding was at the Masters because no rider had to take the time to do a lazy 270 on--> 90 off of a flat bar. I love rail riding, but even the equipment for wake riding and rail riding isn't the same. Separate Comps with a combined score...maybe.?
I've been saying that for years. Either place more of the scoring weight on rails, thus encouraging more impressive rail moves, or dump them and let the riders do more wake tricks. Nobody is watching those events for the rail moves!
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-09-2013, 7:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
I've been saying that for years. Either place more of the scoring weight on rails, thus encouraging more impressive rail moves, or dump them and let the riders do more wake tricks. Nobody is watching those events for the rail moves!
Great thoughts! Now you can write a well thought out article saying such, and some die-hard will take offense to it and assume you are belittling the tour's tradition, passively insulting the riders who have been successful in the current format, and using your "status" in the industry to make it what YOU think is a greater expression of the sport to line your pockets. Now youre just as big a jerk as Heavener, Staker, and Fooshee. Or maybe being a guy who has looked at wakeboarding EVERY SINGLE DAY for over a decade and has some skin in the game providing incentive for you to help make it the best draw it can be, you write it without concern for the guys who have crafted their skills to maximize success in the current format, and risk affecting their paycheck. Now your just as big an innovator Heavener, Staker, and Fooshee.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       05-09-2013, 9:27 AM Reply   
Haha, I write it from a fan perspective. When is the last time anybody ever talked about something that was done on a hit at a King of Wake event?? Actually, I can't even think of a first time. Nobody ever falls on an obstacle because they are all doing "safe" hits because the judging doesn't reward anything above that level, so it's not worth the risk to do a whirly transfer. Adding insult to injury is the fact that each obstacle has a huge opportunity cost in that the rider can do one or two more wake tricks in that time. So the fans are not only watching something that's not that impressive, but they're missing out on something that's potentially quite impressive.

I don't have a preference as to whether the obstacles stay or go. However, if they stay, the judging needs to change so that it's weighted heavier and we see the difficulty level of what's done on the obstacles increase. A good measure of when you've got the judging just right is when you start seeing as many falls on the obstacles as you see on the wake tricks.
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-09-2013, 10:59 AM Reply   
They really should have rail only events, different riders shine in that dept and it would give them a chance to cash in
Old    Jim Powers (JP)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-09-2013, 11:05 AM Reply   
Dave-you might find the new KOW format more to your liking--rails are used on the way out-they count as part of the overall run but they are "outside" the course. The course is one full pass of no more than 6 tricks in a row. The second pass is only one trick. A fall at any time and the run is done. Rider gets two runs. Best run counts.
Old     (MrPeepers)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-09-2013, 8:44 PM Reply   
Telling someone else how ride is douchy and the Pros that care about someone else's style are douches.
Old    Wayne Soven (wkbddad)      Join Date: May 2005       05-09-2013, 9:44 PM Reply   
I would have to diagree that some of the pros aren't doing difficult manuvers on the rails and just playing it safe. With the new format the hits on the rails at Wake Games were much better this year than past but the reality is the average fan can't tell the difference between a difficult toe-side transfer and a simple board slide.
Old    John Page (JohnP)      Join Date: Mar 2012       05-11-2013, 4:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder View Post
You bring up a point that was on my mind after watching the wake games video. Why are the structures even there? No one is putting them to work. Last year the best wake riding was at the Masters because no rider had to take the time to do a lazy 270 on--> 90 off of a flat bar. I love rail riding, but even the equipment for wake riding and rail riding isn't the same. Separate Comps with a combined score...maybe.?
AMEN!!! The Masters has some of the best riding of the year. Plus i get to see Freddy launch himself off a ramp like 260 feet... now thats nuts!
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-11-2013, 7:26 PM Reply   
Kind of a waste posting at this point. I didn't read your posts and I don't expect you to read mine, but I just want to say that I support the Breddas and anyone else who feels the urge to try new things on the water. It doesn't matter if they invent some **** that you think looks bad. If you don't like whirly transfers, don't try them. Simple as.

The Breddas aren't ruining the sport. The sport is damaged by judgmental douchebags who act like they have the authority to decide where wakeboarding should go. Wakeboarding's course is not shaped by haters and keyboard warriors. It is shaped, for better or for worse, by people like the Breddas who actually go out and try new things.
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-19-2013, 12:22 PM Reply   
I have to say that I rarely post anymore but this has been one of the more interesting threads that i have seen in awhile.

I am glad they are experimenting with the format at the pro level but think more significant reward should come for landing a much higher difficulty in trick. Not just adding style + difficulty + overall composition or whatever for each trick but to the point where a new trick never landed in competition could almost compensate for a whole crap run because it is such a big risk.

Even if the rail scoring is different now it doesn't change the fact that it is completely boring because it still encourages everyone to take the same risk and do the same boring hits.

JG are you still riding behind the boat? Never quite got excited about the kite. Just now getting back into riding a little. Hope all is well.
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-20-2013, 7:38 AM Reply   
Wayne, I disagree on the difficulty of the hits. I am no where near the league of these riders, but I could roll in regular or switch and follow those lines first try. I've seen these guys kill it in the park. I want to see that in competition.

It is cool that they have broken it up into a wake pass and a rail pass, but in my opinion they should be completely separate. Who hits rails with fins or on a "wake"board? The equipment for terrain is completely different than wake riding. Only a few years ago the equipment was the same and terrain mid-run was fun, different and exciting. There has been a lot of progression recently. It is time to reevaluate the format.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-20-2013, 9:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene3x View Post
JG are you still riding behind the boat? Never quite got excited about the kite. Just now getting back into riding a little. Hope all is well.
I go when the rare invite matches up with free time, but I dont go out of my way to get on a boat. Ive been on the cable alot in the past year, and of course kite whenever the wind blows. Few more wake guys on the kite around here this year so its been alot of fun.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-20-2013, 10:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkbddad View Post
I would have to diagree that some of the pros aren't doing difficult manuvers on the rails and just playing it safe. With the new format the hits on the rails at Wake Games were much better this year than past but the reality is the average fan can't tell the difference between a difficult toe-side transfer and a simple board slide.
But the judges and knowledgeable fans can.... the fans you reference also probably don't know a roll from a superman thing with a spin, so are the rails there just so the "fan" can see a hit on an obstacle, regardless of difficulty? From the Wake Games footage I saw (very limited), most average pre-pubescent cable kids could do those hits.
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-26-2013, 1:28 PM Reply   
Amen Bredda. Justin, and David..im right there with ya.. keep it unique and do your own thing..thats why i have always loved wakeboarding and now cableboRDING, ITS FUN FOR PEOIPLE OF ALL SKILL LEVEL AND AGES TO CREATE THEIR OWN STYLE AND DO WHAT THEY LIKE BUT DO IT TOGETHER AND DEFINE THE VIBE AND SOUL OF OUR SPORT TO WHATEVER IT MEANS TO THE INDIVIDUAL PERFORMING IT..
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-29-2013, 4:25 PM Reply   
Tom Tex wins Triple Crown stop, Raph wins Wake the Line, and Breddas issue a public apology for their statements (of which I did not see/unaware of) via facebook directed at wake the line. Interesting weekend in the world of "wake"park.

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