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Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 7:38 AM Reply   
I have purchased 4 XS Power XP2000 (80 aH a piece for a total of a 320 aH bank) batteries for the stereo bank in my boat. The bank will not see alternator charging, so I want to get a good onboard charger to charge them up when on shore. After David from Earmark mentioned Progressive Dynamics as a charger they often use in a thread on here, I looked into it. I was completely set on the Progressive Dynamics PD2150 until I received my batteries and read the charging voltage sheet. The attached picture shows what it says. So at 86 degrees. I need to charge at about 14.5 volts and float at 13.5. And up from there if the temp cools off (likely when in shade). The Progressive Dynamics charger, though its a beefy 50 amps, seems to be weak for what the XS Power XP series batteries call for. The image below shows the specs for the PD2150 (keep in mind the numbers on the graph are incorrect for AGM, look at the legend below.) At max I will charge my batteries at 13.9 volts. A call to Progressive dynamics told me boost most only kicks in at 11.7-12.0 volts. Which would mean my batteries have to be absolutely slammed dead to get that low. So therefore I would be charging at the "normal" rate which is only 13.3. almost 1.5 volts shy of what XS Power recommends. The float voltage would be low also.

I saw somewhere in the forums where I believe David@earmark said they use progressive dynamics on the larger systems. So my question to this is, what am I missing?

Does anyone have an XS Power XP series stereo bank? What do you use for a charger? I thought about a Xantrex Trucharge2 or a higher end ProMariner like the pronautic or pro tournament. Their specs match up better, but they are very pricey. Also, the Xantrex seems to have some bad reviews with dead units after a short time period. And I know if Earmark is using these chargers on their large systems, they have to be working somewhat well.

Any suggestions?? I'm at a loss here and I need to get a correct charger ordered ASAP. I was so set on the PD2150 and now I'm back at square one.






XS Power Charging instruction sheet






PD2150 specs
Attached Images
  

Last edited by cal2vin; 03-18-2013 at 7:39 AM. Reason: error
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-18-2013, 9:24 AM Reply   
Wet Sounds uses XS Power exclusively on every single demo vehicle we have and have done. We have used XS Power on our Tige former demo boats and now on the new Tige Z3 demo boat. We have them on our Yamaha Rhino and Polaris Ranger side by sides. We have them in our Sea Hunter and our SCB fishing boats. So I cannot say enough awesome things about their products.

We have used Progressive Dynamics on the last two Tige demo boats and have them going in on the new Tige. We have used dual 60 amp on all of them. We have never had a single issue with charging or batteries with the XS Power and Progressive Dynamics combo so I would not worry about it. New boat is getting 6 XP3000 and going to run two PD2180. We use our demo’s at a lot of trade shows as well so many times we are plugged in so the combo of charger and power supply really work great for us.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 9:46 AM Reply   
Generally speaking how large of a charger to bank size ratio do you run. the new boat you describe will be 160 amps of charger on a 720 aH bank. Thats about 22 %. I am right at 15% on my setup which is probably fine. Next question, do you all just run the chargers on their AGM mode or do you use their lead acid mode to get more voltage (but then your using equalize mode which is a 14.4 v burst for 15 in every 21 hours and AGM does not require equalization). Ive done too much analyzing, I know. I just got myself paranoid now.

Last edited by cal2vin; 03-18-2013 at 9:47 AM. Reason: error
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 9:48 AM Reply   
You said you all used Progressive Dynamics in the last two demo boats. What were you all using as onboard charging before just curious?
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-18-2013, 9:55 AM Reply   
On all of the Tige demo boats we have used PRO DYN and on the new one as well. (actually our old MB sport we had them on that one as well) The fishing boats are the only ones we have not used them as they already came with big bank chargers from the factory.

Anything we have to add a charger to, we use the pro dyn. We leave them on the AGM mode. Plug the boats in when off the water and have never had to think about it.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 9:57 AM Reply   
Awesome. Thats what I was waiting to hear to ease my mind. Ill be running a PD2150 with 4 XS Power XP2000 very shortly. Do you all upgrade alternators or just rely on onshore charging?
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-18-2013, 10:13 AM Reply   
When running a big bank. Even a higher output alternator will not keep up. Plus with an alternator, you have to have some RPM's to get it charging at the fullest. So tied up in a cove. Won’t help. Sitting on a trailer at an event, obviously cant start boat. So we always build a bank with good amp hours. And don’t mess with the alternator. Not sure what the rest of your system looks like but 4 XP2000 is strong.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 10:21 AM Reply   
Yea thats the way I view charging as well. I don't even have my bank tied into the boats electrical system at all. I have 4 rev 10s running of two syn 4, a PPI p900.4 for JL Audio 7.7 inch in boats, and an Audioque 2200D at 1 ohm (@ 12.6 volts prolly around 1800 watt) on an Audioque HDC310 (Only because a wet sounds XXX wouldn't fit in the compartment I wanted to use for the sub. Had to go with a beefy 10.) Tried to go overkill with the batteries to never run out of play time or discharge em too deep.

Previously has a pair of pro 80's with one syn4, ppi p900.4 on in boat, and a 750 watt kicker amp for kicker sub running off 2 kinetik HC1800 and charged by a pro mariner prosport 20. The XS and Pro Dyn are part of the winter upgrade. They are some of the last pieces to the puzzle. Going in a 2008 Mastercraft X2.

Calvin

Last edited by cal2vin; 03-18-2013 at 10:25 AM.
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-18-2013, 10:25 AM Reply   
You should be plenty with that set up. I would say go for it with the batts and charger and dont worry about it. Keeping them topped off is the key.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-18-2013, 4:53 PM Reply   
A 40 amp charger is more than plenty for 320 collective amp/hours. Add in a typical 65 amp/hour starting battery and a 40 amp charger is still adequate.
It's different when you are using your chargers on shore as power supplies in a massive system as Wetsounds occasionally does.
Once you let the genie out of the bottle on an AGM, you can't get it back inside.
Also, I don't see the logic of a total alternator disconnect BEFORE the batteries are discharged. Any number of fully charged batteries are not a threat to the alternator. Keeping the alternator on-line while running about and before a stay at rest is safe and encourages healthier, shallower battery cycles at the end of the day.

David
Earmark Marine
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 5:05 PM Reply   
I actually have a switch wired inline to cut power to the voltage sensing relay master craft comes stock with that I just leave off mostly. But at the beginning of the day I'll turn it on so it sees the alternator with fully charged batteries. Lot of times we drive straight to the cove and shut off and play music all day. I just don't think to lift up the seats and flip the switch for such a short period of time.

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Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-18-2013, 5:38 PM Reply   
The voltage sensing relay should provide the necessary alternator protection automatically without manual intervention.

David
Earmark Marine
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 5:50 PM Reply   
Not to the fullest extent with agm since they rest at a higher voltage like 12.9. I think the vsr doesn't open circuit until 12.6 or 12.7 which will be quite a while with my 4 batteries. All the while that the stereo plays until it opens I'm discharging my starting battery which is a much smaller agm. Kinetik hc800 actually. Even if I don't play the stereo the starting and stereo bank will not have even levels so they would discharge off each other slightly with the vsr still closed waiting to get to the threshold to open the circuit and separate the starting bank from stereo bank. I thought I remembered reading about that on here a while back. Different brand acr was suggested due to higher voltage thresholds to open the circuit. Thus accommodating high resting voltages of newer agm. The stock mc one was lower. I'll look at the exact voltage when I am back at the boat next.

Of course I'm no expert so I may have completely miss understood all of it. The switch gives me piece of mind I guess.


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Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-18-2013, 6:04 PM Reply   
Yes, the Sure Power solenoid disconnects at a higher 12.8 volts which is the fully charged resting voltage of many AGMs (versus 12.7 of a flodded battery).

David
Earmark Marine
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-18-2013, 7:21 PM Reply   
Glad you put this thread up Calvin, I've been looking for a charger myself. Except not for a boat, for my toyhauler. I've got the 2 XP3000's that came from the order with your batteries, and was going to add a Perko switch to be able to parallel them, and to separate them for charging. I was going to use the ProMariner 15A dual bank charger, but this got me thinking.....
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 8:26 PM Reply   
You mean thinking about the vsr or thinking about using the progressive dynamics? The pd2100 series look awesome, the differnece in voltages from pro dyn and xs just had me over thinking. If there's two people I trust to listen to on the matter it would be Tim and David. So I think I'm going to go with pro dyn and see how it goes. It can't harm the batteries. Its not like its overcharging.

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Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2013, 8:30 PM Reply   
David, explain what you meant by once you let the genie out of the bottle on an agm you can't get it back in? Saying hard to recharge if they are flat dead?


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Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-19-2013, 4:05 AM Reply   
If AGM's are flat dead, they're done. They'll recharge, but won't hold that charge, then it's warranty time.
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-19-2013, 4:36 AM Reply   
Ooo I c. Yea I remember reading something about that.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-19-2013, 6:05 AM Reply   
If you over-charge an AGM and it vents, how are you going to restore the fluids?

David
Earmark Marine
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-19-2013, 7:36 AM Reply   
I had a Stinger SP1500D overcharge once, it swelled up pretty bad and stunk up the shop. And that was with a Stinger SBC6A 6 amp charger, that was supposed to shut off after charging.
Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-19-2013, 10:18 AM Reply   
Dang. Well I ended up with a 50 amp. Pd2150. I called earmark about getting one from them but they said the 40 and 50 amp were not in stock and I wanted to get ordered soon. Found one at lighthouse supply website and they were out of the 40 but had a 50 for 10 bucks more. Should be alright

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Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       05-02-2013, 1:31 PM Reply   
So I got all of my batteries and the charger installed. Seems to work well haven't had any problems yet except for one small thing. Even when I unplug the charger from the outlet it stays onn cycling through the display like when its charging except it just reads "err" when cycling through the v1 and v2 voltages. And I have my batteries on the v3 charging block. I would think it would turn off when u unplug it. Anyone else had this issue? The mode and normal displays are constantly flashing when unplugged as well. Only time the display completely shuts off is when you disconnect the batteries as well. Is this how its supposed to work? David have you ever seen this?

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Old     (cal2vin)      Join Date: Jun 2010       05-02-2013, 6:23 PM Reply   


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Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       05-02-2013, 6:44 PM Reply   
Looks great!!! Interested to see how the charger works out for you. I have 4 Interstate group 29's (450+ Ah) and am wondering if the Pd2150 would be what I need also. We have a pretty similiar sound system so keep us updated on how many hours of play you get out of them, and how long to fully recharge!

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