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Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 9:06 AM Reply   
Hey y'all. Been a lurker for a year or two, but never got in the game for real. Anyhow have wakeboarded casually on and off for 3 seasons, but never behind any worthy boat. This will be my 4th boat but both my first open bow and first inboard/direct drive.

So yesterday I put a deposit on an '85 Sunsport with a 351 and 1100hrs indicated on the clock. It has some wear and tear and is far from perfect, but I got it for what I feel is very fair! Speaking of which, what is fair market for this at say a 7/10 condition overall? The cheapest Sunsport or rider I have seen within a 1000mi of me is $7500.

As soon as I figure it out, I'll add up some pictures and you guys can comment, advise, flame, and whatever else you want.
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Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 9:08 AM Reply   
And here is some of the less good looking stuff....
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Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-05-2013, 9:46 AM Reply   
eek not an inboard trailer and the prop looks like it could be hacked up as a result...
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 10:07 AM Reply   
Definitely not an inboard trailer, but due to the rollers, the boat seems to sit high enough to clear the prop without issue. I think just lighting is effecting the way the prop looks, when I looked it over, it seemed to be in good shape
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-05-2013, 10:10 AM Reply   
Looks like alot of labors of love to come. Good luck!
Old    RPenner (pennery)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-05-2013, 10:13 AM Reply   
I would have a hard tome paying over $3K for that hing... Are the trailer fenders Wood? Maybe I am missing something but aside from the Engine that thing looks like it is in horrible cosmetic condition and not worth sinking a ton of money into because you would never get it back out...
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-05-2013, 10:18 AM Reply   
I think a perfect condiction one of those with 1000 hours is worth about 7500-10k if it was on a nice tournament boat trailer. That boat all cleaned up and on that trailer maybe 5000-7500. As is I think Rpenner is right. That looks like a 3000-5000 boat at best. Even though some might be the light that prop definitely looks bent in spots. It doesn't take much to throw the entire prop out of whack and cause vibration. That prop needs a $150 tune it looks like to me.
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 10:23 AM Reply   
Well sounds like you guys are less excited than I am hahaha, but it also sounds like I didn't overpay even a little. And yes, trailer fenders are indeed wood, laugh all you want, the price was right and I can keep it in the water, so no issue doing bunks, fenders, and whatever else the trailer needs. Plus it is galvinized, which is worth a bit more, at least around me.

Does anyone have anything positive to say?? hahaha
Old    Scott (scotthons)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-05-2013, 10:29 AM Reply   
Congrats on the boat! I am sure you will enjoy it. You might want to check out the Supra forums as well. I am sure those guys can help you with weighting and other good advise.
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 10:36 AM Reply   
Well I pick it up on Sunday and will have more pictures and details. Like I said, it's both my first direct drive and my first wake/ski boat. I'm not a newb to boats in general or wrenching. I certainly didn't pick this up hoping for a perfect ride. Make sure it runs well, then do some carpet, build dome proper seats, add a tower, and stereo... Yeah there's some work for sure!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-05-2013, 10:42 AM Reply   
If you got it for a good price and have the time and ability to do some fixes/upgrades yourself than perfect. You will have a lot of fun a very cheap price. The best part is if you did pay in the 3-5 range you will almost for sure be able to sell it for about that much. Zero depreciation is nice. Congrats and keep us updated on some of your projects. I think people posting their projects and how they do them are the best threads on wakeworld.

What is the rear thing in between the seats? It almost looks like the boat is setup to be an inboard and an inboard outboard. Is that Supra's new dual drive system? Whatever it is I would consider ripping it out and building a custom seat that goes all the way across for the rear. If you feel like doing it fancy make it like some boats and have a single piece seat base that goes from side to side that can be placed down low for seating or up high to make a bigger sunpad as well as have room for a big ballast sack.

Definitely check on the Supra forum. There are a few guys that have older sunsports and similar boats.
Old    Jesse (NotSure123)      Join Date: Nov 2012       03-05-2013, 10:59 AM Reply   
Ahhh take what these guys say with a grain of salt! I think it's a cool older boat, and even cooler that you are willing to freshen her up. So what if it's not a 60K+ newer boat! You don't need to spend a ridiculous ass load of cheese to have a great time on the water! It will be a fun project and you won't be afraid to "get it wet". Congrats!
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 11:39 AM Reply   
Hahahahaha Supra's "dual drive system" I actually laughed out loud. I have NO idea what the PO was thinking when he put that there other than he had seen that on I/O's and thought it was the "proper" way??? It's coming out, like immediately and I an loving the convertible back bench seat idea, so that's what I'll do. As all the direct drive guys seem to be, I'm all about wanting space and seating! Plus a big cavity for a 750lb bag would be sweet.

And I don't want to give everything away, but guys I am very easily within the range everybody is throwing out. I think I bought it right, and I am more than willing to work on it! Zero depreciation is hella nice. I might actually break out the buffer and some marine carpet and make a buck! Oh wait, I don't want to sell it
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-05-2013, 11:43 AM Reply   
Congrats.. Once you're done with it - you'll have no less fun than average joe who spends $50k on their boat.. looks like a project for sure - but giddy up.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-05-2013, 11:55 AM Reply   
Congrats and like others have said some people just don't get it when somebody doesn't want to drop 50,000 or more on a wake boat. Then they expect every other boat to look just as nice as their's.
Old    MICAH HARPER (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-05-2013, 12:07 PM Reply   
lol
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Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 12:14 PM Reply   
hahahaha you guys are awesome. Yeah it definitely isn't a show boat, but for my level I imagine it has plenty of go. Plus I hear good things about the wake. Seeing as the last wake I was behind was an 18ft OB sea ray.... What do you guys think, step up???
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       03-05-2013, 12:46 PM Reply   
Good luck with the boat. I hope you got some cash saved for all the extra goodies to add to it. Life jackets, ballast, ropes. Are you going to try and surf behind it? This will definitely be an improvement over the Sea Ray. You should meet up with some of the locals and see if they have a newer boat. When you get pulled behind one with Perfect Pass, you will never want to go back to a boat that doesn't have PP. As far as the wake, you should definitely see an improvement. What are you going to do for a tower?
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       03-05-2013, 12:49 PM Reply   
Hey man, whatever gets you out on the water. You'll still be better off then the people on the beach or dock. Besides with enough bikini's around you it doesn't matter what the boat looks like.lol.

If you got the time and know how to fix things and get them where you want then have at it. We all have to start somewhere as we don't all have the luxury of our parents buying us spendy ass boats. entitlement is rampent these days!!
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 12:55 PM Reply   
No plans for surfing right now. They obviously could change since one of my friends and riders is a Jersey surfer kid (think NOT jersey shore), as for gear, I've got jackets, a nice wake rope set up, anchors, etc. This is actually my 4th boat and funny enough, my smallest. Everything else was go fast/cuddy type. I'm sure I can drool over a lot of things like PP, stereo, bigger motor, swap to v-drive, etc, but I'm happy to start with what I have.

As for towers, how about some recommendations?
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 1:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrider View Post
Hey man, whatever gets you out on the water. You'll still be better off then the people on the beach or dock. Besides with enough bikini's around you it doesn't matter what the boat looks like.lol.

If you got the time and know how to fix things and get them where you want then have at it. We all have to start somewhere as we don't all have the luxury of our parents buying us spendy ass boats. entitlement is rampent these days!!
This is what I'm talking about right here! I've restored teak, wrenched on small blocks and big blocks, bufffed/wet sanded oxidation, can wire up a solid stereo as well as an average tech, and the wood working and vinyl I can handle as well. So with some elbow grease and patience.... I see a bikini stacked ride
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       03-05-2013, 1:15 PM Reply   
That's rad. can't wait to see some wake pics. best of luck with it man.

Do you know what the dimensions of the hull are? It looks chunky
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-05-2013, 1:22 PM Reply   
I wasn't gonna say anything but since the dam is open if you only have a deposit down and its 7500 you need to walk away, pick up a clean 2001, and have fun. That thing looks like a labor of love.......for 3k. It looks like 12k if you paid 7.5. tower, speakers, cleaning it up...........gonna add up. Take this from someone who bought a cheap boat and has 30k into it
Old    Paulh (paulharenberg)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-05-2013, 1:26 PM Reply   
It may not be the trailer that matches the boat, and I wouldn't put it under my boat because it wouldn't work out, but I would love a roll on trailer. Makes almost any ramp accessible.

As for towers, keep it old school. Pick up a used extended pylon from somewhere on here or ebay or craiglists. Put the rest of the coin into restoring the boat. The pylon does everything you would want it to do and when you decide on a tower you won't lose too much value in it if you sell it (assuming there is still a pylon market when that is.)
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 1:28 PM Reply   
Well I just called Skiers Choice for kicks and according to the archives, it's 19'6", 95" wide, and weights in at 2800lbs (dry). I'll admit it.... my boat looks fat.

According to rumors, the newer Supra Launch Series is loosely based off this hull
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-05-2013, 1:33 PM Reply   
William no worries! I definitely did NOT pay $7500!!! If I had to rip the floor out and do stringers, I would be mad as hell, but still wouldn't be upside down.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-05-2013, 2:33 PM Reply   
I think sometimes with all the new loaded 75k+ boats out there, many forget what is actually necessary to get out on the water. I didn't find this site until a few years ago, yet back then people still had no issues using 1980's 2001 Nautiques, Malibu DDs, etc. Now, people argue about even the 100k+ boats and their ability to get the job done for them.

My advice, fix whats necessary, enjoy it, and move on when the time comes. Do not sink a ton of money into it, as you will never recoup it. The key is being mechanically savvy, if you are these older boats are a great value. Congrats on the purchase.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-06-2013, 5:39 AM Reply   
If you got it for closer to 3 rather than 5, I would say you did okay - not hating but that isn't a 7/10... that's more like a 4-5/10... My opinion is that these mid 80s boats should not be 8-12k anymore. They jumped in price a while back but they aren't gold, they need work... Fully restored I'd say its a 9-11k boat, and that boat needs 5k by my estimation - depends how handy you are. Check the stringers and floor - don't want to load up a boat and hit double ups if it's water logged. The prop looks like its been welded and hammered on. Check your strut bushings, stuffing box (where the shaft exits the boat), rudder seals etc... Don't want to be taking on water on your maiden voyage...

Good luck with her, throw on an extended pylon, some sacs, new vinyl, buff and some chics and you'll be rocking!
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-06-2013, 6:03 AM Reply   
Sounds like I'm on point. I jumped and stomped on the floor everywhere I could and it's rock solid. Obviously that doesn't mean the stringers are the same... But I'm not inclined to tear up the floor to check. The motor/motor mounts seem solid. Thanks for the heads up on the seals, what is a strut housing? No plan to hit double ups yet, because my riding isn't on that level, though the lake we ride on can get plenty rough which is why I feel real lucky to find a boat with more freeboard and a steeper entry V up front.

It will definitely get a major buff, tune up, vinyl work, and fresh carpet. There are plans for a new rear bench and hopefully tower if I have the $$$

This is a before/after of my last boat
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Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-06-2013, 6:47 AM Reply   
So instead of this "I didn't pay that game," what did you pay for it?
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-06-2013, 7:24 AM Reply   
3k even
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-06-2013, 8:07 AM Reply   
Fair price I'd say. Definitely do bunks on the trailer and make/install a cage to the trailer around your prop shaft and running gear to protect them. I would get that prop looked at by a pro to be sure it's good...

The strut is the support angle that holds the prop shaft under the boat. Usually they have vinyl bushings that will wear if the prop shaft is misaligned or bent. They are cheap, best just to replace them. Verify the propshaft is properly aligned with the rear of the transmission so that you don't have trouble with the rear bearings/seals of the transmission.

You may be able to remove one bolt of a motor mount to see the wood inside or try to tighten them. If they squish the stringer, you know you have issues. Be sure nothing is drilled through the floor into the stringers - there will be issues. Those boats are notorious, as are most from the era, of rotted stringers. They were mass produced and just not built the best. You will be able to check the stringers in a few areas without moving the floor.

Does the hour meter actually work? Does it clock when the key is turned or when the engine is running. Those engines are bombproof to 2k hrs+ I would say, especially if it hasn't been slammed daily.

Can I have your pink waterski rope?
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-06-2013, 8:55 AM Reply   
$2500-$3500 I think is fair for a rough SunSport if stringers are solid. I'd deduct $500-$1000 for the wrong trailer. Not an inboard trailer and I don't like rollers, they can crack the gel and deform the hull.

Biggest concern is stringer condition. If rotted you're in a a $3k+ job and a lot of hours of messy work. Did you knock on the stringer with a wrench? Knock the whole length, should get a sharp solid sound. Anything dull, muffled or hollow is an indication of water or rot. Did you try tightening all the motor mount and trans mount bolts? Don't crank on them real hard, but they should snug up and not spin loose or be stripped. If they spin and won't tighten up then you most likely have stringer rot.

Personally if I was in the market for a project I'd pay around $2k for that. If it had a proper trailer and the interior wasn't hacked $2500-$3000.

Check that prop, it looks like it has a bent blade. Also recommend checking/replacing cutlass bearings and check engine alignment. An engine way out of alignment could be an indication of stringer rot and subsequent shifting of motor mounts.

For what it's worth I have an '89 Saltare so am familiar with early Supras. They're great boats, but as with all boats with wood stringers you gotta watch out for rot and if stringers have never been done expect that it'll need them at some point. The factory slapped these things together and there are often areas of exposed wood where they missed or didn't get full coverage with glass. If it wasn't for the foam in these boats they probably wouldn't rot out. Foam holds water so when you get water in the boat it never finds its way out. Over time if the boat stays wet and foam saturated it will soak through the relatively porous polyester resin used on these boats. If it's all solid, do your best to keep it dry. Also check out http://www.supraboats.com/bbs. Lots of us over there with early Supras.
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-06-2013, 9:26 AM Reply   
I was getting attached to that rope.... How about $50..? Okay okay I'll do $30

I'll get to looking it over more on Sunday and give a report on what I find. I'll plan on getting the prop looked at/worked. It just so happens one of the best prop shops in the Northeast is an hour away. Thanks for the heads up on the other bits. I really want to tear out that mess in the back of my boat... Super good to hear the motors are reliable!
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-06-2013, 10:13 AM Reply   
Dude, I used to work in Cuse. I live in N Vermont now. Lake Delta is where I ride when I'm home near Rome. We'll teach ya how to drive and slam that thing! No power turns though!
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-06-2013, 12:25 PM Reply   
Sounds good brah! This is my 4th boat but first inboard so I'll need lessons! Why can't I power turn??lol I just want to be boarding
Old    Daniel (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-06-2013, 12:34 PM Reply   
Looks to be a great project. I still love the old supra's.
I had an 87 pirata. Would do good through the chop if you kept weight in the nose. But as soon as the nose climbed and you exposed that flat back end it didn't feel to good.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-06-2013, 2:39 PM Reply   
http://wakeworld.com/news/feature/fr...powerturn.html There you go on the powerturns.
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-10-2013, 10:48 AM Reply   
Hate to admit it... In the daylight inspection, she was a wreck. Got my deposit back and walked away. Owner lied on a couple of things, and I missed some major cracks in the poor lighting when I saw it
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-10-2013, 12:51 PM Reply   
Whoops just read the rest of your post so this is an edit....... Here is what I had to say below. Still might be worth beating him up more on price or share with the guys on Supraboats.com. There are lots of guys that look for this model.

......Nice work. Yeah that hull will still create a money wake and yes you are correct that the Launch 21 and Launch 21V do loosely share some lineage from what I know. If you have not been to www.supraboats.com, you should. There is a forum on there and most of the guys are rocking the older Supras and should be tons of help to you. Congrats.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-10-2013, 4:11 PM Reply   
Where is it located?
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-11-2013, 5:52 AM Reply   
Delta is off the Manchester exit, technically in the town of Canadaguia. The stingers are rotten and expanded enough to have split the fiberglass that houses them. And the engine mount bolts will turn with little pressure from a box end wrench. There is a 2ft crack that runs from the bow eye down the keel. I knew the boat needed some work and did my best to check it over thoroughly in the dark, but the guy purposely hid a few things from me. One blade of the prop is bent towards the bottom, though easily fixable by a competent prop shop. it may run as is, but it is NOT a 3k boat. Just to be usable for the summer, it needs a basic stereo and and the bow cushions built. That's just to be usable. Then come winter, it will need a full stringer and transom build, plus likely some major fiberglass work in the front. Also the floor seems solid, but the engine hutch screws have pulled through, so obviously there are some soft spots even if minor.

I will head over to supraboats and share it. I honestly planned for the stringers to be bad, but the crack running down the keel was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. I can't imagine the thing is worth 3K
Old    Chad (LFMCrider6)      Join Date: Jun 2011       03-11-2013, 6:28 AM Reply   
Jeremiah,
I boat on Seneca lake not to far from there. I buy all my boats from Seager marine "Preston" my sales man is awesome, he may know where some boats are just stop in and ask. Sorry to hear that the boat was dead. Hope you find one !
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-11-2013, 6:32 AM Reply   
Stringers are more costly and a bigger headache than patching a keel - IMO. The keel will be out of the water when running.

I'd offer him 1800 if the engine runs and has good compression numbers. You can do the stringers and floor for 2-3k, interior for 2 and add a pole to the boat and be in it for 7ish... And it'll be worth 8-9 after you buff it out if you do a nice job on the interior. If I had a garage I'd scoop it up if he was willing to deal. It looks like a pile but for the right price, it'd be worth it for sure.
Old    Jeremiah Long (machloosy)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-12-2013, 7:38 AM Reply   
I think it's worth it for $1500 if you have $5K to drop on it. Problem is, that fine gentleman got angry at me because I decided not to buy it. And now has no interest in returning my calls or dealing. As you can see, the boat also sits on a roller trailer as it has for the past 7-10yrs, so with rotten stringers, I'm beginning to worry about the hull getting "wavey"
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-12-2013, 7:50 AM Reply   
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/boa/3674192474.html
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       03-12-2013, 3:09 PM Reply   
That boat has been for sale for a while... if it was worth 2400, it would have sold by now (they've been asking 2500 for a long time). The dealer/seller couldn't get me a video of the engine running or verify that the trailer would make it to NY... They were also unwilling to take additional pictures, negotiate, nothing...

RUNNING 2001 nautiques have been selling for the 4grand range with decent interiors, 3 grand running with rebuilt engines needing a little TLC...
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-12-2013, 4:38 PM Reply   
Tough luck on the SunSport. Keep looking and you'll find the right boat. If you're looking for a open bow under $10k though you're looking mostly at older Supras. Composite boats start around $10k. Closed bow and there's a lot more available in the lower price range, particularly SN2001. Just be sure to check stringers well and if rotten offer accordingly if you're up to the job.

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