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Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-12-2013, 9:47 AM Reply   
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphben...-conversation/

Please, I'd love to hear the justification for the purchase of 100 years worth of "practice" ammunition. Also the justification for the purchase of so many hollow point bullets in .40 S&W, which costs over double what FMJ ammo costs.

Or armored vehicles to go with enough ammo to sustain a war for 20 years.

Sure it might just be reckless spending... And if it is, yes, let's let the DHS spend 500 million dollars on ammunition, but not fund military education benefits (like that other topic) or other cuts.

Amazingly, that wacko Alex Jones's site, InfoWars was the first to report on this months ago, but of course since he reported on it it had to be BS. I hate the guy and all because he is clearly a wacko, but if even a miniscule percentage of his crazy is accurate, I fear for this nation.
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-12-2013, 10:26 AM Reply   
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-12-2013, 10:49 AM Reply   
It's called reckless spending, and if you can't actually add anything into a conversation without leaping into attacking anyone who has different beliefs than you Big D, please step away from the conversation. Rather than address anything in the post, you just made an overarching ridiculous statement meant to shut down any kind of discussion about something that is completely absurd for the government to do. Especially based on the article below.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...und/?hpt=hp_t3

Last edited by wakeboardern1; 03-12-2013 at 10:51 AM.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-12-2013, 10:51 AM Reply   
Nick; I saw the Email that said Homeland Securty bought enough Hallow Point rounds to wage a 5-7 year war.
The Email said the amount of ammo that homeland Securty bought was part of a program that Homeland Security purchaced it under was called Infadent supply. This was a program that was started a few years back like 2009. They either knew Ammo was going to be in short supply or hard to get so they ramped up and started collecting ammo. "Sort of dooms day prepping " LOL but prepping was not as Main Stream back then. So to answer your question I think it's a case where the government ramped up a few years back and no one cared. But now this information is now being used to either Scair people into some sort of Ammo Buying frenzy. Or it's people trying to induce some sort of conspiracy theory. I'm a glass half full guy so it might be what many people think and I'm way of base
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-12-2013, 10:59 AM Reply   
Grant, I'm inclined to view it as, like they said in the forbes article, beaurocrats running amok. However, the possibilities of preparing for an insurgency from anti-government types or creating de-facto gun control by limiting the supply of ammunition to people are both very realistic. Especially with the current political climate with people waking up about the Patriot Act, the clauses in the NDAA that allow indefinite detention, the 100 mile Constitution free zone on the borders of the nation, and the attempts by the current administration. Congress and state governments attempting to either restrict or outright ban firearms.

None of what I just stated above are conspiracy theories Big D. They are legitimate issues violating our Constitutional rights that have been taken up by the ACLU. You can try researching this stuff instead of just dismissing it, and you will find many legitimate sources regarding these topics including government websites.
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-12-2013, 11:01 AM Reply   
Nick - all of your posts are end of the world conspiracy theories that are straight off the prison planet / info wars boards. I don't know why you're so surprised when you post that stuff here and you get laughed at.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-12-2013, 11:05 AM Reply   
But it's not from InfoWars. It's from legitimate news websites. How can you dismiss stuff when it actually winds up in the mainstream media? Or when the ACLU is fighting against it? You blatantly ignore the meat of my posts and focus on the headline or pick out what you want to take from it, rather than actually trying to read and comprehend what I'm saying.

It's not end of the world stuff at all, but it does raise questions about what our government thinks they're doing. Blindly believing everything the government feeds you is just as insane as the end of the world nut jobs.

P.S. I have never once visited InfoWars, or watched an Alex Jones video, and the only forums that I ever frequent are this and when I'm lurking on nutritional and fitness boards to learn better techniques to work out. What I do do though is troll through legitimate media sources and when they put up a topic like this, I feel that it should be shared. If that's an end of the world conspiracy theorist, then holy **** I don't know what you actually think of those PrisonPlanet and InfoWars people.

In your mind it seems to be that anyone who doesn't fit with your beliefs is either a whackjob conspiracy theorist or some kind of braindead imbecile.

Last edited by wakeboardern1; 03-12-2013 at 11:14 AM.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-12-2013, 11:53 AM Reply   
They probably got a discount for buying in bulk.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-12-2013, 12:03 PM Reply   
Its a little more than they need, but not much.

It has more to do with increased training requirements. Officers arent that happy about it either, as they feel they have to "qualify" too often already. They "waste" a TON of ammo reminding the brass every quarter that they can still hit a target with their sidearm.

You can look at it as its good that they are getting more training, or bad that their wasting ammo.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       03-12-2013, 1:10 PM Reply   
Thats nice,but I'd like to be able to actually buy ammo,without either not being able to find it or getting raped for it.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-12-2013, 2:29 PM Reply   
Paul, for sure. I wish there was a like button for comments on WakeWorld sometimes.

Thanks for replying like a decent person who want's discussion Jason. I'm curious as to how many employees they have that actually require firearm training. A number I'm reading is 188,000 federal employees and 200,000 contractors. Now, if all 188,000 of them are being firearm trained, that's 8500 rounds per person in a year for training, which sounds about right. However, why would the DHS, a department that provides primarily oversight and watchdog operations to assist other agencies, have 188,000 personnel trained on firearms? Are they supplying local police departments with this ammunition as well? Or is it for all in house use?

Their previous statistics being 15 million rounds a year in training is a far cry from 1.6 billion, and even, even if they doubled their training expenditure to 30 million a year, you're looking at 53 years worth of training ammunition. I'm sorry, but at a time when budget cuts are extremely necessary, this strikes me as extremely wasteful spending. I mean there are police departments all across the country that can't even afford to pay for their officers training ammunition, couldn't we use the funds for better reasons? Like properly funding local police departments?

Ricardo, I feel you man. It does not exist where I'm at, well except for shotgun shells. If all else fails, it seems that I'll always be able to skeet shoot. This "government's gunna take your guns" nonsense has become a massive PITA.

http://rt.com/usa/dhs-million-point-government-179/

http://rt.com/usa/california-gun-program-model-157/

http://rt.com/usa/government-trust-americans-poll-172/

It's amazing how much information you can find on RT rather than paying attention to Fox News, CNN or MSNBC. It's even generally a left leaning news service.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-12-2013, 3:04 PM Reply   
The average SWAT guy doesn't get 8500 rounds a year for practice. Even the high risk(L.A.. N.Y) doesn't get 8500 a year- Maybe 2500 at most.

I think they're intentionally drying up the civilian supply.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-12-2013, 3:42 PM Reply   
1.5 Billion in waste and no one on this site is even surprised or upset, well, the company that made the ammunition made a good profit, doubt if they need it though.
Old    Ifishok™ (ifishok)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-13-2013, 4:11 AM Reply   
It's just a form of gun control, clear as day to me. Go look at the shelf's where ammo is sold, they are bare, you can't get any pistol ammo or 223,308 etc. What if they did this with food or gas? It's all about some sort of control by the feds. I think the ammo company's need to stop selling to the government since they have more than they need, and sell to the people that supported them in the 1st place, us.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       03-13-2013, 5:10 AM Reply   
I think Barry is right and its passive gun control. Like I said, DHS guys are annoyed by it as well. The only positive is that if history repeats itself, in 10 years or so, these will all hit the streets as "surplus" (for some reason they dont let it sit on the shelves all that long) and ammo will be cheap. I havent followed ammo prices all that long, but some of the old dogs say that this isnt the first time supply and demand have gotten skewed.

The biggest lesson I have learned is that when you see the old guys buying bulk, dont laugh. Go to the ATM. I cant count how many times I went in saw a thousand rounds of 5.7 and thought, "meh, no reason to spend the $350". That same 1000 rounds is $1500+ today.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-13-2013, 11:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
1.5 Billion in waste and no one on this site is even surprised or upset, well, the company that made the ammunition made a good profit, doubt if they need it though.
We are sending $250M to the Muslim Brotherhood. Too many things out there to get outraged about.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-13-2013, 12:13 PM Reply   
I wonder how much we are sending to the Westboro people?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-13-2013, 12:40 PM Reply   
John, I feel like that is part of the problem. Everyone feels that there is just too much to be outraged about, so they let apathy take over. That leads to an irresponsible government that spends more than it should, takes more than it should and begins to believe that it is above the founding documents of the nation.

I think if people actually tried to shake themselves from the apathy and stood up against this blatant irresponsibility by the government (both sides), we might see a shift in this stuff. But everyone has just resigned themselves to the status quo, and that might be the biggest problem with our country. I feel like some are waking up (The Ron Paul movement picked up a lot of steam last year, and it's continuing) and doing what they can, but some is not enough.

In no way should it be construed that I am even remotely advocating violence. But I'm seeing more and more people on the internet talking like it's going to come to that, which is distressing. Responsible legislation and educating voters properly would do mind blowing wonders for the state of the nation.

Last edited by wakeboardern1; 03-13-2013 at 12:42 PM.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-13-2013, 1:48 PM Reply   
Problem is that everyone is apathetic or more specifically concerned about different things. I imagine the Congressman who championed this deal was in the same state as the ammo provider. Only about 2% of our leaders represent us (i.e. we only vote for 1 out of 50 states). In another thread they are bitch'n about Obamacare. But nobody has been bitch'n that the govt has been giving fed tax revenue to the HI industry for decades. Who's bitch'n that the govt has been giving tax revenue to the mortgage industry or retirement funds for decades. We all like our govt gifts.

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