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Old    Nick (jeepdude)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-20-2013, 10:45 AM Reply   
So Guys and Girls here is the question:

we currently have a Toyota epic DD 22 footer.
It has been a great boat, but is lacking in some areas. the main one being we cannot get a surf wave no matter the amount of weight. (yes, i know it is DD and that is part of the problem)
I will miss the incredible gas mileage though.

So I have been shopping hard and have come to the conclusion that I am going to pull the trigger on a new boat with the used market being what it is.

The three boats i am considering are:
2013 Tige R20
2013 Malibu 21 Ride
2012 Centurion sv-211 (left over at a nearby dealer)

As we have gotten older, we have started to surf a lot behind our friends boats, but cannot do it behind ours. so this is a main concern, however, we still wake skate and wakeboard and even recreationally ski quite a bit.

Which of these boats to you think will be the best all around boat?

Lastly, i know there are a lot of other boats out there that can do what i want even better, but i have a budget and these are the ones that fit into it, so please keep it to these unless you know of another boat that can do the better in the same range.

I look forward to your thoughts.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       02-20-2013, 11:09 AM Reply   
I'd say keep your ride and surf with your friends.

Betting the Tige and Centurion surf best out of the 3...
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-20-2013, 12:03 PM Reply   
I'm not super familiar with the centurion, but the other 2 we looked at during our search last fall. I can tell you those are 2 totally different boats. The Vride is the old VLX hull and will probably wakeboard better. The R20 properly weighted will probably surf better. Vride is bigger and more plush. In my mind those really aren't equally comparable boats. If price was equal I'd take the Vride all day.

Plus price shouldn't be even close. I was quoted about 8K more for a demo 2012 Vride(almost a 100 hours) versus a brand new 2013 R20. I bet 2013 to 2013 your 10K plus difference.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-20-2013, 12:37 PM Reply   
If the Malibu is in your budget, I would take it all day long over the other two brands. It's going to do everything you need very well, and everything in the boat is going to hold up years down the road.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       02-20-2013, 12:39 PM Reply   
The R20 is the same hull as the RZR which is a great surf boat. When we bought our RZR last fall we looked at the malibu ride and vtx. The bu has a good wakeboard wake but no where near the surf wave you can get with the tige if you get the surf ballast option.
Old    Nick (jeepdude)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-20-2013, 5:21 PM Reply   
the v-ride and the Tige are within 2-3k.
the centurion is actually the one i would be breaking the bank for.

I have owned Malibu's in the past, and had descent luck with them.
The VTX is actually my dream boat.

The other brands are offering more, or i wouldn't even be asking for others opinions. the malibu wakeboard wake is my favorite too.

the tige comes with snap out carpet, the surf ballast and convex vx surf platform deal. it only has a 305ci engine, but it makes 300 horse which is more than all the other boats i have owned, so i figured with a high altitude prop i should be fine.

the Centurion, i am stretching my budget for, but it is loaded, however, there are no centurion dealers within 2-3 hours of me. but there are plenty of PCM authorized dealers within minutes.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-20-2013, 5:22 PM Reply   
The dealer should be considered in the equation.The Tige will surf best on both sides whereas the centurion will surf well on the regular side with less weight than the Malibu.The Malibu will have a clean wakeboard wake at slower speeds than the other two.The Malibu will have a marginally better slalom wake also,but the Tige and Centurion will be fine for recreational skiing.The Malibu will have the most room.The Tige will have the 360 service plan if you step up to the RZR which also has the ALPHA Z tower and Tige touch as well as Taps 2.I would strongly recommend the surf or pro ballast system on the Tige with the pro system being preferred.Demo each boat so you can see which one is best for your needs.Good Luck!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-20-2013, 6:14 PM Reply   
Man if they are that close you are either getting ripped on the R20 or grabbing a smoking deal on the VRide. I bought an RZR(10K minimum more than an R20) for a little less than a year older demo Vride(2013 vs 2012). I don't know pricing on the malibu, but do on the R20. Sale price with the option you listed should be in the 48K range, I'm guessing you are being quoted way higher if the price is close to the Vride. The R20 does fine with the 305 ci/ 303hp PCM, but most prefer the 343 hp. When we demo'd we had 9 in the boat and the ballast full and it planned fine.
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       02-20-2013, 7:31 PM Reply   
Sanger 215 would be a boat to add to the mix. Not sure what part of the Country you live in but will put out a nice surf wake.
Old    Nick (jeepdude)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-20-2013, 8:04 PM Reply   
Its more a smoking deal on the V-ride.
the base on the tige was right around where you said, but optioned up with the 5.7 and a few other things to make it equal to the v-ride they come very close.

Can I also say though, that the warranty on indmar being dependent on your insurance company is some major BS.

there are no Sangers here, except old drag boats, and secondly, from what i have read they aren't really in the same price range as these.

Last edited by jeepdude; 02-20-2013 at 8:06 PM. Reason: continuation of comment
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       02-20-2013, 8:34 PM Reply   
All three choices should be great boats. It is just a guess but the Malibu will probably have the best wakeboard wake but also the weakest surf wake. I have a friend who bought a 2009 ride 23 last year. It is a really nice boat.

I can't think of his wakeworld handle right now but the guy with the all white RZR has posted some pictures of a pretty banger looking wakeboard wake. I seem to remember seeing some great surf wake pictures as well. Since you mentioned fuel economy doesn't the RZR/R20 perform pretty good with a 5.0L vs the 5.7L?

Not sure of the wakeboard wake on the Centurion but if it is anything like the other Centurions should surf really well.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       02-20-2013, 9:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
All three choices should be great boats. It is just a guess but the Malibu will probably have the best wakeboard wake but also the weakest surf wake. I have a friend who bought a 2009 ride 23 last year. It is a really nice boat.

I can't think of his wakeworld handle right now but the guy with the all white RZR has posted some pictures of a pretty banger looking wakeboard wake. I seem to remember seeing some great surf wake pictures as well. Since you mentioned fuel economy doesn't the RZR/R20 perform pretty good with a 5.0L vs the 5.7L?

Not sure of the wakeboard wake on the Centurion but if it is anything like the other Centurions should surf really well.
Brett, I think you are thinking of me. I don't have any good pics of the wakeboarding wake behind my boat but here's a quick video clip using just 1000lbs of the 1600lbs surf ballast @ 23.6mph (faster than we normally ride), 3 adults and 2 kids in the boat (430lbs).

http://vimeo.com/46993770

The surf wake is not too bad...







Simplej has some good wakeboard wake pics behind his RZR.
Old    Nick (jeepdude)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-21-2013, 5:26 AM Reply   
Those are really solid surf waves for a 20ft. boat.
thanks for the pictures
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-21-2013, 11:37 AM Reply   
Nick I wasn't giving base price. That should be sale price with everything you listed except the 343. But you said the boat had the 305 ci/ 303 hp. I can buy that boat with everything you said plus a few more options for 46K. Then I'd have to add the VX for $1800.

If you can buy a Vride for 50K I'd be all over it. Wouldn't even consider the R20 against a 50K Vride.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       02-21-2013, 3:22 PM Reply   
If it was RZR vs V Ride I would lean RZR all day if you want to get into surfing. Seems like the V Ride is the better option here since it is the smoking good deal and the R20 is just normal price.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-21-2013, 8:28 PM Reply   
Rzr/r20 is a great hull and takes very little weight to make wakes. TJs has a similar shape to mine though I know we weight differently, has a TON of push. I literally just toss a 450 under the bench and fill surf ballast on the corner and go. And yes I've posted many pics of the wake, and I think it's a good one although everyone has their preferences
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-21-2013, 8:36 PM Reply   
TJ your wake looks almost identical to mine . Your roost is a lot bigger though. You're running a full 3k? What taps/speed/line length are you at in those videos?

Whenever I see a pic of me on the wake that I posted in the z1 thread I always think it looks like a smaller version of a Pic iron j posted of a crushed 230 but maybe not.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-22-2013, 7:31 AM Reply   
Does the Vride have surfgate? That's something to consider for sure. Haven't kept up with whether Malibu is offering Surfgate on the Vrides or not.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       02-22-2013, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
TJ your wake looks almost identical to mine . Your roost is a lot bigger though. You're running a full 3k? What taps/speed/line length are you at in those videos?

Whenever I see a pic of me on the wake that I posted in the z1 thread I always think it looks like a smaller version of a Pic iron j posted of a crushed 230 but maybe not.
It's hard to say. If you are talking about the couple of wakeboarding videos on my Vimeo page, the setup is (for the most part):

22.6mph
TAPS 2-3
Rear Ballast - 600lbs (50% full)
Rear Batteries - 220lbs
Rear Lead (for balancing weight side to side) - 100lbs
Front Ballast - 400lbs (100% full)
Front Stereo/Lead - 600lbs

Most of those videos we only have 1 adult and 2 kids in the boat.

Our river depth kinda sucks and is on average 10-12' so the wake can be really inconsistent. I've yet to get a good video or pic of it when it is money.
Old    TJ (Houstonshark)      Join Date: Jan 2011       02-22-2013, 11:10 AM Reply   
I forgot to add that the rope length is normally 65', sometimes 70'.
Old    Kronos (kronoss)      Join Date: Oct 2010       02-23-2013, 10:58 PM Reply   
R20 is a very solid boat, the surf wake has a lot of push compared with the malibu.

I would even say, the R20 surf wake is better than an 23 V-ride.
Old    Nick (jeepdude)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-26-2013, 7:25 AM Reply   
Well Guys,

I did a lot of thinking and haggling and my boat selection has completely changed, but here it is.
I have brought it down to the R20 - which thanks to boardman, I have in a reasonable price range now and a late comer the Calabria Team-V.
Not a very talked about boat on here, but i have seen some pictures of killer surf waves being made with it. pictures aren't always the whole story though, so has anyone ridden this wave and loved it? i am apprehensive about considering it as I havent been behine one since it was a brendella.

To be honest, I think the Tige is probably a better boat from a wake perspective, but the interior of the Calabria is loaded with every option, a nice super wide beam and a tandem axle trailer.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-26-2013, 9:40 AM Reply   
If it is between Tige and Calibra I'd go Tige. It will do everything you want and will sell easier if you ever decide to sell it.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-26-2013, 10:52 AM Reply   
I would go with the Tige with the same things in mind. If you want a few more options look into the RZR, same hull more bling.
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       02-26-2013, 12:04 PM Reply   
All you can do try to be informed. I am a Centurion guy and would have leaned that way, but I understand why you or anyone would go another direction. I owned a Tige and liked it too. As for surfing, looking at the wave tells you very little from my experience. It is all in the push. I had a large wake on my Tige but the Centurion has much better push. You should check out both for push before buying.

Last edited by dejoeco; 02-26-2013 at 12:05 PM. Reason: spelling
Old    Nick (jeepdude)      Join Date: Apr 2011       02-26-2013, 12:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejoeco View Post
All you can do try to be informed. I am a Centurion guy and would have leaned that way, but I understand why you or anyone would go another direction. I owned a Tige and liked it too. As for surfing, looking at the wave tells you very little from my experience. It is all in the push. I had a large wake on my Tige but the Centurion has much better push. You should check out both for push before buying.
Dennis,

I would love the centurion as the boat is loaded and an awesome all around boat. however the problem is the boat is loaded, so a year old and trying to talk them down i am still at a huge cost difference and that difference keeps me from paying cash.
I am not willing to take on another payment at the moment.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       02-27-2013, 7:11 AM Reply   
@ Dennis, he is talking about a Enzo 211, not sure that you demo'd a 21 or any other brand other than Centurion, glad to hear you love your new ride
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-27-2013, 8:18 AM Reply   
the new r20 is sweet looking and was the best priced at the new england show option for option. its a great hull, enjoy it!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-27-2013, 1:13 PM Reply   
The R20 is priced well. If I bought one bone stock I could be under 45K. I don't think there is another manufacturer that can get anywhere close to that in an entry level V-drive.
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       02-28-2013, 9:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
The R20 is priced well. If I bought one bone stock I could be under 45K. I don't think there is another manufacturer that can get anywhere close to that in an entry level V-drive.
An Axis A20 can be had in the $45k range.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-28-2013, 10:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett_B View Post
An Axis A20 can be had in the $45k range.
A Moomba Outback V can be had for $45k or less as well.
Old    Dennis Costa (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       02-28-2013, 11:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
@ Dennis, he is talking about a Enzo 211, not sure that you demo'd a 21 or any other brand other than Centurion, glad to hear you love your new ride
I have ridden behind many boats and felt how they ride. I have been behind a 211 and it was pretty good, just not enough room inside boat for me. I could have most likely been happy with others makes of similar size to my 233, but the Centurion was the right fit at the right time. I have never been behind the MB. Someday I am sure I will.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       02-28-2013, 3:10 PM Reply   
JD and Brett, not here in Minnesota. JD knows the dealers here. Axis can't be touched for less than 50K, plus were sold out for the year and when I checked on the Outback I was quoted 55K for a floor boat.

But other places with different dealers they might be had for less then the R20. I have seen so much on here that prices are based on the DEALER not the MSRP. Which really sucks when most of the Manufacturers have protected territories and you as a consumer are stuck paying the higher price because your dealer wants to hit a home run on every deal.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-03-2013, 8:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardman74 View Post
JD and Brett, not here in Minnesota. JD knows the dealers here. Axis can't be touched for less than 50K, plus were sold out for the year and when I checked on the Outback I was quoted 55K for a floor boat.

But other places with different dealers they might be had for less then the R20. I have seen so much on here that prices are based on the DEALER not the MSRP. Which really sucks when most of the Manufacturers have protected territories and you as a consumer are stuck paying the higher price because your dealer wants to hit a home run on every deal.
F-Lake Motorsports has a 2012 Mojo 2.5 on the floor for $54k.

There is a 2012 Mobius LSV for $47k at Midwest.

You can't get an Outback V for under $45k? lol.. Enjoy MSRP
Old     (Konajay)      Join Date: Mar 2013       03-04-2013, 7:55 PM Reply   
Can't speak for the Malibu or Centurian, but I own a 2011 R20 which, when weighted properly, has an incredible surf wave. The only advice I can give you is to try and demo each one before you purchase

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