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Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-21-2012, 12:57 PM Reply   
Saw this article on the homepage....
I guess I always though Fineline was manufacturing Supreme. Who has been Manufacturing Supreme between 2009-2012 and where?
http://www.wakeworld.com/news/latest...eme-boats.html
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-21-2012, 1:31 PM Reply   
They are...under there Kal Kustoms name.

Fineline also produced Pro Am until 1997, under the Kal Kustom name which now is with Supreme. They were supposed to be like Centurions Moomba. I don't think they really caught on. Had one and it was a price point boat but it served us well and we never had an issue with it. Paid $9500 for it, used it 2 years and got $9000 on trade. Literally put gas in it and changed the oil, turn key. Always was a hard boat to find info on. Said Kal Kustom on the title and Fineline Ind. on the coast guard sticker.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-21-2012, 2:04 PM Reply   
So nothing has really changed? Fineline has been building them and still will, but just bought out Kal Kustoms? Is that it in a nutshell?
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-21-2012, 2:26 PM Reply   
Thru 2009 Supreme was built by Fineline, but owned by Kal Kustom . . . . Kal Kustom had a commercial bulding where they did their own R&D, designs, etc and Fineline literally was just the builder. In 2009 when the economy went Supreme partnered up with International Inboard, who used to build Calabria. Pro Am never was Supreme, Supreme has been their own boat line for over 40 years. Pro Am was just a budget inboard that Fineline built in the mid/late 90's.

Now for today, Centurion (Fineline) now owns Supreme. This means that they now have control of the boats, molds, models, options, etc. Where as before these things were controlled by Kal Kustom Ent. This doesn't mean really anything for the immediate future as the v226 sells itself and with the boat show season starting here in a few weeks they will be concentrating on bulding boats and getting them dialed in and off to us dealers. There no plans to change anything for the 2013 model year.

What this does mean for Supreme's future is the possibility of more models, PCM engines, Murphy dashes, more ballast options, more tower options, etc, etc. Its great for the Supreme line, I can't wait to see what the future has in store as I am the oldest and highest volume Supreme dealer in the country. It's very exciting for Supreme Boats!
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-21-2012, 3:00 PM Reply   
So they will have a hard time producing two equal boats and canabalize their own market. Will one of them be a premium brand and one a budget brand or will they just keep them how it is. They are kind of equals now right?

i.e.:
Supra/Moomba
Malibu/Axis

Last edited by tyler97217; 12-21-2012 at 3:04 PM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-21-2012, 3:06 PM Reply   
Ummm..just for gee wiz info. Pro Am was built under the Kal Kustoms name. Thats what was on my title. According to my research Fineline more or less owns Kal Kustoms. Kind of like J boats and TPI Ind. in the sailing world. Companies do this for liability and Corporate reasons, but at the end of the day the same people own both.

I never said Pro Am was Supreme. But Pro Am WAS Kal Kustoms. So it's backwards Supreme is now what Pro Am was.

I agree it can only help Supreme cooping with Fineline.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       12-21-2012, 4:19 PM Reply   
diggs, does it matter if its the same, different, does it change a decision to purchase one, just curious why you are asking. Seems like there will be more stability for supreme and will give centurion more options in r&d. plus more dealer options if they allow centurion dealers to carry supreme.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-21-2012, 5:30 PM Reply   
Trying to sort the relationship between Fineline, Kal Customs, Centurion, Supreme, and Calabria is a confusing endeavor. I have heard many different variations of who owns who or makes what, depending on the source. These are people that are close to the companies as well. I am not sure why it is so damn confusing, but it is.

(reminds me a lot of the Apache debate that rages on the go-fast forums; everyone has a variation on who made what, who owns what, and who is responsible for the amazing boats that created a legend)

Last edited by MattieK27; 12-21-2012 at 5:34 PM.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-21-2012, 6:33 PM Reply   
Doug
Just curious from a marketing perspective. Typically it is a no no in the marketing world to offer to like (equal) products cause the you steal sales from each other (product Canibalization). Typically you would diversify to hit two markets like Malibu and axis and supra and moomba. Just curious more than anything.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-21-2012, 7:12 PM Reply   
In that case I would say they are a very comparable Product. But Supreme is none existent in alot of places. I really thought they were out of business as I haven't seen one newer than say 15 years old here in..well pretty much forever. They are pretty much a west coast boat. I have also never seen an MB, or a Calabria here. The Pro Am I owed(fine line/Kal Kustoms) was also a one of a kind here. That one came in from Utah I think.

You also see very few Centurions, but I think that has to do with the dealer. Tige was the same way, but a new dealership seems to be turning Tige around here. Last I knew he had sold 26 boats still in the first year.

Matt is right, you'll never sort it out without the legal incorporation docs. I tried when I was tracing my Pro Am. One place says Kal Kustoms, next says Fineline, add in a little centurion who knows. Best i can figure is Fineline is the Parent and owns it all. Kal Kustoms used to make Pro Am and now they are making Supreme that I know.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-21-2012, 8:41 PM Reply   
Kal Kustom and Fineline are not and never have been the same company!
In the past Kal Kustom was the west coast reps for Centurion
Centurion is and always has been owned by Fineline
Kal Kustom never was owned by Fineline or owned Fineline
Kal Kustom reped for some boat lines like Centurion, Sanger they owned Reinel i/O line and Supreme
Kal Kustom is closing up shop and Centurion purchased the Supreme name and molds
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-22-2012, 6:14 AM Reply   
Thats odd. I'm curious what you are basing that on and if its always been that way. Because I owned a 1997 Pro Am Skier, on the Title it said Kal Kustoms and on the registration and Coast Guard loading sticker it said Fineline Industries. When i called Fineline LAST YEAR they told me one in the same.

No one said they were the same company. They are both Corporations and as such are separate legal entities. It is my understanding they are owned by the same people or ownership groups.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I am stating that info after hours of research and talking to Fineline. Could you share where your info came from?
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-22-2012, 7:20 AM Reply   
I think some confusion comes from the fact there was a dealer named Kal Kustoms that was for sale a while back. It was listed a while back on Craigslist, and just based on others comments familiar with the situation it was not the same company as the Supreme parent.

Like I said, everyone has a variation on the Fineline story. One has to wonder with this much confusion, are these set up as shell companies for some other reason???
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-22-2012, 8:00 AM Reply   
Kal Kustom and Fineline are not ownd by the same company never have been
My info comes from My friends at Fineline they have Never been one in the same Fineline is owned by Rick Lee and always has been
http://www.centurionboats.com/history/history-1972.html

Kal Kustom is owned by Karl Koster http://www.corporationwiki.com/Orego.../47137682.aspx
from what I hear Kal Kustom is shutting down

not shell companies!!
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-22-2012, 8:11 AM Reply   
good riddance , Karl Kastor out of the inboard market, the guy made it all so convoluted for a reason I believe, the wakeboard market will be a better place without him, Karl....you are a tool !
Old    Travis Q (motogod77)      Join Date: Aug 2008       12-22-2012, 8:31 AM Reply   
Thanks Kevin, RB your boat was just titled incorrectly from the dealer when originally purchased new, we see it all the time with boats and trailers. It should have been titled as a Pro Am, and yes the coast guard sticker would say Fineline Ind as they were the "builder".

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