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Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       10-29-2012, 10:01 AM Reply   
I was wondering if anyone has installed an enclosed subwoofer behind the drivers kick pannel on a Mastercraft X2? My last boat had a carpeted kick pannel made of HPDE and it was not that hard to remove and attached a box to the back. This one is fiberglass. If anyone has some pictures I would be thankful if you could post them.
Thank you for the help.

Lou
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Old    Kevin Skonnord (kskonn)      Join Date: Mar 2011       10-29-2012, 11:54 AM Reply   
I did not mount one there because all of the electronics are back behind there. I ended up putting in Wetsound free air subs in the fiber glass under the seats. Sounds really really good. I was a little skeptical but am glad I went this route.
Old    kx250frider617            10-29-2012, 1:14 PM Reply   
If you figure it out, can you post pictures go how it is done. How to attach a enclosure to an already existing wall.

When I made a fiberglass enclosure for my truck, I stopped by a audio shop that does custom installs. He basically let me bring the truck there and guided me through the whole build process. Your best bet would be to find a friendly install shop and pick there brains on how to do it. If the guys are cool enough, they may even help you.

Wherever you put them, make sure its in a some type of enclosure. Free air subs are convenient but the output and sound quality from a sub in an enclosure will be way better than free air.
Old    Daniel (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       10-29-2012, 2:40 PM Reply   
I'm not sure whats behind the panel, but my suggestion would be to build a enclosure then glass it to the back of that panel. Then cut out the hole needed for the sub.
Old     (Truekaotik)      Join Date: Jun 2012       10-29-2012, 2:55 PM Reply   
Seek professional help on this one.. It's way more involved and detailed than I think your realizing... Or just find a alternative (2nd choice) location... It can be done, don't get me wrong, it's just complicated to make it look right and perform...
Old    Kevin Skonnord (kskonn)      Join Date: Mar 2011       10-29-2012, 3:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kx250frider617 View Post
If you figure it out, can you post pictures go how it is done. How to attach a enclosure to an already existing wall.

When I made a fiberglass enclosure for my truck, I stopped by a audio shop that does custom installs. He basically let me bring the truck there and guided me through the whole build process. Your best bet would be to find a friendly install shop and pick there brains on how to do it. If the guys are cool enough, they may even help you.

Wherever you put them, make sure its in a some type of enclosure. Free air subs are convenient but the output and sound quality from a sub in an enclosure will be way better than free air.
Where we mounted the free air subs essientally has them compound loading inside of the fibergall enclosure underneath the seat. I was a skeptic as well but they sound unbelievable, in my last boat I had a WSXXX in a sealed box, my free airs sound a lot better than that. I am just trying to throw out all the options available.
Old    Bcd D (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       10-31-2012, 6:15 AM Reply   
I did that on my 02 X Star, which had the removable panel. When I got my 12 X-2, I considered it, but didn't think that there was enough space to mount a 12" speaker and box. The factory position is behind the driver's seat, but since they moved the cooler there, there isn't room to build a box there either. I ended up building a box and putting it under the port bench seat. It's not optimal (under a seat and loses storage), but I thought it was the best option. It is convenient because it's right by the battery distribution panel. Here's a picture (before I got the wiring cleaned up). I mounted the sub amp right on the box, and then put two more amps above the batteries (in boat and tower). I was a concerned about having enough fiberglass to screw them into, so I pulled the carpet down and glued/screwed starboard (I was cheap and used a cutting board).
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Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       10-31-2012, 9:52 AM Reply   
I have the factory JL Audio 10" Free air sub in my 2012 X-30 that is mounted behind the driver facing forward. It's weak. Nothing to write home about that's for sure. I had an Alpine in box under the passengers seat nd glovebox in my Moomba and it was much louder. I have never been a fan of, or heard a good free sub. I have contemplated trying to fab a box behind the drivers seat for the factory sub. I just don't care for the sound of it but perhaps the WS that Kevin used are a better option.
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       10-31-2012, 11:54 AM Reply   
BCD, thank you for the pictures. I am going work on this weekend. I am hoping to relocate the electrical behind the kick plate. Pretty messy under there. I really want to put it in the kick pannel to save on storage space.
Old    Kevin Skonnord (kskonn)      Join Date: Mar 2011       10-31-2012, 1:54 PM Reply   
Check out the Wetsounds Free air- I wish I had a way to post a video of these subs, They sound as good as my enclosed subs. A lot of that has to do that they are mounted in the fiberglass on my boat, in essence creating a box, it also makes a big difference to compound load them off each other. If anyone can tell me a good way to record the boat so you can get an idea of what they sound like I will be happy to do it. I know that a good box and sub is ideal but the setup I have cost me no storage space and really does sound good. By far the best free air sub I have heard.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       10-31-2012, 4:27 PM Reply   
There is absolutely no technical reason a free-air (infinite baffle, IB) subwoofer cannot sound just as good as ANY other subwoofer type....UP TO A POINT. Acoustic suspension (air suspension, small sealed, etc.) features a more linear form of suspension and better control for longer excursions so ultimately would be superior for someone who really hammers their subs at extremely high output levels. However, most people have had poor samplings of IB woofers because of bad execution. But I have heard both and when IB is executed correctly and used in the correct application they can definitely be impressive. Also, compound loading two woofers side by side with equal orientation will provide a summed performance that is far superior to two separately located woofers. And it's often a friendly installation in the right boat. On the other hand, IB woofers make no sense at all if you have a great existing position for a direct-radiating enclosed sub.
On another subject, sandwiching the fiberglass wall with an exterior woofer and an interior enclosure is very effective because it is direct radiating and eliminates losses. And in many cases you can compound load these also. Anytime you have a woofer/enclosure contained within and vented from a large and closed seating or helm console you are going to have losses. When the compartment volume and adjoining cavities are huge (making for a compliant air mass) and the vent or grill is comparatively small (creating resistance) there is less impetus for the bass radiation to flow external to the compartment. The compartment serves to filter, store and release bass energy that is out of phase with the woofer's direct radiation. You can offset some of this with a larger woofer/enclosure but to a degree the bass musicality always suffers. So the larger the vent surface area the better it will perform.
In other boats we have solved the concealed compartment issue with a bandpass enclosure. You can design an enclosure so that the port is external to the enclosure and also serves as a duct for total direct radiation that is completely isolated from the compartment. We recently did two 10-inch bandpass enclosures that were compound loaded out the same duct and it absolutely crushed the best bass-reflex single15" that we have done to date.
So there are a few ways of doing it.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Trevor (deltaMC)      Join Date: Aug 2012       11-01-2012, 10:31 PM Reply   
This is in my X-15(pretty similar) under the observer seat but there are 2 12's one facing out towards the side and the one you can see on the top. I would call Ryan at Chucktronics they do some pretty amazing stuff.
There are a lot of wires behind that driver kick panel and it can get messy trying to build near all that I have my amps mounted on a custom rack behind the driver kick panel and it left tons of room for the subs on the port side.
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Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       11-26-2012, 1:13 PM Reply   
I finally finished installing my sub. Major PITA, but it is done.


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Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       11-26-2012, 1:14 PM Reply   
opps, sorry about the side ways picture.

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Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       11-26-2012, 1:15 PM Reply   
This is the back side of the sub. Sealed enclosure.


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Old    Russ Constable (Midnightv10)      Join Date: Feb 2012       11-26-2012, 1:59 PM Reply   
Great Job!!
that looks really good
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       11-26-2012, 6:47 PM Reply   
Install looks great!! What amp do you have on the sub? What w7 is that 12 or 13?
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       11-26-2012, 9:33 PM Reply   
It is a 12 and I am putting in a 1000/1v2 this weekend. I can't wait to hear it.
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       11-27-2012, 7:22 AM Reply   
Should definitely pound!!! How big is your sealed box ? I built a ported box that 3 cubic ft with the port tuned to 32 hz with the 1000/1 and it pounds. Let us know how you like it!!
Old    Zach (zacharoo)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-27-2012, 6:42 PM Reply   
David...Could I ask you to post a picture of what your are explaining above with the Bandpass? I have a X15 with a sealed box (JL 12w6v2 powered with a JL 750/1) behind the drivers seat and gutted the JL free air to be my vent but want more boom. If I put your bandpass box with my 12 inch subwoofer in the same area as the other poster with a picture of two 12's is that what your explaining?

Zacharoo
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-27-2012, 8:07 PM Reply   
Zacharoo,
We're knee deep in a MasterCraft X80 project now. We intend to do two 13W6s with each in its own bandpass enclosure that are compound loaded into a common pan (kind of a shallow expansion chamber that won't alter the delicate enclosure tuning) and exterior vent. Both mirror image enclosures will be located in the seating console under the port side bench seat and observer's seat. So nothing inside either helm console. The enclosures are different than our standard version in that half the port is external to the enclosure to act as a duct into the open cockpit. The purpose of the external duct is to completely seal off the collective sub's output from the seating console interior to avoid the compartment losses which can easily amount to 5 or 6 dB. It's a complicated build so hopefully everything goes as planned. Perhaps in a week or so we'll have some photos to post.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-28-2012, 8:19 AM Reply   
I put 2 Kicker SKM10's under the back seats. It was a tight fit but at the end of the day...... they fit. They sound good too! It was nice because that's the storage that I never used... and I did not want to use any of my other storage due to always filling it all up with gear.
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       11-28-2012, 10:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oproaccessories View Post
I put 2 Kicker SKM10's under the back seats. It was a tight fit but at the end of the day...... they fit. They sound good too! It was nice because that's the storage that I never used... and I did not want to use any of my other storage due to always filling it all up with gear.
Pics or we don't believe you!
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-28-2012, 1:42 PM Reply   
I'll get them tonight
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-29-2012, 7:09 AM Reply   
crap.... I totally forgot till I saw this thread again. I'll try again when I go home from work.
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       11-29-2012, 10:03 AM Reply   
BCD,
What kind of glue did you use to glue the starborad to the existing fiberglass. I am getting ready to mount the amps and I am afraid the screws will come out on the other side. I was thinking about using epoxy resin to glue MDF to either side of the fiberglass portion that protrudes. The other option is 3M 5200 Marine glue. Then use some 1/2" screws to tac in place while the glue dries.
What are your thoughts?
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-29-2012, 11:22 AM Reply   
You will not find any readily available glue that will bond to KingStarboard or identical polymer by another trade name.
Eliminate MDF as an option as it will eventually become MDF soup.
Never screw into the hull. If the hull were to be 1/2" thick then as soon as you get a couple of threads to bite you are on the verge of fracturing the external gelcoat, even though the damage may not show initially. Fiberglass is not particularly strong holding screws so you need more than a couple of threads.
Look for where factory has inserted another layer under the carpet (the elevation should be obvious) specifically for mounting components. Then use a depth limiting stop on your drill bit.
If you have no such factory insert and you must mount to the hull then use .75" thick birch mounting/stand-off blocks. Drill in a number of shallow holes on the hull side of the blocks to help with a mechanical bond. Resin coat the blocks. Cut the appropriate sections of carpet away, lightly sand the raw hull interior and clean up those spots with a mild solvent such as paint thinner. Then bond the mounting blocks to the hull with a 3M fiberglass body panel adhesive (from an automotive supply which may require an expensive applicator). 3M 5200 should also do it. Or use a body filler containing fiberglass strands (Kitty Hair, etc.) and mix in some polyester resin. This will adhere and offer good structural integrity. Resin alone won't get it done. Let the blocks cure under pressure for a day. Pre-drill and screw into the blocks. All stuff you can get at any Home Depot or Lowes.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Bryce Pool (bryce2320)      Join Date: May 2012       11-29-2012, 12:30 PM Reply   
Great post David! I will definitely use that when I redo my amp rack !!
Old    Louis Teague (loux2)      Join Date: May 2004       11-29-2012, 9:43 PM Reply   
Thank you David. Great info.

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