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Old    Jody (NewWakeGirl)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-07-2012, 7:27 PM Reply   
If you're not looking for anything fancy and want something around 17-20ft just to get out and ride, what's a good used starter boat to wakeboard? Anything less than $10K? How much does insurance usually run? Anyone have a boat repair insurance?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-07-2012, 7:38 PM Reply   
nautique 2001

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/bod/3237360750.html

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/boa/3190437656.html

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/boa/3192117573.html

http://asheville.craigslist.org/boa/3143585244.html

http://greenville.craigslist.org/boa/3243059190.html

Last edited by shawndoggy; 09-07-2012 at 7:43 PM.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-07-2012, 7:38 PM Reply   
Sure there are boats that can be had for less than 10K. If your talking inboards for that price you are mostly going to be looking at the 19-20 foot closed bows. Supra TS6M Comps, Mastercarft Prostar 190's, Ski Nautique 2001s and the like. My boat insurance runs about $300 a year. If you are talking a warranty like on a car that will fix something if it breaks only on new boats. You may be able to get a dealer to give you a 30 day warranty on a used boat.
Old    Ryan (petrie141)      Join Date: Jun 2012       09-07-2012, 7:42 PM Reply   
Get ready for what's about to come if this thread takes off. As far as boats go, we got a used I/O (i know, how terrible, right) for right around 10k. A tower is $799+ so make sure to budget for one of those if you want to, i suggest it. We love the boat. It's got everything we need and we've had a blast behind it all summer. It's an 03' sea ray 182 srx 18.5 ft with a 4.3L mercruiser.

As far as insurancw goes, our boat is paid off which means we had the option for liability insurance. It basically covers injury to us and others as well as any damage we cause to another vessel. It's about $175 per year through progressive. We asked our bank to see who would get us the best rate, progressive was the winner.

Make sure to also budget for paying tax on the boat so you can have the title put in your name. That's an extra $625 or so in our state for a 10k boat. We budgeted ourselves and paid cash, if you can do that, I would suggest it. Hope that helps!
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-07-2012, 8:04 PM Reply   
lets see, 10 years ago i bought a 1988 2001 nautique. for 6 grand. had it for a few years needed a new motor. bought a new motor kept it for a for more years sold it for 7k bought a sport nautique kept sport nautique afew years. sold it. i was done owning for a while. original buyer of the 2001 called and said it wasnt running anymore needed a distributor so i bought it back for 2k and replaced some stuff. so im into the boat for 2500$. paid cash for it, it throws a great wake. i really do enjoy owning it. i ride in some nice boats with some steep monthly payments and am not jealous one bit. i plan on keeping it forever. but if i change my mind i can make 4500$
Old    Ralph (89nauti2001)      Join Date: May 2012       09-07-2012, 9:25 PM Reply   
Yep 2001's are the way to go. I love mine. I have been talking to my local dealer who sells Malibu, axis, & nautique and I plan on getting a new boat this spring..... The 1989 2001 will retire to the garage except for weekday lake duty every once in a while.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-08-2012, 7:01 AM Reply   
The 2001 throws a very nice wake on a budget. The problem with the boat for me is there is NO room. The interior is small and when you start throwing sacs on the floor(there no where else) it gets hard to move front to back. If you have more than 2-3 people in the boat with weight your going to be crawling over fat sacs. Some people are cool with that, my wife has had knee surgery so I am not. We did look at them and they are a SOLID entry level wake boat. I was just really surprised how tight they are inside, but any closed bow will be. The boats are good for a crew of 3...2 in the boat and one behind it. If you need more space than that they may not work for you. But like everyone will tell you, get out and look and see what works for you.

Last edited by boardman74; 09-08-2012 at 7:03 AM. Reason: content
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-08-2012, 7:04 AM Reply   
2001 enough said...You can build boxes to house the sacs on both the sides of the motor and back bench area.




Sure theyre closed bow but Id take it over an open bow i/o any day. (this coming from a guy who was brought up around i/o) unless you have a giant crew of course.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-08-2012, 7:17 AM Reply   



no room? what are yall talking about? haha yeah still blows away any i/o under 20k

Last edited by 882001; 09-08-2012 at 7:20 AM.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-08-2012, 7:30 AM Reply   
i keep a good eye on craigslist. last week there was a nice 1990 sport nautique for 3500$ but had low compression in 1 cylinder. i didnt have time or want to tackle it
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-08-2012, 8:05 AM Reply   
The 1990 sport won't build the same wake a 2001 will though, different hull...
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-08-2012, 8:07 AM Reply   
i agree i owned one. but it didnt suck either
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-08-2012, 9:12 AM Reply   
Good to know. Forget that 'starter' boat doesn't have to be the best wake building machine... Do you have any pics of your old sport wake?
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-08-2012, 9:28 AM Reply   
Is a 1990 sport nautique the same hull as the later sport nautiques? Like the 1995-2000ish? If so it should build a better wake then the 2001 because it is the same hull as the original Air nautique and a very similar if not same hull as the SAN210.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-08-2012, 9:37 AM Reply   
DONT BUY AN I/O. You can pick up an old ski boat, throw some sacks it in, and have a good time. Any of you ride bikes? buying an I/O to wakeboard is like buying a Huffy to ride in the Tour de France.
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       09-08-2012, 9:46 AM Reply   
@polarbill the 90 sport hull changed in 1993 and then i think got more freeboard in 1997.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-08-2012, 9:48 AM Reply   
Well, looked up a pic of the 1990 sport nautique. See that it appears to have a way different hull then mid 90's sport nautique.

I vote the 2001 nautique. I had an 87 and it threw a great wake. For a begineer it should need much weight at all. Maybe 500 pounds or so. If wake isn't as important to you the mastercrafts of that era were better build boats. MAstercraft started using fiberglass stringers and floors in late 83 and nautique didn't quit using wood till 1990. The mastercraft's in the 80's don't throw much of a wakebaord wake but are super solid and the wake is at least clean and consistant. It just isn't that big or steep.

Boats I would consider if 10k is the upper limit:

Closed Bow:
Nautique 2001(82-89)-watch the stringers/floors
Mastercraft prostar 190/stars and stripes(1983(late)-1994)
Hydrodyne Closed bow(not sure the model but it was a 19 or 20 foot closed bow and I think they made it in the late 80's-early/mid 90's)
Supra Marauder-any year. Same hull as the sunsport. REally deep boat that produce a good/great wake with ballast. Watch the stringers/floors. Wood stringers/floor till 92 or 93. Look for round windshield. I think round windshield=fiberglass.
Sanger DXII-mid 80's-about 2000-low profile but has a deeper V so better in rough water and doesn't need a ton of weight.

Open bow:
Nautique sport nautique-not sure years but mid 90's. Same/Similar hull as SAN210. Effecient, amazing wake. MIght be tough to find for 10k.
MAstercraft prostar 205-1992-1995 is more ski friendly but great boat. 1996 and on is the same hull as the OG xstar.
Malibu Sunsetter-Any year. The 1995 and on is the same hull as the early/mid 2000's wakesetter VLX. Pre 1995 not as great a wakeboard wake and has wood floors/stringers. still solid boat and a lot better chance at finding one for 10k or less.
Supra Sunsport-same as marauder but open bow.
Sanger DLX-similar to DXii but slightly bigger and open bow. Same hull as V210. REally effecient, great wake with minimal ballast. Low profile.
Hydrodyne Grand Sport-good build quality, great wake. PRobably hard to find for 10k or less.
MB Boss 210-solid boat probably hard to find for 10k or less
CCenturion air warrior direct drive-solid boat but again hard to find for 10k or less.
Calabria sport comp-good quality boat, lots of room for size, huge rear locker, hard to find for 10k, dips the nose easy(I had one and sold it because of this).
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       09-08-2012, 9:50 AM Reply   
Looks like I was a little bit off. Found this on planet nautique:

Sport Nautique hull:
1st gen = 1989-1992
2nd gen (based on 90-96 Ski Nautique aka No Wake Zone hull) = 1993-1997
3rd gen (based on TSC1 Ski Nautique hull) = 1998-2002
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-08-2012, 10:30 AM Reply   
to tell the truth the floor in the sport didnt look much different full of sacks, life jackets and coolers. and when you throttled back it took water over the back it was funny sometime but sucked at other times. i dont have any pics of the wake, it was ok. i never really cared for that boat. maybe it was the suck yellow color? not sure. i just never really liked it. i was glad to see it go, and happy to go back to the 2001. its little but its fun, drives like a sports car compared to the giant boats of today. i ride in a 230 regularly and dont get me wrong it is awesome. but not needed to just go out and have some fun. you just have to get used to the closeness and laugh it off, it seems a bit hectic sometime but noone seems to mind. we have had 8 people aboard with sacks and its still fun
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-08-2012, 11:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beretta5spd View Post
Looks like I was a little bit off. Found this on planet nautique:

Sport Nautique hull:
1st gen = 1989-1992
2nd gen (based on 90-96 Ski Nautique aka No Wake Zone hull) = 1993-1997
3rd gen (based on TSC1 Ski Nautique hull) = 1998-2002
I am fairly certain the sport Nautique hull/ running surface was the same from 93-06, and is the same as the super sport/SAN210 which ran 95/96-06. Even if it has slightly less freeboard early on-line it isn't that much different, those boats don't need 4k to throw a mackin wake, like 12-2k is all I think most people would need.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-08-2012, 11:55 AM Reply   
Also, the ski Nautique 2001 in 1989 had fiberglass stringers and a 1.23:1 tranny which will allow more prop options I am told. Before that if you want to run 2k+ its advisable to prop down to like a 13x10.5... Which my friend had custom pitched, not sure if that's a mfr option pitch from acme etc
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       09-08-2012, 3:42 PM Reply   
Whoa man 89 nautique 2001 did not have fiberglass stringers. They were wood until 1993. The upgraded tranny (still used today) and single exhaust (bit quieter) were nice upgrades for the 89 model
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-08-2012, 4:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beretta5spd View Post
Whoa man 89 nautique 2001 did not have fiberglass stringers. They were wood until 1993. The upgraded tranny (still used today) and single exhaust (bit quieter) were nice upgrades for the 89 model
Woah man, I stand corrected. My bad, just looked into it. I'm fairly certain I've read here that they were all glass in 89.

I'm still standing strong on my sport/supersport knowledge though.

To the OP, there is a 93 sport on only inboards for 10.5. Includes pole and sacs. That's what I'd buy if I had 10 to spend
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-09-2012, 7:48 AM Reply   
and the one thing i like better about thee 88 is the throaty hot rod dual exhaust note better .
the 13x11 works just fine on the 1:1 tranny
Old    Jody (NewWakeGirl)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-09-2012, 3:27 PM Reply   
Wow! Great, that is a ton of info!! I'm not ready for one yet, b/ I wanted to start getting ideas and things to think and learn about! THANKS!
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-10-2012, 6:12 AM Reply   
Its a shame you're not ready yet...this just showed up here locally. $7k looks clean. One of the best looking towers on this boat (compared to all the monster towers you see around)





http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/3255097733.html
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       09-10-2012, 9:03 AM Reply   
Here is a couple picks from an old thread here on WW. Always thought this was a neat boat. Think it has the monster tower L3. The wake is with 1500lbs in the boat.
Attached Images
  
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-10-2012, 9:51 AM Reply   
I think a lot of people like the 2001; it makes you wonder why Standard Boats wasn't able to make a go of it. I think they went too far away from the original design.
Old    Jim Shawley (nautiboy614)      Join Date: Dec 2010       09-10-2012, 10:07 AM Reply   
I started off with a 2001, ran it 3 years and sold it for what I had in it. (I did do some upgrading in it - Ballast, towers, speakers. ect) Look at the value the 2001 holds, its crazy! its hands down the best choice financially to buy & resell for under 10K
Old    Kevin Kimball (Kjkimball)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-10-2012, 2:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
I think a lot of people like the 2001; it makes you wonder why Standard Boats wasn't able to make a go of it. I think they went too far away from the original design.
I know Phil at Standard Boats. He did sell a few. The problem was really the economy in a couple of ways. Standard's target market was starter or first boat for people fresh out of college with a good paying job. The job market dried up, banks stopped loaning money as easily as they had been and so on. Combine that with the fact that the entire boat industry was WAY DOWN reducing volume and availability of some items while the parts that remained went up in price. The result was a soft market with a boat that was too expensive for some and not fancy enough for others. He still has the molds and will build one to order when there is a call for it. Phil's main company, PSI Composites, is really keeping he and his staff busy producing composite parts for aircraft, small vehicles, and the theme park industry.

Kevin
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-10-2012, 2:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjkimball View Post
I know Phil at Standard Boats. He did sell a few. The problem was really the economy in a couple of ways. Standard's target market was starter or first boat for people fresh out of college with a good paying job. The job market dried up, banks stopped loaning money as easily as they had been and so on. Combine that with the fact that the entire boat industry was WAY DOWN reducing volume and availability of some items while the parts that remained went up in price. The result was a soft market with a boat that was too expensive for some and not fancy enough for others. He still has the molds and will build one to order when there is a call for it. Phil's main company, PSI Composites, is really keeping he and his staff busy producing composite parts for aircraft, small vehicles, and the theme park industry.

Kevin
I think you are right but I think the biggest issue is that there isn't a market for a new 30 grand+ 19' closed bow boat plain and simple. Riders aren't the one's pushing boat sales. Well to do families are. If families are going to stick to a budget they are going to buy a used open bow vdrive for the same price as that standard 9.9 out of 10 times. Really, the market they were going after is so small it basically doesnt' exist.
Old    Jody (NewWakeGirl)      Join Date: Aug 2011       09-10-2012, 3:08 PM Reply   
LR3w8kbrdr you are such a tease! haha That boat for $7K is beautiful!!! I'm a while away from being ready for a purchase, just starting to consider a possibility and learn...they are quite intimidating! hahaha But I'd like to try to learn. And if I have good boats at least in mind, I can start asking more questions and researching and learning. I was also curious if there was such a thing as some kind of repair insurance, like the kind some people get on their houses and if anyone here has actually ever used it!
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-10-2012, 4:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjkimball View Post
I know Phil at Standard Boats. He did sell a few. The problem was really the economy in a couple of ways. Standard's target market was starter or first boat for people fresh out of college with a good paying job. The job market dried up, banks stopped loaning money as easily as they had been and so on. Combine that with the fact that the entire boat industry was WAY DOWN reducing volume and availability of some items while the parts that remained went up in price. The result was a soft market with a boat that was too expensive for some and not fancy enough for others. He still has the molds and will build one to order when there is a call for it. Phil's main company, PSI Composites, is really keeping he and his staff busy producing composite parts for aircraft, small vehicles, and the theme park industry.

Kevin
After multiple attempts to contact them, I finally gave up. I wanted to pull the trigger on one if they could do a stand closed bow up front without the cooler access door. Like I said, I never heard back so I moved on. Good to hear they are staying busy with other industries though.
Old    Bobby (mastercraf)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-10-2012, 6:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjkimball View Post
I know Phil at Standard Boats. He did sell a few. The problem was really the economy in a couple of ways. Standard's target market was starter or first boat for people fresh out of college with a good paying job. The job market dried up, banks stopped loaning money as easily as they had been and so on. Combine that with the fact that the entire boat industry was WAY DOWN reducing volume and availability of some items while the parts that remained went up in price. The result was a soft market with a boat that was too expensive for some and not fancy enough for others. He still has the molds and will build one to order when there is a call for it. Phil's main company, PSI Composites, is really keeping he and his staff busy producing composite parts for aircraft, small vehicles, and the theme park industry.

Kevin

You should suggest that they make a V drive with the mold....I know I would be all over that!
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-10-2012, 6:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastercraf View Post
You should suggest that they make a V drive with the mold....I know I would be all over that!
Really? If it cost 30 for a new material old 2001, I'd rather pay 20 for a 12 yr old SAN210, and you also know the san or old 2001 won't depreciate. You buy one of his boats for 30, good luck selling it for 15...
Old    Boarder 42 (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       09-10-2012, 6:54 PM Reply   
Hydrodyne Grandsport. Landed mine last Feb. for 8750 best decision i ever made. But like an earlier post said, "hard to find under 10k" Be patient, its good you're not ready yet when the one pops up just hope you're ready. Just get a list of those good 10k boats going and keep looking till one pops up. I had to have an open bow to please the soon to be wife so the Ski nautique was out of the question.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-10-2012, 7:00 PM Reply   
What year Jess?
Old    Boarder 42 (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       09-10-2012, 7:06 PM Reply   
1995 with tower and brand new board racks 555 hours. Wake is a little touchy with the weight but its not hard to get even with some lead bags or just moving people. More than enough wake for a beginner/intermediate like myself and friends. I'm with you on the SAN210. That will be my upgrade when the time comes and the money is right.

Last edited by jhartt3; 09-10-2012 at 7:08 PM.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-10-2012, 7:21 PM Reply   
The hydrodyne GS I've seen look a lot like sport Nautiques, I wonder if the running surface is similar or the same... Run the GT40 engine too...
Old    Boarder 42 (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       09-10-2012, 7:30 PM Reply   
Yep they have the GT40 and i can post pics of the wake after this weekend. GT40 is great. Didnt know much about them until i saw the one i bought advertised under malibu sunsetters on Onlyinboards. Started doing research and couldnt find one person out there with something bad to say about them. For a budget wake boat it produces and above budget wake. Has a really high free board too. Probably gonna put PP on it this winter and prop from a 3 to a 4 blade b/c i'll be running ballast next year now that i finally mastered this whole "pop" thing people keep talking bout. And by mastered i mean i can do it a little, every once in a while

Sidenote: These are hands down the best threads for people looking to get into owning their first inboard. I can't tell you how many of these threads i went through trying to find the best boat to get in the 10k range. All were helpful in their own way. It would be great if Dave would throw one of the better ones up in a "New to Boarding" page or something of the like. Throw in some of the other good threads about board sizing, rope length, NO POWER TURNS/ how to drive, etc. ya'll get the idea.
Old    Bobby (mastercraf)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-10-2012, 7:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
Really? If it cost 30 for a new material old 2001, I'd rather pay 20 for a 12 yr old SAN210, and you also know the san or old 2001 won't depreciate. You buy one of his boats for 30, good luck selling it for 15...
If everyone only looked at resale value of their boat when purchasing new, or any product for that matter, no one would benefit from buying new. You could say the same exact thing about someone buying a brand new boat of any brand. The old 2001 have wood stringers...negative. The SAN210 is a nice boat but it's been used, and possibly abused for 12 years, and will also need much more maintenance than a new boat (and you don't get a warranty).

Personally, I would like to have a budget friendly new boat with a new engine and new trans and new trailer that will hold up for a while. Resale value wasn't the basis of my comment.

Axis has started off the trend with a "budget friendly boat" why not go further. Gut every creature comfort and deliver with a V-drive, proven hull, basic interior, and allow for the addition of options? Whose to say it has to cost 30K?
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-10-2012, 7:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastercraf View Post
If everyone only looked at resale value of their boat when purchasing new, or any product for that matter, no one would benefit from buying new. You could say the same exact thing about someone buying a brand new boat of any brand. The old 2001 have wood stringers...negative. The SAN210 is a nice boat but it's been used, and possibly abused for 12 years, and will also need much more maintenance than a new boat (and you don't get a warranty).

Personally, I would like to have a budget friendly new boat with a new engine and new trans and new trailer that will hold up for a while. Resale value wasn't the basis of my comment.

Axis has started off the trend with a "budget friendly boat" why not go further. Gut every creature comfort and deliver with a V-drive, proven hull, basic interior, and allow for the addition of options? Whose to say it has to cost 30K?
Warranty and not having to worry about abuse from a prior owner led me to my X1, but left over boats don't grow on trees. I just got tired of driving hours to meet owners that may or may not be honest about the condition and care of their boat. The last straw was getting a loan, insurance, and everything ready to buy a used Sante 210 (the lime green one that showed up on here a few months back), only to have the owner sell to someone else a day before I planned to pick it up.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-10-2012, 8:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastercraf View Post
If everyone only looked at resale value of their boat when purchasing new, or any product for that matter, no one would benefit from buying new. You could say the same exact thing about someone buying a brand new boat of any brand. The old 2001 have wood stringers...negative. The SAN210 is a nice boat but it's been used, and possibly abused for 12 years, and will also need much more maintenance than a new boat (and you don't get a warranty).

Personally, I would like to have a budget friendly new boat with a new engine and new trans and new trailer that will hold up for a while. Resale value wasn't the basis of my comment.

Axis has started off the trend with a "budget friendly boat" why not go further. Gut every creature comfort and deliver with a V-drive, proven hull, basic interior, and allow for the addition of options? Whose to say it has to cost 30K?
I'm going off the number up above. How much profit margin do you think is in a boat that size, even if it did cost 30. You aren't building a boat like that for 15 and selling for 20 thinking you'll get a warranty... Sorry, if there was a market they would've sold. There's no blaming banks... It was discussed probably 6 years ago when the X1 came out how there isn't profit in small boat building.

I say wood scmood, when's the last time you heard about a 2001 breaking in half on a double up?
Old    Bobby (mastercraf)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-10-2012, 8:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
I'm going off the number up above. How much profit margin do you think is in a boat that size, even if it did cost 30. You aren't building a boat like that for 15 and selling for 20 thinking you'll get a warranty... Sorry, if there was a market they would've sold. There's no blaming banks... It was discussed probably 6 years ago when the X1 came out how there isn't profit in small boat building.

I say wood scmood, when's the last time you heard about a 2001 breaking in half on a double up?
No profit on small boat building? The original X-Star, then X-2, and then X-1 didn't make a profit. They just discontinued the model.
Idk how much a new X1 cost, but that doesn't really hold any water in this conversation. Your talking apples vs. oranges. You couldn't come close to even a year old MC for 30K. No matter what model.
Who else makes a new, wake specific boat, for under 40K even? There is a definite market. I bet if the same hull came back on the market, the resale value of your 2001 would decrease substantially, knowing now you could get the same proven wake hull with brand new equipment (and a possible warranty).
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-10-2012, 9:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastercraf View Post
No profit on small boat building? The original X-Star, then X-2, and then X-1 didn't make a profit. They just discontinued the model.
Anything to back this up? No offense, but I find it hard to believe a boat that was produced from 1999-2011 didn't make a profit. Any company that would produce a product for 12 years that was unprofitable would be highly suspect...
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-11-2012, 6:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Anything to back this up? No offense, but I find it hard to believe a boat that was produced from 1999-2011 didn't make a profit. Any company that would produce a product for 12 years that was unprofitable would be highly suspect...
I'm quoting others from years before... Back then a 45k wake boat was expensive. When oil sky rocketed, prices went way up and I think I remember someone quoting that the numbers to build a 22ft boat and being able to charge 60, instead of trying to build the old 20ft boat that people were unwilling to pay 40 for... that's what drove the market. Not only that but with volume pricing on materials, to build a 22 over a 20 ft boat wasn't that much more money.

If the X1 was still profitable and so wildly popular then why was it discontinued? Too much pressure from the used market is one reason. I'm not making this stuff up, there were threads and threads about it when boats were going from 50 to 60 to 70 in rapid succession... Mfrs began targeting different markets. Sad? Sure, but core riders that appreciate a small boat like the X1, SAN210 aren't the people that make the mfrs money. And as said, it isn't wildly different costs to build a smaller boat over larger.

RE: driving price of the 2001 down, doubt that. You aren't selling a new 2001, you are selling someone's copy/rendition of a 2001. 2001s went up in price 10 years ago, they've since dropped a little but I'd say pricing and demand is pretty flat for that boat.
Old    Keith Emerson (kme3113)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-11-2012, 11:23 AM Reply   
I am still amazed at how the prices are for boats now! I mean you could get a cruiser with ac and beds for the price of a new xstar or g23
Old    Pete (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-11-2012, 11:38 AM Reply   
I got a 2001 Tige 20i with 433 hours I would sell for 13,000.... i know its not under 10k but its close... email me at petrey10@hotmail.com
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-11-2012, 11:51 AM Reply   
Nice pic Mark! Haha...that's me behind that 2001 in your post. Great boat and a great wake when weighted properly.
Old    Bobby (mastercraf)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-11-2012, 2:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
I'm quoting others from years before... Back then a 45k wake boat was expensive. When oil sky rocketed, prices went way up and I think I remember someone quoting that the numbers to build a 22ft boat and being able to charge 60, instead of trying to build the old 20ft boat that people were unwilling to pay 40 for... that's what drove the market. Not only that but with volume pricing on materials, to build a 22 over a 20 ft boat wasn't that much more money.

If the X1 was still profitable and so wildly popular then why was it discontinued? Too much pressure from the used market is one reason. I'm not making this stuff up, there were threads and threads about it when boats were going from 50 to 60 to 70 in rapid succession... Mfrs began targeting different markets. Sad? Sure, but core riders that appreciate a small boat like the X1, SAN210 aren't the people that make the mfrs money. And as said, it isn't wildly different costs to build a smaller boat over larger.

RE: driving price of the 2001 down, doubt that. You aren't selling a new 2001, you are selling someone's copy/rendition of a 2001. 2001s went up in price 10 years ago, they've since dropped a little but I'd say pricing and demand is pretty flat for that boat.

Let me give you a two great analogies that would prove why the boat was discontinued.

The Iphone. The first generation was popular, then the second generation came out. Apple sold off the inventory of the 1st Gen. at a discounted price, and then stopped production. They did the same thing in succession with the 3GS, 4, 4GS and soon to be 5.

BMW M3. They make a new model every few years if not changes every year. There is still a substantial used market, but they haven't stop making the M3 just because the market was flooded with used M3's. But they did make a brand new M3 with a larger engine, better handling, redone exterior and interior...blah blah blah.

Consumer demand for new products has a relatively small correlation to the used market. Even when it comes to boats. Mastercraft is essentially no differen't. The X1 was actually the first XStar. They then had a 2nd Gen XStar, and now a 3rd Gen XStar. They discontinued the boat because it was no longer in line with the changes they had made to their new flagship boat. I'm actually surprised they didn't keep the 2nd Gen XStar hull in their lineup somewhere like they did with the original X2 and then X1. The X1 WAS widly popular and profitable, but just like the other two examples-everyone wants the newest best product. Why would they now keep a 3 generation old design in their lineup and market it as a new product. When as you say people could just buy it for cheaper anyways used?

I gaurantee those "core riders" you refer to would love to have the biggest and best thing anyways, and I bet a lot of them do upgrade to these newer models. Those people you are refereing to as "core riders" are those who want a quality wake boat for the walet-pleasing price. Hence why they are looking at 210's, 2001, older XStars, and VLX's etc. It's never sad to see a company push innovation, but it's also never sad to see a company bring out a quality price concious product for the everyday consumer. Actually I can refer back to my point before with BMW. They did this when the introduced the 1 series. It was a "budget friendly" BMW. It actually ended up being quicker that older M3's.

Or look at what toyota did with Scion. Or what malibu did with Axis.

Pricing and demand would stay stagent when there isn't a new comparible product on the market. But if a new product is introduced...similar to the old, but better and newer. I gaurantee demand for the old would drop significantly. (iphone, ipod, old model cars, etc.) In turn this would affect the price point. Supply would increase, demand would decrease with more product to flood the "2001 like boat market."

I would actually like to find a correlation of something like demand for the older camaro and the price point when the new camaro hit the market.....could likely would prove my point even futher.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-11-2012, 6:51 PM Reply   
LR3, those boxes are nice! I had a 99 malibu response w/wedge I would put up against ANY of these starter boats, I sold it for $11, 500. I could surf behind the response and took out a slalom skier out once, he didn't like it, probably because it was weighted down so much! The hull is very similar to the VLX, just not as big, and it has electronic fuel injection, when did the nautiques start putting EFI in their boats? I doubt the 2001 has fuel injection.
Todd, completely understand about the wife and direct drive, my wife Loves to go out on the 05 VLX, I like it because I can surf behind it, but I would not mind riding behind a 02-4 VLX, resonse or sport w/wedge, 2001, any year tiga, so send me a pm if you want to trade pulls.
I really like riding in florida and it would cost over 1k to haul my boat back and forth from Ohio each year so I am thinking about buying one of these "starter boats" keep it down in florida and then drive back and forth in my 50 mpg vehicle which would save thousands of dollars.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-11-2012, 7:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeshmoe View Post
LR3, those boxes are nice! I had a 99 malibu response w/wedge I would put up against ANY of these starter boats, I sold it for $11, 500. I could surf behind the response and took out a slalom skier out once, he didn't like it, probably because it was weighted down so much! The hull is very similar to the VLX, just not as big, and it has electronic fuel injection, when did the nautiques start putting EFI in their boats? I doubt the 2001 has fuel injection.
Todd, completely understand about the wife and direct drive, my wife Loves to go out on the 05 VLX, I like it because I can surf behind it, but I would not mind riding behind a 02-4 VLX, resonse or sport w/wedge, 2001, any year tiga, so send me a pm if you want to trade pulls.
I really like riding in florida and it would cost over 1k to haul my boat back and forth from Ohio each year so I am thinking about buying one of these "starter boats" keep it down in florida and then drive back and forth in my 50 mpg vehicle which would save thousands of dollars.
whili have ridden alot of the old malibus. i like them. but the response has very little freeboard 1000-1500 lbs makes it submarine like. but they do have a nice wake, now a sunsetter on the other hand is a boat you can weight get alot of people on board and have some fun
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-11-2012, 7:49 PM Reply   
Joeshmoe...what part of FL?

And if anyone is wanted the full diagram of aftermarket plumbing specific for a 2001 and its layout I have lots of photos & diagrams I can dig up that I came across during my researching.
Old    Mark (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       09-12-2012, 6:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by eubanks01 View Post
Nice pic Mark! Haha...that's me behind that 2001 in your post. Great boat and a great wake when weighted properly.

Kinda figured someone might recognize Jerram's boat. Does he still have it?

Don't really know him but I miss his video work around DFW.
Old    Gerrad Bagent (GRad)      Join Date: Apr 2012       09-13-2012, 5:15 AM Reply   
Anyone know if there's a difference between the 80s 2001 hull and say a 77 model? Looking to pick up a 2001 or if possible 90s model nautique (not as good of wake but no wood and more room for family) but a 77 just popped up on Craigslist for practically nothing. Could be a fun wakeboard only project.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-13-2012, 5:23 AM Reply   
not the same. super small curb like wake
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-13-2012, 9:12 PM Reply   
LR3, when I go to FL, I take my jet ski because I would not put my boat into salt water and it doesn't cost much extra to haul, I have been near Panama Beach(St.Andrew Bay), St Augustine, Palm Island, and West Palm Beach(70water/75air on Christmas day), mostly on the inter coastal waterway, all the places had flat water! I am sure that there are many more places in Fl, I am not set on one area, but I am thinking Tampa area or Orlando because I like to surf and there are flowriding machines in both those cities.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-14-2012, 5:20 AM Reply   
Lately I have been pointing people to 1993 and newer Sport Nautiques as starter boats, OVER the 2001. The 2001 is too easy to outgrow. Don't get me wrong, it is still one of the best hulls ever made for wakeboarding, but the Sport Nautique shares many of the same features and produces a better wake, open bow, more storage, belly locker, updated guts. Just better. Sport Nautiques can be had, if you're careful, for less than 10,000. Most of the ones under that threshold are 1989-1992's which still had wood stringers. From 1993 on it is all composites/fiberglass. Very, VERY good option for a starter boat. Spending a little bit more to get a Sport Nautique is well worth it in my opinion, especially if you're going to weight it like crazy (and you should).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
I am fairly certain the sport Nautique hull/ running surface was the same from 93-06, and is the same as the super sport/SAN210 which ran 95/96-06.
It is not completely identical, but for all intents and purposes it's close enough (in 1997 I do think the Sport hull changed but not much). Sport/Super Sport hulls - super similar, and that's why the Sport option is the best option right now because of that 10k threshold that I believe is so important, and good for the sport, and good for new people. You can get an amazing wake out of a Sport Nautique and obviously the Super Sport.

Last edited by juniorhawk; 09-14-2012 at 5:26 AM.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       09-14-2012, 6:16 AM Reply   
Not sure where you're located at, but this boat has been for sale for a little while now, they might meet you half-way to 10k.

http://whitelake.com/detail.asp?id=314

It's got a tower, racks, speakers and some ballast. Can't ask for more than that from a starter boat
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-14-2012, 7:08 AM Reply   
That Sport is sweet. I typically don't see reasonable prices listed on WhiteLake but even at that price that is acceptable in my opinion. Probably a consignment boat from a reasonable seller. I am sure it can come down a little bit, but I wouldn't take much less than that if I were the seller. Much less than that and it's an act of cruelty for what appears to be a well-treated Sport Nautique. Beautiful. Someone grab it. It was not long ago that the Sport Nautique was the most coveted boat available. Nelson, Byerly, Harris - all had Sport Nautiques. I am going to be looking for one this Spring.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-14-2012, 10:54 AM Reply   
x2 for that sport nautique
Old    Rich (theloungelife)      Join Date: Jun 2012       09-24-2012, 5:04 PM Reply   
I like this thread, so I am bringing it back.

I am in a similar position to the OP. Right now I am between going after a 2001 (thinking it will be around 6-8k) or spending the extra 4-5k and getting a mid 90s Nautique Sport or Sunsetter LX. I've seen some great deals lately on all 3 models. Is it worth the jump to the sunsetter or sport?

The boat I am most familiar with is 1997 Tige 2100i (my parents boat), but now I live across the country from it. Overall, I am hoping for a better riding wake than the Tige. The Tige actually had a pretty sick surf wave, but the riding wake left a lot to be desired. I would say use would be 80% riding, 20% surf. This won't be a family boat, so I don't think space will be a huge issue.

I keep leaning toward the 2001, as I've seen some pretty decent riding vids behind them and it is the cheapest. Have many of you owned a 2001, then upgraded to a Sunsetter lx or a Nautique Sport and thought it was the best decision ever? I saw 882001 actually went back to a 2001.

This is inspiring for the 2001 too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOrM4_u_gR8 (1st half)

Hmm
Old    Jamie Corvin (Bumpass1)      Join Date: Oct 2010       09-24-2012, 5:29 PM Reply   
Just come ride with us. I know Tammy has been asking you.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-24-2012, 5:47 PM Reply   
To me family and 2001 just don't fit in the same sentence, quite literally. To get the wake out of them you need weight. Weight in a 2001 means fat sacs everywhere on the floor. To me with kids and a wife that is just not going to work. The sport or sunsetter are going to provide way more room. To me it would be a no brainer. I have a similar boat to a sport or the sunsetter in a 1997 Pro Am skier open bow. We are upgrading because thats not enough room for 2 adults and 3 kids by the time the cable goes down for the extended pylon and you start filling sacs and we ride from a cabin without boards or coolers in the boat.
Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       09-24-2012, 6:15 PM Reply   
i dont know what sport yall have been in, but the cockpit behind the windshield is very close to the same size. and require the same sacks in the same places
Old    Rich (theloungelife)      Join Date: Jun 2012       09-24-2012, 6:53 PM Reply   
If there was no need for family room and the boat was strictly 3-5 adults, is there any major reason to spend the extra cash on the sport or sunsetter? Even though we're talking 4-5k for the newer boats, % wise it is a major leap from the 2001.

I'm also thinking I can afford the 2001 straight up vs I would need a family loan for the sport or sunsetter.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       09-24-2012, 6:57 PM Reply   
The open bow would really help but yeah other than that they're not much different in size.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-24-2012, 7:20 PM Reply   
Yup, open bow would mean a bigger bow sac which in turn could run more stern weight. More room for more ballast.

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