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Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-25-2012, 9:00 AM Reply   
The incumbent candidate has had 4 years to make things better.Do you think more people have jobs now? Do you think the national debt is lower now? Do you think gas costs the same or less than it did when he took office? What has he done to create private sector jobs? We know he has created thousands of government jobs(taxpayer funded jobs)! He has burdened the middle class even more. He also has burdened the small mom and pop businesses with his mandatory health care. Make everyone read and write English to get a job or get SS or medical assistance then the government won't need all their money. Please don't come back with they deserve it BS. Because you step over homeless Americans ,many of them past veterans ,to brag about how we need to help everyone.The secret to the recovery is less government ,not more.The middle class has been stepped on since the beginning.The only thing that will change if the incumbent is re-elected is the middle class will be slaves to the government. The signs are there if you just open you eyes and use common sense instead of that college education you paid so much for.
Old    Scott (magicr)      Join Date: May 2004       08-25-2012, 9:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Ask yourself if the candidate has changed his stance on issues? If so then that candidate has no backbone and is not a candidate that keeps his promises.
I'm confused you just described Romney to a Tee with this statement.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-25-2012, 10:49 AM Reply   
How can that describe Romney, he has never been president before. I like your 10% rant. Hate to tell you this but about everyone on this website is pretty close to qualifying for the top 10%. It is not class warfare in the least. You can not build from the middle class out. That is a noble idea and I agree that the middle class is the engine for the country but how can you do that? Middle class does not own meg businesses. They are the average consumer. Only two ways I know you can have a middle class. Government jobs or you have mega businesses that middle class people can either be hired to participate in or they create their own business to support the mega businesses and their employees. At the end of the day the only way the middle class get supported is from outside money moving into their area and providing jobs. If you do it the government way it does not work for long because the government gets it's money from either printing it which devalues the money or from the tax payers which is usually the middle class. You can not get enough money to run something if you are pulling a smaller percentage of money from the people you just gave it to than you are need to give them in the first place. So, with that in mind I think you have to build it based on business with the government middle class as a smaller subset. You need the business to attract money from outside sales. When you are talking outside sales on the country size, you are talking international trade. You can not get international trade from small middle class owned businesses. That has to come from your big corporations. Like it or not, that is the way it works. You can play class warfare third grade stuff as much as you want it will not change how money works. So, if you really want to fix the middle class, you need to start understanding this and stop supporting presidents and congress critters who want to share the wealth to foreign countries and get some policy people in who are for America and not the UN.

Wes, Kerry lost the catholic vote? Wow, he must have really sucked.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-25-2012, 11:00 AM Reply   
Wes, I don't know enough about said policy you and the progressives are all up in arms about. I suppose that the term forceable and maybe even the term legitimate rape are more than likely legal speak when crafting legislation. If people were to actually read laws and even procedures for dealing with emergencies, the terminology is usually quite offensive when one reads them because the legal speak is very impersonal. I don't care one way or the other on this. It is just political BS that has nothing to do with anything.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-25-2012, 11:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
No candidate is perfect. They are all human. Ask yourself if the candidate is a man of his word? Ask yourself if the candidate has changed his stance on issues? If so then that candidate has no backbone and is not a candidate that keeps his promises. I prefer a business man who was successful as opposed to a lawyer who told you what you wanted to hear. Then took you money. After that he didn't tell you he was going to spend it on a new car. When you went to jail he said I'm sorry but it's someone else's fault,I did the best I could. Do you want a candidate that was able to run a business successfully? Or do you prefer the slick talking lawyer who's just after your money and doesn't care whether or not you have a job or a future? These are questions you should ask yourself.Are we better off now than in 2008? Are you living in a government dependent world? Or are you independent,like our forefathers intended you to be? These are things you should think about before you vote.
Ryan is now taking Romney's stance on several issues. I sure don't feel I am more dependent on the govt anymore so than in 2008. Didn't you just buy a new boat last year? Doesn't sound like things got worse for you. The wealthiest people in America got more wealthy during Obama's first term, so that sounds like their doing better. Was Ryan a businessman before he became a politician?

Delta. Still waiting on if you knew Ryan is a Catholic?
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-25-2012, 3:48 PM Reply   
Rod, at least we can agree on Kerry.

Like Joe I had voted Repub more often than Dem. Abstained in 2000 and held my nose and voted for Kerry in 04 (as if it mattered in CA). As part of the 1% I suppose I am voting against my own economic self interest this November - but I can afford to. What I can't understand is how so many of the working poor in this country can continue to do so.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-25-2012, 5:25 PM Reply   
Jeremy,

No I did not know that but that does not change he fact that catholics historically vote democrat. Aren't you catholic? You pulling the "R" this election?

Wes,

The people of middle America are not voting against their best interest. They understand what the democrats have been trying to do for decades. They are trying to share their wealth overseas. You see, when you don't have money,you tend to understand money. You have to make every dollar work for you and every dollar is valuable. They also don't tend to be selfish. A line I hear from nearly every democrat I run across is "how can you vote against your best interest?". That is a selfish point of view but the funny think is the poor democrats are voting against their best interests unless they are only for pure handouts. The democrats have pursued moving American jobs to the third world for some time. Middle America is not into class warfare, they are into truth and that truth is our governments policy of moving the jobs and trying to turn our liberty over to the UN. Again, the joke is on the class warfare democrats in that the richest people in the world tend to be democrats. I have to find it but the of the richest people in congress, 70% of the top group are democrats. The world changed and the people are still parroting lines from 1955 politics but when you look at the facts, all the poor areas of the country are republican and the rich areas are democrats. Look at that map of Illinois that was posted. The farmers all used to be solid democrats back in the day, now they are moving republican.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-25-2012, 5:42 PM Reply   
Jeremy,

Wealthy people got their more money from well, wealth. That does not comwile so much from income from a job as much as investments. That will always be the case. At the end of the day there will always be wealthy people. SO WHAT. I will never ever be wealthy but it will never bother me because I don't live my life worried about who has what. What I care about is opportunity and I do have that. Could I have worked harder for things? Sure. Could I have made better choices in life? Sure. Only thing bothers me about a rich person is if they use their wealth to squash my opportunity other than that I am happy. Right now though we continually elect people who are using power to squash the middle class. You have the same group on one side who are siding with illegal aliens who are used to squash our middle class by limiting opportunities to make more money and squashing the middle class by making them pick up the bill for their education, prisons, and everything else. Kalifornia has at least a 15 to 20 billion dollar a year problem paying for illegals so what does the government do? They passed cap and trade in the state to pull billions off the power companies to give free money to wealthy land holders and to not have to really deal with the illegal problem. Again the republican middle class in the state is left with the bill. The power companies are estimated going to have to raise my gas and electric bill up around $3000 a year as the program takes hold. They government will just call the power companies evil, but anyone with a brain knows damn well how money works and that is the way it works. They raised a tax without looking like the bad guys. They do not have to go after illegals so they look like a hero and keep loyal voters as the illegal kids grow up. The rich areas by the cities can deal with it since they are the 1%ers and they stay in power. The middle class (republicans) like me are left holding the bag.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-26-2012, 10:43 AM Reply   
While I know the Republican leadership is far from perfect and something should be done about health care, this “Let’s pass it to see what’s in it” attitude is not good either. Someone will have to pay for this new entitlement and, IMHO, may even have a negative effect on hiring for a long time while lessening the access to health care and providers for the middle class, in addition to the poor. The Democrats only seem to focus on social issues to get reelected. For example, I don’t agree with all of the Ryan and Romney budget and energy independence policies, but at least their focus, especially for energy independence, doesn’t depend on the creation of a new infrastructure. and they have one.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-30-2012, 11:45 AM Reply   
even Fox News is ripping Ryan for blatantly lying throughout his big speech:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...n-three-words/
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       08-30-2012, 2:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
even Fox News is ripping Ryan for blatantly lying throughout his big speech:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...n-three-words/
First, the article was an opinion piece and was not fact checked:

Quote:
Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling.
The credit rating was downgraded as a result of having no plan to reduce the debt. FACT - The republicans have submitted several budgets that would reduce the budget; both Paul Ryan and Rand Paul's reduce the budget. The credit rating was reduced due to inaction.

Quote:
Fact: While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, the plant was actually closed under President George W. Bush. Ryan actually asked for federal spending to save the plant, while Romney has criticized the auto industry bailout that President Obama ultimately enacted to prevent other plants from closing.
The plant actually had a round of lay-offs under Bush; however, it did not close. It did close under Obama though, even after the stimulus. Obama actually gave a speech at the planting stating that he would save it.

Quote:
Fact: Though Ryan insisted that President Obama wants to give all the credit for private sector success to government, that isn't what the president said. Period.
I created an entire thread on this... read it. Obama does believe that the government is responsible for the private sector's success, it is stated and supported throughout his speeches and books.

Quote:
Fact: Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan
This is part of his proposal to actually save Medicare. He makes up for the cuts elsewhere in his plan and pays for it. Under the Ryan Plan Medicare is solvent, under the Obama Plan medicare is not.

This is our main problem, people fail to actually do the research for themselves and instead rely on an opinion piece that some failed to fact check. It was intentionally written in a misleading manner. Then we have someone quoting that article like it is fact. I would suggest that you actually pay attention, research your information, and not be the tool of people trying to mislead others.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-30-2012, 3:10 PM Reply   
Sounds like Fox is being fair and balanced for once!
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-30-2012, 3:28 PM Reply   
Tucker, you're the one parroting ridiculous statements, especially when it comes to the plant.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...e-took-office/
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-30-2012, 3:58 PM Reply   
I don't know who is accurate about the GM plant. The guys on CNN last night mentioned it as yall state, but one guy disputed it much the way that Tucker has. In reality, you could dig deeper into the GM fiasco and find several dealerships and hundreds or thousands of jobs lost because of Obama cronyism. That is an Obama thing.

So to not blame Obama for one GM failure is kinda funny
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       08-30-2012, 3:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Tucker, you're the one parroting ridiculous statements, especially when it comes to the plant.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...e-took-office/
Read it baby.. .read it...

Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-30-2012, 4:15 PM Reply   
"twitchy.com" talking about "Ryan's powerful speech" - is that the best you can do? Lol. This is a really dumb issue to hang your hat on, Tucker. It is quite clear that Obama did not promise anything regarding this plant, but then again you've made it clear in the other thread that you have no regard for context.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-30-2012, 4:17 PM Reply   
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1836139.html

Here's what Romney and crew think about your precious fact-checking lol:

TAMPA -- Mitt Romney's campaign said on Tuesday that its ads attacking President Obama's waiver policy on welfare have been its most effective to date. And while the spots have been roundly criticized as lacking any factual basis, the campaign said it didn't really care.

"We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers," Romney pollster Neil Newhouse said at a panel organized by ABC News.
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       08-30-2012, 4:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
"twitchy.com" talking about "Ryan's powerful speech" - is that the best you can do? Lol. This is a really dumb issue to hang your hat on, Tucker. It is quite clear that Obama did not promise anything regarding this plant, but then again you've made it clear in the other thread that you have no regard for context.
If you read the link within the twitchy website you would have noted that the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel stated as I previously said, the plant was not completely closed, but on standby status.

If you want to argue, I can argue with you all day and win. Ryan did not say what Obama did about the plant though... Obama said, “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another 100 years.”

The government was there to support them, and the plant did close. I guess that you could argue that in 100 years the plant will still be there... collecting dust.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-30-2012, 4:37 PM Reply   
I think you are perfectly capable of reading your own quote... The first two words you quoted are "I believe" - what do those words mean? If you're too stupid to understand that, maybe you can at least be honest about the fact that 1,200 of the workers were laid off at Christmas 2008 - which even your brain pretzelling can't change to be anything other than a month before Obama was even sworn into office. The 1,200 represented 93% of the plants workers, and another 100 were let go the following Thursday - also well before Obama took office. The press release at the time clearly stated that the remaining 40-50 staff were being retained just long enough to spin down operations.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-30-2012, 6:09 PM Reply   
^Tucker is incapable of admitting when he is wrong. He results to childish behavior, as in him posting the Parrot photo, and David W. has scolded him for his immaturity. Or, which I'm sure we will see in due time, he results to calling me "fanboy". Maybe he'll just change the subject as he tends to do with me more often than not. A few months ago, he was Romney's biggest critic; last spring, during the GOP primaries, he even posted that "he would vote for Obama should Romney get the nomination", though he will never admit it (and frankly, I don't give a sheet enough to search and find the thread he posted it in). Now, he has probably littered his yard with Romney campaign signs. He has bought hook, line, and sinker the GOP rhetoric that everything bad in this country is Obama's fault, everything good is compliments of the Republican party. Guys like him are the reason Romney will lose the election, because eventually they can't quit covering all of the lies spun by the party. And when you back them into a corner, again, you get the intelligent Parrot photo or Pink Bunnies posted as if they are a 12-year-olds. And as you have seen, his sources are tweets or conservative blogs.

There is a reason Chris Christie was giving a speech on the first night of the RNC and not accepting the VP nomination.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       08-31-2012, 9:39 AM Reply   
I don't know whether tucker ever said he wouldn't vote for romney, but his friend samingram did: http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791497
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-31-2012, 12:32 PM Reply   
I was pleased with the RNC. I think Romney came across the way that he needed to. I am apparently not alone. The Rasmussen Poll has Romney up by 1 and the PPP poll has him up by 12.
Having said that, there are several polls that still have Obama up, but the margins are closer.
And
I'm sure that after the DNC, things will change again
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-31-2012, 12:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
I don't know whether tucker ever said he wouldn't vote for romney, but his friend samingram did: http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791497
It's the same person, but it's not the thread to which I was referring.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-31-2012, 3:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^Tucker is incapable of admitting when he is wrong. He results to childish behavior, as in him posting the Parrot photo, and David W. has scolded him for his immaturity.
Amazing how you are blind to who (BigD) actually started all that cr@p.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-31-2012, 6:06 PM Reply   
^Yeah, maybe so, but it still doesn't excuse Tucker's behavior.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-31-2012, 7:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^Yeah, maybe so, but it still doesn't excuse Tucker's behavior.
I agree, but pictures of bunnies don't shut down servers and suck up the bandwidth like 20 streaming videos all starting at once. The one video was aggravating enough.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-31-2012, 8:37 PM Reply   
"Tucker is incapable of admitting when he is wrong"
tuckers admits he is wrong when he starts his name calling, at least he won't be posting any more videos that automatically start when you open the thread.
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       08-31-2012, 10:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^Yeah, maybe so, but it still doesn't excuse Tucker's behavior.
Dude,
Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones... You self-righteous...
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-01-2012, 6:11 AM Reply   
"Amazing how you are blind to who (BigD) actually started all that cr@p."

Don't drag me into this one...
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-01-2012, 6:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker_McElroy View Post
Dude,
Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones... You self-righteous...
I don't consider disagreements "childish behavior" , but when you feel the need to post 20 pink bunnies or call someone "fan boy" because you have no intelligent retort, well...let's just say I'm calling a spade a spade.
Old    Tucker McElroy (Tucker_McElroy)      Join Date: Mar 2012       09-05-2012, 11:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I don't consider disagreements "childish behavior" , but when you feel the need to post 20 pink bunnies or call someone "fan boy" because you have no intelligent retort, well...let's just say I'm calling a spade a spade.
The pink bunnies were my attempt to get the thread to go to the next page, eliminating BigD's reposting of the video that started automatically.

Wake77,
It appears that you took offense to my response to your post about Ryan telling lies... now lets look at the Democrats at the DNC and good old fact checker:

1) During the keynote address, San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro claimed that Romney would raise taxes on the middle class — something the candidate has pledged not to do. There’s no real evidence at this point that this statement holds any validity.

2) Romney’s personal taxes, too, were on the docket. During his speech, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said, “We learned that he [Mitt Romney] pays a lower tax rate than middle-class families.” The Fact Checker notes that this comment — or a variation of it, rather — once earned the Obama campaign Three Pinocchios. WaPo explains:

Romney certainly made a lot of money in 2010 — $21.7 million, according to his tax return — and yet his tax rate was about 13.9 percent. As we have noted before, he achieves this rate because much of his income is treated as capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at a preferential rate of 15 percent, and because he donates about 14 percent of his income to charity.

3) Jobs, too, were on the agenda. Castro said that there have been 4.5 million “new jobs” under president Obama’s watch. This, too, is not the complete truth. The economy, as FactCheck.org highlights, recovered 4 million jobs (of the 4.3 million lost) since the president took office.

4) As far as the economic health of Massachusetts goes, one speaker, a Democratic governor, charged that Romney ”left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth.” In reality, the state, moved from 50th in job creation during the governor‘s first year at the helm to 28th when it came to Romney’s final year (47th was the average when all years were considered throughout his term).

5) FactCheck.org also reports that equal pay advocates misrepresented the numbers surrounding the disparity between men and women in the workforce. While their insinuation that women make 77 cents for every dollar earned by men is true, this is an overall average. When it comes to women and men doing the same work, the gap is much smaller. Also, the disparity may not be attributable to job discrimination (or it may have a minimal impact).

A fascinating addition at the end of The Fact Checker’s analysis is a charge that the Democratic Party is being dishonest about its history on race and civil rights. On the party’s web site, a historical analysis claims, “For more than 200 years, our party has led the fight for civil rights, health care, Social Security, workers’ rights, and women’s rights.”

Despite the fact that this had nothing to do with examining the first day of the convention — which was the purpose of The Fact Checker’s analysis — The Washington Post went on to correct the Democratic record, writing:

It certainly appears to ignore the party’s long and troubled history with race, literally leaping from the “200 years” phrase to 1920, when the women’s suffrage amendment was enacted.

The Web history mentions the leadership of President Woodrow Wilson in helping pass the 19th amendment, without noting that he was a racist or that he repressed civil liberties — even to the point of jailing one of his rivals for the presidency in 1914 (socialist Eugene Debs). [...]

The highly sanitized Web version looks silly by failing to mention such unpleasant facts.

Truly, a fascinating gut-check, especially considering the party’s continued choice to ignore these historical blemishes.

You can review the Fact Check Report here!
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-05-2012, 1:18 PM Reply   
^No that wasn't me, that was Wes. I am still waiting on your counter about you being wrong on the auto plant in WI. That is the only thing with what I took issue.

And did you fact check Eastwood's speech? Last time I checked, Castro nor Reid were VP candidates. They are entitled to their beliefs, just as Clint, you, and I are.

"3) Jobs, too, were on the agenda. Castro said that there have been 4.5 million “new jobs” under president Obama’s watch. This, too, is not the complete truth. The economy, as FactCheck.org highlights, recovered 4 million jobs (of the 4.3 million lost) since the president took office."

Only conservative spin doctors would gripe about an increase in private-sector jobs (something they and the GOP advocate) and a decrease in public-sector jobs (something they and the GOP despise). Reposting it makes you, a self-proclaimed libertarian, a hypocrite.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-05-2012, 1:19 PM Reply   
And again, your debunking proof is a conservative website.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       09-05-2012, 1:50 PM Reply   

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