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Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 6:59 AM Reply   
Need some advice from those of you who have been down the road of new/newer boat purchases. So heres my situation. I am 26, have a very decent paying job for a 26yr old, I rent a nice home, pay all my bills/rent the day the bill comes and I am always on time with payments. No roomates, etc... so everything I pay is on my own. No more truck payments etc... Pretty much I dont do much financing, everything I have bought in the past was cash, except for my last truck which i bought new. I am comfortable with my finances and money in the bank etc... however in the next 1-2 yearsIll have to bite the bullet and be engaged and start looking to purhcase a home.

So onto the boat. I need to upgrade from my current direct drive. I want a more wakeboarding specific boat. I currently am out on the boat 3-4days a week. My season starts in mid april and up til mid october (obviously wet suits for some of this time). I have enough money when I sell my curent boat that I could buy in cash a 25k boat, however then I am back back to minimal money in the bank, so god forbid I lose my job, get hurt, major boat repair etc Im screwed, so I would rather not pay out in full, instead put down 12-15k and finance the remainder. I know the large majority of you are against financing toys, and I use to be the same way. Id buy a new dirtbike all cash, but then have to cut back everywhere else to build up money again and pray nothing catastrophic happened in the mean time. Normally it works out well, however I do not like the feeling of not having a safe amount of money in the bank.

So I have a few older vdrive wake boats in the 20-24k range, that in all reality i would probably only enjoy for 1 year and then want to sell next season and upgrade yet again, or I have a pretty good deal on a new Axis A22 for 50k. I have no desire to have one of these 12year loans, but I do like the low payment of them. My dealer recommends getting a 12yr loan to keep the payments low during the winter and during the summer while my buddies are throwing in a few dollars for payments and Im using the boat a lot he says make large monthly payments with the additional money going towards the principal balance and pay off the boat in 6-7years... Though i know myself, 2 things normaly happen I get sick of things after 3-4 years and I either a) want something new or b) got bored of it and move onto another hobby.

Saving for a downpayment for a house is a must, (what I pay for rent and renting in general is just throwing away money). Purchaseing an engagement ring will certainly happen in the next year or 2 also. A baby is no where in either of our plans for the next 6+ years but with women you never know what goes through their heads worst case 4years til a baby is on board. Though in being resposible all of these "what ifs" come into my mind in order to better plan.

My gut says get the mediocre 20-24k wake boat that needs some work, put down 12-15k and finance the rest on a 4year loan and pay it off in 2. Though I also know going the cheap route isnt always the best and maybe getting a new 50k boat financing for 12 and paying off in 5-6years is better.

My biggest concern is having to sell the boat in case of a hurry, due to injury, loss of job etc... If i have some $800 payment and a baby pops up, or an injury puts me out of work etc... The boat will need to sell so I never want to be in the hole and have to take a hit. If its some cheap $200-300payment, it wont kill me if I have to float the boat payment for a few months until it sells.

Sorry for the long post, but normally I would go to my girlfriends father, however with him passing away a few years ago, large financinal decisions are a learning experience, so any advice is appreciated.
Old    Sean Griswold (seangriswold)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-24-2012, 7:19 AM Reply   
I was around your age when I bought my first boat as well. I was also scared of financing it out that long but I use it so much and get enough enjoyment out of it I decided to go ahead and get what I wanted. The nice thing is you can always pay extra every month and pay down the principal. You just have to be disciplined to do it and it sounds like that would not be a problem for you.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 7:27 AM Reply   
I have no problem paying for something as long as I am enjoying it. Being on the water in some way shape or form has always been a need in my life and my girlfriend. I grew up sailing since I was 5, she started fishing and crabbing at 3. So its great because she feels close to her dad even though he has passed away when were on the water and of course Im nonstop wakeboarding, but at the same token just being able to chill out on the boat is great as well. The intrest is what kills be on a 12yr loan, I feel like even with a large amount down, ill always be in the hole and, like I said when I want to sell it in 4-5years or if im forced to sell for some reason I want to be able to make sure I dont lose my butt on it. I know its easy to trade in a boat you owe money on if youre buying a new boat, but i dont see it being that easy to sell a boat for 40k that you still owe 20k on, etc...
Old    Chris Bucklin (chrisbucklin)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-24-2012, 7:30 AM Reply   
Well I love to boat. And am upgradeing now. Selling a 04 210 sante..can cone close to 25,000
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 7:35 AM Reply   
I love boating as well, but I feel you always need to prepare for the unexpected and at my age, the state of the economy, marriage in the future etc, there leaves a lot to be uncertain about

Would love a Sante, but I think 99% of them are out west, so I am assuming youre not in the east coast right?
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-24-2012, 7:36 AM Reply   
There are some great boats in the 25-30k range that I don't think you'll find the need to upgrade within a year.

SAN 210 and 02-03 Wakesetters come to mind.

I bought a 20k boat, and I really wish that I could have found another 7-10k to shop with, because it really opens up some doors.

So my vote is to buy a 25-30k boat and finance some of it.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 7:40 AM Reply   
I think that is the logical thing, finance a 25-30k boat and Im sure Ill be happy. Its just right now the majority of the 20-30k boats at dealers are 2002-2004s and need a few grand worth of work (amps, PP, speakers etc... ) its probably also due to the fact that its middle of the summer and dealer inventorys are low. Plus being on the Northeast, not a huge wake scene up here
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-24-2012, 7:45 AM Reply   
Take your time and wait for the right boat. In the mean time, you are still saving money and have a boat to enjoy.

I don't think you'll be too disappointed in what an 02-04 has to offer. Use the missing features to chip the price down. Those features can be added later as money allows (although I couldn't survive without at least a decent stereo and PP).
Old    Chris Bucklin (chrisbucklin)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-24-2012, 7:55 AM Reply   
I'm from Wisconsin. And this needs no $ has system,amps,every thing. Can come take it out all week end if u wish.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
Ive got a decent deal on a 04 Tige 22v, but Im not thrilled with 550hrs, has custom fatsacs, TAPS and PP. Needs a new amp and some trailer work

or an even better deal on a Centurion Avalance 250hrs but needs PP, not really thrilled with the drivers side walk-through ski locker in the rear. Nice boat but doesnt really seem like a wake specific boat, it seems more of a best of all worlds boat. Every other boat that appeals to me a the tri-state dealers is closer to 40k, which if Im spending 40k I mind as well go with a 2012 Axis A22 for 50k out the door lol. Im really hoping the lack of good used boats is because its the middle of the summer. I have my boat up for sale and by all means if someone wants it, im certainly selling it
Old     (Thrall)      Join Date: Oct 2010       07-24-2012, 7:58 AM Reply   
Since it appears that you have a pretty good handle on your finances, it isn't a sin to finance a boat.
That mentality of not financing toys is a good one and one that I've stuck with, however I was 31 when I could afford my first boat and 37 by the time I could afford a real wakeboat, cash.
Looking back, kinda wish I had a boat sooner.
Amortize out your differnet potential loan options and see how much interest you're really paying (knowing that up front you're trhowing down mostly interest and the back end of the loan is mostly principle).
Knowing what your downpayment budget is and how long/how much you want to finance, you can figure out your top dollar you want to spend.
Then to keep yourself safe and not ever upside down on it, look for a used boat (someone else took the initial depreciation) with a proven track record that is popular with good resale.
Try to sell your current boat when the market is better (spring/summer) and buy a newer one when sales slow down (fall/winter). Look for that guy who's trying to get out from under HIS $700 payment for the winter.

I sold my 1st boat and bought my current one backwards from this, summer purchase, winter sale, so that works too if you find the right deal, just more options I think the other way around.
Also remember, unless you intend to see out the full term on a loan, it doesn't help in the short term to pay extra principle. You can run the calcs with extra principle paid vs when you plan to pay it off to see if it benefits you financially.
One last thing, some geographical areas are a better buyers market than others. The southwest was a buyers market when I got my X2 and that's where I ended up finding a deal from a guy that was upside down on his boat. Not sure if that holds true still.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-24-2012, 8:00 AM Reply   
The only thing that worries me from that read is "I either a) want something new or b) got bored of it and move onto another hobby". Spending $50k on a hobby you think you might get bored of doesn't make a lot of sense.

I, like many on here, started out small at your age with an older boat, then moved to a newer I/O then a brand new Moomba and now a brand new MC all within 8 years. My wife and kids are all about the boat so it was an easy choice. I think that having a nice boat when you have a wife and kids is just as good as when you are single, its just used differently.

I'm just going to say spending $50k+ on a boat does in fact depend on your income. If you make $40k/year or less then its a bad decision in my eyes to finance a boat before a house, but if you are making like $60k + it becomes more managable in my eyes.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 8:07 AM Reply   
Obviously Im trying to stay away from what people actually make, but I work 70+hours a week to be able to live comfortably, Im doing pretty good for someone my age, but i also dont exist socially during the week, monday through friday Im out of the house at 530am and home from work between 7-8pm... I enjoy work but I enjoy being able to have nice things also so it all comes hand in hand.

Its all a tough decision, part of me wants to be 26 and have the nicest boat on the water but logically Im trying to act like I am 40 and prepare for the worst. Im still thinking the 20-30k range with partial financing is the way to go, I just have to be able to find the right boat. If I was in the midwest wakeboats are everywhere, here theyre not as common unless its a 86k wake setter
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            07-24-2012, 8:15 AM Reply   
Buy this guys 2004 210 and be very happy with the wake. Keep it a few yrs then upgrade to a bigger boat if needed. You cant go wrong with the 210!

What part of country are you in?
Old    Jenn And Jason Lorist (jlorist)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-24-2012, 8:23 AM Reply   
we were 29 when we purchased our 04 Malibu Wakesetter 21 Xti and put $10K on a $34K boat and financed the rest, our payment is around $220 a month. Our boat is now 8yrs old and I can't imagine not having it, especially with growing up around boats/houseboats, and now having kids. It's turned into our family sport Go with your gut feelings, your the only one who know's your financial situation.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 8:27 AM Reply   
If I knew I was going to keep the same boat for 10-12years, I wouldnt mind a long finance (except for the large interest paid) however like I said earlier, I just know me. I always upgrade every 4-5years... Then again my current truck ive had for 6 years and yes I would like to upgrade but as a grow older I become more logical. No need to upgrade my truck to another truck when it does exactly what it needs to. Plus my girlfriend has a nice new car so whenever I have the urge to have a nice new car I take hers lol.
Old    Raf (Raf1985)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-24-2012, 8:46 AM Reply   
I'm in the exact same situation being 26, decent job, own my own house etc etc. and I always paid cash for everything, especially toys. This year I finally broke down and financed a boat. The loan is kinda long term and if you do the math on the interest paid if you go full term, you will probably cry. I haven't decided whether I want to pay it off early or not but I do have a backup plan in case I do want to pay it off. I have 2 sand rails I could easily sell in a heartbeat for the amount of the boat. I just have no desire to sell them yet and I would like to build up a bit of credit as well. I also kept in mind that its a good idea to put a decent chunk down on the boat so you are never upside down on it.
Old    Dave (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-24-2012, 8:50 AM Reply   
I was 26 when I purchased my first boat. Bought an 02 wakesetter vlx brand new. I had 20k down, financed the rest. It was actually a better interest rate at the time if I took a 15 year loan rather than. 10 or 12 year. So I took the 15 year loan and paid it quickly in 6. I didn't look at it as financing for 15 because I knew I would never do that, but it was nice having the piece of mind knowing if something happened, it was a low payment that wouldn't stress me out so much. I was in the same position, and wanted to purchase a home, etc. I don't know where you are earnings wise, but with the expenses of a home, marrige, and eventually a child (let's face it, it happens). I say get the better boat now, because you may not be able to upgrade. That was my thinking. It took 8 years for me to upgrade, not that I had to, but wanted to. Had I gone with an older boat as I was going to do, I would have been unhappy longer. Find a new or newer axis or a brand to your liking that is similarly priced, and go with it. No point in buying something you are looking to swap in a year, especially looking to get the family thing started.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-24-2012, 9:03 AM Reply   
The difference with a boat is that a good vdrive doesn't really depreciate much past a certain point. I don't think I've ever seen a boat with perfect pass, ballast, and a tower go for under $20k, regardless of hours or condition. So if you get an 04 SAN this year for $25K and keep it for five years and sell it for $20K, it costs you $1000 a year (plus whatever your interest charges are). Where are you going to be able to rent a legit wakeboat for $1000 a year.

Go small, keep a nest egg for a rainy day. Early 2000s SAN, VLX, Xstar, etc. should fit your price range and have great wakes.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 9:17 AM Reply   
Thanks everyone. Ive been running some numbers on 12-15year loands the interest is just insane anywhere from 15-20k in just interest! granted again I know it wouldnt be strong out that long, but to cut it in half, I need to make consistent 800/mo payments which Im not really looking to do.

Everyone has great points, I know now is the time to splurge and buy the expensive boat because it may or may not be possible to do with kids, mortgage, wife, house expenses etc... but at the same token I dont want to be boat poor now. A 20-25k boat still keeps money in my pocket and the bank to still live comfortably. I think thats the way to go, just need to find the boat thats all
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-24-2012, 9:21 AM Reply   
If you're in the northeast, stretch your range into the North Carolina and South Carolina regions. You'll find great boats down this way and you can easily tow back to the northeast with a U-Haul rental for a couple hundred bucks. Or just take your truck with you and road trip it.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-24-2012, 9:28 AM Reply   
Great advice Shawn.

Try to stay out of debt for anything but a home where you can get a low interest rate and write it off you taxes.

Buy a well cared for 10 year old CC/BU/MC vdrive for cash and enjoy it for many years.

Next up, house, wife, kids, education funds, etc...
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 9:30 AM Reply   
Im up for a drive, thats no biggie. I have a Quad Cab f250 diesel so a long haul is nothing, plus I enjoy long drives... Though is getting financing for a private sale boat easy?
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-24-2012, 9:41 AM Reply   
I always pay cash and I have just as much fun with my old junk as I do when going out on $70k boats. Other benefits are maintenance is cheaper, labor takes less time, and I have a boat that actually looks nice instead of the new me-too boats that all look the same.

I am around your age, good job, good credit, etc... similar situation, except I work normal hours not 70+. Difference being I have large student loan debt (going to school was biggest mistake of my life), so somewhat different financial situation. I could have got a newer or more expensive boat with a loan and an affordable payment. I see a recurring payment as a liability if I don't own the boat and have to sell for $x to pay off the loan. Owning outright means if I found myself out of work, badly injured, or whatever (same concerns you have), I could price it to sell and it would be gone quickly with no worries.

I think long term on everything. Any interest paid on a loan is wasted money. I can get a boat for $500 and ride behind it, or sky is the limit... On a short loan, you're looking at $3k-$4k for interest. I would be money ahead in the long run to put that $3k+ elsewhere. I believe debt is slavery, it prevents you,or me at least, from making the big life changes I want to make (relocate, live on water, etc.), so my #1 priority is paying off debt so I can be flexible again, paying interest to line a banker's pockets wouldn't help me achieve those goals. Your situation may be different.

Another thing I found, when I toyed with the idea of financing, is that many companies that will make loans on boats don't want to make a loan on anything more than a couple years old. I was looking in the $10k-$16k range and considered extending to $20k I could finance half or less for a short term to allow myself more comfort in savings. Nobody I talked to wanted to touch that. It was 3-5 yrs old max, or they'd be happy to loan me $100k for a brand new boat. You may find it hard to finance a 10 year old boat for a decent rate, my impression was banks just don't want to deal with old boats or short term loans, it's easy money but not lucrative.

Anyhow, in my case I ended up getting an older direct drive for under half my budget and managed to unload my old I/O in the same transaction. I came to my senses and realized it was silly to spend so much on a boat to get into a vdrive when an older DD would do what I needed and save a ton of money for the things that were more important to me.

Things you may want to consider are...
How soon to buy a house (unless you're relocating soon, you'll be saving money)
How much your wedding will cost
When you want to have kids (can't afford them if you are making huge payments and can't unload a boat you're "under water" on)
What do you really need in a boat to be able to enjoy it... and how much does that cost (be honest, will a $50k boat make you $30k happier than a $20k boat?)
How much longer you can manage 70+ hours/wk, as this may change when married and own a house (no time to maintain house/yard or address the honey-do list during the week, so how often might you really use the boat at that point)

Just don't over-extend yourself because sometimes things change fast.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-24-2012, 10:21 AM Reply   
Originally Posted by Mahoney86 View Post
Im up for a drive, thats no biggie. I have a Quad Cab f250 diesel so a long haul is nothing, plus I enjoy long drives... Though is getting financing for a private sale boat easy?
There are tons of wake boat dealers in the southeast if you want to buy from a dealer.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 10:30 AM Reply   
All very valid reasons. Unfortunately my career is a crappy hour job, the industry is long hours which does pay off in the monetary value, but it certainly does suck that you spend countless hours at work. My buddies get to hit the gym every night, see their girlfriends, go drinking every night etc... However it has made me able to enjoy my relaxation time much better. I enjoy waking up early on the weekend to be the first on the water and sit on the boat from dawn til dusk and do it all again the next day, I make my time with my dogs, my girlfriend more enjoyable and spend less time complaining about the stupid things. Yea it sucks that I have to pay someone $20 a week to cut my lawn, but with hardwork and good pay comes sacrafices. If I was able to wakeboard 7days a week and be on the boat 7days a week, id probably burn myself out and not enjoy it as much as it just becomes routine. Again just the way I feel but long work week makes me relax and enjoy the finer things better
Old     (pprior)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-24-2012, 11:00 AM Reply   
In today's economy I personally would advise against doing anything that would take away from your buffer. Toys are nice and wakeboarding is fun, but if you don't have 6 months pay in the bank in reserve and can pay for boat with cash, then don't do it. Far far too many people burdened with debt, don't become a slave to others, save and purchase only what you can afford (i.e. not on credit).

Others will strongly disagree, but living debt free is a liberating lifestyle and will pay off in the long run, trust me.
Old    Peter L (Indyxc)      Join Date: Jul 2011       07-24-2012, 12:53 PM Reply   
I was in the same boat as you, no pun intended.

I did wait to decide to buy my house first (on a lake) and then the boat. Seems like you've got most of it figured out, but you REALLY can find a nice wakeboat for 25-30 range.

I picked up a nice 04 wakesetter VLX with every option of that year in that price range. Throw together a used Wetsounds system, and it's absolutely perfect. Do I fantasize about owning a brand new boat? Sure. But when it comes down to it unless you are a professional wakeboarder there is a value/year break point for wakeboats, where the return on value really begins to dimish. To me that year is 04 era when wakeboats really began to come to features that now are pretty much standard. Perfect pass, auto ballast, wakeplate/wedge, cool styling, sound system.

If I sold my boat now, I'd be basically paying 3 times more for a new boat, than is maybe 1/2 cooler, in mostly visuals.

Financing an older boat is tricky though. Most big banks won't finance a boat over 5 years old. For me with great credit, I financed through a local credit union. 7% for 8 years, with 20% down. 1.5 years in I have paid off half the boat, and paid roughly 1500 dollars in interest. The interest does irk me a bit, but well worth having the boat now, rather than later.
Old     (Thrall)      Join Date: Oct 2010       07-24-2012, 2:09 PM Reply   
For financing an older boat, look to credit unions as mentioned above.
I financed my 1st boat, short term (like 6months). It was 8yrs old at the time.
In fact, I've used the same credit union numerous times even now that I live 1500mi from them.
They're much easier to deal with than a big bank. Anyway, you don't know unless you ask them.
GIven the cost of these boats, I bet you could get a loan for 50% of the value pretty easily regardless of boat age (within reason).
You know what you can afford, so use that as a guideline and go find a boat!
I had to look for a good year before I found exactly what I wanted at price I was willing to pay.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-24-2012, 2:11 PM Reply   
Thanks again for all the input. I started focusing on looking for just boats in the 20-30k range and there already is a good amount out there on both ends of the spectrum. Now its just selling my current boat.
Old    Chris Bucklin (chrisbucklin)      Join Date: Mar 2012       07-25-2012, 2:04 AM Reply   
u talked bout it would b nice to go out with friends and all...well that aint all cracked up to what its saposta b...just think of all the money u ave by not goin out with them all the time..and whats a friend???go away for a while and c how many friends u truly have...freinds r not alwaysa is where its at! keep that in mine. keep up what ur doin early in life and u will b way happier in the long run..all the $ u would have spent on drinkin all the time u will have paid for a new boat!! heres how i think of it..if u aint making money ur spending costs over 20 bucks a day to sit at home and do nothing! so keep making $ and if u love to boat get one and enjoy the heck out of it
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-25-2012, 4:53 AM Reply   
Chris you hit the nail on the head. unfortunatly in my short 26years, ive learned the hard way a few too many times about "friends" and the funniest thing is the people i think are actually real friends I only see every now and then. The guys that are "friends" come around every weekend when its boat time and bbq time. Im over the whole going out thing really, I have to do it enough with people from work. Id rather be home and in bed at 830-9pm so I wake up feeling good in the morning at 430am... Same as weekends, I cant stand my buddies who sleep the weekend away, get me out on the water just before the crack of sunrise!
Old    Boarder 42 (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-25-2012, 5:07 AM Reply   
One thing that has been brought before. You said you had a new truck. I bet you can borrow against your truck cheaper than the boat. And if your truck is brand new you should be able to come up with that cash difference. Then your toy isnt financed. Please let me know the outcome of this as i think i will be in your "boat" (pardon the pun) next year. I'm 25 now and just got my first DD this winter and will probably be upgrading to a SANTE or Equivalent next summer to fall.
Old    George David (gdavid)      Join Date: Feb 2010       07-25-2012, 5:25 AM Reply   
It is awesome that you are in a comfortable financial situation and enjoy your work and relationship. Since you are in a good situation now it is smart that you are thinking long and hard before changing anything.

My advice would be to have long conversation with your girlfriend about all of your collective plans and goals through the next 5-10 years. It sounds like you are pretty sure that this girl is the one and keeping that solid is priority #1 if you plan to marry her (for happiness and financial reasons). Accurately estimate the costs of your goals, look at things like are you going to be paying for your wedding?, how much house do you plan to buy (and where)?, what is her income?, what is her debt?, do either of you plan to replace or get an extra car?, how much do you like to travel? Put numbers to all of these things and work out a budget then consider the "what ifs?" While you may not be sharing a budget yet it will help when you do and financed purchases made now will be affecting your shared budget. Having an accurate picture of what your finances will look like can not only help you make good decisions but give you peace of mind about. While sitting down and crunching numbers may not be a very romantic thing to do it will show how serious you are about her and your future together and get in the habit of making financial decisions together.

I hope this advice works for you. You sound alot like me just 4 years ago (when I was 27). Since then I have bought a house, replaced my boat, got engaged, got married, and gone to a single income, had 2 kids. It all happened very fast and were all big life changes but we made every decision together and we are happy. Best of luck and enjoy the rest of your long season.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-25-2012, 6:01 AM Reply   
I gotta say, great bunch of guys in this thread with some real advice. I must admit after reading other threads about boat financing I figured this would turn into a worthless thread with people bashing no financers, financers and people arguing about who makes what salary etc... Some very sound advice... Both me and the girlfriend have a pretty solid footing when it comes to accounting and finances etc so we have made budgets before. I think a getting a boat that is only going to cost 10-15k in financing on top of m 12-15k downpayement will be a good entry way into how we handle a mortagage... In all reality I will probably pay the boat off in 1 year as like I said during the season, since all I am doing is spending time on the boat and not wasting money on dinners or bars etc I am able to make a larger boat payment.
Old    John Holmes (holmes)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-25-2012, 7:02 AM Reply   
Hey Rob, I know I'm coming in a little late, I read most of the post, but not all. Congrats on your financial well-being, you are smart for taking your time and not making a quick impulse buy and incurring debt. It sounds like you could have a lot going on in the next few years with ring, marrage, house, and potiential boat. One thing you might consider before the boat is buying a house. Rates are at historical lows, buyers market, and could be a very good investment down the road, just not much fun factor. Heck, buy a house and rent a room.

I have always been a lake guy and understand the enjoyment and personal benefit of lake time. Previous posts were pushing a boat upgrade, payments, borrowing against your truck, long-term financing.....don't do it. You are comfortable, have nice things, savings, and working hard, stop paying rent and take the next step. Nice starter home and no more rent, you would be way ahead. If you do upgrade your boat stick with your orginal plan. Moderate v-drive, get an end-of-season deal, stick with your downpayment plan, and finance for three years. If something happens, you have tremendous equity in your boat. I am sure you know, after buying a boat, most folks spend a lot of money to get the boat exactly the way they want it.

A little different route I know, but after hearing rent, boat, ring, wedding, house, within three years, I had to post. Heck, spend a grand on your current boat, spruce it up and keep it one more year. You should be proud, you are doing well. Smart for not taking on long-term debt for a depreciating asset. Please don't hammer me, I am just an old dad....I have been through a few houses and boats as well, house always came before boat....
Old    William Burell (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-25-2012, 7:21 AM Reply   
A little different route I know, but after hearing rent, boat, ring, wedding, house, within three years, I had to post. Heck, spend a grand on your current boat, spruce it up and keep it one more year. You should be proud, you are doing well. Smart for not taking on long-term debt for a depreciating asset. Please don't hammer me, I am just an old dad....I have been through a few houses and boats as well, house always came before boat....
Couldn't agree with this more. I ride an x9 and was looking to go up to a vdrive last year. Opted to put in stargazer, new hcld's, and a few other things to change up the boat. When it comes down to it how much is a newer boat going to effect what you do? If you feel you'd enjoy a new boat that much more go for it. I wouldn't take away your buffer, try to find something like the 210 where the resale is good, and have fun. You'll pay more in interest but you have money on the side. I financed mine for 4 years through my credit union because "i had the money to buy it cash". That gave me a 4 year buffer, I make higher than min payments to knock down interest, and am happy with the decision. Long term financing just doesn't jive well with me.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-25-2012, 7:30 AM Reply   

no way would I hammer you on that advice. i look at it a few ways, my current boat there is things I want to do to it, Perfact Pass, change the tower, upgrade the stereo, etc... nothing major but it all adds up to a good 5grand on the low end of things and at the end of the day Im still in a 93 DD boat that leaves me wanting a better wake. So in my 26yr old mind it makes more sense to spend another 10-15k and get a boat that already has all of the things Im looking for and that will hold its value for another 3-5years. Ive broken down the math, for what I have into my current boat, the brand new trailer I bought and the modifications I want to make to it put me over the 20k mark of a vdrive and at the end of the day all of the work i but into my current boat would only make the value go up pennies on the dollar, so its a bad financial decesion in my eyes.

One of the hardest things ive ever had to do was relax... I know it sounds stupid for most people but Ive started and owned 2 business since I was 17. I was always on the phone, emailing, looking for new business, keeping current business happy, worying about keeping employees happy and with money in their pockets etc... I would go on vacation and not even enjoy it because i would be stressing about work. Finally I called it quits because I had a job opportunity that I could not pass up, the economy sucked, work was hard to come by and paychecks were not gauranteed with my business. So going to work for someone else was the right financial decision. Unfortunately I work very long hours and my weekday life consists of work, go home, let dogs out, shower, eat and in bed all within about 1hour, wake up and do it again. Ive learned you need to relax and kick back and just chill. Thats what boating has done for me, so no matter what I am always going to be in a boat and if my current boat leaves me wanting and takes away enjoyment, its got to go. And an upgrade has to be resonable, as someone said earlier, will going for a 14k boat to a 50k boat really bring me 36k worth of extra happiness, but going into a 20-25k boat will certainly bring a certain amount of greater enjoyment. Also I think its a better investment, my current boat is going to be worth less and less, while a vdrive will probably only depreciate a few thousand until it hits around the 20k mark.

Obviously the right/smart thing to do is stay with my current boat, suck it up and say Rob, youre 26 with your own paid off boat, who gives a crap, enjoy it for what it is, youre not a prowakeboarder, but lets me realistic Im 26 Im going to think with the wrong head every now and again lol
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       07-25-2012, 7:43 AM Reply   
I say buy one. You are only young once. If you put cash down on it, you should be able to unload it if need be. Boarding gets harder as you get older!
Old    John Holmes (holmes)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-25-2012, 8:33 AM Reply   
Totally understand your delima. I was not quite as young as you, but our old Centurion Elite Air Warrior direct drive surved it's purpose well. We wore that old boat out, extra ballast, sand bags, surfing in circles in the middle of the lake (easy everyone), kids progressing, and we all longed for the open seating, bigger wake, and no hump.
Sell your direct drive, get to shopping, find a deal, don't finance to long (if the word payment is spoken, it's to long), grab your girl, and enjoy some lake earned it. All your points are very valid, you have thought it through. Can't wait to see pics of your crew relaxing in the wrap around seating of your v-drive.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-25-2012, 8:55 AM Reply   
Thanks John!
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-25-2012, 2:50 PM Reply   
I didn't read any of the other posts, but I am guessing some are giving sound, logical financial advice while others are telling you to get in as much debt as you can.

Bottom line: if you need a 10+ year loan to comfortably afford a boat, you can't afford the boat. Period, end of story.

Get something you can pay cash for or pay cash + have a 5 or less year payment you can comfortably afford. From what you said, that sounds like a 25-35k boat would fit in your budget. Further, a 25k boat shouldn't need a bunch of work...there are a lot of good options at that price point.
Old    Dan Lee (dan_lee)      Join Date: Jan 2003       07-28-2012, 7:41 AM Reply   
I disagree. I worked in the boat business when I first learned of 15 year loans. I thought it was crazy, then I went to sell commercial insurance and all my coworkers talked about their $8,000 annual hunting trips, $100 rounds of golf, bar tabs, therapy bills, etc people blow money on.

I gladly pay a $300 boat loan. It is cheap compared to their hobby of choice. Everyone has "x" amount of disposable income and can spend it on whatever they want. If i had to wait until I could pay cash for my boat, I would be too old to land an invert.

The big question to look in the mirror and tackle now

1) Do I have enough life insurance- something could happen tomorrow to make you uninsurable. Your future family needs it. Take what you earn and divide by .05 & that is how you know you have enough to replace your income.

2). Do I have long term disability insurance. 1 in 4 people will be disabled in their working years. I know my friends, family that had cancer that miss months of work, broken ankle that missed 2 months, dirtbike wrecks that missed 3 months, etc.
Would you rather make $75,000 a year or $72,000 and know you would never be fired? $3k a year sounds like a lot of money, but if you can't afford it, how can you afford not to work?

Now the kicker. I quit the insurance game and got back into the boat industry and handle the finance deals. Life is too short, I was good at it but stressed, now I see my satisfaction sending families on the water to make memories. I am thankful I learned what I did. Insurance companies just make way too high profit.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-28-2012, 7:58 AM Reply   
Funny you mention therapy... I have a super stressful job, some major major family issues and a few bad friends... I took lots of psych classes on college and figured hey you know what, my friends are terrible at advice and i have a lot going on so maybe give therapy a shot... It worked wonders but paying $600 a month for it (non reimbursable by my insurance) and doing that for 6 months ($3600+) i finally decided I needed to get back into my own boat and that was my therapy... The $600 a month I was pissing away on therapy could have paid one nice ass boat payment and being on the boat, just blocks everything out from around me. All I think about is the next trick I'm going to do, teaching my buddies and thinking about a nice cove to anchor up in and chill for all day!
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-28-2012, 9:47 AM Reply   
Originally Posted by dan_lee View Post
I disagree. I worked in the boat business when I first learned of 15 year loans. I thought it was crazy, then I went to sell commercial insurance and all my coworkers talked about their $8,000 annual hunting trips, $100 rounds of golf, bar tabs, therapy bills, etc people blow money on.
So because you worked with people that were bad with money, that is the justification for a 15 year loan?

We have a 15 year loan - on our HOUSE. Think about, by the time you are done paying for your new boat, we will be done paying for our house. Paid off house > paid off boat. Guess which one will have a better resale after 15 years.

Too many people out there just blow money like it grows on trees, then wonder why when something goes sliightly off they have to liquidate everything, go bankrupt, etc. It's a problem in this country and is too bad lenders allow it to continue.
Old    Dan Lee (dan_lee)      Join Date: Jan 2003       07-28-2012, 11:10 AM Reply   
Originally Posted by Mahoney86 View Post
Funny you mention therapy... I have a super stressful job, some major major family issues and a few bad friends... I took lots of psych classes on college and figured hey you know what, my friends are terrible at advice and i have a lot going on so maybe give therapy a shot... It worked wonders but paying $600 a month for it (non reimbursable by my insurance) and doing that for 6 months ($3600+) i finally decided I needed to get back into my own boat and that was my therapy... The $600 a month I was pissing away on therapy could have paid one nice ass boat payment and being on the boat, just blocks everything out from around me. All I think about is the next trick I'm going to do, teaching my buddies and thinking about a nice cove to anchor up in and chill for all day!
You gotta have motivation in life. If boating does it, that is awesome, I know it motivates me and I treasure the time on the water.

Originally Posted by nitrousbird View Post
So because you worked with people that were bad with money, that is the justification for a 15 year loan?

We have a 15 year loan - on our HOUSE. Think about, by the time you are done paying for your new boat, we will be done paying for our house. Paid off house > paid off boat. Guess which one will have a better resale after 15 years.

Too many people out there just blow money like it grows on trees, then wonder why when something goes sliightly off they have to liquidate everything, go bankrupt, etc. It's a problem in this country and is too bad lenders allow it to continue.

Not sure to go with you on this Nitrousbird. I think if you read my post about planning for the future you would note I'm probably not some guy who is over extended. I do spend it on what I like. Every person pisses away money, regardless. If the original poster wants to do it on a boat loan, so be it. He can still get his mortgage as long as all his bills don't put his debt to income over 40%. I believe that is the advice he is asking.

SInce you are calling me out, I got my boat for about $4,000 under list value & will pay about $3,000 in interest with my accelerated payments. Voodoo math can call that a gain of $1,000.

I realize why I haven't been on this site much in the past 5 years. Reading a few threads on here I forgot how many psuedo-financial planners, boat engineers, diesel experts and pro wakeboarders grace wakeworld.

I'll put my financial plan, my credit score, my debt to income and my estate plan up against anyone. I think it's pretty damn good for a B-average marketing student from a small college who has worked hard and played hard with no silver spoons. Top that off with my good looks and my wakeboarding skills, I'd say I'm a good candidate for a reality show if they ever gave a **** about producing a show about a hard working American who likes to have a good time.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-29-2012, 5:34 AM Reply   
So now a bigger curve ball is thrown at it. Ive been hinting to my father that Im going to buy another boat. My current boat he doesn't even know about because of fear he would kill me over it. My dad has very good financial mind, but I normally don't go to him for advice because he is 100% against me buying toys unless I absolutely need them, which if it is a toy I probably don't. So I've been slowing hinting towards boats and last night I explained myself working, needing an escape and relaxation etc and he said a boat sounds great. I told him I'm going to get something in the 20-30k range and pay it off in 1-2 years, how much Im putting down etc....

So after him telling me he would rather me buy a 60' cabin cruiser so that he can live on it and I can drive him around we started talking about the boats I have been looking at. I was pretty much dead set on a 02+ SAN 210. I told him Ive seen some in the 25-30 range but the newer, less hour ones with more options are in the 32-36k range. I mean geez I've seen some 04 SAN 210s at dealers for close to 40k! So my DAD then asked well what about getting a new boat and doing a 12yr finance with a good downpayment and make larger than minimum payments and pay it off in 5-6years... I was totally shocked, as my dad has never bought a boat before or knows anything about it them.

I told him if I were to get a high end boat like a Wake Setter, New Nautique, Mastercraft, etc... Im looking at 60-80k boats which I just don't need. But I said Im looking at an Black/Blue 2012 Axis A22 for 50k. He said wow thats pretty reasonable, but down 12-15k and finance 35k. He said think about it, you have a boa with a warranty, its brand new, you don't have to worry about anyones poor maintenance etc... He said it just sounds to make more sense to spend 50k on a brand new boat then spend possibly over 30k on a boat thats 8-9years old with 3-400hours, no warranty etc...

Im still leaning much further onto the used boat as having a large debt loan scares the crap out of me, but at the same token I also know i can handle it. Ugh I need to hit the water haha
Old    Boarder 42 (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-29-2012, 5:44 AM Reply   
^^^ Glad you talked to your pops. My dad is the same way. But when i found the DD that i bought this winter he was on board with possibly loaning me a couple grand for a month til my tax return came in. I was completely shocked. Just goes to show you dont know everything about even your own parents. And if you show enthusiasm about something, the will see that and be supportive.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-29-2012, 5:55 AM Reply   
Yeah Jess, normally everything in the past that I buy he flips out about. Flipped all all my dirt bikes, flipped when I bought a motorcycle, flipped when he saw snowmobiles outside my house etc... So normally I just try and limit my stressors and don't tell him about my toy purchases. But I figured hey, if I buy a new/newer boat he is bound to see it at my house sooner or later or hear about it at least so I said hey i mind as well tell him before his top splits. He was 100% supportive and wants to see me on the water the most I can and also make the best move in buying it. It was a very strange talk with dad yesterday. Normally its no SAVE YOUR MONEY AND BUY A HOUSE! But I did the payments for my trade in and down payment and Im looking at 250-300 per month for 12 years... During the summer its going to easily be a triple payment and in the winter, its the 250 payment... So i would easily pay it off in half the time
Old    Tal Cloud (Kingsriver)      Join Date: Aug 2011       07-29-2012, 4:07 PM Reply   
Rob, I just bought my 3rd new boat in the last 26 years I am 47 now. I bought new because I did not want to deal with breakdowns or problems on the water. When you work as much as you do, do you want to spend your weekends hoping your boat will run or not. The last boat I bought new for 20k and sold it 15 years later for 10k. My wife only wanted me to spend 40k on a wakeboard boat but after looking at what we could get for 40k we went new. Too bad you live on east coast as Sanger,MB and Supeme make some nice boats for 50kish. Live life as you only get one chance and if you work hard it will all work out in the end.
Old    Rob Mahoney (Mahoney86)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-29-2012, 6:20 PM Reply   

Im with you on that one... I was talking with a body of money who has cabin cruisers today... With the time I work its not worth wondering is the boat going to to work 100% this weekend, no issues, can I shut this off and shut that off and hang out in the cove with no issues etc... Id rather be out a few extra K to have the peace of mind of a well taken care of boat. Don't get me wrong there is loads of well taken care of boats out there, but the price point is only a few K away from a new boat
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-30-2012, 6:04 AM Reply   
A new boat is not like a new Lexus. Every new boat will be back in for warranty work. They are custom hand built machines. For reliability, I'd look for a one or two year old boat still under warranty with all the kinks already worked out.


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