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Old    Ryan (petrie141)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-27-2012, 7:50 AM Reply   
Any ideas? A few have been off by only a couple hundred while others have a 15% difference. What's the easiest way to say "your boat isn't work what you're asking". Anyone have experience with this in the past? Thanks.

- Ry
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-27-2012, 7:55 AM Reply   
Simple. Don't buy it. NADA isn't always right.
Old    Markj (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-27-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
If you're trying to get a good deal on a boat, wait until summer is over.
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-27-2012, 7:58 AM Reply   
If you are corresponding with the seller via email, save a copy of the NADA value page to .pdf and email it to the buyer. I just pulled values on my boat for a refi and one thing to note is that NADA value does not include value of the trailer. I did a NADA on my 2008 Boatmate tandem axle trailer alone and came up with a value of about $2,500 - which is low in my opinion, but something to consider. Another thing with all these retardedly expensive stereos, these sellers want their money back out of the systems they have put in. Also, quite a few boat sellers are normally on the fence on selling anyway. They list high and see what happens. Offer what your willing to pay, the worst someone can say is no.
Old    Dave O (wakedaveup)      Join Date: May 2012       07-27-2012, 7:58 AM Reply   
Just don't buy it man. So many things to consider as well. A lot of people think "low hours" is always the BEST! Then they want to charge top dollar. I just had two boats (both sold at low retail through NADA) both 2005 models and both only had about 100 hours on them. After doing a service check we found out that due to the boat sitting for so long the gas in both boats had gone bad. Needless to say these so called prestine boats with low hours that could supposely go for top dollar ended up having to pull out the gas tanks, flush them. Pull out the injectors, clean them. Then do about 5 other related things as well. Be cautious when people are asking top dollar. Inspect the boat yourself or have someone else do it. If it has low hours ask how long it has sat. With all the ethonol in gas these days it creates huge problems when boats sit. So just because a guy has a clean boat with low hours does not give him the right to charge above what the boat is worth. As we all know they do it anyways but just proceed with caution, explain the risk of buying a boat that has low hours or may have sat for awhile and work the owner until you both feel you can sleep at night with the deal. Hope that helps.
Old    Ryan (petrie141)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-27-2012, 8:09 AM Reply   
Thanks for the advise guys. This will be our first (boat) purchase so we're just very skeptical of what people have to offer. A lot of times I'm reading the ads thinking if it's such a spotless, perfectly maintained, and reliable boat, why are they selling it? I'm also finding that when they try to throw in their ropes/boards/tubes/buoys, they're trying to add the full value. A 2007 board/binding shouldn't add $400 to the value of the boat. Same thing for these $1000 cd/mp3 players. Maybe I'm crazy thinking that though? I know that sometimes NADA does include the value of the trailer as well. When selecting the model of the boat if it has two stars (**) that usually means it'll include that value of a trailer. I'm sure NADA isn't always right, but it at least gets me in the ballpark.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-27-2012, 8:11 AM Reply   
Nada is a guide simple as that. Back before the economy hot boats like 205v's and 210's were going easily over nada because new boats were so friking expensive and those old boats were at a premium.

A lot has to do with location and availability. Here in Midwest used wakeboats are at a premium and we get 3-7k more than that exact bot would get in Cali or Fla where boats are more abundant. As mentioned the stereos and fact nada doesn't give u trailer are other factors. Sometimes of the boat is high that may also be what they owe. It's simple. If he wont deal and u think it is too high don't buy it. Pay what you want. Nada is just a guide not an exact price point to follow
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-27-2012, 8:11 AM Reply   
Move on to the next boat. Location says something as well. If you want the best deal you are more than likely going to have to travel, or get it shipped. Boats are less expansive away from Socal for a fact. There are just not that many boats here as there are in the south or Midwest.. Stereos do have a value, maybe half of what they said they paid. If the boat did not have one, you will end up spending your money on one anyways. Like Dave said, so many things to consider. Buy in the late fall or winter is correct.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-27-2012, 8:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrie141 View Post
Any ideas? A few have been off by only a couple hundred while others have a 15% difference. What's the easiest way to say "your boat isn't work what you're asking". Anyone have experience with this in the past? Thanks.

- Ry
NADA means absolutely zilch except for what the bank will let you borrow. Some boats the market value is over NADA, some under. NADA is not a very good thing to look at for determining the value of a boat. For example, I bought a 2003(I think it was an 03) CAlabria Cal-Air direct drive abotu 4 years ago. I paid 27ish for it which was right about what it was worth although maybe a couple grand under value. I looked up NADA and it was like 40k on the boat. It was so friggen off it wasn't funny. Now it worked in my favor because the bank ended up loaning be 100% of the purchase price because it was so much under the nada value.

What year, make, model, options, hours and condition are these boats you are talking about?
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-27-2012, 8:30 AM Reply   
^^^^^ NADA means nothing unless the buyer is financing the boat.
Old    Joe Lo (JoLo_Si)      Join Date: Oct 2011       07-27-2012, 8:32 AM Reply   
Low ball them and see what happens. Then check back in 30 days and see if they still have it. That's when you would have the upper hand.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-27-2012, 8:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
^^^^^ NADA means nothing unless the buyer is financing the boat.
Not sure if that was directed at me but I brought that up. Still doesn't mean anything for what the boat is worth. If it is a high demand boat it might not matter that it is over NADA. Someone that has the cash to put down will buy it.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-27-2012, 8:32 AM Reply   
do you think this is below Nada?

http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=33691

someone gets a deal on this fire sale
Old    Ken W (kenteck)      Join Date: Jan 2005       07-27-2012, 8:41 AM Reply   
NADA doesn't mean much like Brett was saying, only if your going through the bank, then it does, the banks have something to go off on, really most of the time its just fair market value, unless its with in 7 or so years old..... imo
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-27-2012, 8:41 AM Reply   
Brett, I was agreeing with you.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       07-27-2012, 8:42 AM Reply   
If you really want the boat....tell them the banks go by NADA values. They will only loan based off that value. Make them feel like they wont' be able to sell unless they adjust their price.....they will lose alot of marketability if they can only sell to cash buyers.

If someone said that to me and I was selling for mroe than NADA, I woudl just tell them to come up with a bigger down pmt to get the L to V ratio where it needs to be
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-27-2012, 8:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by acurtis_ttu View Post
If you really want the boat....tell them the banks go by NADA values. They will only loan based off that value. Make them feel like they wont' be able to sell unless they adjust their price.....they will lose alot of marketability if they can only sell to cash buyers.

If someone said that to me and I was selling for mroe than NADA, I woudl just tell them to come up with a bigger down pmt to get the L to V ratio where it needs to be
Good point and bargaining chip. I have actually used it the other way when selling. When I sold the calabria I was talking about I showed that I was selling for liek 10k under NADA. Hell of a deal.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-27-2012, 8:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
Brett, I was agreeing with you.
Sorry, I took your post wrong I guess.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-27-2012, 9:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknot View Post
do you think this is below Nada?

http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=33691

someone gets a deal on this fire sale
I'd sure agree that's a smoking deal, assuming it has a least a hammerhead in it. Not much narrative to go along with those pics...
Old    Jonathan B (espritv8)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-27-2012, 10:06 AM Reply   
I bought an 04 avalanche, well below market price... But after adding options and get everything to work perfect, I spent close to what I would have been paying normally.

Values for a boat like mine range from 22K to 32K because each boat is different... In the end nada means not much. Considering all the factors like area, the condition of the boat, maintenance, options it is impossible to rely only on nada to evaluate the price of a boat.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-27-2012, 10:14 AM Reply   
NADA doesn't mean much. It can get you in the ballpark, but could be way high or way low. Look at what people are asking for similar boats and look at what they are selling for on ebay (completed listings). AT the end of the day there's I deal with people asking a high price the same as someone asking an average price. I inspect the item, figure out what it's worth to me, and make an offer. When I make an offer it's typically the price I'm willing to pay, and I won't pay a penny more. Take it or leave it, if they say no I walk away and keep looking.
Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       07-27-2012, 10:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
I'd sure agree that's a smoking deal, assuming it has a least a hammerhead in it. Not much narrative to go along with those pics...
Says it has the monsoon...and it is a 25 footer....that is a small motor for their biggest boat.

As far as NADA prices....grain of salt my friend. In the end, as everyone is saying, location, time of year, extra goodies, etc, etc....will all affect the price. Asking price is just that.

And to answer why someone would sell a perfect condition boat? Boats are hobbies (at least pretty much all of ours are)...so many here like to have the latest and greatest, or some of us (myself) had a near perfect direct drive and sold to get a v-drive...or some would sell to get a bigger boat...or....

First boats can be a bit scary. They can get super expensive without warning but these inboards are incredibly reliable from my experience. Hopefully you are handy with tools so any issues can be fixed on the cheap. Most of the stuff (thankfully) that has been super expensive have been things that I wanted to add to the boat - stereo, bimini's, perfect pass, stereo
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-27-2012, 1:40 PM Reply   
Any boat is only worth what someone will actually pay for it. Not a penny more.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-27-2012, 2:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Any boat is only worth what someone will actually pay for it. Not a penny more.
QFT.

If someone is bat-**** crazy on their asking price, they'll figure it out soon enough.... whenit doesn;t sell. If you're really interested in it, you could always show them com parables and those prices to try and bring the number closer to what you're looking for.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-27-2012, 3:56 PM Reply   
just remember NADA, Edmonds, KBB etc etc these companys dont write checks. They dont buy cars, boats, bikes or anything else. If you really want to see what boats or cars are going for, you need to see what auction prices are. I am not sure where boat auctions are held, but i have friends that are members of a national boat auction program, bank repo's resellers, gov't repo's etc etc. they have everything you can imagin.

I usually sell my boat to someone i know or trade it back in, so i really think its better to sell at a reasonable price and cut out all the bs, but if the seller is in no hurry and does not need the money, someone will pay to play and if they have a nice boat, in great shape and well taken care of, it may also be a piece of mind for the buyer to feel safe paying up for something. good luck
Old    CT (boardnxtx)      Join Date: Jun 2009       07-27-2012, 5:06 PM Reply   
You also have to remember that many people see that boat dealers or other banks finance boats for up to 15 years, so they see it as an opportunity to buy a boat they normally wouldn't be able to afford if terms were much shorter. Therefore, the vast majority of their payments for a very long time simply go straight to interest and the principal balance is minimally reduced. I've seen this a million times. People have their boats priced ridiculously high because they still owe a ton on them and they don't want to have to write a check when they sell it to cover the difference between a lower sales price and what they owe. You'll be able to tell which boats these are, as they usually sit on the market for a very long time. NADA and other sales comps don't matter to these types of people, as it comes down to what they owe on the boat and they don't want to get their a** handed to them when they sell it.

Be patient. Summer is almost over in most places and prices will begin to fall.
Old     (pprior)      Join Date: Jan 2012       07-28-2012, 8:13 AM Reply   
the way you deal with anyone in a negotiation is to make an offer, and if they refuse and you don't want to pay more, then look elsewhere.

There are lots of boats for sale. Sounds like you've fallen in love with one in particular but aren't willing to pay what the owner thinks it's worth. Remember owners have lots of reasons to sell and if they want more than what an average boat in that type is worth per NADA well it's only really worth what a buyer will pay. Local markets and individual buyer/seller finances will affect that. Especially as noted above, some people are upside down on boats (stupid thing to do...) and so will want more.

My advice, make an offer based on what you want to pay, if they so no then just tell them, if you change your mind, I'll give you ($$ amount less) later, and walk away. Keep looking and you may yet hear from them. The best negotiation tactic is often to walk away from the table.

There are lots of boats for sale - tell yourself this over and over again as you fall in love with one and find yourself thinking about paying more than you should.
Old    Ryan (petrie141)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-28-2012, 8:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
the way you deal with anyone in a negotiation is to make an offer, and if they refuse and you don't want to pay more, then look elsewhere.

There are lots of boats for sale. Sounds like you've fallen in love with one in particular but aren't willing to pay what the owner thinks it's worth. Remember owners have lots of reasons to sell and if they want more than what an average boat in that type is worth per NADA well it's only really worth what a buyer will pay. Local markets and individual buyer/seller finances will affect that. Especially as noted above, some people are upside down on boats (stupid thing to do...) and so will want more.

My advice, make an offer based on what you want to pay, if they so no then just tell them, if you change your mind, I'll give you ($$ amount less) later, and walk away. Keep looking and you may yet hear from them. The best negotiation tactic is often to walk away from the table.

There are lots of boats for sale - tell yourself this over and over again as you fall in love with one and find yourself thinking about paying more than you should.
Good advice, he didn't want to budge, neither did I. Of course when I hung up the phone I was bummed, but when one door closes, another opens. I'll be keeping my chin up and eye on the listings for a while. I can't even tell y'all how many times I've clicked the refresh button. Especially on the weekends when nothing else is going on. I can only watch some much olympic ping pong without checking the computer lol
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-28-2012, 9:40 AM Reply   
NADA is a joke for real values of cars or boats.

The bargining chip I used for getting our boat was other boats. I showed other boats, both a little cheaper and a little more expensive, when negotiating with the seller, showing why my one and only offer was in-line. I got it for exactly what we wanted to pay.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-28-2012, 3:28 PM Reply   
NADA is a guide for sure. I use it as a ballpark figure here in Minnesota. A lot of times up here in Minnesota it's all we have to go off of. As people have said prices are regional. Up here it's pretty tough sometimes to find 2 of the same model same year to compare. Bottom line is you have to pay what you are comfortable with. I am looking for a new rig but not in a hurry. I check craigs and other sites daily. I see the same overpriced boat adds recycled over and over day after day. These boats will never go for that price or anywhere close. Most are so high I don't call on them because when I make what I think is a fair offer based on the market, the guy is surely going to be offended. As posted earlier people take these long term loans and when the boat depreciates 25% the first year alone it takes them a long time to catch up. Say a guy buys a $70K boat and tries to sell it 2 years later, he might find himself 15-20K in the hole.

A buddy of mine who has been selling boats for 30+ years always gives me the same answer when I ask him what a boat is worth.........whatever someone is willing to pay for it!!!!

Bottom line is....is it worth it to you? I am a grinch and refuse to over pay, so love the boat or not I walk. There will be a new one listed tomorrow!
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       07-28-2012, 3:35 PM Reply   
Interesting that the 247 has the Monsoon. I didn't even think the factory made any 247's with the monsoon.

As far as a boat, I was trying hard to get the guy I was buying from on my boat to go lower. I think he was just a little high. After we finally negotiated a price (more like he set a price and I finally decided I could do it) then when we did paperwork, I cut a check to the bank and then one to him for $400. He couldn't really go lower because he owed that much on it.

There are lots of people wasting time on the internet trying to hammer guys down on price, hoping to find that desperate seller. And there are lots of people who really don't need to sell their boats, and just put up a huge inflated number. Those people are stupid.

This guy has had this ad up continuously for the last 18 months. I think he is smoking dope.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218...ch=mastercraft
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       07-28-2012, 5:07 PM Reply   
My formula is simple. Call them get all the details but say nothing to insult them. Over time they will learn that their boat is not worth the asking price or they might get lucky and find a sucker willing to overpay. File the details away and wait till the end of summer and give them a call. Ask them a simple question at that time: "Are you ready to sell that boat yet?" If they say yes, tell them you have done your homework and are willing to give them a fair offer and ask to meet and discuss in person. Have the cash in your bank ready to go, meet them on a Saturday morning early enough to test drive and still make it to the bank to get a check if you can agree on a price. If the boat runs out OK, make them a fair offer. If they accept, you have your boat, if not they will probably sit on it through the winter again.
Old     (J)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-29-2012, 1:03 PM Reply   
Don't pay more than your budget....it is that simple. The inboard market is pretty crazy these days, so be prepared for all kinds of overpriced boats. In my search,
most of those people are upside down, so they are really stretching their boat prices. My advice is to find a good dealer you trust, and work with them to buy a good
used one they take in on a trade. Good dealers won't get buried in buying someone else's debt on their boat. Plus, a good dealer will help you by checking out the used boat before you take it to the lake. My $.02.....
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-29-2012, 2:34 PM Reply   
funny thing I am seeing is people I sold boats to as a dealer are asking 5 grand more than what they paid and here it is a year later !
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-29-2012, 3:23 PM Reply   
I think J makes a good point. I used to avoid dealers because of the higher prices. Lately it seems the dealers have the prices inline with the market and you get the piece of mind buying from a dealer. You know they are going to check out the boat because they don't want to get burned on it plus they have a reputation to worry about. 2 of the inboard dealers up here also consign ski boats. They price them fairly and they sell them as fast as they get them. In demand boats are gone in a week or less. The one is currently sold out of used and the other just has a couple old 2001's that just aren't in demand up here.

Plus you don't deal with a private seller, to many stupid uneducated boaters. There is something to be said for that. I have had good and bad experiences over the years with dealers and private sellers. But more private sellers for sure and for the most part you have little legal recourse with a private seller. We had/ are having a very poor experience with a buyer from May. It was a poor selling experience and I still hear from the guy almost weekly via text or email. He is a new boater and expects me to train him and help with any/every problem. The guy is really a jerk and has been a night mare. Short of deleting my email and changing my number I can't get rid of the guy. Has really turned us off to private party sales. Since we are looking to move up the wife has already said she just wants to trade the boat to a dealer even if it costs a little more. It seems there are more morons in the boat world then seasoned boaters. Some people really think there is some warranty or lemon law on a used boat from a private seller. I had the same guy argue that exact fact to me and this idiot claims to own a used car dealership.
Old    Tdc_worm C (tdc_worm)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-29-2012, 4:03 PM Reply   
after reading the title of this thread, i didnt read the original posters question nor the responses that followed. if it has already been addressed, then i apologize. this thought process is a clear indictment of the demise of capitalism and our education system.

if you cant figure out how to deal with somebody that has something you want, but wants more than you want to give for it, then you are part of the problem...
Old     (J)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-29-2012, 8:35 PM Reply   
One last comment....Most private sellers will not have clear title in hand for the boat and trailer, since they
still have it financed. Be very careful about any transaction that does not get you the title when money is exchanged.
(Another good reason to work through a reputable dealer)
Old    WiscoWakester (wakeboy01)      Join Date: Apr 2009       07-30-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
I agree with SWATGUY being from the midwest it seems like the boats here are inflated a little bit over NADA due to the lack of supply. It's a guide though and NADA states that their higher dollar amount is an average boat.

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