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Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-01-2012, 11:06 AM Reply   
Hey all new guy here. Been looking for a good v drive for a while. Had my mind set on a 90s sanger v210 or a 90s malibu vlx. I found a 97 supreme v210 the other day for $10.8 the other day though. Has a tower and perfect pass and a good trailer, but theres a couple small rips on the sun deck and the carpet has a small tear. Is this a good boat and a good deal? Ive only ridden in a newer supreme and know nothing about the boat and havent found any helpful info besides magazine articles and of course they will only say good things. What are your thoughts? Thanks all!

Last edited by Matth101; 08-01-2012 at 11:15 AM.
Old    Jay Wedsted (jbird)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-01-2012, 11:46 AM Reply   
In '98, Supreme decked the Medalist V210 into the Sky Supreme by adding ballast and whatnot, I had the Shawn Murray edition! I would consider hours and maintenance rituals into it, but for that price, ya pretty good deal!
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-01-2012, 12:00 PM Reply   
Thanks Jay! The boat has 480 hours and regular seasonal maintenance. How is the wake on it? I figure i can install my own ballast with v drive sacks, locker sack, and a bow sack for around $1700 this winter. Does it drive well? Dependable?
Old    Jay Wedsted (jbird)      Join Date: Jun 2011       08-01-2012, 3:18 PM Reply   
Actually, mine was a direct drive, still it had a decent wake with full ballast!
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-01-2012, 4:00 PM Reply   
A 97 V-drive with fairly low hours for under 11K? I'd call that a very good deal. Especially if he has good maintenance records. Most boats that age are going to show some wear on the carpet and vinyl. Looked at a lot of boats that vintage last year and even up here in Minnesota most were getting close on vinyl or had new. Best deal I saw on a V drive was a 99 sunsetter VLX with 1450 hours for around 17K.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-01-2012, 5:41 PM Reply   
That sounds like a really low price for a V-drive, even if it needs some interior work.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-01-2012, 8:01 PM Reply   
Thanks for the reply guys. Id post a link but the ad is expired and he isnt going to repost it until i come inspect it. I had the ad saved to my craigslist ipad app so here are some pics of the boat. Ive edited out the hull numbers and license plate for privacy and such :-P




Watcha think??
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-01-2012, 8:04 PM Reply   
I think for the price if everything checks out thats hard to pass up!!!
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-02-2012, 6:28 PM Reply   
Is 10.8 a really good deal for asking price? He said he had an offer the day that I first emailed him and he said he still has it for sale because the offer wasn't near his asking price. My buddy is going to check it out for me in Saturday because he lives 9 hours closer to the seller than I do. If it checks out I'll probably buy it. I know the supreme isn't one of the big 3 or a sanger but I think if it's a good boat that throws a good wake, has a good ride and not a shallow interior that I would be perfectly happy. I sat in a new sanger v210 at a dealer and basically felt that I was gonna fall out of the boat. I was getting interested in a 96 vlx For 15.5 that had a tower but no upgraded stereo or anything else. I'd really be happy if this boat turned out to be a sweet ride for the price and have a little more money to put auto ballast and stereo in it
Old    Jeff Hill (hillbilly)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-02-2012, 7:43 PM Reply   
A friend of mine had one a few years back.....Kind of narrow so a bit sensitive on side to side weight....decent wake and plenty good enough to have fun on!
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-02-2012, 7:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth101 View Post
Is 10.8 a really good deal for asking price? I know the supreme isn't one of the big 3 or a sanger
At least East coast wise, Sanger is no more of a name than Supreme or Epic for that matter. No one has one and no one seems to care.

The deal is you are looking at a running V-drive for ~10k. Even a Gekko gets scooped up for that price point. Maybe where you are at it is different, but where I am (Ohio) good luck touching a running V-drive in okay condition for under 15k. And 15k is mid-90's, lower on the options and nothing special.
Old    Jay (parkcityxj)      Join Date: Mar 2001       08-02-2012, 8:11 PM Reply   
That's a smokin' deal, it'd go for at least 15-17K here in Utah. It's almost impossible to find a V-drive for less than 20k, if there is one it's gone in a day or two. Hope you got it.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-02-2012, 9:06 PM Reply   
Minnesota is the same boat as the above to posters.... can't touch any V-drive for anywhere close to that. Heck if that boat was here i'd buy to resell even if I didn't want it. Only V-drive I have seen here for less than 20K was a 99 sunsetter VLX for 17K with 1500 hours and it showed every hour.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-04-2012, 10:54 PM Reply   
Ok so heres the scoop from what my buddy told me after checking out the boat. On the exterior, there are mabye 7 nice chips in the gel coat that need to be repaired cause theyre pretty deep as well as a few long scratches. The carpet obviously needs to be replaced as well as most the hinges on opening compartments. Theres the rips on the sun deck that need to be repaired and maybe a couple more small ones in other spots. The front keel was scratched up from being beached on rocks, and aparently the foam from one of the boat guides had been very worn down for a while and the guide did some rubbing on one of the front sides. The interior structure he said could use some tlc like the wood work could be looked at and replaced while the carpet is being replaced. The trailer is in good condition but the brakes i believe need servicing. Other than that he said the boat had done a decent amount of sitting this and last season so when they fired it up it took a try or 2, but after that it started up every time and ran fine, gauges worked fine. ALSO there is no boat cover. The current owner said he stored it under a covered area WITH A TARP during the winters but no rain or precipitation was able to reach the interior i believe (kinda ghetto...). I will post pics when my buddy emails them to me so theyll probably be up on here tomorrow. How does this sound to you all?? Anyone replaced carpet and had major gel coat work done? How much $$$ am i looking at in getting it up to shiny status?? Figure i could get some nice carpet and lay it myself for a few hundred and my sisters old friend did gel coat work so maybe a case of beer and a few pulls behind the boat would be good for him . Ive seen sanger v210s go for 13k and i LOVE the wake pics ive seen on them so i dont wanna buy the boat if its a money pit, but at the same time theres the shallow hull in the sanger and all but maybe i could deal with it. Thanks in advance!

Last edited by Matth101; 08-04-2012 at 10:59 PM.
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       08-05-2012, 8:22 AM Reply   
If the structural fiberglass is sound,gel coat repair is no big deal even if it a deep chip.Fill it,gel coat it,sand it,and buff it,done.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-05-2012, 2:50 PM Reply   
ok guys so here are the pics. a few things are a little nastier than i thought and gonna definitely need some attention. First I'll show you the interior





Not too bad but heres the keel and ONE of the dings in the side






Again thats just the biggest scratch on the side but that keel is a pretty deep gouge. I've done some fiberglass work but not sure how well my work would stand up to repairing a boat hull. Like I've said before, I'm not in too much of a hurry to get in to a boat that is going to be a pain in the butt to get up to snuff BUT if it's a VERY good deal I'd be open to it. These gouges are nothing like what I've dealt with on my BlueWater Monte Carlo that we've had since 94 (which puts out a really dang good wake for an i/o when weighted down ) so I might need to take it in for that keel damage. Do you guys think asking price is still fair?? I am actually flying to the guys local airport for work on wednesday so i will be stopping by to take a look at it personally then so hope to get your honest opinions thanks y'all!!
Old    Jay (parkcityxj)      Join Date: Mar 2001       08-05-2012, 4:33 PM Reply   
Seems like it'd probably take at least a few grand to get it up to par. Add in another $600-$1,000 for a good boat cover. Seeing the boat in that condition I'd bet maintenance was neglected as well. Hammer him down on price if you want a project or wait til you find something something nicer.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-05-2012, 4:45 PM Reply   
My opinion:

If the boat is in good mechanical shape 10k is so cheap for a useable Vdrive. Sure the seats have some tears and there is some nasty gouges in the fiberglass. For comparison sake the type of tournament boats you find ofr 10k are early to mid 90's mastercraft 190's, ski nautiques, etc..

This boat with tower(by the way that tower is ugly although certainly looks functional), ballast, PP, cover, in good shape(fix the interior, fix the gelcoat) is worth 15-17k.

So look at what it would cost to add/fix those things to see if it makes sense to you. Most likely most if not all vdrives under 20k are going to need some add ons and/or things fixed and/or will have high hours.

Boat purchase price: 10k(assuming you get it for a little less then asking)
gelcoat fix: 1k-1.5K(my guess if done professinionally, if you try and take it on your self might only be a few hundred or you could just say screw it, paint/fill in the keel and do something to the scratch on the side)
interior: 2-3k if you want the entire interior redone or maybe 500-1k if just replace what needs to be.
ballast: 1000(on the cheap side could go as high as 1500 or 2000)
cover: 250(cheap generic one. 900 for an evolution)


So I think if you opay some one to professionally fix the gelcoat, replace the entire interior and add those things you are going to be 14000-15000 into the boat not including tax, license, shipping, etc.. That boat with all that stuff is worth that or maybe even a little more. Now, if you are a DIY type guys and install/fix all those things yourself you might only be into it 13000-14000.

I say offer 9k cash and if he doesn't take it go up to 10k. Hell, even at 10.8k you aren't bad off. My biggest reservations would be if the boat has been neglected like that on the exterior has it been neglected mechanically as well. If the boat doesn't check out mechanically I don't think I would touch it.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-05-2012, 4:57 PM Reply   
I forgot the carpet. unless it is ripped up or has holes I would just shampoo crap out of it. If that doesn't work I can't imagine it would cost too much to do yourself as long as it is doable. I have seen some where the carpet was put in before the deck/seats where put in and that could be a problem.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-06-2012, 9:19 AM Reply   
Thanks for the opinions guys. For 14-15k i might be looking elsewhere but still gonna take a look at it. Im sure a little bindo-glass and gel coat could fix that keel gash up decent but just dont know about all the other stuff and yeah that tower is FUGLY! Lol. Plus stereo and ballast and all that stuff, may have to give a low offer on it but hes rejected offers up to 9k i believe my friend said...

I did find this today though. sanger V210 for $14k asking.



Not a huge fan of the color scheme or the brown on the interior... The guy says it needs a little interior work but is good otherwise. May take a look at that one when im in the area too
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-06-2012, 9:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth101 View Post
Thanks for the opinions guys. For 14-15k i might be looking elsewhere but still gonna take a look at it. Im sure a little bindo-glass and gel coat could fix that keel gash up decent but just dont know about all the other stuff and yeah that tower is FUGLY! Lol. Plus stereo and ballast and all that stuff, may have to give a low offer on it but hes rejected offers up to 9k i believe my friend said...

I did find this today though. sanger V210 for $14k asking.



Not a huge fan of the color scheme or the brown on the interior... The guy says it needs a little interior work but is good otherwise. May take a look at that one when im in the area too
Well, that boat has a proven wake and doesn't require much weight to get it. One of the most fuel effiecient wakeboard boats of all time. From what it sounds like it is probably the best handling of any wakeboard boat as well. Good rough water ride, solid construction, etc.. That one has the Black scorpion 330hp motor which is nice, not because it needs teh extra hp but because the sunpad is flatter. Not a huge fan of the tower but it is better then the one on the supreme. I don't think that interior is Brown, at least not originally. I think it is insanely faded. My guess is that boat was left out in the sun almost all the time and the interior is completely shot. Mayeb not though. Does it have PP, ballast, etc? If not it will need those things. I would lean towards the Sanger if it doesn't need a bunch of gelcoat work like the Supreme.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-06-2012, 9:57 AM Reply   
LOL at the guys criticizing the towers of these boats, those are the CLASSIC designs of the era... that sanger looks fine!

RE: The damaged keel of the supreme, does it leak? I wouldn't put that boat in the water with the glass exposed like that, hydraulic pressure can be nuts and if worked on right/hit in the correct area it could peel a substantial amount of gel/glass right off the bottom of the boat, that needs to be ground back, glass added in and re-gelled or painted properly. I wouldn't anticipate that costing a lot, but you have got to do it right.

Also, regards to the supreme being worth 15-17 if it was mint... EH, thats not the premier boat of the era I don't think, you can get 95/96 super sports with tower, auto ballast, perfect pass for 16-20. That being said, I wouldn't buy it for 10 thinking I could put 4 into it and make money in the end... in the end you might get your money back, you might break even, you might not...
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-07-2012, 11:10 PM Reply   
Yeah the tower on the supreme isnt very pretty but the sanger isnt bad. Better than the tower i have on my current boat lol!
SO im going to check out the supreme tomorrow. Definitely not going to be taking the boat in the water with the keel like that so i cant even ride behind it or see the wake :-/. Anything else i should take a look at in detail? He is the second owner. Think if i even want it its gonna be a low offer cause i had found one before that was a 2001 with a nicer tower, speakers, lights all that jazz for 14k asking and it was in good coniditioin.... I really wanna check out the sanger but its a little farther away and wont have time . If i find any other things worth posting i will post pics tomorrow after i check it out
Old    Benjamin Oates (Bolo)      Join Date: May 2011       08-08-2012, 7:13 AM Reply   
I would take a look at that Sanger. Much better boat.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-08-2012, 3:28 PM Reply   
So i just looked at the boat. The seller was VERY nice. Didnt really find anything else from the pictures except more tears in the vinyl, wobbly hatches, dead gas spring, etc. the biggest thing was the keel. I person, its not as bad as that pic makes it look. From what i saw it was ground past the gel coat and was starting to scuff off the first layer of glass. A little dremeling, bondo glass, sand, gel coat, and id do the whole area that is scuffed on the keel. The big scratch on the left side is maybe 1 or 2mm deep and could really feel it with my finger nail. There were a few decent size chunks of gel coat like below the tower base where he tried to remove the tower for storage by himself, up by the bow where the wind screen base dloses, rear right by the boat guides. Deent amount of scratches but then again its a 15 year old boat. The carpet liveable, a few stains (looks like bleached or just super worn) and such. The stereo didnt turn on, blown fuse maybe? It had a nice boston/kenwood stereo, my bed is the head unit fried. The depth finder didnt work, the right speedometer didnt work because the tubing had separated from the speed sensors at the back of the boat so he had the tube tied off. Seemed loke an easy fix. He said the boat hasnt been taken out much the last few seasons cause his kids are gone. He is the 2nd owner for the last 7 years and has only put maybe 200 hours on it. I told him id run some numbers on gel coat and vinyl repair before i made an offer (i had a ford focus as my rental car anyways so couldnt haul it away...). The engine fired right up and sounded great. I told him about the 2001 v210 medalist i found for 14k in excellent condition and he seemed kinda surprised it was only 4k more than his......

Any opinions?? He has another guy coming to look at it so i told him to let him see it cause id like the boat but dont have to have it today. Gonna ake some tlc but i think its toally doable plus i have a friend who does gel coat
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-08-2012, 9:11 PM Reply   
Anyone? Should I forget about this boat and see if i can get something else this winter?
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-08-2012, 10:03 PM Reply   
Sounds like a lot of things are wrong with it. IF it is in good mechanical shape though you really don't have much to lose. the boat is going to be worth about 10k regardless. If you can fix the gelcoat decently, clean the crap out of it and fix a couple little things you probably wont' have much more then you paid into it and it might be worth 12k or so. The only way you end up in a bad situation is if the engine or transmission take a crap.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-09-2012, 5:02 AM Reply   
I say pass, sounds like a lot of things are wrong with it. If a boat 4 years newer is worth 14k in a sellers eyes, and this guy wants 10.7, and it needs atleast 2... the market might be going lower. I wouldn't say its a BAD deal, but I wouldn't be into buying a used boat to take another hit on depreciation/worth. Buy a used boat you know you can sell so when you want a new one, you can get rid of it easy...

In the end it all comes down to what you think it's worth, go in there with the money YOU want to pay. Everyone says the used boat market has tightened up in recent years and prices have gone up, demand up, that may be true, but the economy is still down and its still a buyers market and I like to play hardball, if you can't get it for what you want to pay and someone else is willing to pay more, I say wait, you'll find your gem
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-09-2012, 8:07 AM Reply   
Thanks guys i may offer like $8.5 just to see what he says lol. But he even knows that i dont have to have that boat so i can walk from it and not feel bad. I just knew that for that price i HAD to go take a look at it ya know. Plus
Ike i said he has another guy coming to look at it and told him if it sells, then it sells and oh well.
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-09-2012, 8:40 AM Reply   
My advice is the same... but if you like it, and you are willing to spend 8500-9000, contact him and ask him if he sold it. If he didn't, I saw this line on another thread and I think it would be useful, ask him if the other guy made an offer. If no, ask him if he is ready to sell, if he says yes, then name your price. If he says no then say, let me know when you're ready. He'll either hold to sell, or may come back when he doesn't get any bites.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-09-2012, 10:03 AM Reply   
If you could buy that boat for 8.5K I think that is a great deal. In my area up here that is unheard of. I paid $9,500 for a 1997 DD open bow that is pretty much mint and thought I got a great deal.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-09-2012, 11:48 AM Reply   
Yeah I mean I can do most the repair myself or for cheap. It did feel a little deeper than the sanger inside, BUT I have no idea if the wake is crap and not sure I'd want to take it in the water with the keel like tha for a test ride. It's only down to the first layer of glass but still... I mean I could just drive it for a bit at a not so fast speed and then take it to a shop to get checked out I guess. Has anyone ever ridden behind a boat like this one and can tell about the wake? I can't find any pics of the wake from this boat
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-09-2012, 12:50 PM Reply   
Ask the owner if you can take it for a test drive! If he says yes, its not your problem if it delaminates, if he says no, tell him you want him to fix the keel so it doesn't delam and you want a test drive.

I would never buy used without a test drive, starting it up on the trailer doesn't give you a real impression to how the engine actually runs... What color was the oil, transmission fluid?
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-09-2012, 7:08 PM Reply   
The oil was fine, he had it serviced last month and he had it in the water a couple times after. I forgot to check tranny fluid cause I got in to a rush cause I got a call from the boss and had to high tail it to the airport to head home. Just emailed him again with a few things plus to see if the boat sold or not. He mentioned his neighbor or friend has done gel coat before and he said he should have had him do it for cheap so maybe I can work that in to the deal.

Thank again for all your input guys. Much appreciated. And if I went for a test run, would it e bad to do a quick bondo-glass job on the keel since it cures so fast?
Old    Jay T. (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       08-09-2012, 7:15 PM Reply   
Ask the seller how long it's been like that.If he's been running with it like that for awhile one more run shouldn't matter.Tell him if it looks different after you check it out on the water no deal.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-09-2012, 7:54 PM Reply   
I am betting that boat has been running like that for a while. One more run isn't going to hurt it. Plus if it does you can just walk.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-09-2012, 8:35 PM Reply   
Ok so he says he will throw in the gel coat fix with the sale for me. So is just have to do the keel and the interior is my bet unless his friend did the keel at the same time as gel coat. Problem is now I'm home and can't make it down there for work so it would be an 8 or 9 hour drive. Guess if I'm serious though it's no problem. I hate making offers over the phone though so that kinda sucks. I may make an offer and make a 2 day trip and check out another boat on the same trip if I find one. I just wish I could find pics of the wake when the boat is loaded up. I was planning on 2 400lb v drive sacks, a 700lb locker sack and a 400lb bow sack all plumbed and auto. That about what an old sky supreme has?
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-11-2012, 12:03 PM Reply   
Well i just made an offer and gave estimates of why the price. Guess i will see what happens. If it doesnt happen then oh well, ill see more deals this fall it would be a fun project cause i like that sort of stuff but i dont HAVE to have that boat. If it doesnt take then i will check out that sanger and i found a 96 vlx in excellent shape with tower for 15k and there usually is a sanger or 2 that pop up for good deals in the fall
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-13-2012, 6:14 PM Reply   
OK so I got an email saying we could possibly have a deal. He told me he rejected 8500 so I offered him 9k as is and 9.2 with a gel coat repair which he said he could have a friend do (some auto body specialist friend of his). I sent him this list of defects I found when he asked my price:
-gel coat repair: >$500
-keel fiberglass repair: >$300
-replace all hinges: ~$200
-carpet replacement/repair: ~$400
-no boat cover: ~$500
-interior vinyl repair: >$500
-stereo head unit inoperative: ~/>$200
-depth unit inoperative: ~$100
-right speedometer inoperative: ~$100
-trailer boat guide pad replacements/ right guide post wobbly: $200

Sound about right?

He wrote back saying he wanted to get at least 9.6 and that he could do these himself;

""""What will it take for you to come up to this mark? You have $3200.00 worth of things that need to be done on the boat. Some are easy and I can take care of them.

-gel coat repair: >$500 (Are these the scratches and dings?)

-replace all hinges: ~$200

-stereo head unit inoperative: ~/>$200

-trailer boat guide pad replacements/ right guide post wobbly: $200

These are the things I know I can take care of! ($1,100.00)


-possible interior wood work repair (wobbly/flexing panels): >$200

-depth unit inoperative: ~$100

-right speedometer inoperative: ~$100

These are the things I may be able to do! ($400.00)"""

Figure I could do the stereo and a couple others myself cause i would have replaced them anyways, and of course we are going to take a lake run and take it to the shop to get a pre-buy inspection. Good deal if I gave 9.6?? The motor turns out to be the carbureted 265hp mercruiser engine i believe. I want to take my fat sacs with me (only 750lbs :-\ ) and see the wake when its loaded up, wish i had more weight like what i want to put in it. Any pointers to look out for on a test run? Figure run it for a while and check for fluid leaks besides the handling and wake of the boat. Thanks in advance guys
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-13-2012, 6:54 PM Reply   
At almost 10 grand, are you really going to walk away over $400? Especially when he is offering to fix issues? I wouldn't.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-13-2012, 8:34 PM Reply   
I think your numbers are conservative. Let him fix it and give him the 9.6K
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-14-2012, 6:10 AM Reply   
That keel needs special attention. Fix it right that way if you bump it it won't implode, it'll handle additional stress for years to come
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-15-2012, 8:31 AM Reply   
so here's the deal we made. He is accepting the 9.6 with most of that stuff repaired. Pending the pre-buy and the test ride it will be mine if i like it. He is going to have the gel coat repaired and possibly the keel but I'm going to take my fiberglass equipment with me in case the keel still needs patching (can do it pretty quick minus a gel coat), gauges repaired/replaced, stereo & electrical looked at to name the big ones. I'm going to go down a day early and go check out that sanger during the same trip and see if i can take it for a test run and stuff. Probably going to go with the supreme mainly for the price of a possibly good running V drive under 10k. ALSO, i think im going to order all the fat sacs I was going to install in whichever boat i bought so I can see the wake in both of these boats. Here's what I was thinking;
V drive sacks
http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-v-drive-sacs.html
Locker sack
http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-rear-seat-sac.html
Integrated bow sack
http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-i...d-bow-sac.html

Going to make them all auto once I get whichever boat i decide on. This a good system?
ALSO does anyone live around the northern SF bay area (santa rosa area)?? need to find a good boat shop to get this thing in to for a pre-buy

Last edited by Matth101; 08-15-2012 at 8:38 AM.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-15-2012, 6:10 PM Reply   
anybody? ALSO: I couldn't remember so I asked the guy, and he said there is NO SKI LOCKER IN THE FLOOR. What does this mean about an auto ballast system? Would I have to cut in to the floor and fab a hard tank if i wanted a mid-ship ballast?? Or have people made their own ski lockers?? Don't really think the 2 v drive sacks and a bow sack would be enough and i was hoping to not have to put sacks all over the floor.....
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-15-2012, 7:16 PM Reply   
With no ski locker in the walk way you have a couple options. You could do a bow integrated sack plus some lead. You might only be able to get 250 or 300 in the integrated bo sack so might have to do 500 in lead. You could do a triangle bow sack that goes above the seats. It wouldnt' be as clean but would work. The more and more I hear about this boat the more I think you should walk away from it.
Old    Eric Silva (getssum)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-16-2012, 9:03 AM Reply   
My Supreme V220 doesn't have any center ballast either. However I can almost guarantee that you'll be pulling up your floor (few screws, it's easy) and replacing your steering cable as I'm sure it's never been done. When the floor is out you can put some Lead Wakes bags in there. Done deal. Plus, Supreme USUALLY has larger gas tanks than most, and this will also give you more weight when full. I don't think you'd want to cut in a ski locker door as there probably isn't much room in there. If you needed to you could cut in a small opening, like the ones' most Malibus come with to access their center drain, and you could take the lead bags in/out from there.

Honestly, I really, really wouldn't worry about center ballast in this boat, I've never missed not having it in my boat. Unless you are Mr. Pro wakeboarder and NEED a huge wake to have fun, but in that case you'd be looking at pricier boats I'm sure.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-22-2012, 2:58 PM Reply   
Hey guys thanks for the reply's. Really scratching my head now about this boat just from everything you all have told me. But here's the updated deal. He says he may give it to me for 9k because he is out of town for a couple weeks and cant get the boat in to get the gel coat repaired BUT he did have the few inop gauges repaired and a few other things. I've been practicing my gel-coat repair skills on my old Blue Water and think I can manage that task myself if it came down to it (luckily the gel coat with the gold metal flake didnt have scrapes or that would be a little more tricky...). That keel gouge I can totally do on my own and can make it pretty unnoticeable once I get my gel coat skills down. Carpet I can do this winter, and my parents know somebody who repairs vinyl and leather that I could use for a possible bargain and have only the torn interior sections replaced.

The thing that is really pushing me towards this boat is THE PRICE OF A V DRIVE and that I can turn it in to an old school "Sky Supreme" with a little elbow grease and a few more bucks. BBUUUTTTT with fall approaching, I just really don't know what is going to be out there deal-wise. I would love a Sanger V210 but the more money I can save, the more I can put towards purchasing a house down the road and stuff like that ya know. Theres a Sanger for $13.5 with no tower and really no options that i found, and theres one close to me for $19.5!!

ERIC AND BRETT: Would it make sense that when I have the floor out to check steering cable to take a look at how much room is down there and maybe put in a small hatch like Eric mentioned if theres enough room to put a center sack?
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-22-2012, 3:32 PM Reply   
I just don't think you are going to beat that price. For that matter get close to it.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       08-28-2012, 10:53 PM Reply   
ok so i may be heading down on friday to possibly close the deal on this thing. If the boat checks out with the mechanics and i like how it rides and the wake (i don't need world class, but not totally crappy), then it's probably going to be mine! Going to be a long ass day if i can't get out of here until friday morning with work and all. Gonna make an appointment with the (i think only...) boat shop around where this boat is (unless anyone here is from Santa Rosa, CA area) so hopefully they can fit us in.
QUESTION: What all should I have the mechanics inspect during the pre-buy? This is my first boat I've (almost) purchased myself and looking for pointers on this. I know that there are other better boats out there but I just don't think I can touch one for a price like this and with some ballast i think this boat may do ok for me
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-29-2012, 6:37 AM Reply   
Compression/leak down test of cylinders. Look for cracked hoses, loose fittings, check oil, tranny fluids fresh, particles etc... plug into the ecm and verify hours if it is fuel injected? Should be able to I think...
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-06-2012, 9:55 AM Reply   
Well, never made it down to see the boat cause of schedule mismatch and now I'm on vacation :P. here's a new dilemma though... Another Sanger v210 popped up on cl. 1998, Asking 13k, 770 hours on engine, newer interior, excellent gel coat, never beached, but NO black scorpion. Wondering if he'd take 12 for it....



Is the sun deck on the non black scorpion v210 really sloped? The new sanger I sat in had a HUGE bulge back there and I really wasn't a fan.
I always hate second guessing on stuff like this cause I've been dealing with the other boat for over a month and came to a deal ya know. I can get that boat looking good for a little cash but this Sanger is already good to go.... Anyone have experience with both of these boats??
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-06-2012, 10:09 AM Reply   
Personally I would much rather do that V210 you just posted. Looks nice and clean plus the new vinyl is a huge positive in it's favor. The boat doesn't need the black scorpion. Does if have the mag mpi 315hp motor? As for the hump. Only you can make that decision. You can see how much it is sloped in the picture. Definately more then a black scorpion V210 but it isn't like a huge hump in an old jetboat I don't think.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-06-2012, 11:23 AM Reply   
Yeah I'm thinking that too. If I did the supreme I could possibly do spot-repair on the vinyl for not too much, and the gel coat and keel repair for cost of gel coat and carpet for probably $400, but still needs cover, ballast and tower speakers at the least. Looks like the sanger already has all that.
As for the motor, the guys ad said it had a 305hp merc engine. Don't know much more than that yet. The guy actually emailed me from a wanted ad I posted so maybe he is anxious to sell. Gonna call him today
Old    Delta Force (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       09-06-2012, 11:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth101 View Post
Yeah I'm thinking that too. If I did the supreme I could possibly do spot-repair on the vinyl for not too much, and the gel coat and keel repair for cost of gel coat and carpet for probably $400, but still needs cover, ballast and tower speakers at the least. Looks like the sanger already has all that.
As for the motor, the guys ad said it had a 305hp merc engine. Don't know much more than that yet. The guy actually emailed me from a wanted ad I posted so maybe he is anxious to sell. Gonna call him today
I'd say that Sanger is more proven hull and better deal at 13 than the smoked supreme for 9.6. Get the sanger for 12, should be no problem.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-06-2012, 11:33 AM Reply   
That Sanger is ten times the boat/deal, no question.. Don't even think about that other POS for anything near the same price point. Proven wake, proven quality, less work/repairs and was obviously taken care of where the other one was not. This is a no brainer. Even at $13k - it's a lot of boat for the money.

Prop the 305hp motor right and it will be fine pulling 2k in ballast out of the hole.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-06-2012, 11:56 AM Reply   
Thanks for the input guys. I just talked to the seller. He says he's selling the boat because he has only used it a few times the last few seasons and his kids are too young to use it. It has never touched the beach, and the gel coat is almost flawless in his words. It does NOT have a cover but he says it's always kept in his heated garage when not in use. It is services every season regardless of the amount of use and he and his brother are the original owners. Told him I'd come take a look when I'm back from vacation.

Do the v210s get swamped easily with such low freeboard?? And I'm not much in to surfing behind a boat but how is the surf wake? (for rough days on the lake...)
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-06-2012, 12:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matth101 View Post
Thanks for the input guys. I just talked to the seller. He says he's selling the boat because he has only used it a few times the last few seasons and his kids are too young to use it. It has never touched the beach, and the gel coat is almost flawless in his words. It does NOT have a cover but he says it's always kept in his heated garage when not in use. It is services every season regardless of the amount of use and he and his brother are the original owners. Told him I'd come take a look when I'm back from vacation.

Do the v210s get swamped easily with such low freeboard?? And I'm not much in to surfing behind a boat but how is the surf wake? (for rough days on the lake...)
I was lookign at buying a V210 a few years ago and although I never got into one from what the people on here said the boat doesn't swamp that easy, at least over the bow. Naturally the boat sits bow high. Even with a good amount of weight up front the bow isn't crazy low. The entire boat has pretty low freeboard though So I suppose it may be easier to take a wave over the side but that seems like it would be pretty hard to do. As for surf wake, I think I have heard people say it is ok but it is just tough to get a ton of weight in it to really get a great surf wave because of the low freeboard. The hull shape should surf well but I again I think it is limited because of the low freeboard which doesn't allow you to get a bunch of weight in there.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-06-2012, 12:01 PM Reply   
HEre is a good picture showing how high the bow normally sits.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-06-2012, 12:05 PM Reply   
If you end up with a V210 here is a good thread on setting up the ballast. It also has a couple good pics of Darren Yearsley's V210.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=787626
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-14-2012, 11:06 PM Reply   
Ok, i really hate the fall because it causes dilemma's. So I also found a 95 Nautique Super Sport at the very edge of my budget. It's down the block from where I am now so i went and checked it out
http://eugene.craigslist.org/boa/3249424177.html
Not a fan of the single axle trailer and the interior needs work. Not as many rips as the Supreme but theres more fading from sun damage. Heres some pics.
I'd post pics but photobucket doesn't like my pictures for whatever stupid reason.
When I saw the boat, It obviously hadn't been out in a while and the guy said it had been over 3 weeks since he had it on the lake. The interior had a lot of sun damage and had some fading. It also had some tears in a few of seams of the upholstery, but no cuts like in the supreme. Could probably be fixed with a good scrub of the vinyl and a good color match and vinyl paint for the fading and maybe some stitching for the busted seams.
The gel coat was in good condition. The only real defects were some chunks out of the rub rail
The swim platform was faded but that can be fixed easily with some teak oil and some sanding.
The boat has been serviced every season. I can't remember if the owner has owned it for 2 or 3 seasons. He said he bought it and put some money in to it as a fixer upper but when i asked he said the only thing that needed fixing according to the mechanic was an exhaust manifold or something and it was an easy fix.
The bimini is in excellent condition if it matters.
I didn't have him start it up because his very young kids came over asking why he was selling the boat and then they got their little mob of neighborhood kids to swarm him with whiney questions so i had to bail after i got all my questions answered but he said the engine runs like a tank. Its the GT-40 motor.

I hate this because I know that I can match the vinyl colors if i got a hold of the right paint colors and could fix the fades myself, but the hull of the boat is the infamous Super Air Nautique if i put some auto ballast in it. So the dilemma is: Sanger V210 with good paint and new interior and 700 hours on Mercury 305HP engine, OOOORRRR Super sport with fixer upper interior for 16K ASKING!!

Oh, and the guy said he's selling because they had some big medical bills come up and need to sell. NADA says average condition is around $14k but do I do a separate value for the trailer? This one I could probably save $700 because there's no sales tax in Oregon. Maybe I could offer $14k cash....
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-15-2012, 5:43 AM Reply   
Maybe your state is different, but in mine (Ohio) you get taxed from the county you register it, not where you bought it, as boats are a titled item.

That Nautique looks very rough for 16k.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 6:13 AM Reply   
No Tax probably means no Tax. here in MN there is also no tax on private party sales. But they do tax the value of the trailer since it rides on the road. So if that is the case get a seperate bill of sale for the $500 trailer, if you catch my drift.

As for the boat I agree it agree it looks a bit rough for the money. I think it would have to be mint for the year to be worth that. Especially this time of year that far north. The Super Sport is a tougher sell than a SAN. With that said I wouldn't back away from it. Thats a good wakeboat and for the right price will probably serve you well. But ride that boat before you buy it. Every kid and 20 year old on here wants a SAN, but I'm creeping up on 40 and that wake is just too hard and vertical for me. As people call it "like hitting a curb". I love to ride one once in a while because it's a great wake, but my body would never take owning one and riding it all the time. But I'm old and broken too!! LOL
Old    Boarder 42 (jhartt3)      Join Date: Jan 2012       09-15-2012, 6:48 AM Reply   
Why buy a SAN when you could get a super sport and put all the bells and whistles of a SAN on it? Not trying to start an arguement. But if you can find a Super sport for 5k less than the SAN, odds are it wasn't sac'd all the time. with a SAN you know its had ballast b/c its built in so why not run it. Just a question any thoughts?
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 7:20 AM Reply   
I think you have a great point, Jess. I didn't say to buy a SAN. What I said was a SS was a tougher sell than a SAN at least around here. People that use sights like WW are very well informed about the sport and the boats we use. We are the exception. So resale to the average consumer can be tougher because they don't know they are the same boat.

I have often wondered the same thing though. As in how much tougher it is on the boat to be running all the weight and lower than efficient cruising speed. Basically the boat is barging all the time. It would be cool to see a study done on this compared to a boat that is mostly run light and at cruising speed most of it's life.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-15-2012, 7:22 AM Reply   
I am pretty sure if you buy the boat in oregon you will have to pay the sales tax on the boat when you register it back in cali.
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 7:31 AM Reply   
You are correct. Just had that question in my accounting income tax class last week. If you are a California resident and you plan to register it there what the laws are where you buy the boat does not matter. So if California says sales tax they will charge you tax regardless of where you buy of you are a California resident. Just like if you buy from a dealer in Nevada. You do not have to pay Nevada state tax at the dealer. You pay tax when you register in California. Asked that specific question because I was thinking of buying a new boat in Missouri when i live in Minnesota.

But what we don't know is where the OP lives. If he lives in Oregon and buys there=no tax. If he lives in Cali and buys in Oregon=Cali sales tax.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 9:10 AM Reply   
hhmm it appears i have Cali as my home state. WHOOPS. Im from OR. Sorry fellas. How much do you think this boat is worth in this condition?
Finally got my photos to work so here ya go.









Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 9:29 AM Reply   
I wouldn't even make an offer. That vinyl looks shot. Those stains will not come out. It is everywhere. Plus it's probably mold, which can be a hazard. I've bought boats with bad vinyl and it's always more expensive than you think and you don't get the money back. If thats how the vinyl was taken care of the rest is probably the same. I've been burned on vinyl and just really don't like to deal with it. Good vinyl guys up here are tough to come by and don't work cheap. I'm a mechanic and would rather deal with something I can fix for the cost of parts. If you do vinyl, maybe then. Like someone told me on a similar post I put up about a used boat..."you only saw half of the bad". If you really want it consider it a project and I wouldn't even pay low book, especially this time of year.

Then again not to be a jerk, but if the guy truly has medical bill problems(so many lie about why they are selling) maybe you can low ball on the thing. So if Average condition is 14K it would have to be way lower. That is a low book boat all day every day, from your pictures. Unless I'm missing something the best offer would have to be at or below low book. So considering most people negotiate back and forth I would start below low book and not go a dollar over.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-15-2012, 11:05 AM Reply   
that boat looks like crap. Not as bad as the Supreme but not good at all. Why is there so much room between cushions? Did they somehow shrink? Don't worry about the sales tax. Even if you buy a boat in cali or washington you won't pay sales tax since the sales tax is paid when registering the boat and they don't have sales tax in oregon.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-15-2012, 11:33 AM Reply   
Thanks Todd and Brett. Kinda what I was thinking. What I was trying to get at was if the interior work was worth a low price because of the Super Sport hull. Low NADA on the boat with the options is about $12.6k and if that were the case I'd probably be better off going with the Sanger which is flawless and needs nothing. That interior if it needs replacing would put me well over my budget especially if im just going to winterize it at the end of the month.
I hear ya on the wake too from what it sounds like. The super steep wakes just aren't what I like. I like them rampy with some pop but not the ones that feel like you hit a curb and get tossed in the air. What i DID like about it was how roomy it was and it probably has a higher freeboard and can handle more weight in the back for occasional surfing. Probably gonna tell the guy thanks but no thanks. Thanks for the input everyone! Gonna check on that Sanger and see if it's still available
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-03-2012, 2:05 AM Reply   
Hey everyone. Thought I'd throw an update out there. The other boat sold but I still wanted to check this Supreme out on the water. So I drove all the way down to the bay area to take a test run. I actually liked the boat. It felt good inside (besides cosmetics) and it drove nice. The wake looked like it could be pretty nice with some weight. I didn't have a chance to ride behind it cause there was no observer and didn't come prepared (i drive most the time anyways). I drove at different speeds and looked at wake shape and it was between rampy and steep with just the fuel in the tank. Drove it around for a bit and checked the fluids which looked fine. The steering cable felt like it could be replaced like Eric said earlier. Had the boat taken to a mechanic and the engine compressions came back great and the v drive was in good condition. Took a look at a few things like that damn keel (which will be no problem to fix), and a couple little things, I paced around for a minute and decided I wanted to give this boat a shot so I drove it home for less than $9k.
I brought it home and the first thing I did was give it a nice wipe down and brought out my buffer!!! It shined right up with some good rubbing compound!! Gave the interior a good scrub down and besides the rear deck and the green in the bow, the interior vinyl really isn't bad. I've ordered some new-old-stock Kicker KMT6 tower speakers, a rockford amp to power them and my sub when i install it, and a tower wire harness. The boat already has Boston 6x9's in the boat with a 75x4 amp on them. I've taken the boat to the upholstery shop and I have ordered my replacement carpet so after I get all of this stuff put in with my own elbow grease (before auto ballast) I'll be in to this boat for less than $11k. Going to take it out on Friday and put all my current sacks in it to check out how it performs so I'll post pics
This is obviously going to be my winter project so I will make a thread when i start working on it.
First up: Moving the batteries! They're back under the bench and I want to move them up under the passenger seat. Got to go price this out and start right away on that.
ALSO: I'm going to be adding another seat so I can have the FULL wrap around in this thing. What's the best type of wood to use on this?? Just pressure treated plywood and coated with lacquer or something??
Stay tuned. Pics to follow in a few days 8-)
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-03-2012, 8:58 AM Reply   
Cool. I am interested in seeing your project thread and see the progress you make. Did the previous owner fix the gelcoat or are you doing that?
Old    RB (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-03-2012, 10:50 AM Reply   
Congrats, man. Sounds like you bought it right. Should be a fun project.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-03-2012, 11:33 AM Reply   
Thanks for all the help and input guys. Really appreciate it! I think this boat will be a good starter v drive and a fun project to help me procrastinate other stuff this winter . Stoked to take it out this week. I'll post my verdict and pics while I'm out there!
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-08-2012, 6:29 PM Reply   
Hey guys real quick. Took the boat out the other day for the first time since I've owned it.

Didn't have much weight, gas or people in it maybe 500lbs mid ship fat sacks 3 people and like 12 gallons of gas.

Didn't get any pics of my buddy or myself riding but the wake was maybe knee high at 20mph. Figure with some weight in the rear lockers itll help it steepen a little.

Brett, forgot to answer you. Im fixing the gel coat myself. I gave it a shot this weekend but forgot to take pics and its dark out now. It was a perfect match when i put it on and when it dried, but after wet sanding it lightened a little. STILL it looks a ton better than it did with the previous owner!!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-08-2012, 6:51 PM Reply   
Awesome that you got it out. The wake looks really clean. I bet the keel looks much better. Now that winter is coming you will have some time to really get into the projects. Keep posting some pics of the projects you do. It is fun to see someone revitalize a boat. Definately looks like the vinyl could use some redoing but I suppose it is usable.
Old    Matt (Matth101)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-08-2012, 6:58 PM Reply   
Yup. Ive already gotten it quoted. That back rest is toast. It is so brittle that I've put a couple more tears in it already from climbing on the sun deck. It will be replaced as well as the green up on the bow. The engine covers may be salvageable from a local guy i met with for not that much money.
And YES the keel has at least been patched up already!! IT TOOK ME A WHOLE 30 MINUTES TO MAKE IT NOT AS UGLY!! A ton of the stuff that the guy let go on for years took me maybe an hour to fix u (leaking speedometer hose, replaced speedometer pitots, etc etc...)
I put in a new cd deck and the amp for my system just showed up so i'll probably go start on that and get my project thread going Glad you like the wake Brett, stay tuned. Hopefully gona make this a decent boat!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       10-08-2012, 7:31 PM Reply   
Looking at the picture at the beginning of the thread that shows the transom the hull looks to be very similar to the supreme V220. From what I can tell the V220 is probably the best pure wakeboard hull that Supreme has made. Looking through some old threads some think the wake is similar is shape to the OG SAN's. If that is the case you may want to figure out some bow ballast. If it was me I would probably work on plumbing in 750 pound sacks on each side of the engine and a bow integrated sack although the bow integrated sack might only add 200-300. I would also look at adding another pump and fill line to fill a triangle bow sack, 750 or some other large sack that can fit in the bow or in the walk way. Another option might be to get some lead that you can stuff under the bow seats. Basically I would try and figure out a way to get about 1500 pounds total in the rear and another 1000-1500 in the bow.

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