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Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-06-2012, 10:48 AM Reply   
The 2012 Wake Surf Nationals have got me thinking about the future of Competitive Surf Style wakesurf boards.


Quote:
Frank Wolter (wofrankwo) Join Date: Jul 2009 Today, 7:55 AM Reply Quick Reply
wow all 3 surf style boards are basically twins!!
Quote:
Jeff Walker (surfdad) Join Date: Sep 2004 Today, 8:21 AM Reply Quick Reply

@ Frank - yeah those Nubsters as trailers are pretty small. Keenan talked about running his as a five fin like Slater, using more traditional quad trailers in lieu of the Nubsters, and then the single Nubster in the back.
Is this the death of traditional quads in competitive wakesurfing?

It seems that board design and fin set ups are changing to keep up with the new tricks. To place in the top 3 you have to have shuvs and bigspins now and traditional quads and thruster wont allow that.
Do you think people that love the feel of quads or thrusters will use them strictly for freeriding since thats what they have the most fun on, but then compete with a new style nubster board?

Kind of like how ocean surfers ride a ton of different shapes freeriding like fishs and other concept boards for fun, but then in comps ride the standard thruster

I was talking with some people about this over the weekend and it is interesting to me. Basically to be competitive you are forced to ride a certain style of board (in competition), even if you prefer one shape/set up of board over the other.

On a side note, I rode a "performance" longboard wakesurf board this weekend from Mendonesia and fell in love. Its obviously not going to allow people to podium in competitions, but it made me think more about how people may have a quiver of boards based on what they enjoy riding but then have their separate comp boards.
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-06-2012, 12:13 PM Reply   
Personally I think it's a shame that Competetive Wake Surf " Surf Style" has evolved to its present state. I believe the scoring system has totally dictated this in what board to ride and how to ride it!!
I see it as a Skim Contest with fins ..... if the scoring doesn't change then future competitors would basically ride Skim Style Boards all the time until the events and then add fins to their boards to compete on ..... this would make riding a thruster or quad obsolete for Competitions!!

Changes need to be made!!

I believe the first change should be the scoring: The Best Rider Should Win Always!! But if a rider should choose to ride a thruster, quad, or long board they "realistically" can't win!! I believe a rider should be able to ride whatever board they choose to ride and have an equall chance to win!! The only way this can happen is if the scoring becomes Completely Subjective!! I see no exception to this and if someone can .... please share their views!! If a skim board wins the Surf Style Comp that is okay as long as the quads, thrusters, and longboards have an equall chance to win as well!!

I think that is the first change that needs to be made!!! If people do not like Skim Style winning the Surf Style Comps then maybe you would have to start defining Skim and Surf Style Boards. A minimum of 3 large fins or whatever ..... maybe another class that would be true ocean surf style .... that I believe should be a future debate after the scoring is changed!!

If Surf Style Competition does not change from its current course then there will be a " Fracturing " of the Sport Guaranteed!! There are many people who would prefer to see a true ocean surf style riding behind the boat and have it be rewarded in Competition!!

The Future of the Sport will evolve and any and all resources used towards opposite goals would be a complete waste in regards to a strong and healthy and growing sport!!

Ocean Surfing is a World Wide Phenomenom that is about Style and Flow and if The WakeSurfing Industry chooses to turn its back to this then the Door will be wide open for a Change!!
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-06-2012, 12:30 PM Reply   
I started this topic with more interest in the future of board design used in Pro Surf Style competitions, and not so much on the judging. That to me is a whole other topic/can of worms haha.

But you mentioned skim and surf style mixing. Do you think the board shapes (for competition) will eventually become more of a hybrid of the two styles so that every trick is possible, while the larger selection of board shapes (that specialize in certain areas, but not all) will be reserved for freeriding only?
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-06-2012, 1:04 PM Reply   
Sorry Mitch I saw your post in a different light!! The pure mention of a hybrid board to me makes me think that both styles should be Combined!! Separate the Two or Combine the Two!!

I think the non Competetive side of WakeSurfing will always be easily defined In the Skim and Surf Style ...... a hybrid board will allow a Surf Style rider to do more on their board in terms of tricks and maneuvers and will definitely have a place in the sport!!

I was very fortunate to meet Dennis and Jeff when I first got into this sport ..... they gave me a huge yellow board to ride that allowed me to surf behind a boat. My two kids took this board and had a blast riding it!! They rode it tandem together and were doing lipslides on it and they had a ball the entire time they both rode it .... my daughter took it a step further and rode the board herself and she had classic longboard style on it ..... from the back to the nose throwing it around it was amazing!! I posted pics of this and wondered why my kids seemed to be the only ones that enjoyed this type of riding and this was 3 yrs ago ..... last year we borrowed the board again and my kids rode tandem on Rollins Lake and every boat out there stopped and looked ..... seeing 2 kids riding a board behind a boat with no rope!!

The sport is so flipping fun that I would like to see all riders get a chance to ride all the different styles out there ..... skim ..... surf .... hybrid ..... longboard .... and anything else that someone comes up with that can be ridden!!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-06-2012, 1:54 PM Reply   
Amy rides a 6'6 nose rider from TWP, she just likes that board. I think she just feels comfortable, since the first board she rode was that big yellow thing that frank is talking about. Anyway, he is learning to hot dog, and having a blast riding it a lot. I will have to post some pics and vid, pretty fun.
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-07-2012, 9:26 AM Reply   
In all honesty I see nothing dramatic here. You have a traditional McKee style quad, with additional canard fins (Chase's board); a typical convertible 5-fin board; and a 'twinzer config'. These are all normal and seen everyday. The real differences are Chase's board is a proto -type so he is testing different layout to see what he likes and because nubster style fins are widely available now in most standard fin box/plug types. So Keenan and Chase are taking a look at them. Not to mention, Kelly Slater, jumped these fins back into the lime light. The cool thing here is that Bird decided to do something fun with Keenan's outline, going away from a traditional curve style and instead giving the board a very full upper mid section with an attenuated nose, and then a really pulled in lower 1/2-2/3rds.

As for point systems, I agree it will kill comp wakesurfing. The sport is moving backwards and has been for awhile. Every kid out there thinks they are the **** and should be sponsored. They actually call themselves Pros. Wow, you won a division a competing against 3-4 other competitors... that take talent or just pure luck.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-07-2012, 10:22 AM Reply   
Nick, do you think a person riding a traditional quad or thruster (no nubsters) could get on a podium in the Pro Surf division?
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-07-2012, 1:05 PM Reply   
Nick's new double haul quad is a game changer. I really think he has created something special with it. Fast, loose and doesn't like to pearl. I have never ridden anything faster. I really hope he continues to make this board.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-07-2012, 6:18 PM Reply   
That sounds like a fun board to try, the Mendonesia board we just had out had those characteristics, RJ loved it, and chris was killing it.
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-09-2012, 9:30 AM Reply   
Mitch, direct to your question.... yes with no doubt. It is not the board but the rider. the board only enhances the riders skills (well when designed around the riders style). A good rider can adapt to any board. And, a truly competitive rider will work within the parameters of a scoring system to get the most points. There are countless arguments why a point system might be bad, but you can argue the proponent side pretty clearly as well. Unfortunately, the current system is way too focused on skim versus surf. Frankly, I consider one wake surfing and one wake skimming. If the sport is moving aggressively towards above the lip maneuvers, then so be it. Those riders/board designers promoting hybrid styles recognized it last year and adapted over the year.
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-12-2012, 12:46 PM Reply   
@chaos: do you consider the most iconic figure world wide in the sport and reigning world champion " seemingly " has had to alter his board selection and riding style ........ " as progression of the sport "?
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-13-2012, 1:56 PM Reply   
No, he has changed his board selection because he changed companies, and they do not want to build anything that would be considered similar to what he use to ride, unlike countless others have done. They are trying to come up with something different, and they are still working on it. And, this is good, not only for the rider and other riders, but the sport in general. However, had he ridden his old board, and had he been riding like he was last year, he probably would have won the 'nationals'. He is not currently riding to his potential in my opinion. The below link to a video is an example of some of the best wakesurfing ever to date.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAMyzNdgWX4
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-13-2012, 2:59 PM Reply   
I do not come close to your expertise in surf board design ..... I am learning though!! I sure do differ in my opinions though from you and my opinions seem to come from what I see and what I experience!! I sure wish I would have been able to make the trip to Wake The Desert this year and been able to meet you and been able to talk with you ..... might not have been your wishes though LOL!!

Chris will be there Monday and staying the week with the Kinsey's who have graciously taken him into their home for the week again like last year!! The Kinsey's are as awesome a Family as there is and I am sad I will only get to see them once this year!!
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-13-2012, 4:28 PM Reply   
Certainly, Frank. I would have liked to meet you as well. As you know we wish Chris the best, and hope he enjoys his new ride. Believe me, I wish you no ill will. You remember early on when we had the whole discussion on politics in and around the sport and the various different camps, etc.... I guess the thing to be clear about, is that I do not play the politics either. I could care less. I just call things how I see them, and try to provide the best advise to people I can.

Maybe I am not understanding your question completely. I don't think I am disagreeing with you. What I see is chase riding a board that he is not entirely comfortable with yet, and it shows in his runs. Overall the board is not a huge departure from what he was riding before, but it does go about a few things a bit differently. As I have said many times, they are starting at the bottom and building up in a way or maybe in reverse, starting with what was learned with wakeboard design and adapting some of it to a surfboard.
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-14-2012, 11:37 PM Reply   
I didn't mean that in any way other then " I would enjoy talking with you but it may not have been your enjoyment to talk to me " LOL!!

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