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Old    Bryce Stevens (SS_Hooke102)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-31-2015, 6:08 PM Reply   
We are considering one of the two and wanted to ask a few questions to those of you with experience with them, primarily concerning engine size. I am an expert/open level rider and run about 4-5 in my xstar at 72.5 ft at about 23.5 mph. Have ridden these (A22-24, past '14 so same hull) and really liked the wake, but didn't know the weight configuration as it was at comp.

1. In the a22 what kind of weight are we talking to get a beefy wake? I know with the 24 it will require a lot more weight because of displacement, but would appreciate a ball park number for either the 22 or 24.

2. What engine size would be optimal? We live at 200 ft above sea level so no elevation issues. I would prefer not to have spend 10,000 plus on an engine upgrade if you know what I mean lol.

3. Any flaws or kinks you all had to work out with them (the boats in general).

4. What ride speed and length are you all riding at?

Thanks so much guys, this is all fairly preliminary, looking to purchase in July, just wanted to do some solid research first. I also am well aware that a lot of this is based in preference and we will be demoing both, but just wanted some ideas to be pondering😝 Thanks again for your input!
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       11-01-2015, 10:47 AM Reply   
I have an a22 and my ballast setup is factory tanks plus PNP. I have sumo 600's in the rear, the sumo 950 bow bag. On top of that, I run the sumo 800 floor sac, sumo 450 bag in the bow, and I have 500lbs of lead spread throughout. With that, I run 24mph and 78-83 foot line. That wake is absolutely massive.

If you plan on running heavy, opt for the 450 engine. I have the ls3 and can plane out in a reasonable time with the 1235 prop. I've tried it with the 2315 prop and it's a night and day difference.

I've had no flaws in my boat, for what we do, it is the perfect setup.

I'd your comp was pulled with the green bro stock a24, they run 900's in the rear with the sumo bow bag. I also think they run lead, but not sure how much.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-01-2015, 12:09 PM Reply   
1. I do not know for sure that the A24 will need more than the A22. I have an '11 A22 with the 335 motor. No wedge, sumo 900's in rear completely full (I pulled my hard tanks out, before I had the 750's on top of the 200 hard but the 750's did not fill all the way, the 900's all the way full are def more weight than the 750 over the hard tanks), 600 lbs of lead in the bow, sumo mushroom sack under front seats. Wake is excellent, ride that at 23 ish at 75-80. If i have only a couple people I will throw the sumo floor sack 800 lbs on the floor, I ride that at 23.5 at 78'. (I have recently moved my lead out of the bow and plumbed and extra 750 bow sack on top of the bow seats but I have not ridden it yet... it looked incredible from the boat. My wake is as big as my buddies G21 (stock plus 400 lead), shaped similar, just has a little longer transition than his G. With the 2315 prop, I have no issues getting on plane at my 1200-1400 ft. elevation.
As for the A24, I rode a 2014 a24 a couple times. Def my favorite wake I have ever ridden. Stock full, 900 sumo's in the rears, 750 bow sack under seats, no wedge, and a little bit of lead. Rode it at 23.5 at 75' and it was insane. This boat has the 450, but it got up like there was almost no weight in it. great great wake. You can't go wrong either way.

2. If you want to run wedge with all that weight than the 335 or 350 won't do it on my A22. But I do not run wedge, just 3800-4800 lbs ballast. The new Axis' have the new gear reduction so you can run the smaller motors.... A22 i would stick with the small motor, A24, maybe go with the 400.

3. I had a couple issues, minor, but it is to be expected with any boat/manufacturer. It has been a great boat.

4. 23-24 at 73-82 is where it is at.
Old    Bryce Stevens (SS_Hooke102)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-01-2015, 12:32 PM Reply   
Thanks for all the information guys! It's a huge help!
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       11-01-2015, 7:09 PM Reply   
The 450 is a great motor. I don't hesitate to recommend it.

As a base setup for ballast, defacto nailed it. Sumo 900s with hard tanks removed and an extra bow sac or lead up front to supplement. Then load the boat with crew or extra sacs in the cabin until you can't plane.
Old    Evan Core (ecore)      Join Date: Jul 2014       11-01-2015, 7:29 PM Reply   
Everyone one says that the the new gear ratios on the axis is better however I beg to differ as my boat(15 a22) with torque prop (2313) struggles to plane with stock hard tanks, 800s in the rear and bow horse shoe bag. Not a chance I would plane with the wedge. Like am I the only one with this problem?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-02-2015, 12:36 PM Reply   
Evan, I also have a 15 A22 with the 350 motor. The 800s in the rear is too much. Although the main issue is that you're not running enough weight in the bow. In addition to the front PNP bag, you're going to need another 500 to 800 pounds in the walk-through / bow if you want those 800s to plane out. The A22 likes a lot of nose weight - you can't run it stern heavy. That will also make your wake very wide for wakeboarding.

Are you boarding or surfing?

I run stock + wedge + PNP 450s in the rear and the front PNP bag, 500 in lead in the walk through, and a few hundred in lead scattered around the cabin near the driver and observer storage area. Wakeboarding wake is big and we plane easily. I never surf.

Last edited by jarrod; 11-02-2015 at 12:37 PM. Reason: typo
Old    Evan Core (ecore)      Join Date: Jul 2014       11-02-2015, 1:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Evan, I also have a 15 A22 with the 350 motor. The 800s in the rear is too much. Although the main issue is that you're not running enough weight in the bow. In addition to the front PNP bag, you're going to need another 500 to 800 pounds in the walk-through / bow if you want those 800s to plane out. The A22 likes a lot of nose weight - you can't run it stern heavy. That will also make your wake very wide for wakeboarding.

Are you boarding or surfing?

I run stock + wedge + PNP 450s in the rear and the front PNP bag, 500 in lead in the walk through, and a few hundred in lead scattered around the cabin near the driver and observer storage area. Wakeboarding wake is big and we plane easily. I never surf.
Yes for wakeboarding I run a similar set up to you. Stock ballast +wedge +about 400-500lbs in the rear (I fill the rear bags until the bow and centre hard tank are full) +bow bag. I don't run any additional ballast in the bow but I will try that next season. When I first got the boat I did the 800s in the rear and no wedge but the planning became an issue so I had to change it up.
Old    Jason W (Medium)      Join Date: Aug 2011       11-02-2015, 5:15 PM Reply   
On my 15' A22 I'm running full tanks, wedge, pnp 600s in the rear, pnp 500 bow sac, a 400 sac in the bow walk way, and a 400 sac on the floor. At 23.4 mph and 75 ft the wake is legit and I have no issues planing with a 410hp motor and 2419 prop
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-02-2015, 6:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
Evan, I also have a 15 A22 with the 350 motor. The 800s in the rear is too much. Although the main issue is that you're not running enough weight in the bow. In addition to the front PNP bag, you're going to need another 500 to 800 pounds in the walk-through / bow if you want those 800s to plane out. The A22 likes a lot of nose weight - you can't run it stern heavy. That will also make your wake very wide for wakeboarding.

Are you boarding or surfing?

I run stock + wedge + PNP 450s in the rear and the front PNP bag, 500 in lead in the walk through, and a few hundred in lead scattered around the cabin near the driver and observer storage area. Wakeboarding wake is big and we plane easily. I never surf.
Sumo 450s?
Old    r33pwrd            11-03-2015, 7:18 AM Reply   
Name:  uploadfromtaptalk1446563764263.jpg
Views: 781
Size:  77.2 KB my A24 can take all kinds of ballast.. I have the 1100s in the rear corners plus pnp in the front. This was for surfing... I have the 409 hp motor. For wakeboard we don't run the extra sacks on the floor and drain the rears a bit.
Old    r33pwrd            11-03-2015, 7:25 AM Reply   
But there is a local guy who had a a24 running like 7k lbs for wakeboarding with the 450 motor.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-03-2015, 7:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevev210 View Post
Sumo 450s?

Yes.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-03-2015, 8:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecore View Post
Everyone one says that the the new gear ratios on the axis is better however I beg to differ as my boat(15 a22) with torque prop (2313) struggles to plane with stock hard tanks, 800s in the rear and bow horse shoe bag. Not a chance I would plane with the wedge. Like am I the only one with this problem?
I agree with the "more bow weight" advice. Axis really needs a lot of bow weight. Once you go above stock ballast, stock plug n play with 450's in the rear lockers, then you really have to start going bow heavy. If you use the tower mount locations as the "center" of the boat and then make sure you are as close to 50-50 front and rear weight distribution as possible, you will be able to maximize the amount of weight you can put in her, and your wake will get a lot more firm than you are experiencing now. Even if it doesn't get bigger, it will get harder, which will make it feel like it is bigger because of how much more pop you will get.

I have the same prop (almost, 2315) in my 2011 A22 with the 335 CATS motor with the normal gear ratio at 1400' elevation. I run 1000 actual lbs in each locker (sumo 900's filled all the way, no hard tanks), 600 lbs lead mid ship, 950 sumo arrow sack under front seats, 750 sumo horse shoe sack on top of seats, plus the center tank full. So I probably have in the neighborhood of 4500 lbs of ballast (assuming my bow sack under the seats is only about 600 actual lbs) to your 3000-3200 lbs (assuming your 800's fill completely full and you are getting 500-700 lbs out of your bow horseshoe if it is under the seats). You cannot add the wedge to your set up, but with a few hundred lbs in the bow, you should easily plane with the 800's completely full. Cheap way to find out is throw 2 adults in the bow, as far forward as you can. Make sure every other passenger is front/back neutral, midship, right at where your tower mounts to the boat. See if you can plane like that. If so, add that much weight to the bow and you are golden.

Last edited by johnny_defacto; 11-03-2015 at 8:50 AM.
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       11-03-2015, 9:32 AM Reply   
You guys really only run 450s? I am running sumo 900s and running them almost full in the A20. I run a bow bag on top of the front seats, but that's only like 250-300 lbs. No Wedge.

Wake is BOMB for a 20 foot boat.

Stock 335 motor, Acme 2079 14.5"x12" prop

Last edited by boardjnky4; 11-03-2015 at 9:35 AM.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       11-03-2015, 10:19 AM Reply   
If your running the stock rear tanks, the sumo 600's are they way to go. Sure you can put a 750 or 900, but they won't fit any more water.

I used to have a 600 on one side and a 900 on the other. with both bags filled until the overflowed, the boat sat perfectly level. The 600 already fills the whole compartment.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-03-2015, 10:24 AM Reply   
No Wedge. - That's why.

It's not apples to apples of course. The A22 is a heavier boat and there are several other factors such as water mineral density, depth, and temp.

In the early spring when the water was cold we ran 750s in the rear with the wedge. As the water grew warmer every week we filled them less and less until we finally downgraded to 450s.
Old    Jay Simmo (JayManAR)      Join Date: Dec 2012       11-03-2015, 10:38 AM Reply   
I'm running the standard 350 motor in my '15 A22 with acme 1235 and have been very happy with the setup.

Surfs great with full stock, 750s in the rear, extra 400 in bow, extra 400 in cabin, wedge down.

Wakeboard setup is full stock, rear 750s filled about 1/2 way, keep the extra 400 in bow, no wedge. Gets on plane pretty quick.

We can still cruise to our ride spots without having to sacrifice too much top speed. I don't really care about top speed but don't want to hit the rev limiter when cruising at 28-30mph either..

Capacity for the bow bag seems to be even less than the arrow bag I had in my '13. We always keep an extra 400 up there at the very least.

Elevation, whether you prefer the wedge while wakeboarding, and average crew size will make all the difference when it comes to getting on plane with the stock motor. I've been in an A24 with standard 350 and acme 2313 and was very impressed with how it performed. Add 8 adults or some elevation though and I might be telling you a different story..
Old    Tom (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       11-03-2015, 10:54 AM Reply   
Does anyone else's Axis prop-walk with wedge and a bunch of rear ballast?

If I load my boat up AND run wedge, I get some pretty gnarly prop walk that makes the port wake look quite different from the starboard wake. Pretty sure it's just a result of too much weight in the rear of the boat. I've seen an A24 do the same.

Last edited by boardjnky4; 11-03-2015 at 10:57 AM.
Old    Jay Simmo (JayManAR)      Join Date: Dec 2012       11-03-2015, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Does anyone else's Axis prop-walk with wedge and a bunch of rear ballast?

If I load my boat up AND run wedge, I get some pretty gnarly prop walk that makes the port wake look quite different from the starboard wake. Pretty sure it's just a result of too much weight in the rear of the boat. I've seen an A24 do the same.

Agree that it's likely too much rear weight or too much weight in general for too low of a speed. I get off balance from side to side sometimes and use a brick sack to help clean things up, but other than that scenario it has been super easy to dial in.
Old    Evan Core (ecore)      Join Date: Jul 2014       11-03-2015, 11:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
In the early spring when the water was cold we ran 750s in the rear with the wedge. As the water grew warmer every week we filled them less and less until we finally downgraded to 450s.
That would make sense as I felt when I first got my boat (May) it planned out with the 800lbs in the rear, bow bag and no additional weight in the bow. But once summer hit it slowly started to take longer for it to plan out and therefore I had to change the setup.

Last edited by ecore; 11-03-2015 at 11:34 AM.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-03-2015, 11:37 AM Reply   
Yup. That starts to happen when running the boat heavy at low speeds. My learning environment is 20.8 at 65 feet with the boat slammed pretty heavy. When I'm hucking new stuff with this setup the prop wash on the port side makes the wake looked washed out.

I played around with the ballast and wedge and finally reached the conclusion that it was actually caused by a port side chine. I looked under the swim platform while underway and could see the chine routing water straight to the port side wake. At higher speeds the routed water stays to the inside of the port wake so it's not an issue.

I dislike the large rooster tail more. It makes photography a bitch sometimes.
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-03-2015, 5:53 PM Reply   
Got some interesting news from Axis, I wonder if this is for just the 2016 A20 or all Axis boats.

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Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       11-03-2015, 7:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevev210 View Post
Got some interesting news from Axis, I wonder if this is for just the 2016 A20 or all Axis boats.

Attachment 40096

Driver compensation?
Old    Steve Amestoy (stevev210)      Join Date: Feb 2005       11-03-2015, 7:13 PM Reply   
This was the response when I asked why the rear tanks are different
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Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-03-2015, 7:16 PM Reply   
I pulled both my rear tanks out of my 2011 A22, they were Identical when placed side by side... but I was just eye balling it so one may be less than the other. Walter over at the Axis forum http://www.axiswakeboardboats.com pulled his as well. He measured both tanks and i think he calculated that they only hold 170 lbs each, not 200 as stated.

And KX250rider is correct. If you are running the hard tanks, the sumo 600's are the way to go. I had 750's and I did a side by side test of a 750 and 600, they were the same actual weight. The 600 is able to fill completely and not put much pressure on anything in the locker. I am sure putting an 1100 in there, like the surfers do, will net you more than the 600, but for wakeboarding it is perfect. Pull the hard tanks and throw a sumo 900 (actual weight almost 1000 lbs) and now you are talking....

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