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Old                08-16-2003, 6:26 PM Reply   
I've tried this about 50 times and this is the result every single time. NEED SOME HELP BECAUSE MY BODY IS TIRED OF THIS PARTICULAR FALL.

http://www.wakepics.com/media.php?newest=true&time=1061083479&limit=10
Old                08-16-2003, 6:31 PM Reply   
There is a second video attached to this link - I dont know who it is - Mine is the first one (the one doing the backroll - fitting for the topic)
Old    Dave Knecht (obrienride16)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-16-2003, 8:19 PM Reply   
everything looks good to me, but i cant tell whether or not you are spotting the landing. i was having the same problem, they would be big and id get so close, then one day i really focused on making sure i knew where i was in the rotation, and after doing that i few times i started hitting them pretty consistently. now i just need to stop injuring myself and i'd be set.
Old    Dave Knecht (obrienride16)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-16-2003, 8:22 PM Reply   
actually after watching it again, you might want to try landing on your edge a little more, it looks like you are too parallel to the path of the boat and falling back. if you land a little more perpendicular to the boat and lean against the pull of the line, you might be able to stick it.
Old                08-17-2003, 8:57 AM Reply   
Try keeping both hands on the rope. That sometimes helps me.
Old                08-17-2003, 10:09 AM Reply   
Jay, thanks but 50% of the time I do keep both hands on the rope and the result is the same crash - EVERY SINGLE TIME. Sometimes I get confused as to which backroll I am looking at on video b/c they all look the same. I am so close, it has to be something simple.
Old    Randy Murray (wakeripper)      Join Date: Oct 2002       08-17-2003, 9:40 PM Reply   
I could be wrong Jim but it looks like you are flattening out your board just before the top of the wake and trying to pump the wake and you have plenty of height it just looks like you are rotating just a hair slow because you are not edging all the way through the wake I am not sure why you are letting your arm off the handle but it will not help you rotate fast enough.You should remeber to keep the handle in tight because this is you axis point. I think this is probably a great question for Bill J since he is the Zen Master.

On a side note where in the river was that taken?
Old                08-18-2003, 8:46 AM Reply   
Randy - What is "pumping" the wake - I have never heard of that term before.

That particular clip was what happens all of the time whether or not I have two hands on the handle or not. I have noticed from studying my video that when I land w/two hands on the handle the board is sometimes perpendicular to the boat which is not good either. I just cant seem to get the handle back behind my hip enough to straighten the board. Dropping my back hand is something I started to get the board landing in the right direction. I know the trade off is rotation but usually I get around regardless. Sometimes I land a little bit on the tail of the board and sometimes not. I do consistantly fall on my butt however. I am going to work on really spotting my landing this weekend - maybe that will help.

I dont know who Bill J is but if you could let him know about this clip I would greatly appreciate it.

If it is the video you are asking about it is the Colorado River in Parker Az. If it is the pic on my profile - that was taken in Iraq.
Old                08-18-2003, 8:52 AM Reply   
Randy, If you are familiar with the river in Parker - the vid is by the fire station.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-19-2003, 4:37 PM Reply   
hey jim,

i believe your problem is two-fold, but the main technical reason is this:

- you're not completing your roll.

you may feel like you are, but you're not coming down with your weight over your board. to illustrate, take a look at these two sequences (one done right after the other), of me doing first a successful backroll, albeit low, and then a higher, but non-successful backroll because i don't land with my weight over my board.

if you freeze frame your video you'll see how much like the second one of these it is...

first the successful one:

backroll

see how im landing with my weight over the board? so much so that i slide it quite a bit before recovering.

now the unsuccessful one (which i took higher, but didn't rotate as fast):

backroll_fail

notice how the weight is back and i end up crashing backwards (compare the shoulder position in the 3rd pics of each sequence). this is where having both hands on the handle would help. i probably could have pulled this out if i'd kept my trailing hand on the handle.

the second idea is that i think you're a bit head-tripped by this. you bounced that landing like you weren't ready for it. it's almost as if you don't expect to be able to land.

your form is perfect until you hit the water. you just need to commit a bit more to the roll. as you're coming down you need to get your shoulders a bit more forward. as david said, this is where spotting your landing may help - but if you can do that you're way ahead of me. i've been doing backrolls (albeit inconsistently as you can see from this sequence!), for about a year and i still don't spot the water most times.

good luck! let us know when you get it or if you need more help.

edit=got the descriptions backwards!

(Message edited by deepstructure on August 19, 2003)
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-19-2003, 4:48 PM Reply   
jim, were you the soldier featured in wakeboarding mag? welcome home! glad you didn't go in that canal - tho that would have been really cool. :-)

o.k. just thought of one thing in watching your video again that might help with getting around a bit more.

watch your head as you come off the wake. you neither commit to mexican or regular style. you're not angling your head to look over your lead (left) shoulder, but you're not throwing your head down mexican style. it's kinda in the middle. i think if you look more over your left shoulder after you come off the wake you'll finish that rotation.

(Message edited by deepstructure on August 19, 2003)
Old                08-19-2003, 7:40 PM Reply   
Jim, if you're truly consistent with this fall, then I think the answer is pretty simple. You're catching that back edge because your board is too parallel with the wake. Also, you may not be weighted properly on the landing.

First, try to point the board just a hair more towards the shoreline. The landing is identical to any hs w2w jump... you need to continue edging away from the boat when you hit the water. I think this will fix it entirely. (p.s. keeping the rear hand on will help you do this).

If that doesn't do the trick, maybe combine that with a little more wieght over your board versus sitting back. But I don't think this is the problem... you look like you've nailed the body position in my opinion.

Oh yeah... once last thought. Bend those legs big time to absorb the landing!! Exagerating it could help solve this too.

(Message edited by wakingup on August 19, 2003)
Old                08-20-2003, 9:33 AM Reply   
Thanks both Chris and WakingUp for the effort you have put into helping me accomplish a successful backroll. I have taken notes in my notebook that I have started since learning of this website and will work on board direction, spotting landings, weight over the board, and keeping both hands on the handle this weekend. Chris, I have never heard of regular or Mexican style - what are they?

Also, Chris, you were correct, that was me in the Wakeboard magazine article and it is good to be home. I have hair now so I look much less like a hatchet murderer. haha. It was disappointing to be so close to great water without being able to get in it.

Thanks,

Jim
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-20-2003, 9:40 AM Reply   
jim, mexican style is a backroll done by throwing your head down instead of looking back over your lead shoulder. it's why people think the backroll is a hs front roll because you literally do a front roll as you come off the wake. tyler does a perfect example of it in this video:

http://www.wakeworld.com/news/2003/balfour2.asp

it's the rotation used for backrolls to blind, double backs, etc.
Old                08-20-2003, 5:52 PM Reply   
Chris - I am not sure which roll you were talking about in the video but I watched it many times and was motivated as he*% to get out on the water and finally nail this move.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-20-2003, 6:07 PM Reply   
jim,

it's almost 3/4 of the way through. perry is right before it (in a white rash guard, blue shorts and a liquid force board), doing a bs 3. right after that tyler (long-haired kid), does the mexican. that section has a pink/red tinge to it. tyler's trick starts at 2:29 in.

pretty great video eh?

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