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Old    Paul (txaggie929)      Join Date: May 2011       06-17-2011, 7:08 AM Reply   
Ok, I have yet to fill the ballast on my new 2011 23V, as it only has less than 8 hrs on it. So, figured I'd try just filling up 1/4 tanks on both rear ballasts last weekend. Right rear works fine, but the left is dead. The light comes on at the gauge panel, but no water is pumping in and I don't hear the pump running, and when turned to the empty mode, I don't hear a pump running either.

Anybody had the same problem? Haven't really had a chance to dig around and find the fuse box or the actual pump itself, so thought I'd see if anybody could shed some light to save me some time tonight trying to source the prob.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       06-17-2011, 7:38 AM Reply   
We had this problem on our Axis at one point last year. The valve on the pump and accidentally been turned to closed by the shop when they were adjusting the length of the ballast lines on our PnP system. So that is where I would start. Make sure the valve is turned to open. I was about to lose it on the lake that day until I opened the engine cover and saw what the issue was. Spent 30 mintues cussing up a storm and half a second fixing the problem when I finally figured out what was wrong.
Old    Paul (txaggie929)      Join Date: May 2011       06-17-2011, 7:48 AM Reply   
Ok, I'll be sure to check that while I'm digging around tonight, thanks for the tip.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-17-2011, 8:47 AM Reply   
The fill pumps on the Epic are on the transom (if you didn't already know) and I don't think there are any valves on them.
Old    Paul (txaggie929)      Join Date: May 2011       06-17-2011, 9:17 AM Reply   
Yeah, I saw the three intakes on the transom, just haven't had time to start tracing stuff down. Just don't know how much of a b!tch it's gonna be to get to the pump itself....
Old    ScottRobinson            06-17-2011, 9:31 AM Reply   
Yeah the 3 pumps on on the transom like Tim said. I am not aware of any valves or shut offs on them. Hope you find out the issue. My 2011 never had any issues with them.

BTW the new 2012s don't have any pumps on them anywhere....all gravity filled and emptied. Fills and empties in about 2 minutes. Pretty sweet.
Old    Paul (txaggie929)      Join Date: May 2011       06-17-2011, 9:45 AM Reply   
Just gotta keep rubbing in how much better your boat is, don't ya Scott?! LOL!

Yeah, hope I find the problem too, because I sure as hell don't want to have to drag this thing 60 miles across dense traffic to the closest Epic dealer to get it fixed.
Old    ScottRobinson            06-17-2011, 10:21 AM Reply   
HA.... honestly there are some thing in the 12s I don't like....Where you at Paul? I don't have a dealership anywhere near me at all.
Old    Paul (txaggie929)      Join Date: May 2011       06-17-2011, 2:59 PM Reply   
I'm in a suburb in north east Ft. Worth, TX. Closest dealer is in Plano, TX, which is the complete ass opposite north end of Dallas from me. The next closest dealer is in Grandbury which is even farther away.
Old    Fred Anderson (pilsner31)      Join Date: Sep 2009       06-17-2011, 5:06 PM Reply   
Sounds like it might be a loose or bad connection. It sounds like the switch is working if the light is on. You can double check this by making sure you have 12 volts to ground on either side of the switch. You need a multi meter for this and to be on the dc volts setting (the one with straight lines not the wavey line). If you have 12 volts going out of the switch then you should have the same at the pump to ground. You have to touch bare wire (obviously) at the pump, so this might mean you'll have to cut the wire and re-connect. Just make sure you're re-connect is waterproof (heatshrink or silicone will work after a crimp-on connection). I know its not a blown fuse or your light on the switch wouldn't come on. Hope this doesn't insult you're intelligence but I'm an electrician, and have found you can't be too obvious in explaining things. Let me know what you find.
Old    Paul (txaggie929)      Join Date: May 2011       06-17-2011, 10:33 PM Reply   
Well, I found that its a royal PITA to even try to get to the pumps - you have to pull the entire exhaust system to do that. Double checked all my electrical connections at the switch and will give it a whirl (literally) tomorrow. I was by myself at the house, so kinda hard to try and listen for those little things from 10 ft away.

If it still doesn't work, I'll take it in for warranty. If in fact a pump is fried, I'd rather them deal with replacing it.
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-20-2011, 11:40 AM Reply   
I think you can pull the side access panels in the lockers to access the pumps from under/around your exhaust?

When testing pumps, lift your engine cover, rear lockers and pull the access panels, this should help you hear them easier, if you're by yourself.

Try switching your wires from one switch to the next to diagnose a failed switch. i.e.- front pump works, switch the wiring from right switch to front switch. I will assume loose connection before failed pumps, since your fill and empty both don't work, the chances of you having 2 brand new pumps fail out of the box is pretty slim.

My easy way to test for power to an accessory is to get a test light that I can stab through the shielding and see if I have power. Looks like an ice pick with a led and wire with an alligator clip. the clip is typically for the ground but can work to detect a good ground or a power source. My last resort is to check the voltage and cutting wires only to resplice them.
Old    Paul (txaggie929)      Join Date: May 2011       06-20-2011, 12:36 PM Reply   
Yeah, I pulled the side access panels, and it helps , but they are so far down in the back of the transom that you can barely reach them with a couple fingers without removing the exhaust. I had the access doors and everything open to hear them, but with wind and noise in the backyard from surrounding neighbors it is still difficult to hear those quiet things.

Didn't get to test it this weekend as we wound up with 20-25 mph winds all weekend, which woulda made for some really crappy riding both on board or boat. Resorted to going out with my buddy on his Baja that handles big chop no problem.
Old    ICE-a (usostyle)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-01-2012, 7:15 AM Reply   
fellas- hope everyones summers are in going well! last night, it appears my port side 'drain' pump has gone bad. It's not a rocker switch issue, I swapped things at the switches and all is well with switches and fuses. I had to trailer it and drive home with the port side ballast tank about 3/4 full...

A couple questions-

1. Do you know where the drain pumps are for the two rear ballast tanks are physically located? How to get to them?

2. Is there anyway to manually drain our rear ballast tanks? I dont think there is, but thought I would ask...

thanks in advance for any help you can provide guys!
Old    Nicolas Kohler (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-01-2012, 12:45 PM Reply   
@ice - they are on near the lowest point of the end of the ballast tank - so the the drain pump for the right ballast tank would be close to the right side of engine (or if we look at the right ballast tank then it would be close to the left rear side of the tank) - hard to reach but usually not as hard as the fill pumps (you can trace them also by following the drain line but anyway). The front is just behind the clear access window in your cooler compartment - just in case).

No there's no way to empty them manually (except see later)- not sure if Epic was using the attwood 1200 gph pumps - I usually kept one spare in my boat - just in case. They work like cartridges - so look them up - easy to hook them in if one fails on the water. Now if the one fails while the tank is full - then you better make darn sure that your bilge pump is working ... because if you take the cartridge out - it will flood your bilge and if that pump isn't working - you're in for a surprise ;-). If it's on the trailer - then just jack it up so it will empty thru the drain plug in the back as well via the bilge pump while doing it - so you'll be fine - will just take while ;-)

If you get one of those pumps - they are color coded - the 1200 gph has a black ring, the 800gph is red and I think the 500gph is blue. They are usually cheaper when you buy them with the pump enclosure - not just the cartridge but that also gives you a 'training' tool to know where to press when you try to do it blind in the bilge ;-) One thing - they are really hard to break - you can run them dry for I don't know how frigging long and they don't burn out.
Old    ICE-a (usostyle)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-01-2012, 9:04 PM Reply   
Nicolas-
Thanks for the info!....So I went out today to start to dig around and look for the pumps as you outlined above. Just for safe keeping, I hit the drain switch and wouldn't you know it...the pump fired right up and pumped 1000-ish lbs of water right out? Wonder if I have a bad electrical connection to the pump? I am going to keep my eye on it over the next few weeks and see if I can find any kind of pattern of when it happens and what seems to make it start working again. Hopefully, this was just a one-off glicth and wont have to deal with it again...

Thanks again for your help!
Old    Nicolas Kohler (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-02-2012, 4:27 AM Reply   
np - haven't done much ;-) but to say one more thing. If they have given out b/c of a poor connection it will give out again. My first Epic was an 07 and everything seemed to be fine until I put the fresh air exhaust on and touched/pushed wires to the side at time ... after that the pumps went all bonkers. Back then I didn't bother myself and had someone looking at pretty much ALL connections - just in case. 800 bucks later and numerous poor connections redone etc. the boat was running perfectly and no electrical issues anymore. if you take the cartridge out then you'll also have a better chance of fixing the connections at the pump itself and you usually can hear them better ;-)
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-02-2012, 4:58 AM Reply   
I've had mine since 07. I ran into similar issues but cycled the pump on/off and it worked fine. I don't think it was mentioned but if this does happen again, locate that pump, remove your locker wall look into bilge and you should see your drain pump sticking out the tank. Remove the cartridge and drain the tank into the bilge, either let your bilge pump handle it on the water or the drain plug handle it on the trailer.
Old    ICE-a (usostyle)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-02-2012, 7:46 AM Reply   
@ Nicolas- Now that you mention it, earlier in the same day that my pumps started acting funky, I was messing with the electrical wires back there trying to get my Sony transom remote to work/respond. The remote would power up and display worked, but none of the buttons (volume, track skip, etc.) would respond. I got the remote to work again, headed to the lake and that is when I started having the pump issues...chasing electrical issues on a boat are not fun or cheap (your $800 fix)...thanks again for the info!

@ Fred- Thanks Fred, based off of my issue probably being electrical wire related, I have a feeling that I will be utilizing your advice. I am hoping I wont have to resort to pulling the cartridge to manually drain, but I have a feeling I may be in the near future. thanks for the info!

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