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Old    John Theis (JT_Supra24SSV)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-13-2012, 6:26 AM Reply   
After years behind a Chapparral I/O, I have finally upgraded to a big boy toy. 2006 Supra 24SSV GG Edition with the Indmar 340hp.

Loving it! Except...

The factory installed PP 6.5g Wakeboard Pro system doesn't hold when in Wakeboard mode. Traded a bunch of emails with PP support but still haven't quite resolved. Here's what's up:
- RPM mode holds nearly perfectly (+/- 40 RPM)
- Wakeboard mode cruising or pulling 2 tubes w/ empty ballast holds within .2 mph
- Wakeboard mode with ballast's ~50% full and pulling a boarder is terrible. Constantly up/down +/- 4 mph
- boat speedomoter calibrated to match my phone's GPS app. PP speedo reads +2 mph up until about 25mph, then reads lower than actual once boat reaches about 30 mph. By the time boat reaches 46mph, PP speedo reads mid-30's
- paddlewheel on hull intact and spins freely
- replaced the spring that pulls back servo cable (although I think old spring was fine)
- lubed the cable (though it moved pretty freely)
- verified no sharp bends or rubbing or obstructions in servo and throttle cabling
- all diagnostics of servo and computer match behavior of video/docs provided from PP... except servo wind in sometimes just a touch "jumpy"
- PP display does sometimes appear as though LCD is getting weak (eg. old pixels not cleared off the screen)

Anybody experienced this and have any advice?

One final question... I do notice that the first couple times I use PP, it takes a couple minutes to "dial in" the right speed or rpm after engaging. For example, choose 2800 rpm it will bounce +/- 200 rpm for 30 seconds, then +/- 100 rpm for 30 seconds, then +/- 50 rpm, then be steady. Same with mph in Wakeboard mode (with no ballast or boarder). Guessing this is to be expected and is simply the PP "learning" the boat's current weight setup. Or maybe it has something to do with my issues above? Since I have NO experience with PP, not quite sure what to expect...

Thanks a lot for any input you may have!
john
Old    D (tx_foilhead)      Join Date: Apr 2009       06-13-2012, 7:50 AM Reply   
I'm not sure which motor you have, that was about the time everyone began to switch to the drive by wire throttles. I'm guessing since you mention the spring that yours is not DBW. Doesn't sound like a PP problem, more like a setup issue.

I've always run RPM mode because it works close enough and doesn't surge at all. This winter we played with KDW settings a lot and came up with an acceptable pull with a 175 to 180 setting on that. RPM runs at or below the desired speed, Speed mode runs at to above the set speed most of the time. You need to help it get set in either mode, drive up to your speed and ease back on the throttle so you don't overshoot it, once it beeps and slows down a bit give it some throttle. It needs some more throttle to work with than what you need to use without it to drive that speed. If I turn it off, the boat will always accelerate a couple MPH. (don't try that, I think it jacks up the paddle wheel reading, I have a Stargazer). Once you have those things done then you can start messing with the KDW settings which are basically telling it when and how hard to throttle up when it needs to. This may take a while to get right with a boarder, we foil so not as much of an issue with the rider tiring out while making test cuts. We seemed to have the best luck finding a good setup for the best riders in the crew, and that makes for an acceptable setting for everyone else even though it tends to speed up a little more for them.
Old     (Brendon444)      Join Date: Jul 2011       06-13-2012, 11:02 PM Reply   
46mph??? 24ft boat with only 340hp i would think you have the wrong prop on the boat making it hard to hold speed.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       06-13-2012, 11:22 PM Reply   
That is a great question. What prop do you have?

I had a 08 Moomba XLV with the same motor (Smaller lighter boat, same maunfacturer and same motor) and I never got into the 40's with that boat. 37-38 was the max.

If you don't have the high alt prop you need it for the weight.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-14-2012, 5:42 AM Reply   
You have the wrong prop.

I have that same boat but with the smallest engine and the guy that had it before me had the cursing prop on it. I can't remember the numbers but I look it up when I go home for lunch. Empty it would do pretty good but with 1900 pounds in it. It would be plus or minus 2 or 3 mph, this winter I bought a used a Acme 1847 and now it pulsl 2700 pound almost dead on mabe .2 to .3 off. I'm going to the lake tonight and I'll see what I have my settting on. Also with the new prop I bet i could get away with another 1000 pounds no problems when used have problems getting on plan with just 1900 and a few people.
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-14-2012, 7:51 PM Reply   
The prop I had that didn't work was an OJ 13.7 x 17.5. It was the one that no matter how I set the perfect pass it wouldn't hold speed with ballast in the boat and the more you added the worse it got.
Old    Ronnie Johnson (slidin_out)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-15-2012, 7:35 AM Reply   
put on a new spring, replaced some of the other hardware (L bracket), and all servo, voltage, and linkage tests were fine, have a friend with the same exact boat but a different prop and no problems, last email from PP said to adjust the KDW up to 180 and try that, going to test that out this afternoon, if that doesn't work i'm getting another prop
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-15-2012, 9:32 AM Reply   
you probably already checked this if you've spoken with PP, but check the pins on the plug near the servo. make sure they're all seated inside the plastic housing. i had a problem a couple seasons back and it was due to a pin not being full seated. just a thought, but again you probably already checked this.
Old    Ronnie Johnson (slidin_out)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-15-2012, 9:35 AM Reply   
i will check the pins too, i know they work like a champ but something minor is off on both of our setups apparently
Old    JD (OneMoreSet)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-15-2012, 12:29 PM Reply   
One thing that stands out is your last point that the screen looks kinda dim.
PP always seems to be very battery sensitive. If youre heavy on accessories like heater, ballast, lights or stereo an on the same battery or even a small number this could be your issue - we had issues with this and if we'd crank the sound on the stereo PP performance would noticably suffer - turn it down or lights off it would instantly start working better again.

Also as suggested prop would be huge too in PP being able to hold speed.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-15-2012, 1:50 PM Reply   
it sounds like the prop. You said it holds speed well on speed mode when unweighted towing 2 tubes, so it is working fine. Add a thousand pounds of ballast or more and add a wakeboarder pulling on the boat when cutting in.... on a 24 foot boat with the small motor with a prop that has top speed of 48 mph, wrong prop.

What numbers are on your prop? what numbers on your buddies prop?
Old    Ronnie Johnson (slidin_out)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-15-2012, 2:01 PM Reply   
i'm starting to lean that way myself, like said above it will take a minute to get settled in so to speak and then hold speed well as long as the rider isn't cutting out
Old    Ronnie Johnson (slidin_out)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-16-2012, 8:41 AM Reply   
adjusted the KDW up to 140 and NN down to 80 this morning per PP customer service advice and it acted much better, going to raise the NN to about 120 the next time and see if it gets better than that
Old    John Theis (JT_Supra24SSV)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-18-2012, 6:51 AM Reply   
Thanks everyone!

Checked it out this weekend but didn't have much more luck.

The prop is an OJ 14.25 - so I think it's what folks are suggesting I should have... right? Top speed with 2 adults, 2 kids, and no ballast on smooth water does seem to be 46 - 48 mph according to boat speed (which I previously calibrated to GPS).

I am a little concerned about the "small" motor comments. Having researched the boat quite a bit before buying it, I was understanding it to be the "super duper" Gravity Games Edition supposedly set up for the way top boarders ride so I thought this was going to be a really good setup. Was I misinformed? Seems to have no issues out of the hole, even with 10 people and 50% ballast so maybe I'm just missing the point?

Also, what are the KDW and NN settings being talked about? The PP folks haven't said anything about those...

Thanks again!
Old    Frank Berg (Iceberg)      Join Date: Dec 2011       06-18-2012, 8:46 AM Reply   
I would agree it is possibly the prop pitch. You say it is an OJ 14.25 x ?, or is that the pitch. I have an OJ 14.25x14 and I rev'd out about 34 mph ( I didn't take it to the rev limiter). I bought a cruising prop for my boat as a back-up (14x20). Top speed with new prop is over 45 mph. I have more power than you do (8.1l), so I can put 4,000 lbs of ballast in it, but it is doesn't throw you in the back seat quite as hard when you slam the throttle.

Your SSV transmission ratio is 1.56-1 so a 16 pitch should be OK, but you could go down to a 14.25"x14 pitch if you needed to. A lot of other boats use a 1-1 transmission ratio. They need an even lower pitched propeller.

Last edited by Iceberg; 06-18-2012 at 8:53 AM. Reason: reread last post
Old    BLAIR BARHAM (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-18-2012, 8:49 AM Reply   
KDW and NN are what what you need to check change to help it keep you speed right. One tells the boat how quick to get back on the trottle so yyou don't drop to much speed and the other, I think tell it how many time to check the the speed for correction. They are very important, KDW should bed set on about 180 and NN around 80. Those are good starting point every boat will be alittle diffrent. To adjust those settings, turn the PP off. Then hit the menu and up button at the same time. Hit the menu button to cycle through the menu options. The KDW and NN settings will be there
Old    Frank Berg (Iceberg)      Join Date: Dec 2011       06-19-2012, 5:55 AM Reply   
John,

Your speed does not match your telling us about your propeller. Assuming you redline your Indmar (5200 rpm), the maximum theoretical speed with a 14.25 pitch propeller is 40 mph. When you calculate in a value for drag and you drop to 5000 rpm, the typical value would be about 36 mph. So if you can get over 40 mph for real, then the pitch of the prop is much higher. If that is the case, your PP will struggle with what you are asking it to do with too much weight for the propeller.

FYI, boat speedos are frequently inaccurate when accelerating and turning. The same could be said for GPS versions but to a lesser degree. However, when running straight and stable the GPS is extremely accurate. Your paddlewheel or venturi speedo will be accurate once calibrated. The problem is most are only really accurate at their designed speed. If you are out of the range, you can expect 2-3 mph errors. That is why most new systems run on GPS.

As far as the PP screen contrast goes, the head units from that vintage are not very good. Some portions of the screen are prone to pixilation at higher contrast. When you turn it down, then some portions of the screen are hard to read. I have a similar problem with my multi-function display - it reads very well, except for the first half of the first letter in the top left corner on lower contrast, but if I increase the contrast, most of the screen has streaks running through it. I have the 5" multi-function with the stargazer upgrade.
Old    John Theis (JT_Supra24SSV)      Join Date: Jun 2012       06-20-2012, 7:05 AM Reply   
Thanks everyone.

It's gonna be after the 4th of July before I can get on the water again but you've given me a few things to double check. Prop, speed, kdw, nn, screen settings. I beleive the gps speed and prop info I posted prior are right, but it sounds like several folks with a lot more experience than me question this setup so I need to double-check it all out.

I'll post an update after our next trip - if for no other reason than to help the next guy who gets this same boat setup and has similar issues...

Thanks a ton.
john

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