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Old     (Jape)      Join Date: May 2012       05-28-2012, 11:41 PM Reply   
Hello all, I am new to the forum, and I wanted to know what everyone with more experience thought about these boats. I know they are made by the same company, and wakesetters give you a lot more bells and whistles, but I am curious about the wake. Do these boats have comparable wakes or is one better than the other? in regards to wakesetters, I think I like the mxz, and in regards to axis I believe I like the A22. I would love to hear everyone's input on the subject.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-29-2012, 3:26 AM Reply   
The MXZ is a excellent boat,but it's in a whole different price range than a A22. Both boats make Excellent wakes.Tell us more about what you want out of your boat and what you plan to do with it.
Old    Tory Parke (TParke)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-29-2012, 4:40 AM Reply   
Both boats are excellent, I have only seen an MXZ with stock ballast. The wake was nice and seemed to have a little more lip than the A22. I personally enjoy the A22 wake more but I ride it loaded. If you are going for the wake only save your money and get the A22. I bought my boat for the wake and love the simplicity. With that being said I am a little envious of how nice the MXZ is I just couldn't justify the extra cost.
Old     (Jape)      Join Date: May 2012       05-29-2012, 8:20 AM Reply   
Thank you for all your comments. I personally would use the boat for wakeboarding, tubing,wakesurfing and light entertainment. My fiance on the other hand would use the boat for mostly entertainment....haha. For one she doesn't know how to swim, and she isn't that adventurous. The other part of my question, is would it be better to get a new A22 or a slightly used low hour MXZ, or just new everything. I know boats depreciate a lot.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-29-2012, 9:06 AM Reply   
The interior of the MXZ is quite a bit nicer/higher quality. Better Vinyl, carpet, dash, touchscreens etc... And it will have the power wedge. The A22 however has more rear facing seats. If you have the cash, MXZ, if you are on a budget then the A22.

Isn't it funny how $60k+ is now considered a "budget" boat!
Old    Tory Parke (TParke)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-29-2012, 9:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
The interior of the MXZ is quite a bit nicer/higher quality. Better Vinyl, carpet, dash, touchscreens etc... And it will have the power wedge. The A22 however has more rear facing seats. If you have the cash, MXZ, if you are on a budget then the A22.

Isn't it funny how $60k+ is now considered a "budget" boat!
My thoughts exactly.
Old    Ktrent (ktrent)      Join Date: Jul 2010       05-29-2012, 9:38 AM Reply   
I am thinking it would be hard to find a used MXZ
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-29-2012, 10:24 AM Reply   
Ill be the first to say it...

How bout an MB
Old    Bryan James (bjames)      Join Date: May 2012       05-29-2012, 10:35 AM Reply   
May want to look at Moomba's as well. I had an LSV (2009) and it was a solid boat. You can get a nice one for around $50K
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       05-29-2012, 11:11 AM Reply   
Do you want a monster size wake that you can scare the crap out of yourself with while alos having the time of your life wakeboarding? Do you want to save 30k? Do you want to throw part of that 30k savings into one of the craziest systems for entertaining ever created? If so get the Axis.

Do you want a super plush boat that can also throw an amazing wake and has touch screens and rider presets? Do you want to save gas by having a power wedge? Does your woman love riding in the bow with all her friends? If so get the MXZ.
Old    Scott R (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-29-2012, 11:35 AM Reply   
Simple...seriously dude. Why be that guy?
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-29-2012, 12:14 PM Reply   
For the record when I was pricing them out the A22 and a 23LSV were closer in price then I would have thought. About 1/2 what the Bruizza mentioned.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-29-2012, 12:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottR View Post
Simple...seriously dude. Why be that guy?
Seriously?
I figured the fact that I put it in size 500 font people kind of pick up on the satire... Clearly not...
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-29-2012, 12:57 PM Reply   
Demo both. The wakes are different. Both are nice, but they are different. The MXZ wake is not quite as rampy. It's a little steeper. The MXZ is definitely more plush, and will have more bells and whistles. However, I just spent the weekend with a friend who brought out his '12 LSV. We split time surfing behind his boat and wakeboarding behind mine. Yes, the BU is more plush, but, honestly, I'd rather have my Axis. It's just so much easier to operate IMO, and I love having a rear swooping tower with a z5.

At one point, all of our wifes wanted to take a boat out for some girl time just to chill. Had I had numbers on my boat, we would have let the girls take mine, because it would have been as easy as telling them to turn a key, click the cruise control toggle switch to off, pull up the wedge by hand and flip four big obvious switches to dump the ballast. With the BU, we ended up having to go start the boat for them because it would have taken them forever to figured out what screen to look at and to push the little engine icon, empty the ballast ourselves, because they would not have been able to figure out what to do to dump the ballast, then idle the boat out and raise the power wedge, select the icon to turn off cruise, etc. etc. All that technology is nice, but it does complicate things.

At the end of the day, you just have to figure out what wake you like better, and if the extra tech and creature comforts warrant the extra coin.
Old    kx250frider617            05-29-2012, 1:14 PM Reply   
How bad do you want to cry when the boat starts showing some wear? $100k boat, I would be in tears, but luckily I will most likely never have to experience that
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-29-2012, 1:26 PM Reply   
There will always be a battle between the core budget boat and the higher finish boats. To me it is like comparing a Tahoe and Escalade. Both do about the same core things well, but one has a lot nicer finish out and technology (mainly touch screen). If you can REALLY afford the MXZ and you like it better, go for it.

As for Bruizza comment on hanging a over the top stereo on a budget boat, I actually dont understand that at all. If you are really a budget boat buyer, why would you put a $15K stereo on a $50K boat? Depreciation will be a lot worse on a $15K stereo than it would be on spending an additional $15K on a boat.

As for Chattwake's comment regarding having to help his wife's friends with the Bu, I can understand this. My 244 confuses my wife as well. With that said, if I was more patient and spent more than 2 minutes showing her how it all actually works, I am sure she would pick it up very quickly.

BTW: Both of these boats are great. I only reference the Axis as a budget boat because in this day of crazy boat prices it is considered a budget boat. That does not mean it is not a very nice boat.

Last edited by lakesurfer; 05-29-2012 at 1:29 PM.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-29-2012, 1:42 PM Reply   
unless you are a really good rider, I doubt you will notice the wake difference between the a22 or mxz, and even for the really good riders, if they like one, they will most likely like the other. I am not a really good rider but I know what I like, and I love the malibu/axis wakes, all of them (I have not ridden the mxz, sorry).

You will notice the difference in creature comforts and interior quality. Mxz hands down is way nicer, and if you choose the wall to wall carpet, you will notice a little less engine noise while in the cabin on the MXZ. the axis doesn't have this option, it is snap in carpet over a fiberglass tub/floor just like most other boats.

Like chat said, the a22 is so simple to use, easy to show others how to use it as well. i taught a friend how to set up the ballast and speed control and how to pull a wakeboarding in 2 minutes the other day on my A22.

wake/wave = tie,
exterior fit/finish = tie,
interior fit finish= mxz. very very plush and solid
interior layout = subjective. The axis is adjustable, the mxz is not. depends what you prefer
stock ballast and wedge= mxz. power wedge and 1" ballast hose compared to axis manual wedge and 3/4" hoses
motors = tie.
looks= subjective.
trailer= tie. boat mate dual axle

* tie goes to Axis for being $45K+ cheaper.

demo and decide if the prices are right
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-29-2012, 1:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post
unless you are a really good rider, I doubt you will notice the wake difference between the a22 or mxz, and even for the really good riders, if they like one, they will most likely like the other. I am not a really good rider but I know what I like, and I love the malibu/axis wakes, all of them (I have not ridden the mxz, sorry).

You will notice the difference in creature comforts and interior quality. Mxz hands down is way nicer, and if you choose the wall to wall carpet, you will notice a little less engine noise while in the cabin on the MXZ. the axis doesn't have this option, it is snap in carpet over a fiberglass tub/floor just like most other boats.

Like chat said, the a22 is so simple to use, easy to show others how to use it as well. i taught a friend how to set up the ballast and speed control and how to pull a wakeboarding in 2 minutes the other day on my A22.

wake/wave = tie,
exterior fit/finish = tie,
interior fit finish= mxz. very very plush and solid
interior layout = subjective. The axis is adjustable, the mxz is not. depends what you prefer
stock ballast and wedge= mxz. power wedge and 1" ballast hose compared to axis manual wedge and 3/4" hoses
motors = tie.
looks= subjective.
trailer= tie. boat mate dual axle

* tie goes to Axis for being $45K+ cheaper.

demo and decide if the prices are right
45K+ cheaper? I don't know where your'e either finding mxzs for 100k or A22s for 40k........
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-29-2012, 1:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_defacto View Post

* tie goes to Axis for being $45K+ cheaper.
Is there really a $45K difference. I bet Chatt's boat (for a regular buyer, not Chatt's discount price) was $60K without the WS system. What an equivalent MXZ, $80K? $20K difference is still a lot.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-29-2012, 1:50 PM Reply   
you can get fairly loaded mxz for about 85k, they are typically 5k more than the LSV with similar options, which makes zero sense
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-29-2012, 1:52 PM Reply   
I agree with Bruizza. If you're on a budget and a chest thumping stereo is important to you, then I would go with the Axis. It's going to produce a world class wake and you can put everything that you save toward stereo. If you're not on a budget, the bells and whistles of the Malibu are awesome! We have a new MXZ and it's a pleasure to be in.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-29-2012, 1:52 PM Reply   
You can get a 2012 fairly loaded A22 out the door in mid to high 50's. Sorry, I thought the mxz was $100k, I did not realize it is $80k. Correction, tie goes to Axis for being $25k+ cheaper.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       05-29-2012, 1:54 PM Reply   
Having just bought a boat with my fiancÚ making sure it has the stuff that makes her happy is important. That was why I mentioned throwing a massive stereo/LED set up in it with some of the savings. I mean my fiancÚ got a heater and I got a monster stereo set up. Seemed like a win/win!
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-29-2012, 1:55 PM Reply   
MXZ is a sweet looking boat, we've been looking at one and hope to demo one. Big negative is that it has 3 cubic SQFT less then the VLX in the cockpit. Wiht the LSV being 5k cheaper, wiht a crazy good wake, and a ton more room, it's hard to go that way.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-29-2012, 2:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizza View Post
Having just bought a boat with my fiancÚ making sure it has the stuff that makes her happy is important. That was why I mentioned throwing a massive stereo/LED set up in it with some of the savings. I mean my fiancÚ got a heater and I got a monster stereo set up. Seemed like a win/win!
At the end of the day it is definitely about what makes you happy - Wake/Finish/Stereo. If you have the money, go for it.
Old    Adam Balon (adam_balon)      Join Date: Jul 2003       05-29-2012, 2:19 PM Reply   
23 lsv and the wake hammers. we have it loaded but man its real good.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-29-2012, 2:21 PM Reply   
My understanding is that the average selling price of a new axis with the standard motor is slightly under 50k. If you add the LS6, like my boat has, and a z5, you're probably slightly over 60k. Depends on your dealer.

In regard to the mxz, from a very reliable source, I've been told that the average selling price of that boat with the motor upgrade is around 90k. In reality, the difference between a loaded axis (big motor) and a nicely loaded mxz (big motor) is more like $30k.

In my world, $30k is a lot of money. The MXZ is a nice, and I mean NICE, boat. It's just what you want to spend your money on. There nothing wrong with buying either boat.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-29-2012, 2:28 PM Reply   
I will say this, I do think the MXZ is the one of the most over priced boats on the market.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-29-2012, 2:29 PM Reply   
@ Chatt: new boat looks sick.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-29-2012, 2:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
I will say this, I do think the MXZ is the one of the most over priced boats on the market.
I don't know about that, wiht the new G23 and Xstar coming in around 125k nicely equiped, it makes the MXZ look like a budget boat. I've priced out an MXZ, came inches from pulling the trigger and I was bellow 90k wiht an upgraded engine and lots of options. Now it should be cheaper than the LSV, but like I said it avgs abotu 5k more
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-29-2012, 2:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
I don't know about that, wiht the new G23 and Xstar coming in around 125k nicely equiped, it makes the MXZ look like a budget boat. I've priced out an MXZ, came inches from pulling the trigger and I was bellow 90k wiht an upgraded engine and lots of options. Now it should be cheaper than the LSV, but like I said it avgs abotu 5k more
The G23 and Xstar are absurdly priced. Flat out a joke. $85K for a 22ft boat is very high. Basically the MXZ and MC X25. You can buy a very nice Enzo 244/Tige z3 for $85K.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-29-2012, 2:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
The G23 and Xstar are absurdly priced. Flat out a joke. $85K for a 22ft boat is very high. Basically the MXZ and MC X25. You can buy a very nice Enzo 244/Tige z3 for $85K.
The Z3 is another boat on our list, actually going to demo one next week. It is slightly cheaper, but not enough to make it stand out, you can also get a LSV for the same price you're talking about. 23ft is about as big as I want to go. Not sure why the MXZ is more, myself I'd go LSV all day, but the MXZ has some things my wife likes and she is leaning that way. I am really curious about the Z3. Also want to take out an x30 and x25. Hopefully buy at the boat show this year to get some key discounts.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       05-29-2012, 2:53 PM Reply   
If you want everyones opinion, I will chime in as well....

I dont have the MXZ, I have the VLX (2011) but the features are basically identical on the boat (Maliview, MTC, tower, interior, etc...) Both are nice boats, but anyone who says the Malibu/wakesetter series is not MUCH nicer than the AXIS is crazy. When I was shopping for my Malibu and went and checked out the Axis. After looking at the Axis for me, I knew I wanted something nicer, so it was an immediate pass on the Axis for me. I did not even take the Axis out on the water because it lacked many of the features I wanted in a boat. Go sit in the Axis, its a very "basic" boat, it feels cheaper, because it is much cheaper, hence the price. Go sit in a Wakesetter (any of them) and look at the Malibu fit and finish, creature comforts, G3 Tower, quad board racks, grab rails, steering wheel, dash layout, Maliview, MTC, etc... there is a reason the Wakesetter is more expensive. The wakesetter IMO feels and looks like a sexy boat...

If you are an average intermediate rider, I would bet my paycheck both of these boats will be more than sufficient for you. And even if you are advanced, throw some extra weight in each boat and either would more than likely keep a smile on your face.


Someone mentioned operating the Axis is simple, I dont know how much easier it can get with the Maliview and having a rider preset, press the button, all the ballast tanks fill and drain, shut off automatically, wedge is deployed where it should be, etc.... One push of the button, done, get ready to ride. Finished for the day, one button, Go Home, and everything goes back to its original status, tanks emptied, wedge retracts, etc.... simple.

If you dont care about all the above, and price might be an issue, and want a basic wakeboat that will deliver a great wake without all the bells and whistles the Axis would be a great purchase for you. You really need to go out and sit in them, drive them, ride behind them. All these opinions are from people who are not going to be writing the check for the boat.... you are, so make sure and demo them both to make a purchase you will be pleased with and have no regrets.
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-29-2012, 3:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
If you add the LS6, like my boat has
Your boat has an LS3.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-29-2012, 5:10 PM Reply   
Hahaha you're exactly right. Ls3 it is. My damn Ctsv had an ls6 (04). Woops!
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-29-2012, 5:12 PM Reply   
Miss that car.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-29-2012, 5:25 PM Reply   
I had an 08 Moomba XLV and when looking at new boats started at Axis, but just couldn't do it, seemed a bit like a downgrade (even if the wake was better). Too many little areas where they cheaped out (No base below Chilax seats, lower end Vinyl, plastic everything. After comparing them I ended up with a new X-30 and it is a very nice boat. I was crossed between a 23LSV and X-30 and while both are amazing pieces of technology, the X-30 fit us better. But a 23LSV is still one of my top 5 boats.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-29-2012, 6:39 PM Reply   
My wife could easily operate the Maliview. Maybe all you really need is a smart female at the helm.Then she would tell you the MXZ is a much better appointed boat that costs a whole lot more.Then you both could decide if it's worth the difference.
Old    Dirk Walden (wakewoody)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-29-2012, 7:03 PM Reply   
Hey Chatt, Not to hyjack, but what boat has the best surf wake, the lsv or the A 22? I am tired of throwing money into wakesetters and worrying about scratches and the interior all the time.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-29-2012, 7:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakewoody View Post
Hey Chatt, Not to hyjack, but what boat has the best surf wake, the lsv or the A 22? I am tired of throwing money into wakesetters and worrying about scratches and the interior all the time.
From my exp the axis has a great wakeboard wake, but a terrible surf wake. The LSV has both. You can weigh the crap out of an LSV and get a crazy surf wave.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-29-2012, 7:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 501s View Post
For the record when I was pricing them out the A22 and a 23LSV were closer in price then I would have thought. About 1/2 what the Bruizza mentioned.
We just bought a new 23 LSV, and I'll just say that we were very happy with the deal we got and a lot closer to what we were quoted on the Axis than you might think. Also allowed us to get that nice system dialed in with a couple pair of Rev 10's on the tower...it pays to shop around and be patient.
Old    Ed (elc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-29-2012, 7:15 PM Reply   
MXZ is an incredible boat, and I would own one if it wasn't 90k. I ended up with an Axis over two years ago and a year later a lake house. I put the $25k extra I would have put down on a bu lsv (at the time) and put it into a vacation house. The Axis is an awesome boat that does everything that I need it to. Instead of a little better vinyl and some some nicely machined parts. I was able to get another home (but close to a lake) and installed some upgrades in that instead.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-29-2012, 7:26 PM Reply   
Not sure the axis surf wake sucks...i may be wrong but i remember seeing this pic before

Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-29-2012, 7:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr View Post
Not sure the axis surf wake sucks...i may be wrong but i remember seeing this pic before

Honestly been on some huge axis surf wakes that lacked push. A picture doesn't tell the whole story
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       05-29-2012, 7:29 PM Reply   
Chris surfed behind ours with the old platform. The old Axis platform jacked the surf wave up. I've heard great things about the new platform and the surf wave.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-29-2012, 7:34 PM Reply   
The lsv has a better surf wave. I like the wb wake behind the a22 better.

The vinyl in my a22 is every bit as nice as what is in any moomba I've ever been in IMO.

Yes, the malibus are nicer and have more bling. No disputing that. However overall construction quality is the same. These boats are all built on the same line by the same people using the same gel and fiberglass. Are there cheaper finish/trim parts used in the axis line? Are the electronics much more basic? Of course. You have to cut some corners.

Let's not forget here, if money were no object, I think most of us would just go order a g23 or something, but for the vast majority of us, it is. $25k is $25k. That's a nice tow rig. That's a down payment on a home. That's 2 years of private school. Also, all boats depreciate, and the more you spend the more you will lose over time. It's a depreciating asset, it's not buying property or investing in a 401k or roth ira.

There is no perfect boat. To each there own. Spend what you feel comfortable spending. IMO, the a22 is the best bang for the buck boat out there, for a variety of reasons, but that doesn't mean there aren't other great options out there too.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-29-2012, 7:36 PM Reply   
The surf wave can get really good behind the a22 with the new platform and when properly weighted. Demo demo demo, and figure it out for yourself!
Old    Dirk Walden (wakewoody)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-29-2012, 7:36 PM Reply   
I got a crazy surf wake with my VLX, but i had to weight it to the butt puckering point! My lsv wake is a little better with out worrying about rollers. That picture of the A22 wake looks tall, but short. Hard to tell with different camera angles.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-29-2012, 7:37 PM Reply   
But, the lsv wave is better. It's just big, clean and hard to mess up.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-29-2012, 7:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
Honestly been on some huge axis surf wakes that lacked push. A picture doesn't tell the whole story
I have no clue...i'll just stick to surfing a 200. it puts out a monster wake jk
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-29-2012, 7:53 PM Reply   
The best budget surf boats are Centurion Avalanche/Supreme 226/Sanger V237. The Bu 247 puts out a great wave but it takes a lot of weight. Personally, I am biased towards my Enzo 244

Sorry for the thread hijack. Back to your regular scheduled programming.

iPhone Pic: no sacks on the seats and just a driver.
Attached Images
 
Old    Dirk Walden (wakewoody)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-29-2012, 8:51 PM Reply   
I would buy an Enzo Ina heartbeat, except for 1 no close dealer 2 need that pesky right surf option, and 3 the big reason , not as nice as a LSV, for the same or higher price.
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-29-2012, 10:02 PM Reply   
I know Chat really loves his A22 but I think if you compare the Vinyl in a new Moomba to a new Axis you would see that the Vinyl in a 2012 Moomba is little nicer. My Buddy just got a Mojo and it has the carbon fiber pattern on it and looks/feels a little higher quality. Not MC or CC quality but a little nicer. Not that it's that big of a deal though. I still love the look of an A22 and there are a few on my lake this year so hoepfully I can snag a ride behind one soon.
Old    Tory Parke (TParke)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-29-2012, 11:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
Honestly been on some huge axis surf wakes that lacked push. A picture doesn't tell the whole story
The push is definitely a little different especially if you don't have it dialed in. It took us a while to get it set up and now it has plenty of push imo.
Old    Logan Downer (logan)      Join Date: Dec 2011       05-30-2012, 12:08 AM Reply   
The day I buy a boat for a surf wake over a wakeboard wake I will have to kick my own ass. Furthermore if I see a G23 with a full wet sounds set up on my lake this year tied up, I am doing some grand theft and setting that boat free to be shredded behind.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-30-2012, 12:50 AM Reply   
Malibu vs. Axis... it really depends on how much value you place on the tower, interior, looks, and luxuries of a boat. The wake between these two boats is a push. But everything else is night vs.day different.

I think the interior of a boat is a HUGE factor. It's where you spend most of your time. I want to be comfortable there and I want it to look and feel top notch. For me that means Malibu. That's not to say that Axis can't be comfortable. But it's just an entirely different look and feel. Malibu is soft, rounded, and plush. The vinyl is so thick and soft that it resembles leather. Axis is more of an edgy, chiseled look and feel. The vinyl and carpet is not of the same grade and the seat cushions are not as robust. Those who have Axis love this style and it's often what draws people to the boat. But the two couldn't be more different. I'm actually amazed they come from the same factory. Malibu has done a great job differentiating these products and aiming them at different demographics.

Spend a few minutes inside each boat. Sit in the seats, look at the storage, load the racks, and lower and raise the tower. You'll know right away which one is for you. I suspect you'll opt for the Malibu. The fact that you are even asking about it tells me you can likely afford it.

Finally, here's a great video of the MXZ made by Active Water Sports. It's really well made and gives you plenty of wake shots. Enjoy!

Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-30-2012, 3:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by logan View Post
the day i buy a boat for a surf wake over a wakeboard wake i will have to kick my own ass. Furthermore if i see a g23 with a full wet sounds set up on my lake this year tied up, i am doing some grand theft and setting that boat free to be shredded behind.
this ^^^^^^ ftw
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 4:54 AM Reply   
FWIW - I shopped boats last fall and Axis was on my list. I checked out 3 different A22's (2 2012's and 1 2011) and demoed the one I liked best. All 3 were brand new and had upholstery issues. In 2 of them the vinyl was tearing where the rear hatches close by the cup holders - apparently this is a common problem as I've read about others with the same issue. 1 of them had the vinyl pulling away from the cup holders on the rear sun pad. 1 of them had stitching pulling apart on a seat back. And all the stitching in general looked questionable. I asked the dealer about how the vinyl has been holding up and he told me it just depends on how you use it. He also said that he has ordered and replaced skins for a few people already and it was not a big deal to replace them BUT it is not covered under warranty. This scared me away. Well that and a handful of other things including the price.

2012 A22 Vandal Edition - with metal flake accents and a tricked out trailer was $64,XXX out the door.
2011 A22 - All black with minimal options and regular trailer was $55,XXX
2012 A22 - All black with minimal options and regular trailer was $58,XXX

These were my complete out the door prices with tax and prep included. I am sure they would have came off the price once I started to haggle but chose not to go that route. All boats either had a MTX stereo or Alpine.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 5:48 AM Reply   
Well, I've actually owned two Axis A22's, I use them pretty hard, and I've had zero vinyl problems.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 7:05 AM Reply   
That's great to hear. You obviously like them enough to have bought a second one. I understand that they are not all going to have problems like that or they would not be selling many. This was just my experience. Sub par quality control killed their sale.

Would you have bought one after seeing what I saw and getting the prices that I got? NO. Now if the boats were fixed the way they should be and I could get into it for under $50k like some of you ..... Well, then.... I'd consider it.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 7:23 AM Reply   
Mike G - I agree, and I hate that the dealer you dealt with did not do a better job going through everything with you and/or having his boats in tip top shape for prospective customers.

Some of making these boats look perfect on the showroom floor falls on the dealer. The factory lake test crew will catch a lot of construction flaws, but it is also up to the dealer to inspect its inventory upon delivery, note any issues, and have them fixed. When my friend was a nautique dealer, he had to deal with a lot of small issues too (it's not just axis/bu), but he always fixed them before ANY customers saw his boats. I've personally picked up 2 nautiques, 2 axis A22's and a VLX right off of a trailer from the factory and taken them home. There are always, and I mean ALWAYS, a few little things that need to be tightened, cleaned, polished, etc. etc. Some dealers prep boats better than others.

Mike - I use my boats pretty hard. I have two small destruction monster children who like to play with sharp objects, and spill stuff everywhere. Plus, we ride a lot, sac the heck out of our boats, have gear everywhere, etc. I also, on occasion, will have a ton of girls, ice luges, coolers, etc. all over the boat, dancing, melting, leaking, and being dragged everywhere. I simply did not find that the vinyl in my boat was any less durable than the vinyl I had in my other boats.

Last edited by chattwake; 05-30-2012 at 7:27 AM.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 7:54 AM Reply   
Sounds like you put it through the ringer! HA!

I did like the boat other than the issues stated above. It drove and handled very well and the wake was pretty nice although we didn't have any additional weight in the boat. It was a very WIDE wake but I ride at 90-95ft back. I like the snap out carpet. Overall the Axis boats have great eye appeal.

There were a handful of other things that steered me away from making a purchase. Most of which, like you said, could have been solved by the dealer before hand. I can be pretty picky when spending $50-60k and the very obvious unresolved issues was a turn off for me.... that and the price
Old    Jimmy Winkle (jimmyd)      Join Date: Apr 2012       05-30-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
There is probably a rough 13-15k difference between the two if you break it down.

Axis needs a power wedge and zero-off option!
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-30-2012, 7:57 AM Reply   
Holy hell...95' feet back!!
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-30-2012, 8:09 AM Reply   
You can’t go wrong with either boat, just demo them and get what you like the best.

A moderately optioned 2012 A22 would have cost me $58k and that was with the base engine and no tower speakers. A VLX with the same options was around $10k more. To me that was a no brainer. The Axis may be cheaper, but it felt like there was much more of a difference than that in terms of materials, design, and workmanship. The A22 is a great boat that spits out an excellent wake, but with their increasing prices the deal you are getting on a budget boat just doesn't seem like that much of a deal. If there had really been a $30k difference in price between those boats than I probably would own an Axis today instead of a VLX.

I was quoted $85k for a very well optioned MXZ (stereo pack 3 with 4 tower speakers, bigger engine, heater, LED's, etc). A 23 LSV with similar options was $80k and an A22 Vandall with similar options was around $65k. Not as much of a price difference as many think.

I think that the Maliview is very wife friendly. I just ask her to hit the preset with my name by it and it's all done: speed, ballast, and wedge. The engine start button is always on the bottom right corner of the MTC screen, you don't have to search through any menus to find it. It's no harder than a key IMO.

Switching between riders of different skill sets is simple, hit the preset button and the automated system just works. No guess work on which bags to fill/empty and how much. If everybody you ride with is at the same skill level than this isn't a big problem but for us that is not the case. We switch from beginner to intermediate to advanced riders all the time and its right for each person every time with no guess work. The pumps also turn themselves off when done filling/draining which is another great feature.

Last edited by Brett_B; 05-30-2012 at 8:13 AM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 8:16 AM Reply   
Man! Some dealers are holding firm on that Axis msrp. Crazy!

It would be a hard decision to choose between a comparably equipped VLX and an A22 if 10k is the only difference.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 8:43 AM Reply   
Wow Brett! Sounds like you got the EXACT SAME pricing that I got. To me that is interesting because there is a misconception that these boats can be bought in the $40's.... Most def not anymore! I think they are pricing themselves out of the market. From what I have read, to really take advantage of the A22's potential you need to add the plug 'n' play ballast bags. The prices that I got had the pnp hose connections but the bags were all extra. AND the stock stereo leaves much to be desired so add in an upgrade there too. Don't forget the Z5 cargo bimini, tower mirror, and who knows what else....

So basically to get an A22 Vandal dialed in the way I or most people would want (similar to Chatt's boat) - you're looking at $70k+ Ouch. Dealer may or may not throw some of those extras in. YMMV
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-30-2012, 8:49 AM Reply   
Honestly the Z5 is so over priced and usless with surf pockets that are becoming more common at less than 1/10th the price of the Z5. Plus easier to stow and deal with towing.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 8:57 AM Reply   
I think you can get an A22 with the big motor, z5 and full wetsounds system (stereo pack III) for mid to high $60's from a reasonable dealer.

What does a loaded VLX/LSV cost with the big motor, full wetsounds system, tricked out trailer, pnp, etc. cost? I think you're still looking at mid 80s.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-30-2012, 8:58 AM Reply   
BTW, I love my z5. I can tow 80mph with it up. I can stand on it. I can put a cooler on it. I can put 3 boards up there absolutely safely - which eliminates the need for an extra set of racks. Plus, it looks cool and provides tons of shade.

BTW, it's my understanding that the z5 will be available on some more models next year....
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-30-2012, 8:59 AM Reply   
Yeah you're going to be mid 80s depending on the system. Not sure the VLX needs the upgraded motor as much as the LSV though. The newer motors seem to handle loads a little better than they did a few years ago.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-30-2012, 9:02 AM Reply   
The one big plus of the Z5 is looks, but over time towing at 80, whihc isn't the best idea in the first place, will start to cause the fabric to fall apart. Surf pockets do everything the Z5 does at a fraction of the cost and they tend to last longer. I can't see paying 4k for a z5, that is always up, when I can get vinyl lined surf pockets on a storable bimini for under $400
Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-30-2012, 9:10 AM Reply   
The prices I found were a lot closer to what Brett stated above then the 30k other people mentioned. In terms of resale, after 3 or 4 years I am SURE the Malibu will be worth at least the cost difference between the two.

The biggest thing I found is when it actually came time to purchase there was a lot more room for negotiation then I expected (But this is the part of dealing Im pretty good at) . The MSRP prices of a boat have nothing to do with the out the door prices. I also found that there was a lot more room to haggle on the more expensive boats then on a Moomba or Axis. The MSRP on my X-30 was $118k CAD and I didn't pay anything close to that. MSRP's really don't mean a thing, I think they are there for bragging rights of the rich guys to say how much their boat is "worth". And some people prefer a 90k boat to a 70k boat because it cost more.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       05-30-2012, 9:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
BTW, I love my z5. I can tow 80mph with it up. I can stand on it. I can put a cooler on it. I can put 3 boards up there absolutely safely - which eliminates the need for an extra set of racks. Plus, it looks cool and provides tons of shade.

BTW, it's my understanding that the z5 will be available on some more models next year....
How do you take down the z5 on the water? I had one on my Supra and that was my biggest gripe, if you want some sun in the boat it was impossible to remove it. And on windy days it blows you around like a big sail. I loved the storage for boards, that was great...

This is one reason I like the quad board racks on the G3 tower, I can carry as much gear as when I had the z5 and have the capability for shade or sun in the boat.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-30-2012, 9:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
How do you take down the z5 on the water? I had one on my Supra and that was my biggest gripe, if you want some sun in the boat it was impossible to remove it. And on windy days it blows you around like a big sail. I loved the storage for boards, that was great...

This is one reason I like the quad board racks on the G3 tower, I can carry as much gear as when I had the z5 and have the capability for shade or sun in the boat.
the G3 tower is also my favortie tower. You can also add pockets to it and have a place for surf boards and 8 wakebaords, or in our case 2 surfboards, 6 wakeboards and a foil. You can add more racks to the axis tower too, you just have to drill it yourself.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       05-30-2012, 9:32 AM Reply   
For whatever it is worth our Axis in 2010 with the upgraded engine, pnp, biggest stereo they offered at the time was about 52k OTD. We priced out a VLX with basically every option there is minus the upgrade engine and it was going to be 86k OTD. It was LOADED though including tower camera 4 board racks, heater, tricked out trailer, full wet sounds etc.., I know Axis pricing has gone up some since the summer of 2010 due to mandatory cats etc... So from "my" real world experience a Bu is going to cost you 25-30k more.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 9:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
I think you can get an A22 with the big motor, z5 and full wetsounds system (stereo pack III) for mid to high $60's from a reasonable dealer.

What does a loaded VLX/LSV cost with the big motor, full wetsounds system, tricked out trailer, pnp, etc. cost? I think you're still looking at mid 80s.
Are you assuming this or do you know for a fact? I'm curious because there is a lot of BS talk on here and it would be nice to know what others are actually paying for the same boat. Apples to Apples comparisons.

2012 A22 Vandal and tricked out trailer - $64,XXX
Z5 - $2,500 (i think this is what I was quoted at the time)
Wetsounds or other stereo upgrade - $3-5k +/-
Ballast bags - $1k ?
Upgraded motor option - $?,???
etc...etc - $?,???

You can see how this will add up. I'm sure there was some wiggle room here but I am going off of real life numbers from what I was actually quoted from my dealer as I was a serious buyer. I spent time at the dealer on different boats, went for a demo for 2+ hours, and then crunched the numbers in the sales office for a few hours in regard to my options.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-30-2012, 9:40 AM Reply   
65k for any Axis is nuts in my book unless it has 10-15k worth of stereo.

That and why in the hell are boats so damn much in Seattle. I don't know for sure but was quoted 90k for a normally equipped 23LSV without a trailer last year. My guess is the MKZ is at or around 100k. The Mastercraft dealer gets over 100k I think for every boat they sell except the X2 and X15. Tige RZ2, RZ4 and Z3's are up in the 80k+ range. Nautique 230's are 90-100k. WTH. We can only use the boats realistically for 4 or 5 months a year. WTF. Even the MB dealer get 60kish for 21 tomcats and TWB's when everybody on here says they are paying 50-55k.
Old    Mike G (MikeyG)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-30-2012, 9:43 AM Reply   
You cannot go by what 2010 Axis prices once were. From what the dealer told me - There have been many price increases since then. 3% here 3% there..... it adds up!


I also went to the Mastercraft Dealer to have a look-see around the same time last year. I knew one of the sales reps and they let me crawl all over an X25 that they just sold and were prepping. It was very well appointed and he told me it sold for $94k OTD

Last edited by MikeyG; 05-30-2012 at 9:48 AM. Reason: add info
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       05-30-2012, 9:51 AM Reply   
So if you take my prices and add 10% to the Axis you are still at an almost 30k difference. Hell add 20% to the Axis and it is still over 20k difference. Once again this is just my personal experience with an A22 and a VLX not even an MXZ which is going to cost more.

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