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Old     (MrPeepers)      Join Date: Aug 2011       05-22-2012, 11:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhawk View Post
I think the "Bwuahahahaaha" crap is misguided. Not sure what everyone is looking at, but I think the wash thing is a matter of camera perspective and, really, some cattyness among us. MasterCraft makes a hell of a boat. Marketing-wise, I think they need a miracle but I'll get to that in a second. Boat wise... they make one of the best boats money can buy. I am sure that thing is killer. But they need Zane on this pronto. He's the best rider/spokesperson in the history of the sport and this thing needs him. Not Harley, not anyone else in my opinion. They need Zane to talk through this stuff because the "word on the street" isn't great for some reason. They need to fix that more than address the wash with a change to the hull or something like a few of you guys are saying.

Harley's riding in that Alliance clip is unreal. I am good at calling tricks and some of that stuff I have never even seen before. He is a locomotive.
People are certainly nitpicking, but that is because everyone expected the new Star to be the "best of the best". This is an opportunity to take jabs at the big kid on the block and everyone is jumping at the chance.

There is no doubting the quality of Mastercraft's construction, but that wake has not been presented very well...so far...in my opinion.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-22-2012, 11:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmayotte View Post
Travis has one of the only opinion that really matters. I'd love to hear what he has to say about the subject.
Hes sponsored by Mastercraft, of course hes not going to bad mouth it. The guy knows what hes talking about and Im sure can provide alot of insight on the subject back to MC to help tweak it if its needed.
Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-22-2012, 11:14 AM Reply   
What does the new X-Star draw compared to the G23?
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-22-2012, 11:35 AM Reply   
I love how all the awful, ridiculous, and childish poop slinging comments come from a group of people who have never ridden either boat.

Get a life people.

The whole paradigm of needing to push the sport is bs. To progress the sport u have to be in the top 10 riders.

Get your asses out from behind your keyboard and tow someone who has never rode before. Stop being fanboys and get back to having fun.

It's summer.... And a bunch of u need to be left on the dock.

/rant
Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-22-2012, 12:08 PM Reply   
I removed mine too. High five.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-22-2012, 12:09 PM Reply   
The MC Facebook just uploaded a frame grab of the new wake. WOW!!!!! I'd paste it here but idk how. It's HUGE. And clean as a whistle.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       05-22-2012, 12:16 PM Reply   
From the MC FB page:

Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-22-2012, 12:18 PM Reply   
That still says nothing. My Ski Nautique has that appearance too and I am not trying to be a jerk. Correct Craft was very smart about how they started showing the G23 wake. They set a good example that MasterCraft is abjectly not following.
Old    TN22            05-22-2012, 12:18 PM Reply   
Looks great in that pic but what does it look like when he actually hits it?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-22-2012, 12:27 PM Reply   
That's clean as fug.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-22-2012, 12:34 PM Reply   
I hope this boat is a success and the G23...that way you guys sell off ur xstars & 230/210s and people can get deals on them whats the waiting list like for the new Xstars??
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-22-2012, 12:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhawk View Post
I think the "Bwuahahahaaha" crap is misguided. Not sure what everyone is looking at, but I think the wash thing is a matter of camera perspective and, really, some cattyness among us. MasterCraft makes a hell of a boat. Marketing-wise, I think they need a miracle but I'll get to that in a second. Boat wise... they make one of the best boats money can buy. I am sure that thing is killer. But they need Zane on this pronto. He's the best rider/spokesperson in the history of the sport and this thing needs him. Not Harley, not anyone else in my opinion. They need Zane to talk through this stuff because the "word on the street" isn't great for some reason. They need to fix that more than address the wash with a change to the hull or something like a few of you guys are saying.

Harley's riding in that Alliance clip is unreal. I am good at calling tricks and some of that stuff I have never even seen before. He is a locomotive.
Really?

You've had like 5 people in 5 different threads say that they all *rode* the wake over the past weeks and every one of them said it was washy, inconsistent and the boat porpoises.. It's a brand new boat that just pulled a major wake event..

*MANY* professionals had to pull the rope in shorter to 70' or 75' last weekend because the wake was so washy and inconsistent..

If anything - the reaction is understated.. You're basing your opinion on a 45 second vid shot from direct center of the boat with the absolute BEST rider in the world throwing down behind it? Harley can ride a jet ski and make it look sick.. The videos show a BIG washed out wake (both sides) that is inconsistent and the people who have rode behind it all say it porpoised.. And it HAS a trim plate!

Dont' get me wrong - all of this is *totally* expected out of *any* boat in the R & D stage.. But certainly not one that is now available for the public and the professionals to view and ride.

The release of the boat, the wake and MC fans trying to justify it by saying that MC makes a nice boat (which they do) is laughable..
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-22-2012, 1:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Really?

You've had like 5 people in 5 different threads say that they all *rode* the wake over the past weeks and every one of them said it was washy, inconsistent and the boat porpoises.. It's a brand new boat that just pulled a major wake event..

*MANY* professionals had to pull the rope in shorter to 70' or 75' last weekend because the wake was so washy and inconsistent..

If anything - the reaction is understated.. You're basing your opinion on a 45 second vid shot from direct center of the boat with the absolute BEST rider in the world throwing down behind it? Harley can ride a jet ski and make it look sick.. The videos show a BIG washed out wake (both sides) that is inconsistent and the people who have rode behind it all say it porpoised.. And it HAS a trim plate!

Dont' get me wrong - all of this is *totally* expected out of *any* boat in the R & D stage.. But certainly not one that is now available for the public and the professionals to view and ride.

The release of the boat, the wake and MC fans trying to justify it by saying that MC makes a nice boat (which they do) is laughable..
Yes, "Really". I haven't been behind the boat nor seen 100% convincing footage in either direction (positive or negative). Third-party descriptions just mean little to me with this. Even that of expert and respected people like Travis Moye (who I share in feeling a lot of respect toward when it comes to opinions) . I am not a MasterCraft fanboy either. I think there may be issues, which is why I want them to apply some PR, course correction, and Zane. This is being made into a very black and white issue. As in, people are saying it is horrible, and others are making it out to be a waist high kicker. The truth probably sits in there in the middle somewhere. Agreed that there are some issues to address. I completely disagree that the issues are being understated. WakeWorld has been a MasterCraft slaughterhouse with regard to this X-Star. And the G23 is the darling of this site. It has been a confusing couple of months.

Last edited by juniorhawk; 05-22-2012 at 1:51 PM.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-22-2012, 2:19 PM Reply   
The videos posted of the boat all show a washed out wake on both sides and the 1st hand opinions of professional riders saying it was washed out, riding shot lines, etc is plenty.

This thread is about the X-star, not the G23. The G23 showed up with videos of a clean, huge wake and then pulled the tour with that wake the next weekend. Mastercraft posted videos of a huge, washed out wake and then pulled the tour with that wake the next weekend. Both were well documented with videos, professional and amateur feedback.

I don't disagree that WW has been big on loving/hating brands lately - but this thread is only meant to address the washy wake that the new Star has shown in all the vids. You're downplaying the piss out of it. I like MC's too and I'm sure in time the wake will be dialed. Right now, that isn't even close to the case.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-22-2012, 2:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhawk View Post
Yes, "Really". I haven't been behind the boat nor seen 100% convincing footage in either direction (positive or negative). Third-party descriptions just mean little to me with this. Even that of expert and respected people like Travis Moye (who I share in feeling a lot of respect toward when it comes to opinions) . I am not a MasterCraft fanboy either. I think there may be issues, which is why I want them to apply some PR, course correction, and Zane. This is being made into a very black and white issue. As in, people are saying it is horrible, and others are making it out to be a waist high kicker. The truth probably sits in there in the middle somewhere. Agreed that there are some issues to address. I completely disagree that the issues are being understated. WakeWorld has been a MasterCraft slaughterhouse with regard to this X-Star. And the G23 is the darling of this site. It has been a confusing couple of months.
I think a lot of it has to do with Nautique not overhyping the boat like Mastercraft did. Mastercraft had this crazy reveal at Surf Expo, then couldn't get things correct so had to delay production then before they can get it right Nautique builds interest for a couple weeks then releases a boat that is ready for production(was even on boat builder the day it was released), from what we have seen performs great, all while mastercraft still struggles to brign their to market. Then 8 months after the original debut they finally let the public see it and pull a comp and still it seems liek the wake isnt' right. They brought it on themselves by building up way too much hype before getting the boat ready. Nautique did it correctly by having a producable finished product they were happy with and then quickly building some hype and releasing it to the buying public. They kind of stole Mastercrafts thunder by bringing their game changer, that most people didn't know about, to market before MC.
Old     (superfluous)      Join Date: May 2012       05-22-2012, 2:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
What differance does it make how well I ride ? Or even if I ride for that matter? The last time I checked this forum catagory is BOATS & TOW VEHICLES. The next time I post in the Wakeboarding forum we can discuss my riding skills.
I made no mention of your riding skills. Nice attempt at a diversion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
Im sorry you dont like my rig
You misunderstand once again.

I LOVE that goofy tow rig. Because it makes me laugh.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-22-2012, 3:07 PM Reply   
^^^+1
Old    sperbet            05-22-2012, 3:13 PM Reply   
Anybody else want to see simplej and mhunter in a free for all fight to the death?

Winner takes all, meaning whoever wins can continue to claim that 'their' boat is the best of the two. And by best I mean they can use alll the evidence out there (short video clips shot from bad angles, screen shots from said bad angle video clips, no first hand experience, and completely and totally unbiased owner goggled viewpoints) to convince us all.

Last edited by sperbet; 05-22-2012 at 3:16 PM.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-22-2012, 3:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperbet View Post
Anybody else want to see simplej and mhunter in a free for all fight to the death?

Winner takes all, meaning whoever wins can continue to claim that 'their' boat is the best of the two. And by best I mean they can use alll the evidence out there (short video clips shot from bad angles, screen shots from said bad angle video clips, no first hand experience, and completely and totally unbiased owner goggled viewpoints) to convince us all.
As long as they wear capes wiht the respective logos I'm in
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-22-2012, 3:33 PM Reply   
There has been 22 posts since my last post you dont care what I say right? Then why are you trying to drag me into this again?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-22-2012, 3:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperbet View Post
Anybody else want to see simplej and mhunter in a free for all fight to the death?

Winner takes all, meaning whoever wins can continue to claim that 'their' boat is the best of the two. And by best I mean they can use alll the evidence out there (short video clips shot from bad angles, screen shots from said bad angle video clips, no first hand experience, and completely and totally unbiased owner goggled viewpoints) to convince us all.
Lololol this is funny because I actually have a strong dislike for MC fueled by one friends very negative experience owning one, And have a TIGE myself! I'm just seriously fed up with seeing G23 this and that at every turn, also it's hilarious to get these nautique guys going because they argue in circles.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-22-2012, 3:41 PM Reply   
But if you'd like me to keep on stirring I gladly will, the g23 is the elephant of wake boats at this point.... At 130k I'll have a 23 foot I/o and z3/f24 for the cost of one g23
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-22-2012, 5:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
but if you'd like me to keep on stirring i gladly will, the g23 is the elephant of wake boats at this point.... At 130k i'll have a 23 foot i/o and z3/f24 for the cost of one g23
dilligaf.
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-22-2012, 5:30 PM Reply   
^^yeah...it does. You replied, didn't you?
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-22-2012, 6:00 PM Reply   
I think i know what the last 3 letters stand for but cant figure out the rest
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-22-2012, 6:01 PM Reply   
Do I look like I give a f...

Which it seems like he does
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-22-2012, 6:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Do I look like I give a f...

Which it seems like he does
Someone struck a nerve
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-22-2012, 6:14 PM Reply   
No problem here . Everything has been said on this topic and I dont feel like listening to your silly rants . I will probably start a new thread Monday after the Masters. I wonder if any more records will fall there?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-22-2012, 6:21 PM Reply   
Right you do that, hey here's a thought, there were 2 tournaments, back to back, with back to back 1080's. Maybe it's the riders that are progressing not the boats...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-22-2012, 6:23 PM Reply   
Also, Monday is a holiday. Shouldn't you be out riding not starting threads that are just going to get everyone all riled up!!!

Te only reason I'm here is because it rained all day...
Old    Travis (gotwake133)      Join Date: May 2010       05-22-2012, 6:41 PM Reply   
[QUOTE=At 130k I'll have a 23 foot I/o and z3/f24 for the cost of one g23[/QUOTE]

Who wants a 23ft IO...
Old    MCXSTAR (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-23-2012, 6:10 AM Reply   
Time for w2w dbl inverts with hand pass, Harley
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-23-2012, 6:45 AM Reply   
Been away from this one for a day, and wow I could swear it was winter.... David - what are the odds of an IQ test to get a username on here?

I should be getting behind the new X-star but it wouldn't be until this coming winter.... so I'm as good as the circle jerk above
Sounds like there will be a G23 at the MN Spring ride.... it'll be nice to see the photos/vids that come from that since those guys know how to setup a boat.

Back to the point of this thread -
Has anyone here actually been behind the new star of the g23? If not, lets just close the thread, who cares because basing a boat off of pics/vids is pointless.... the wake could look perfect but be soft and mushy. Seeing pros ride behind anything is going to make it look good, *Insert Byerly I/O video* and if someone has been behind one already odds are they're being paid to do so, making their opinion a bit bias. So until one of us John Doe's gets out behind one not much is going to happen besides some mild entertainment.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-23-2012, 6:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
But if you'd like me to keep on stirring I gladly will, the g23 is the elephant of wake boats at this point.... At 130k I'll have a 23 foot I/o and z3/f24 for the cost of one g23
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-23-2012, 8:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekicknicholas View Post
Sounds like there will be a G23 at the MN Spring ride.... it'll be nice to see the photos/vids that come from that since those guys know how to setup a boat.
Nick, the invite still stands...come on over and check it out. We'd love to get some Wisco representation. Good opportunities to which quite-a-bit of money, too!
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-23-2012, 8:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Nick, the invite still stands...come on over and check it out. We'd love to get some Wisco representation. Good opportunities to which quite-a-bit of money, too!
Shoot, I never texted you back - I have a wedding that weekend in Michigan.... but, and this is a big but, I may have to be in San Fran for work the thurs/friday before and if I fly into MSP then, I would have to miss the wedding, and be would be too close to not swing by the spring ride then eh?
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-23-2012, 8:46 AM Reply   
Sounds good, man. Keep me posted!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       05-23-2012, 9:05 AM Reply   
Yes okay I am being a bit of a troll to get people going...

All we can do is judge from pics, 2 acquaintances of mine, who are actually MC employed riders had not ridden the boat when
I had last talked to them, this was last month but still it kind of shows How DL the new star has been.

All thats been said most of us will never be able to use either of these boats to their full potential, myself included, and everything that's been said has been judged from pics or hear say.

BUT!! I find it incredibly hypocritical for anyone to knock the wake because it's looking washed out in pics... The boat won't even be be in production for another what month? I think this is ridiculous because the old nautique flagship had an incredibly finnicky washy wake but was still considered one of the best wakeboats of its era...how can you crucify years of development 1 freakin contest and 2 web videos especially considering other great wakes have been considered washy...
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-23-2012, 9:15 AM Reply   
This isn't just about all the videos and pictures where the wake is washy (or just not shown at all). In case you guys missed it, 3 people already posted in this very thread who either rode behind the new star or saw it pulling the pros all day IN PERSON. They all said the same thing, the wake was huge but it was a mess, and not just on the landing side. We don't need a paid MC spokesperson like Zane here to spin it for us, the thruth is already right in front of you. The new XStar hull just needs more work. At these prices, and with this much hype, people expect a lot more out of a flagship boat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gotwake133 View Post
A few weeks ago when I rode behind the new X-Star, the wake was absolutely huge, but extremely washy and very inconsistent. You never knew how it was going to throw you. It was huge and fun, but everyone punched through a few times and took some pretty awesome falls, including myself. There were about 7 people in the boat, and ALOT of ballast, and the boat felt extremely crowded for a 24 footer. Granted we did have people and sacks everywhere, but it still felt like an old 210 on the inside. Overall I thought there was a lot of work yet to be done, so we will see how it does this weekend. Hopefully they bring a few up there incase a transmission blows ; )
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
LOL @ Pro riders having to ride at 75ft and speed up for K.O.W. tournament this weekend cause the wake was washed and the boat was porpoising.. Glorious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzz View Post
Watched the boat pull the tour stop all day yesterday and the wake looks huge, it also looks like crap. Washed on the landing side is normal every boat I've seen does, that washy lip was ugly, seriously looks like a hull design issue.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-23-2012, 9:23 AM Reply   
^ easy. Because its supposed to be the "BEST"
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-23-2012, 10:04 AM Reply   
I have been behind the boat. The white prototype that was hacked up and reglassed a million times into the current hull. The wake was nothing but awkward and had a nasty lip. This was after all the patch jobs to the hull.

Go ahead a flame me out and say it wasn't a production boat, but that is what the production hull was based off of after the tweaks to the white hull.

The only reason this is such an issue is because MC boats are a flagship and heir marketing claims they are the best thing since sliced bread. The original revised boat (IE the White boat) hit the water and all you heard was rusty, parks, and harley claiming it was ridiculous and the biggest cleanest wake ever...................Guess what......they were obviously full of #$%. The boat had so many issues it never even are production, Now here we have the redesign and agues what its still jacked up too. How do you have a pro tour event and have the boat not dialed, and the wake look like crap. The wake in those photos is identical to the wake I rode. ITs awful and that lip can eat you up. This is the boat that MC has as the "BEST BOAT FOR BOARDING" in their line. This thing should be absolutely perfect with zero issue before it hits the public..........after all thats what is part of the extra cost for an MC right......ALL the R& that goes into the boat.

MC rushed everything to beat Nautique to the punch, just like they have been rushing everything in the past 3-4 yrs and having major customer service issues. I know all companies have some, but come on. We have 2012 bots on the water with no instructions manuals to work their electronics because the have been updated 3-4 times since the original manual. ITs ridiculous and MC deserves every bit of negativity this thing generates. IT should concern loyal owners as well.

The biggest issue is that a majority of us here and a majority of core riders won't be going and picking up a brand new star. The rich guy who has 4 boats on his dock or is buying his kid the best wake boat on the market is going to be buying the boat.......because the pros ride it. Its sad that a company that is supposedly on the top of the charts can't even get their stories straight, provide any info to dealers or customers, and completely blows a much anticipated design and continues to rush and throw it out there. Anyone who is saying the believe Travis, HArley, Rusty over plain hard pics, face and firsthand testimony from guys not in the sponsorship seat are retarded.

Plain and simple the X Star has issues and still does. Pick up a 25 if you want a sick boat
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-23-2012, 10:22 AM Reply   
Great thread! Should I feel guilty for enjoying this colossal MC/XSTAR failure?
Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-23-2012, 11:14 AM Reply   
I keep thinking of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

Unfortunately Occam'a razor is of no use in this situation. I don't know.

What's the simplest explanation?

1. That MasterCraft didn't do their homework and released a hull that was far from ready?

2. That they are weighting the boat too much causing the wake to wash when 6 zillion people are in it and bags are in it and the shore is pointing 9 zillion zoom camera lenses at it?

3. That the G23 just puts this boat to shame and we're measuring this X-Star against a newly-created class of boats entirely? Could that be it? Correct Craft has been smart about how to launch their flagship. It's the Belle of the Ball now. Prettiest girl at the dance. Does just nothing compete now? Really? Can't be?

The first-hand accounts though, are so very damning. I am torn, and trying to think analytically. I am with Jernberg whose opinion I respect as well as Zane's. Jernberg may offer them too much credit here though. I can tell you that I do think they are boning this because they aren't talking. This has been a PR disaster for them on here. ON HERE. What's it like out there? At dealerships? Are they flying off the shelves, being sold quicker than they can be built? Who knows. Probably though?

MasterCraft is duffing this, no matter how you cut it. Absolutely agree with Jernberg that they deserve some credit - but where? They need to start talking - because that would change the tenor of the conversation here. Like, "oh ok that's why they did that, that way" etc etc.

Blowing it. THEY ARE BLOWING IT.
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       05-23-2012, 11:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Great thread! Should I feel guilty for enjoying this colossal MC/XSTAR failure?
If you still feel bad, just remind yourself that MC has been sure to promote that they have been so good at "designing world class wake hulls" for so many years that that they feel the need to disparage other brands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joXHoWz5vPM
Old    Adrock (Moose99)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-23-2012, 11:28 AM Reply   
Not sure why I didn't notice this earlier and i don't think anyone else has picked up on this, but the title for the video on SBC and Alliance last week said 2013 Mastercraft X-Star. Does that mean this boat won't be ready until next year? If so, why was it launched last fall at Surf Expo? But maybe it means their still working on it and making tweaks to the hull and try to make the wake better.
Something seems fishy to me.
Old    Sippi (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       05-23-2012, 11:40 AM Reply   
Poor kid...can't get a new xstar has to wait and use a '12 x45. that's just not right! (was written in sarcasm font).....wow...
Old    Jon (supersonicmi)      Join Date: Sep 2005       05-23-2012, 12:02 PM Reply   
What is worse than a huge, inconsistent and unpredictable wake? It might eat you up and spit you out, it might boot you into the heavens... its like gambling everytime you cut into the wake!
Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-23-2012, 12:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersonicmi View Post
What is worse than a huge, inconsistent and unpredictable wake? It might eat you up and spit you out, it might boot you into the heavens... its like gambling everytime you cut into the wake!
SO true.
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-23-2012, 12:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett_B View Post
If you still feel bad, just remind yourself that MC has been sure to promote that they have been so good at "designing world class wake hulls" for so many years that that they feel the need to disparage other brands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joXHoWz5vPM
Oh come now. Personally I thought those were FUNNY! At the time I owned 2 Nautiques and I loved the Nautique stab video.
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-23-2012, 1:02 PM Reply   
I'm not even going to begin to address all the comments in here. Half of you won't believe me and the other half will just agree so you can yell at CC guys. The one thing I will say is that I know how I feel about the boat, and I know what I have seen done behind that boat. Sure it's from the best riders in the world, but the technicality of things they are doing COULD NOT be done behind anything but a great wake.

But, honestly this thread is the epitome of the one thing I HATE about this industry. People and companies bashing other people and companies. Sure, we are all going to say things in jest, but the level things get to on here is rediculous. I, and every one I am closely associated with, are firm believers in doing what you do well, and leave it at that. If you do that, you don't have to beat anyone else down, and you will prosper. The attitude on here is what will eventually canabalize this industry.

So in closing, I don't care what kind of boat you like, take it down a notch...or ten. Constructive criticism blew out the window long ago.
Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-23-2012, 1:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by driving View Post
I'm not even going to begin to address all the comments in here. Half of you won't believe me and the other half will just agree so you can yell at CC guys. The one thing I will say is that I know how I feel about the boat, and I know what I have seen done behind that boat. Sure it's from the best riders in the world, but the technicality of things they are doing COULD NOT be done behind anything but a great wake.

But, honestly this thread is the epitome of the one thing I HATE about this industry. People and companies bashing other people and companies. Sure, we are all going to say things in jest, but the level things get to on here is rediculous. I, and every one I am closely associated with, are firm believers in doing what you do well, and leave it at that. If you do that, you don't have to beat anyone else down, and you will prosper. The attitude on here is what will eventually canabalize this industry.

So in closing, I don't care what kind of boat you like, take it down a notch...or ten. Constructive criticism blew out the window long ago.
Boom.
Old    Jon (supersonicmi)      Join Date: Sep 2005       05-23-2012, 1:45 PM Reply   
Can't speak for everyone, but some of us were just joking around having fun, apologies... Not biased against any boat or manufacturer. I'm sure the boat is sick, looking forward to seeing it at tour stop #4

I'd serisouly be interested in hearing more about the boat and the wake if there are any real insights anoyne would like to share?
Old    MCXSTAR (snork)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-23-2012, 2:00 PM Reply   
Eric, the production for most if not all 2013 models start in July of 2012
Old    PLR (dbdb)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-23-2012, 2:26 PM Reply   
Travis,
I agree. It has gotten a little out of hand, and we are way past constructive criticism. There is generally a biased against MC here for some reason I am not exactly sure of. I think 95% of us here know way too little about this boat to have as strong of an opinion as most here do. One life lesson I have learned (at times the hard way) is to get out infront of your mistakes or any controversy. I think now would be a good place for MC or even someone like yourself to get out ahead of this. This is just an idea but it could possibly help if a new thread was started by someone with some experience with it and said something along the lines of "here is a pic of stock ballast, 20 whatever mph at 70 however long feet." and then explained the characteristics of the wake along the lines of "it has a big ramp with a huge lip. The wash you see doesn't affect too much, but some weight in front will clean that up." Explain some of the challenges and also some of the great things it does. Maybe it would help, maybe it wouldn't, but it isn't going to hurt.

I don't think the attitude on here is going to canabalize the industry. People argue passionately about things they really care about and arguing passionately about our boats only means we really care about them.

On a side note, one of the great things about this sport is the people involved and the access we have to them as fellow wakeboarders and boaters. That is going to grow the sport more than a new XStar. It is great to have you and some other pros here on WW. Please share you experience with the new boat. It won't hurt.
Old    Bryan James (bjames)      Join Date: May 2012       05-23-2012, 2:34 PM Reply   
Reading all the posts here on WW. Here is what I dont get.

1. MC claims that all MC riders & engineers have signed off on the design/performance to which is now the 2013 Xstar - so there must have been concensus that the product was good to release.

2. A lot of people have drawn their own conclusions on the performance as if they themselves have personally driven / boarded behind the boat for some time in order to cast judgement.

3. Everyones diagonis seems to be based on a handfull of photos released/leaked and a few videos. IMO not enough information for fair judgement or to provide a full evaluation on the product performance.

4. How can ANYONE draw a definitive conclusion that the X-Star wake is not worthy or is considered flawed or secondary to others - too soon to tell - again lots of self proclaimed experts sounding their uniformed opinions.

Lets face it, we (except for a very few) dont know squat about how the new X-Star really performs under various weight configurations. We are spectators (arm chair athletes) casting judgement on a product very few but the best have even come close to. I really beleive that MC would have done their dudiligance before releasing such a high profile product to the public.

I have watched the videos posted on WW and can clearly see the approach side of the wake appears clean, then washes out as the rider lands on the oposite side. Which is normal if the boat is being pulled around by the rider. But I do not have enough info to cast my opinions.

Lets wait till after the PWT to see what the riders say about the new X-Star. Also the proof will be when the new Stars end up in the hands of the public.
Old    The Truth (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-23-2012, 2:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbdb View Post
Travis,
I agree. It has gotten a little out of hand, and we are way past constructive criticism. There is generally a biased against MC here for some reason I am not exactly sure of. I think 95% of us here know way too little about this boat to have as strong of an opinion as most here do. One life lesson I have learned (at times the hard way) is to get out infront of your mistakes or any controversy. I think now would be a good place for MC or even someone like yourself to get out ahead of this. This is just an idea but it could possibly help if a new thread was started by someone with some experience with it and said something along the lines of "here is a pic of stock ballast, 20 whatever mph at 70 however long feet." and then explained the characteristics of the wake along the lines of "it has a big ramp with a huge lip. The wash you see doesn't affect too much, but some weight in front will clean that up." Explain some of the challenges and also some of the great things it does. Maybe it would help, maybe it wouldn't, but it isn't going to hurt.

I don't think the attitude on here is going to canabalize the industry. People argue passionately about things they really care about and arguing passionately about our boats only means we really care about them.

On a side note, one of the great things about this sport is the people involved and the access we have to them as fellow wakeboarders and boaters. That is going to grow the sport more than a new XStar. It is great to have you and some other pros here on WW. Please share you experience with the new boat. It won't hurt.
Really good post. Co-signed. I respect Travis Moye too and it's about time someone spoke from the MasterCraft camp (of which Travis Moye is part). Thank you Travis Moye.

This discussion doesn't cannibalize the industry though. This thread got hot. Look at the snotty ass title. *Click!* I think Jernberg was right saying it's catty behavior. But it's actually helpful discussion and I wouldn't really change a thing.

Catty for sure.

Cats don't eat each other though they only eat Tender Vittles.

Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-23-2012, 2:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjames View Post
Reading all the posts here on WW. Here is what I dont get.

1. MC claims that all MC riders & engineers have signed off on the design/performance to which is now the 2013 Xstar - so there must have been concensus that the product was good to release.

2. A lot of people have drawn their own conclusions on the performance as if they themselves have personally driven / boarded behind the boat for some time in order to cast judgement.

3. Everyones diagonis seems to be based on a handfull of photos released/leaked and a few videos. IMO not enough information for fair judgement or to provide a full evaluation on the product performance.

4. How can ANYONE draw a definitive conclusion that the X-Star wake is not worthy or is considered flawed or secondary to others - too soon to tell - again lots of self proclaimed experts sounding their uniformed opinions.

Lets face it, we (except for a very few) dont know squat about how the new X-Star really performs under various weight configurations. We are spectators (arm chair athletes) casting judgement on a product very few but the best have even come close to. I really beleive that MC would have done their dudiligance before releasing such a high profile product to the public.

I have watched the videos posted on WW and can clearly see the approach side of the wake appears clean, then washes out as the rider lands on the oposite side. Which is normal if the boat is being pulled around by the rider. But I do not have enough info to cast my opinions.

Lets wait till after the PWT to see what the riders say about the new X-Star. Also the proof will be when the new Stars end up in the hands of the public.
You may be right on not experiencing the wake personally but you must be looking through mastercraft colored glasses is that is what you see in the videos and pictures. First of all the Harley video on alliance never once shows the takeoff side wake so we have no idea if it is clean or washed over. The Harley winning run video clearly shows the wake having wash on the takeoff side on a lot of his hits. Same with the original video posted in this thread. Maybe the boat isn't dialed, maybe it doesn't affect the the rider, I don't know, but it is definately(not sure how you cna even begin to say it isn't) washed out or has wash at the top of the wake on many if not most of the tricks on the approach side. The funny part to me is that this is the same kind of thing Mastercraft fan boys probably said about the 230 and the Tige 21v.

Hopefully they dial it in but from everything we can go off, which includes a few people that have actually ridden it, something needs to be tweaked to clean up the wake. One concern I would have is how on earth could they not get the wake clean for this tour stop? They had to of been trying like mad to get it clean by putting weight in the front or moving it around. I am not sure if the actual boat used for the tour stop had it but there are pictures of the boat with a trim tab. You are telling me they couldn't get the wake clean using that either? I guess the riders could of decided that they would rather have a larger/steeper wake then a clean wake so that is why they went that way? Still seems weird.
Old    Adrock (Moose99)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-23-2012, 2:59 PM Reply   
I appreciate Travis's post. And while he may not know this it still doesn't answer the question why release the boat at Surf Expo 2011, yet now it's called the 2013 X-Star. I'm not really trying to bash the end product of the boat, but it seems that Mastercraft got the launch of this boat horribly wrong which leads me to believe something may not be right with the boat. If Travis or anyone can answer these questions, I'd be stoked. Maybe I should just email mastercraft directly since there's not a dealer really close by.
Old    mojo            05-23-2012, 3:00 PM Reply   
If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen. Its called public relations and mc needs a new director. If nobody ever discussed these things there would be no reason for companies to improve. There are ways of doing things correctly and I don't care what Travis or anyone else says. This release was botched in a huge way. I think the most important thing to see here is that like many have said, this boat is really only geared towards two people: pro riders who get them for free and the mark suckerbergs of the world.(another collasal failure) its not like the days when a comfortable family could buy the same boat the tour uses. In that regard I think the newer boats are a slap in the face to those of us who actually live to shred. Most of us are relegated to used boats. Id have to give props to axis and Moomba for creating something that's actually achievable. I don't feel like getting into the trickle down effects and how that $ is used elsewhere bc it's not. Im glad riders can earn some money, but subsidizing their pay checks is not for me.
Old    Bryan James (bjames)      Join Date: May 2012       05-23-2012, 3:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
You may be right on not experiencing the wake personally but you must be looking through mastercraft colored glasses is that is what you see in the videos and pictures.
I guess what I was trying to say is that you cant judge a book by its cover. I am in the field of engineering, and I know for a fact that pics and videos alone are not enough to draw such harsh conclusions... there is always more to the story than we know based on the limited exposure we have.

Im am not taking sides here (however I do own a MC and may be bias), I just think its still premature to judge Perhaps the Xstar needs to be tweaked... I dont know

Last edited by bjames; 05-23-2012 at 3:29 PM. Reason: .
Old    Mike (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       05-23-2012, 4:22 PM Reply   
I think people are voicing some legitimate concerns.I think Mastercraft as a leading boat brand would be wise to pay attention.After all this is a forum filled with riders!!
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-23-2012, 4:24 PM Reply   
^^^^+1
Old    rod (rodltg2)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-23-2012, 5:20 PM Reply   
MC will probably just put on some sort of band aids to make it work. Just like they did on the 98-2000 Prostar 190 nicknamed the Deathstar. For those who don't know the story, that boat chinelocked and ended up on shore at AWSA testing. MC added a wing on the rudder, a fourth tracking fin and some bolt on rails. Then they called these " new " features the Positive Pressure Tracking system! So I wouldn't be surprised if the new star will have some " new " added features to fix the wake issues. ( if indeed there are any ).
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-23-2012, 5:50 PM Reply   
I'm not saying that this forum is cannibalizing the industry. I'm saying that this overall attitude between people and companies is. I think everyone is too worried about their piece of the pie, when they should be worried about making the entire pie bigger. I'm an entire pie bigger kinda guy.

I'm gonna go ahead and bow out of this thread. I think it's a great idea to start a new one with legitimate information. I can tell you boys there is no bandaid needed. You can all go to bed tonight knowing that the boat is great. I unquestionably have the best 2011 X Star made, and I can't wait to get the new one. You all will see very soon how amazing this boat is.

Until then, go out and have some fun behind the boat of your choice. It's way more fun than talking about someone else's.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       05-23-2012, 6:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by driving View Post
I'm not saying that this forum is cannibalizing the industry. I'm saying that this overall attitude between people and companies is. I think everyone is too worried about their piece of the pie, when they should be worried about making the entire pie bigger. I'm an entire pie bigger kinda guy.

I'm gonna go ahead and bow out of this thread. I think it's a great idea to start a new one with legitimate information. I can tell you boys there is no bandaid needed. You can all go to bed tonight knowing that the boat is great. I unquestionably have the best 2011 X Star made, and I can't wait to get the new one. You all will see very soon how amazing this boat is.

Until then, go out and have some fun behind the boat of your choice. It's way more fun than talking about someone else's.
With all due respect (and much is due) - not all of us are so lucky to be IN our boats for work, riding/pulling/etc. So we take our freetime throughout the day and evening to discuss boats. This is a discussion forum. We are discussing the video that was posted showing a washy wake and we are discussin the response from people 1. in this thread who have rode the wake and 2. the response from the pro riders from this weekends tournament that was documented on social media and websites..

I think almost every one in this thread would trade spots with you in an instant - spending most days in the "best 2011 x star made" - but unfortunately we don't. We sit in offices and cubes and pick up trucks dreaming about being on the water. Everyone in this thread would be an absolute *fool* not to trust you, take your word as gold and I also believe everyoen in here *wants* to believe. There aren't many who want to see a boat manufacturere anywhere fail.

We're just talking about the wake and the videos we've seen. I think we all realize it's "personal" for you - but I would assume for 99% of us - it isn't. Every brand has had it's "day" on Wakeworld where it has taken a lot of heat. The 230 was heavily criticized often for a washy wake on the landing side, the MB has been praised and flamed to high hell, Centurion/Supra is nagged incessantly regarding it's touchy side/side weighting issues. But there are also a million posts that praise all of the boats, the sport we all love to b around and the people who help us do that (manufacturers, riders, etc). I know you have vetted interest in this particular discussion but it's really no different than any of them. I think we all have the utmost faith that MC will turn this thing around somehow - hopefully as quick and easy as you have stated above.. This thread is simply a discussion regarding the video/rider response thus far mixed in with a couple trolls with too much time on their hands.

WakeWorlders gonna WakeWorld. Keep posting Travis - there is no member on this forum whose opinion and insight is more valued.. We're just a bunch of guys yapping about the **** we like to do/dream of since we aren't as lucky as those who do it day in/out.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-23-2012, 6:31 PM Reply   
Thank you Travis for taking time out of your day to log in and post up!!

Im proud to say that the only MC & Xstar Ive boarded behind was "the best of the best" and I cant wait to visit TBS again and ride behind the new Xstar! Hopefully you can get yours in that green flake from the Stars & Stripes MC!

Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-23-2012, 6:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by driving View Post
I unquestionably have the best 2011 X Star made, and I can't wait to get the new one.
Love the green boat and can't wait to see the new one Travis.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       05-23-2012, 9:13 PM Reply   
Has anyone contacted LON on this matter?
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-23-2012, 9:23 PM Reply   
I have been casually watching this thread, and I have some unbiased observations I'd like to share:

I really see both sides of this...

1) On one hand, I feel bad for MC because maybe folks are jumping to conclusions, and there definitely seems to be some hate going on here. Some of the CC fanboys show very little class in polluting this thread with their trolling.

2) On the other hand, I don't understand those who are rushing to MC's defense either. We have pics, videos, and first hand testimony. WW judges wakes by this same type of evidence every day, in thread after thread. Are we suddenly saying pics and vids aren't good enough evidence?? Also, for MC to come on here urging us to take the high road is comical. When has MC ever taken the high road vs. competition? Their dealer tactics, videos, and owners are all designed to knock the competition. Now MC wants a pass? If you can dish it out, you should also be prepared to take it.

Final question (and this is a serious one). When people openly wonder if MC needs to "tweak" the boat before launch, what exactly are you talking about? How do you tweak a hull without making a new mold (which is neither cheap nor quick)?

Despite point #2 above, I'm actually rooting for MC on this one.
Old    Ryan (9645glazier)      Join Date: Feb 2012       05-23-2012, 9:35 PM Reply   
Harley just claimed on his twitter that he landed a new trick today that is the first trick of its kind ever done, filming for the new X-Star video.
Old    Bill (Bill_Dad)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-23-2012, 10:58 PM Reply   
Harley did land a new trick one that has never been done before, i cant believe he did it, and yes behind the new xstar with a clean wake.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-23-2012, 11:13 PM Reply   
It's always a good idea to announce your new best-ever flagship wakeboard boat a year before it's ready.
It's also a great move to unveil a prototype of that boat months later at a pro comp with a crap looking wake.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-23-2012, 11:53 PM Reply   
I snagged some wake shots of this video for your review...

http://vimeo.com/42317818
Attached Images
     

Last edited by diamonddad; 05-23-2012 at 11:57 PM.
Old    mojo            05-24-2012, 12:10 AM Reply   
Mc has too many things going on. They make so many variations of the boats, the 300(so dumb), now produce cobalts I think, switched engine companys, trim tabs, etc. Travis Moye is someone I don't know, but seems to know what he's doing behind a wheel, but if mc were to disappear from him and correct craft stepped in...well what do you think will happen? Just saying that he can give informed info, but he isnt going to udder a bad word on this topic. Rightfully so. I do wish they would stepup on Tuesday and say hey folks, we need to redo a few parts to make it truly represent what we have established the last half century as our brand.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-24-2012, 6:09 AM Reply   
I thought Travis made some good points, but here is my issue. He talks about all the arguing, fighting, mud sligging, etc. I seem to recall Mastercraft being the most blatent ones at doing those activities, case in point Zane's Apple style "commercials" on YouTube that make fun of the other major brands. So now we should all just hold hands and get along when MC stumbles?

I still.think the bigger issue here is 23-24 foot boats that cost well over 100k. Absolute insanity.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            05-24-2012, 6:13 AM Reply   
Theyre not going to have a problem selling these boats for that price. Hell the G23 build slots are all filled through Sept at least as of late.
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-24-2012, 6:25 AM Reply   
I'd like to hear an interview from a rider that isn't paid by mastercraft or any other boat company for that matter. Salesman are paid to sell their product regardless of whether they think it is the best or not. A good salesman will make it to where you can't see anything but positive and the bad stuff is only a minor issue that the rest of the industry is still figuring out as well.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-24-2012, 7:02 AM Reply   
I am no lover of MC but I will give credit to the previous Star for having a world class wake.
The problem as I see it is MC has made no effort to show off the new wake in fact they have gone out of their way to cover it up. The few pics and first hand experiences have been less rather than more. For a company as boisterous and in your face as MC to come out with its best and most expensive flagship then put its tail between its legs and hide from questionable reviews is unprecedented. I think there is a problem with the boat but who cares what I think ? Not MC and surely not some here on WW. Its kinda interesting though they are having the same arguments on MC team. There was another world class super boat introduced recently and the biggest gripe then was price. No offence to Travis but I think it will take a lot more than [Trust Me] to turn this around. Are they taking orders ? Has anyone ordered one ?
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-24-2012, 7:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
I snagged some wake shots of this video for your review...
pic

pic

pic
Once again, I am not the MasterCraft fan club president or anything but now my name has been called out specifically in here so - ok. Great to see Travis Moye come in here. Thanks for that.

That high-up perched on the tower view is not one that has ever been a very effective viewing angle for much, good or bad wake, great or mediocre rider. Not sure why they bother with it aside from the awesome pics of a catwalk mounted to a tower, Justin Stephens style. Just in general I think the photo thing has run its course for now. Some of them look iffy, but some look great. The first-hand accounts are what's important to me and so is the company's voice. If anyone says "but look at this wash picture!" another picture can be brought out that cancels it out. That is how this thread has gone.

Hopefully I will be talking to someone closely affiliated with them today, who also happens to be an authority on this subject.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       05-24-2012, 7:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
Mc has too many things going on. They make so many variations of the boats, the 300(so dumb), now produce cobalts I think, switched engine companys, trim tabs, etc. Travis Moye is someone I don't know, but seems to know what he's doing behind a wheel, but if mc were to disappear from him and correct craft stepped in...well what do you think will happen? Just saying that he can give informed info, but he isnt going to udder a bad word on this topic. Rightfully so. I do wish they would stepup on Tuesday and say hey folks, we need to redo a few parts to make it truly represent what we have established the last half century as our brand.
MC does NOT produce Cobalts.

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