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Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2012, 7:24 AM Reply   
RJ is snowboarding for a couple days, back late today. I was just supposed to get the boat from GoldKey Boathouse and bring it home. I had to wait til now because of the weather, its dropped 10 inches or so in about a week. We planned on going out this weekend if weather permitted but on the way home the sun was peeking through the clouds and it was just too much for me. We dropped it in the water with no boards, gear, sacs, nothing. I just wanted to take a spin and see how it felt, and maybe throw a surf wake. Luckily my iPhone 4S takes some great 1080P video. I did some power turns to feel how it felt, very sporty. Not as sporty as the RZ2 but def more so than the 24Ve or RZ4. The thing about this boat, and you have to feel it, it is very stable. It doesn't seem sensitive to weight as much, and just feels rock solid. I got it up to 22 to see the wakeboard wake, and it stayed great, didn't have to adjust people, just very stable.

This boat has the pro ballast system, which is 2300 lbs. So 1000 up front in 2 tanks and 650 on each side in the back. I first filled up surf side front and surf side rear and then adjusted people and used the clinometer emptying the opposite rear sac until I got to about 8 degrees. You can see that in the video, the wake was good, but seemed a bit neutered. Wash was minimal, and gone completely with taps around 3. I could take taps up to 6 or 7 with no ill effects. So then I emptied the surf side front to about 25% and the wakesurf wake really took shape. I wish we had some boards. Keep in mind its just me, wife and 3 kids. In the video you can see how much room we have to work with. This boat is so deep, its amazing. Even the bow.

Anyway, here is a pic with the last setup we tried taps at 4, weight as described in the last paragraph:


IMG_1448 by wake9, on Flickr

Here is a quick and raw video I did. We should be going out this weekend with Dennis and Frank and Chris to test, then plan a break in day. Can't wait, this boat is def something special.

Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-22-2012, 7:47 AM Reply   
Looks great Robert ! Thanks for the wake pics of both the wakeboard wake and the surf wake.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-22-2012, 12:26 PM Reply   
Wow, that shot of the wake at the very end really shows the size. I've got to try that setup!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2012, 12:33 PM Reply   
That is just stock, we will be bringing more weight in the next few days. And note that all that video and pics is on my iPhone. So it would look bigger/longer on a go pro with the wide angle.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-22-2012, 2:59 PM Reply   
Gorgeous! Can't wait to see a pic of RJ boosting off of it!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2012, 3:41 PM Reply   
ok, so something else that has got me thinking. We were at the boat show and the new Sanger is supposed to have had the engine moved farther back, and this was done for better surf wake. It sounds cool, and we should have one at the May event...

Something happened with the Z3 that made me think of this, and also the mods we did to the 24Ve. So for a bit of history, the 24Ve wake we have now is just amazing, but it took a lot of work. Before the mods, the 24Ve lacked push, and you couldn't put weight up front, or it would neuter the wake even more. Then we worked with wakemakers and they removed the rear locker walls, moved batteries, etc, and made sacs that wen ALL THE WAY back to the transom. This did the trick. The 24Ve with that weight farther back made all the difference in the world. The RZ2 didn't have this issue, even the RZ4 didn't.

Wouldn't it be cool to put the boat on a scale of some sort and see where the boat is centered, where is weight concentrated in the boat, from stern to bow? Obviously on a VDrive it will be farther rear than a direct drive. But what about between VDrives? Last night, I woke up from sleep thinking about this and it dawned on me that I do have that ability.

So back to the problem I had yesterday that made me put all of this together. Our hydro lift in the slip was designed for the 24Ve. They hard mounted it in the slip so that we pull forward about 1 foot from the hitting the front of the dock and then lift. This centers the weight on the lift. We have been instructed that we can lift any of our tiges without mods, we just need to center the weight. This is easy to tell, when you lift the boat you can see the tanks sunk more in the rear or front than the other if not centered.

Here is a pic I have of the 24Ve, on the lift and centered.



It looks farther back than one foot from front, that is because you can see it moves back when lifted, and comes a bit forward when down.

So to center the RZ2, it should have to be moved farther away from the front of the dock, right? Since its 2 feet shorter, it should be about 1 foot farther back to center. However, to center, we actually had to keep it about the same distance from front, if not a bit closer. The RZ4 just a bit closer, but not much. They both were more "back heavy" than the 24Ve.

Now the Z3, it is shorter than the RZ4 and 24Ve, they are listed as 24 feet while the Z3 is 23, but I understand the Z3 is actually like 23'8" or something like that.

We moved the Z3 up about 6 inches from the front and lifted, and it was NOTICEABLY heavy in the back. The back of the tanks were def more underwater. We had to touch the bow to the front and lift. And even with that, I think we may have to move the whole lift back a bit.

You can see here, after lifting with it as far forward as possible:


IMG_1456 by wake9, on Flickr

Its still back heavy. I wonder, was the 24Ve engine mounted farther forward? Is the Z3 engine even farther back than all of these? Not sure, but its definitely weighted differently, and may be part of the reason it has more push and does ok with front weight, without any mods.

I am a bit concerned about posting this. I am afraid we are going to find out that duffy's next project is mounting his engine to the swim deck. ;-)
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-22-2012, 4:58 PM Reply   
^^^ this is why we have been running weight on the swim deck. I believe Duffy runs 250lbs on his swim deck. I really think it makes a big difference in push.

Ragboy: is your bimini on correct. It just does not look right, may be the angle of the pic.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2012, 5:11 PM Reply   
One of the poles wouldn't go all the way in in the back, and I didn't want to fiddle with it. Yes, its funky for the moment, but will be sorted out.

yeah, I know how he does that, and that makes sense. I have avoided that especially because I want to always have a boat that can go side to side as instantly as possible. This new Z3 is going to take that to a new level. Dennis has a great idea for doing this, but something he should share if he wants.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-22-2012, 5:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post

yeah, I know how he does that, and that makes sense. I have avoided that especially because I want to always have a boat that can go side to side as instantly as possible.
I run mine in the center of the swim deck. I would not have to move it if I every rode the dark side. My guess is that I will not have to do this on the 244 because i can get nearly 1,400lbs in the back corner.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2012, 5:27 PM Reply   
That makes sense. I don't think I will need to on the Z3 either, it doesn't seem to need it, and I really want to keep the step clear. That was one nice thing about making an aluminum deck on the 24Ve. Maybe should use steel. ;-)
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-22-2012, 5:53 PM Reply   
Nice ride. Wave look clean.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2012, 7:56 PM Reply   
Thanks, that taps plate really made a difference. Curious to try adding fins.
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-22-2012, 10:38 PM Reply   
Bummer we are going to miss tomorrow!! The wake looks pretty awesome!!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2012, 10:40 PM Reply   
Dennis can't make it either, I can still go Saturday, but its calling for rain, not tomorrow.
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-22-2012, 10:43 PM Reply   
Me n Chris will come up Saturday if you wanta go!! I can pick up stuff from CMS sat morning on way up if you still need me to!!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2012, 11:42 PM Reply   
Hopefully saturday works out, not going to be the same without you guys.
Old    Brian (99sportster)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-26-2012, 6:11 PM Reply   
Noticed in your video it looks like you have the new PTMEdge mirror. How do you like it?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-26-2012, 8:47 PM Reply   
@brian Looks amazing, no doubt about that. I love the simple adjustments and ability to fold it down to put the cover on. Its HUGE and I have never had a mirror that I can see that much, that well. All that great. I just need more time to see how it holds up in chop and stuff. But so far, I love it.

Old    Brian (99sportster)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-26-2012, 10:05 PM Reply   
Thanks for responding and posting the pic. I think I may ditch my Cipa Extreme for a mirror like yours.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-06-2012, 8:04 AM Reply   
Hey Robert --- can you tell me how high the Tige's sit (RZ2 and/or RZ3) with the tower folded down? Can they get in a 7foot garage at all?
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-06-2012, 10:33 AM Reply   
and by the way, i just saw your video mentioning California Marine Sports...glad to hear it, those guys have serviced my Nautique for years.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-06-2012, 11:24 AM Reply   
@tommy, y, we love CMS. Grant really takes care of his customers.

Here is a pic of it on the trailer with the tower down. RJ is 5'11". I don't think so, the boat is DEEP and that makes it pretty darn tall on the trailer.


IMG_1258 by wake9, on Flickr

You can also watch the unwrap video to see it folded down with us standing next to it. Even with the tires low on air, I don't think it would be close, maybe 8 feet. Like I said, the boat is DEEP.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-06-2012, 11:32 AM Reply   
Here is a still from the unwrap video, I am standing next to it, I am 6'2". I am guessing the windshield may make it, but close.



I do remember Tony at Tige telling me something about a tower folding below the windshield. But honestly, I don't know if that is on another boat, something for next year, or who knows. I get some of that stuff mixed in my head some times, too much info. ;-)

So I would contact Tige to get a definitive answer, but my guess is 7ft is too small.
Old    Joshua Creasman (tnvolgrad)      Join Date: Dec 2010       04-10-2012, 7:53 PM Reply   
The boat looks awesome Robert - looking forward to seeing it next month at the open. Love all the videos and input you provide to the sport.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       04-11-2012, 12:46 PM Reply   
I get mine in my garage with room to spare and my door is about 7' 10". I actually have more clearance then I did with my Malibu VLX, but that was the board racks on the Malibu that made it close. I'll get a more exact measurement the next time I drag it out...probably this weekend.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-11-2012, 12:47 PM Reply   
That's good to know, very cool.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       04-11-2012, 2:52 PM Reply   
Robert, does Rj like the wave better on the new boat, how do you compare it to your other tige's
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-11-2012, 7:46 PM Reply   
Yes, he like its much more. So far, our best waves have been on the RZ2 and the 24Ve. Keep in mind that the 24Ve lacked a good deal of push that the RZ2 has, and the RZ2 lacked the adjustability that the 24Ve has, also the 24Ve has an amazing transition, super smooth. The RZ2 transition is great, just not the same as the 24Ve and the RZ2 is also steeper and doesn't adjust down like the 24Ve. Once we modified the 24Ve to get weight ALL the way back to the hull, and it took a LOT of weight, then the 24Ve became RJ's favorite wake over the RZ2. So I guess that is the baseline. I speak best with video, so here you go. This video is of a bunch of various people, including Frank riding the 24Ve, and this is a good example of the 24Ve at its best with great conditions.

NOTE: These videos should queue right up to the surfing, skipping podcast stuff I did at the time.



Here is an example a bunch of people, many the same on the the RZ2, and a good day, good conditions.



Here is always one of the big tests for me, its frank wolter. How well and how comfortable he can surf at 330 lbs.



Compare all of that to this second surf session we had on the Z3, several people. Keep in mind, only second session, we still don't have our custom sacs and just getting started. Frank is the most amazing part at the end. In the videos above where Frank surfs, we surf him at a slower speed, like 10.6 and bring taps up as high as it will go. He needs that extra bit to give him plenty of push. On the Z3, we towed him at 11.2 and TAPS at 4, which is the same RJ surfs at. Same weight also. So he had the same setup, no need to adjust to give him more push, and at the end of the video, I left in his entire last run, because I have never seen him surf that long without getting tired and he was just so comfortable surfing. This video has some great side shots from chase boat also, which don't lie.



Frank's comment from this session he posted in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Wolter
Sunday was Cold and Fun!!

I weigh 310 lbs ...... add another 25 lbs for wetsuit and vest. There were times on my turn that I was as far back as Maddy in the above picture and I could surf right back up to the boat and that has never happened to me before!! It was pretty amazing!!

I hope you got some cool pics of Chris because he was " Launching " big time and he had one awesome grab where he threw the board around!!

That Tige Wake was the Best I have ever Ridden!! One Awesome Boat!!
And last, this is RJs first surf on the new Z3. The last time he surfed a Z3 was in Texas. He had ridden a couple of prototypes and they weren't perfect but he and dennis had a final ride on a windy/cold day in late november. So he knew it was good, but this is his first time on the production boat on our lake.

Old    Gary Anderson (F725)      Join Date: May 2010       04-12-2012, 3:00 PM Reply   
I stopped by the nearest Tige dealer to me yesterday (about an hour away)... to my surprise they had an RZ3 in the showroom! That is a really nice looking boat. Huge! The owner of the dealership said that he also got a RZ3 for himself. He said he'd be interested in bringing the boat to our surf camp this summer! It was a good visit.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-12-2012, 3:10 PM Reply   
ragboy, what did you guys do with your RZ2?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-12-2012, 3:30 PM Reply   
@gary yes, its huge and deep. You really notice when inside and sitting. The cockpit seems every bit as big to me as the RZ4, but I haven't measured. The bow may be a bit smaller than the RZ4 due to the loss of the pickle, but its still very big, and deeper bow than any other Tige I can think of, and probably lots of other boats.

@brendan Its sold, and we are actually getting ready to sell the 24Ve I think. Just too much stuff to maintain, but its going to be REALLY hard to let go of the 24Ve. The wake on the Z3 though finally makes us feel we don't need to go back to that boat, although it still has a fantastic wake.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-12-2012, 6:20 PM Reply   
Drop me a message if you sell the ve. I might be Up grading finally this year and I need a surf monster. Looking for a tige. Would love to know what u did to the ve to get that wave.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       04-19-2012, 7:47 PM Reply   
hey Ragboy, somewhere I saw a pic of the Z3 wake plate, could you post one up or direct me to it? Thanks bro.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-19-2012, 7:51 PM Reply   
Here you go:


IMG_1345 by wake9, on Flickr

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