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Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-24-2012, 3:43 AM Reply   
So we went out again today, this time with gear, ropes, boards, etc. First some notes. The new racks actually work with our thicker boards, like the Nano, the Soulcraft, TWP Signature, and they all have arch bar traction. You have no idea how happy this makes me. We had 6 boards in the boat, in the racks and in the surf bimini without being in the boat AT ALL.

I have been one of those guys that must piss of Danny@tige to no end. I miss the driver cup holder from my 2007 24Ve. The 2 driver cup holders low and to the right finally make me happy, and even better than the 2007 one. Easy to use, there are 2, and its not in a place that family shoves keys and wallets, etc, in so that I can't store my cold one.

The boat is so frickin deep, that its hard to take the same type of pictures I used to. I can't get the camera down in the walkthrough to get a good perspective on wake height. Still looks good, but just a note.

So last outing we just tested the pro stock system and the best setup was with me and the wife in the surf corner, surf rear full, surf front maybe 200 lbs or so, and then opposite rear filled until the clinometer at rest hit about 8 degrees. That setup seemed to work very well, and we are going to test it again with Frank and Dennis on board as soon as the weather breaks and they are off work. They couldn't get off work today, which was a bummer. We had a GREAT day as a family, though.

That stock setup didn't have enough weight in the back to require much up front. So todays outing we bought a jumbo 1100 lb sac and 2 400 lb vdrive sacs. We put the jumbo in the surf side rear locker and filled only the under floor 250 lb tank and then the jumbo as full as we can get above it. The Z3 lockers are very big and I bet I am getting close to 1000 in there. We then positioned the 2 400 lb sacs under the seats in front of the lockers.

We sat in the corner again, filled up surf front all the way and then started filling the opposite side up to get around 8 degrees. We had to fill up the stock opposite rear completely and then the 400 lb side sac on the opposite side. I am guessing we got about 300 in the side sacs. So that is 950 in water on the opposite side, ~ 1550 in surf rear and then 500 up front on surf side. That got us to about 8 degrees and we hit it. It didn't work, looked horrendous. The boat really acted strange also. The motor wasn't cavitating but it was revving higher, and felt like we were going faster than the 11 we set. I checked GPS and we were going 11.

RJ and I stopped and put our heads together. We go through this with new boats all the time, but this was different. The boat seems to be naturally weighted more to the rear than any of the other boats we have surfed. Like I said, we still can't get our lift balanced and are going to have to go through the expense of moving it back some. First we took out the rear opposite corner and left the opposite side sac full. Went to 11 mph and then moved people around, even amy and I. It helped, but still not right. It wasn't clean, or smooth.

So RJ says instead of adding weight to the opposite rear to get to about 8 degrees, lets fill up the opposite front. The Z3 front ballast is not 400 lbs on each side like the RZ2 or RZ4. It has 500 lbs per side up front so the pro stock system is 2300 lbs, not 2000. It seemed like it would be too much up front. Its a good thing the front is a deep pointed bow, and not a pickle. We filled it up and the boat sat fine. This thing really takes the weight. So that means we now have:

1550 surf rear/side
300 opposite side
1000 up front

With amy and I in the corner and the kids scattered its about 8 degrees and we go to 11. THERE IT IS. That did it, this thing needed all that weight up front when adding the weight in the back. It doesn't weight anything like the RZ2 or RZ4 and definitely not like the 24Ve. Add to that, that even with this setup, the rub rail is not near the water. Its maybe 3-4 inches above. I will be posting video soon, and you can see. RJ said the wake had even more push/power than the RZ2 has. He said it just feels like the wake is constantly propelling you forward in a way that is unique to other boats he has been on. On top of that, he said the shape is better than even the heavily modified 24Ve, which has been his favorite shape to date.

There is still a lot of room for tweaking and dialing, and I can't wait to get frank and dennis on board. It sure was great for the first surf. The wake is also VERY stable. You can move about a bit and alter speed and it just holds. Better than any of those other 3 boats. The only issues was a bit of wash, but its way better than it was in Texas to the point where it was just cosmetic, and not an issue. Even though it is cosmetic for the most part, I would love to see if that can be tweaked out, or some other variation in the taps plate, or who knows. With some tweaking I know we can also get a bit more length, but we have ALL SUMMER. Can't wait.

Here are some pics:

Even thought it was 64 out and 55 in the water, all of my kids wanted to go. It was awesome. Here's Jessie, she didn't last long in the cold.

Thomas doesn't do well in the cold, but he wasn't going to let Jessie out do him.

Maddie was a trooper as well, she braved it and had a fun session.

This picture is a bit weird, but I wanted to tweet a pic so I put down my canon and used my iPhone. It came out weird but it was the only time RJ went all the way back. The water was so cold he didn't want to risk falling. He was trunking it, because Thomas went out in a spring suit and he didn't want to look like a baby with his dry suit.

Similar one from the Canon 60D

RJ was freezing and hasn't surfed much since October. Just a few test sessions in between. He loves that Soulcraft fangtail and even though he seemed stiff was able to boost pretty well. Like I said, he loved the shape of the wake.

I really liked this picture, so I stylized it a bit. Gotta love aperture. I am guessing Wahlers will like this shot.

Great day today, the Z3 is surpassing our expectations.

All shots except the one with the iPhone 4S were shot with a Canon 60D camera with a 18-125 lens. Most shots are done with the focal length of 18mm unless zoomed in.
Old    Dallas Cowboys Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-24-2012, 5:39 AM Reply   
Great pictures Robert.The wave looks Awesome.Keep us updated.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-24-2012, 8:12 AM Reply   
Wave looks awesome! Love how long of a pocket it has! Tell RJ to keep up the great riding!
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-24-2012, 10:27 AM Reply   
Ragboy. I was wondering why you have the goal to achieve the 8 degrees list angle. Is that something that Tige recommends not exceeding for safety reasons, or is that a personal goal? Does 8 degrees work for both port and starboard list? Have you tried going beyond 8 degrees? Do you think 10 or even 15 degrees would give you a bigger/better wake while maintaining a comfortable condition with that boat? With our boat we have found that about 15 degrees port list with about 1.5 degrees bow up at rest gives us the best wake (while still maintaining a comfortable/safe ride under power).
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-24-2012, 11:53 AM Reply   
Howdy vman. BTW, Jesse and Thomas made that invite. So when you get it you have to set the date to come down for that ride. ;-)

Good question. I am doing 8 degrees because that is what we found that makes the best wake, which goes against what we are used to. The thing is, Tige engineered it this way. One of the first things Rick Correll told me was that they designed the boat to make the best surf wake with less list. A lot of that may have had to do with us posting pictures like this:

IMG_4880 by wake9, on Flickr

They felt that for the sport to keep moving forward it had to FEEL safe and be safe for average folks. I never saw it as much of a high priority to be honest, its kinda fun leaning it over. The thing is, though, now that I get to enjoy it, I am glad they did it. We had a good deal of weight in the boat this time out and Amy just smiled away, you would never know. Of course you can feel that weight driving, the engine works harder, but she isn't driving, just chilling. Don't get me wrong, Amy isn't screaming or heading for the exit when we surf, but I would def say that the 24Ve mods and the way we make that wake is over the top for her, she just never feels comfortable in that boat when we are surfing it like that. Since the 24Ve was an experiment, she was all good. But she would probably give me a rough time if our regular wakesurfing boat was like this.

So if you list it over too much more, the wake doesn't shape right. And the easiest way to find that correct setup is to measure the angle. Tige said they were going for 7 degrees, but I have found it likes a bit more, but not much. If you didn't measure the angle you would have to go by feel or trial and error. It allows you to get back to what you know works, quick. I wouldn't be surprised if Tige is going to build some type of clinometer in the touch screen. I can only say that because I have no clue if they are doing that, but I hope they do. If I did know, I probably would be bound and gagged about it.

Now I am guessing the next question would be "how did they engineer it that way?". I am not completely sure in the sense that I don't think they said, "I bet if we change the angle of the afusticator it will require less list". I think they were testing stuff on their R&D platform and saw something promising and went with it. I can confirm that they communicated their desire to design a wakesurf boat that required less list last year some time.

Where wake9 came in helping them with the hull design and the wake was tuning it after testing and explaining the importance of the shape, and adjustability, and probably most significant, the quality and smoothness of the transition. They took what they had already done and our feedback and then produced the boat you see above.

Hope that all makes sense.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-24-2012, 6:06 PM Reply   
Heh, heh.....You said afusticator....

Well, there is no way I can turn down an invitation from Thomas and Jesse. So, when It arrives we will have to makes some plans.

That is kind of what I thought was the reason for the 8 degrees. The hull design must have a point of no return, so to speak. But, I'm sure you will test it past that point (if you haven't already).

I think it's great that the manufacturers are considering the future of our sport in their boat designs. Looking forward to getting a lesson from RJ. What does he charge these days? I hope I can afford him.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-24-2012, 7:37 PM Reply   
Lol about how much. It would just be great to have you guys out on the boat. RJ just loves to surf, let the real pros charge for it. ;-)
Old    R Harrington (Rob17)      Join Date: Oct 2010       03-25-2012, 7:33 AM Reply   
That just looks beautiful! Great to see the kids playing with a a new toy! Can't wait to meet you guys on the lake.

Mike V. when ya come this way for a ride plan an extra evening for a couple of cold Sierra Nevada Pints. Still have an a spare room for you guys!
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-25-2012, 11:36 AM Reply   
Ah man, I love Sierra Nevada! Rob, I look forward to sharing a cold one with you.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-25-2012, 1:39 PM Reply   
@rob @vman @wofrankwo @dennis

What about Sunday 4/1? Break in the Z3 day on Lake Oroville. Its a sunday we can plan a BBQ at our home on Saturday night, fire and cigars, then hit the lake and break it in wake9 style. What do you guys think? We have a brand new pontoon we will use for Chase and Chill, all kids welcome. We can even break out the wave runners for those times not on the surf boat. Dennis, we will probably need Bre if possible to help with the camera work.

@vman we have a guest house so you and Angie can fly in and stay here no problem. Frank and Dennis sleep anywhere. ;-)

Mitch will also be coming up on that day, so it could be very epic. I am sure I could squeeze some demo boards from CMS or a manufacturer or two.

Those new signatures done yet dennis? Am I missing anyone? Don't want to leave anyone out.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       03-25-2012, 2:08 PM Reply   
The boards are being tested and are out of state. The results so far are very promising.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-25-2012, 3:59 PM Reply   
Ah crap! A junior puke like me has to fly that weekend. I hate when work gets in the way of the search for epecicity (new word).
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-25-2012, 6:06 PM Reply   
That ain't right, man. This sounds like it could shape up to being a great time and a great memory. Just turn on Otto pilot. ;-) I guess we can let Angie call you and fill you in on the good time.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-25-2012, 7:38 PM Reply   
I'm glad she doesn't read this forum, she'd ditch me in a heart beat. Maybe never come home.
Old    R Harrington (Rob17)      Join Date: Oct 2010       03-26-2012, 11:21 PM Reply   
Sounds good to me. Wetsuit is ready. I think Janelle is in as well. Yes!!!
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-27-2012, 12:54 AM Reply   
Chris and I for sure ...... Toni will know later this week ....... we come up sat about 6?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-28-2012, 3:58 AM Reply   
Gonna be a fun day on Sunday, no doubt. Gonna miss the Vilands for sure.

So we finished the video for the first wakesurf session, but it ended up being a full blown podcast, so I am not going to post here. But I did pull a still frame for you...

Still frame from video by wake9, on Flickr

That is competition weight, you can see the rub rail still way up out of the water, the vents are no where near the water, and not much of a list. Pretty cool.
Old    John (sangermadness)      Join Date: Sep 2011       03-28-2012, 9:33 AM Reply   
Awesome write up Ragboy! Good to see you jazzed up about the new ride. Im sure it is going to meet any and all expectations! I am hoping to get up to Camp far west to check out the event. Frank has offered for me to meet up at the delta just have had so much going on . One of these days I would love to learn from you guys. By the way that wave in the last pic is so SICK!

Last edited by sangermadness; 03-28-2012 at 9:36 AM.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-28-2012, 10:23 AM Reply   
Looking forward to meeting you.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       04-02-2012, 7:14 PM Reply   
looks nice.

would love to check them out, but i still can't believe that Tige doesn't have a dealer within 300 mile of us in Norcal.
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       04-02-2012, 8:43 PM Reply   
Tommy, just wait

I rode behind the Z3 yesterday and it was sick! The wake has such a great lip
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-02-2012, 10:34 PM Reply   
@tommy, yeah, we had a great time, should have some great pics up later tonight, and maybe a quick raw video.

Yes and no on the dealer. You can't walk in a showroom yet and see them on display, but hopefully soon. But CMS is certified to service them from Tige and PCM and CMS does excellent service, its where I have been going the last 2+ years, and like I said, tige and PCM authorized. So if you want a demo on the Z3 just get a hold of me, I can give you a demo you will never get with a dealer cuz we will just surf and have fun. Then if you want to order, I can hook that up for you until the dealer thing is fully done. I don't have any desire to sell boats, not my thing, but I can definitely do the demo and hook you up with someone that can help you get the boat direct, and then you know service is covered with CMS.
Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-02-2012, 11:33 PM Reply   
Sunday was Cold and Fun!!

I weigh 310 lbs ...... add another 25 lbs for wetsuit and vest. There were times on my turn that I was as far back as Maddy in the above picture and I could surf right back up to the boat and that has never happened to me before!! It was pretty amazing!!

I hope you got some cool pics of Chris because he was " Launching " big time and he had one awesome grab where he threw the board around!!

That Tige Wake was the Best I have ever Ridden!! One Awesome Boat!!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 12:45 AM Reply   
Dude, wait to you see these pics of Chris. That kid is going to give Chase a run for his money when it comes to airs. The thing is, the wake was messed up for his run, and it was blown out. Yet he went into orbit. I can't wait to get him back when it is warmer and we got the wake dialed and the wind isn't blowing. We may have to put a net in the boat. I got some great pics of you and mitch. I will get them on flickr tonight, and post a couple here. Dude, nose bleed airs.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 1:31 AM Reply   
So start with the goofy side, same setup as the beginning of this thread, but a couple more people. However, I was NOT in the boat. I was in the chase pontoon with the Canon 60D.

This isn't a surf pic, but have to share this one of Dennis. You don't catch him smiling much, but I caught him here. He took of his wetsuit and then jumped in the water to "relieve himself". I asked if he was feeling any better since he was sick and he said he still had a sore throat. I suggest that might be because his nuts were probably in there now. ;-)

So Rob and Jannelle Harrington were out with us, and Jannelle is one of my new Wakesurf guinea pigs. There is a bit of a story behind that, I will summarize. ;-) When we went to Texas to help with the Z3 testing and prototype we very much stressed adjustability and the transition. Jannelle rides a skim board and is not a newb, but not an expert either and she is more sensitive to a wake that is too steep or has an abrupt transition. You can watch her riding on video especially and you can really see the benefits or weaknesses of a wake. She rode our 24Ve at the last polar bear event and loved it, wanted to take it home. She rode the 2012 Tige RZ4 the next week and struggled holding her edge on the steeper wake. The Z3 was engineered to be more adjustable and to have a nice transition. Here is a good shot of her and you can see the transition pretty well. She enjoyed the wake a lot. Can't wait to get her out when its warmer. It was VERY cold, air temp of 52-58 at best and water temp of low 50s.

Couple good pics of RJ.

Good picture of the length from the side.

This one is a good shot of the height, its very difficult to get a good shot from the side that shows the height. The Z3 makes a much larger hole than the other boats we have had and so you have to be right up next to the boat to see it. But RJ is down in the trough to get speed for an air so it shows it.

This is a great picture of the crew in the boat, but also shows how well the board storage on the Z3 works even with thicker boards and arch bar style traction.

Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 1:42 AM Reply   
Moving on to the regular side... I am skipping Dennis for now, but you can see some great pics on flickr. Dennis was sick and didn't ride as much.

Rob Harrington had a blast on his TWP, he kept whooping and hollering, so I am pretty sure he enjoyed the ride. I think there was even a few YeeHahs thrown out.

Now on to mitch. At first, the wake was not right. We don't have our plug and play custom sacs yet, so we are still manually filling a few sacs and we figured out later that we screwed up in the rear locker and so didn't have all the weight on that side right. It was too cold and windy to take it out and redo it, so we made do. But about halfway through mitch's run we moved enough people around and stuff and it wasn't great, but very good, and he really liked it, as he said above. He kept talking about the lip.

Ok, so this is a bit off topic, but when I saw this shot, and mitch's form fitting wetsuit and girlish figure, I thought to myself, we gotta do everything we can to keep this boy out of prison.

Ok, so here are the shots that show him enjoying the lip. I haven't seen mitch get air like this before.

Check out this solid indy grab.

Mitchy the kid is launchin.

Speaking of launching Chris Wolter had the worst conditions. The wind got bad, and that problem in the rear locker was the worst and we were almost going to just come in, but let him ride. He had a great attitude and made the most of it. The wake was short and steep and just not right during his session, but he still launched. The first big air he did, several of us stood up, it was that big.

Nose bleed warning. Keep in mind, low 50s in the air and water, full wetsuit and booties and substandard wake and wind.

Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 1:51 AM Reply   
Now on to my buddy Frank. Like Frank said, he is 310 lbs and the boat has got to have push for him. Since the wake was messed up for Chris, I got in the boat from the pontoon to make it better for Frank. Something happened that I have not seen yet. Frank has surfed on every one of our boats. On every one we have to turn the taps up higher to like 6 and slow down the boat to 10.6 mph or so to steepen the wake for lots of push. Works great but shortens it up a bit. Frank rode at 11.2 and taps at 4. RJ rides 11.4 and taps at 4. Frank also rode longer and more comfortably than I have seen him ride before. You can see in this picture, the rubrail is a few inches off the water, just like with everybody else.

It was a great day and lots more pictures in our flickr feed. I can't wait to get the regular guys out again when we have our custom sacs and its warmer. The Z3 is still exceeding our expectations, especially pushing frank with the same setup as RJ. We also really got a chance to test the list angles and see that when you list this boat over to 10+ degrees the wake goes out of shape. It wants that magic 8 degrees or so of list only.

Way too much fun.
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       04-03-2012, 10:17 AM Reply   
Great pics guys, and isn't this what it's all about.....Getting family and friends together on a great surf boat and "shred our faces off" (thanks Wheelhouse). Hey, wait a minute! Is that a snuggy Dennis is wearing?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 11:12 AM Reply   
Dennis makes his own surf snuggles. I actually have one also. Can't go out in the cold without one. One of Dennis' hidden talents, he is a seamstress. ;-)
Old    Nick Wiersema (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-03-2012, 12:40 PM Reply   
Nice looking wave Robert.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 2:19 PM Reply   
Thanks, having fun. Really looking forward to getting Chris back out in good conditions. It was pretty amazing.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-03-2012, 5:03 PM Reply   
nice wave, but whats up with the young bucks in booties???? Understandable for the old guys, but..............
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-03-2012, 5:05 PM Reply   
I see RJ is the only one that can bare the frigid waters of Cal!!i
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 5:17 PM Reply   
lol, the water this time of year is cold, coming from the mouth of the feather river from the sierra nevada, around the tahoe area. But you would have to ask Chris Wolter and Mitch about that. RJ is more used to it, but he didn't last long. Here he is about at the end of what he could take.

IMG_3001 by wake9, on Flickr
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       04-03-2012, 5:33 PM Reply   
Robert you failed to point out that Rob did his first 360 ever. To say he loved the wake is an understatement.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 5:37 PM Reply   
Dude, I didn't know it was his first EVER! I didn't get a good pic of the 360, but working on video, was saving that for the video.

This was my favorite picture of him finishing a 360, but maddie didn't get the one on camera where he completed it, I am sure we got it on the go pro though...

IMG_1961 by wake9, on Flickr
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-03-2012, 5:44 PM Reply   
Ok, I found it, good news is I got it in 60FPS so we can see it slowmo, but for some reason the camera was turned on just when he started it, so we only got 3/4 of the 360, but we at least got the victory dance and the dismount. LOL, Rob knows how to celebrate.

Old    Frank Wolter (wofrankwo)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-03-2012, 6:11 PM Reply   
Rob was Incredibly Estatic about his 360 and he should be ...... it was so quick and smooth and effortless and his Celebration was worth watching as well!!

RJ was freezing his buns and that is the only time I've ever seen him give in to anything and want to get out of the water ...... there was a really cold north wind and when the boat was heading into it ...... Shivers!!

Chris wears his booties out of habit from being in the ocean so much lately plus Mitch rides with us in the delta and it's far colder there then in the lakes and Comfort is King!!
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-03-2012, 10:05 PM Reply   
Just razzin the young guns! Frank lol....I like the feel of bare feet, besides the fact I rarely get cold. Couple weeks go we went and water temp was 46! thats pretty much the coldest so far for me, besides wakeboarding in december, which doesn’t count due to the boots. I got two sessions in before my feet felt frost-bitten!! Hopefully we can repeat this horror this Sat!
Old    R Harrington (Rob17)      Join Date: Oct 2010       04-03-2012, 11:38 PM Reply   
What a fantastic day. The wave was great but the company was fantastic. What a fun group of people. Everyone got to ride and everyone got to give each other a hard time for something.

The Z3 is a really neat boat. I had as much fun driving and looking in all the nooks and storage spots as I did being behind the boat. I had never used the touch screen before and after a bit of instruction from RJ (and a bit of patience) I had no problem feeling comfortable behind the wheel. My wife and I have been trying to figure out a boat situation. I ride regular side and prefer a steeper surf style wake. Janelle on the other hand or foot prefers goofy side with a shallower wake for skim style. This boat worked well for both of us. We had a great time.

I sure enjoy this sport. It brings fun people and fun times. Sometimes hoots sometimes hollers but always smiles!!!!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-04-2012, 1:35 AM Reply   
Rob, your words are perfect. When we went to Texas that is EXACTLY what we wanted to be able to bring to the surf design of the Z3. I even created a video of you and jangle and showed it to Tige during our meetings. A boat that worked well if you liked that more surf style steeper wake, but also could work for the preference of a skim boarder that liked a more shallow wake. All the while having an excellent transition and lip. That is why you and Janelle are our newest wakesurf guinea pigs!

Wait til you see the video, its done, just preparing for upload.
Old    John James (johnboyy7)      Join Date: Apr 2011       04-04-2012, 1:01 PM Reply   
wow. this makes me excited.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       04-04-2012, 6:33 PM Reply   
Yeah, we will have fun when you come out John. What kind of boat do you have? Sorry if I should know, but it all gets mixed in my head sometimes.

Check out the video with Frank riding at the end, and Rob's first 360.


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