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Old    Heath Patton (sidetracked3)      Join Date: Jun 2009       03-16-2012, 2:21 PM Reply   
I am in the process of selling my Supra and have my mind set on a 2012 Malibu VLX but started looking at the 210's. I could get the 210 with less options or the Malibu loaded up for about the same money. I have not really looked at the 210's but which would you choose?
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-16-2012, 2:45 PM Reply   
Go sit & RIDE in both. Youll see.
Not a bad problem to have. Both redik boats. Cant go wrong with either.
Old    - (Txjole)      Join Date: Dec 2011       03-16-2012, 3:00 PM Reply   
Better yet, go sit in both that are 5 years old and I think this question will answer itself.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-16-2012, 3:12 PM Reply   
go drive both... big difference in handling.
go sit in both... big difference in feel and interior lay out and options
go ride both... considerable difference in wake shape... both are bangin and so much fun.
dealer location and reputation.

those 4 things are all that really matters. both have good warranties, both boats have been around for decades, both boats hold up very well, and both boats are head turners.

have fun, what a great problem to have...
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-16-2012, 6:33 PM Reply   
210 better warranty, better construction,better resale,better interior layout.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-16-2012, 6:41 PM Reply   
I think correct craft are the best made boats on the market, but not enough to explain their prices. I also think the interior layout is terrible. It all depends on what you like best. When I bought my 07 VTX it was between it and an 06 SAN 210, the prices were abotu 3k apart. The VTX had much more storage, I know the new SAns have more than they did before, but I've heard the wake isn't as good, and the the VTX was much more plush and the key parts worked much better. Right now I could get about 45k for my VTX, while I could get similar pricing on an 07 SAN 210, so resale is about the same. I've ridden many SAn wakes and like them, very abrupt and easy landings, but I also like the rampy wide wakes of the malibu. Demo the boats, figure out what you like best about each. If it's a tie on what you like then if you get more wiht the VLX go that way, resale is really going to be pretty equal down the line
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            03-16-2012, 6:57 PM Reply   
Like others have said...they drive very different, some have better options than others, wakes are very different.

And before anyone chimes in...hes not asking about MC, MB, Axis or Tige so no need to get it off topic
Old    Troy Deschamps (TroyD)      Join Date: Jan 2012       03-16-2012, 7:47 PM Reply   
Go with the Nautique, don't be a fool!
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-16-2012, 7:51 PM Reply   
LR3... nice. thanks for preempting any of that nonsense.
Old    Rob (Becks62)      Join Date: Oct 2011       03-16-2012, 8:24 PM Reply   
I had a 08 VLX which was 6 months over on warranity when my hull blistered, Malibu would not give me the time of day in regards to this issue just kept saying your over on the warranity good luck with your problem, $15.000 damage no guarenttees on the repair work. Long story short my dealer stepped up to plate and looked after me with a new 2011 ,210. Mailbu probally has fixed a lot of there issue's with the new boats, you have to test drive both boats before you make a decission, i was so impressed with the Nautique I wish i bought it 1st, no rattles, handles like a race car on the water, great wake just a solid boat all round. There are pro and cons on both boats i just had a bad experience with Mailbu but prefer the Nautique.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-16-2012, 8:49 PM Reply   
I had a Nautique and it gave me 15 years of trouble free performance.The wakes are awesome on both boats.The new Malibus handle great.It's a tough choice,but a good problem to have.Good Luck!
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-16-2012, 8:58 PM Reply   
If my wife posted here she'd tell you SAN all the way, I personally like the look and feel of malibu better. Great boats to choose from
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-16-2012, 9:14 PM Reply   
I currently have a 2004 VLX. My next boat will definitely be a 210! Cosmetically my Bu looks bad but the power train is 830 hours strong. Love how the teaks wake, how quiet they are, and preform!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-16-2012, 11:34 PM Reply   
I just ordered a 2012 VLX... below are the reasons I picked the Malibu.
  • G3 tower is my favorite tower of all. Sturdy, sexy, easy to raise and lower with the gas shocks regardless of how much speaker weight is up there. The perfect combo of form and function.
  • Maliview. Best looking screen/dash in the biz, imho. I loved the look since it came out in 2009. Love all the presets: speed, ballast, wedge, and auto pull (more on that below). We have a big family, and Iím the main driver, so Iím anxious to try anything that makes the driving experience more automatic so I can focus on the rider and watching out for debris in the river.
  • Ballast. I am really excited to try ballast in four different locations. Malibuís new pumps and wider hoses have reduced fill time to something like 2 minutes. Combine that with the Maliview presets and I basically wonít have to think about ballast at all after I get everybodyís profiles set up.
  • Auto Pull is a sweet new feature. Basically I can program the boat to memorize how I pull up my 12 year old daughter (light on the gas) vs. how I pull up a buddy (heavy on the gas). Then I can add that to their Maliview profile so regardless of how I throw down the stick, they will get a consistent deep water start every time! No more blaming Dad for not getting up! Ha!!
  • Handling. The VLX drives like a sports car. I have always loved the feel of a Malibu when you are behind the wheel.
  • Lots of other things I appreciate about the Malibu: super deep bow, no carpet in the storage area, speed sensitive volume, rampier wake, clean wake at speeds < 20mph, Boatmate trailers, love the board racks, etc.

To be honest, I didn't even consider a Nautique, and they are available here at the same dealership so that wasn't the issue. I just can't get past the strange interior. Not much of a fan of the new dash or the towers either. If I don't like how a boat looks (particularly the insides where we spend most of our time), then why bother with a demo? Also pricing. As you have discovered, Nautique costs more and I was already feeling sticker shock with the Bu. I'm not knocking Nautique. I'm sure they are built to last. Just giving you my opinion, as I was recently in your shoes.
Old    Bu Coo (brett564)      Join Date: Jul 2006       03-17-2012, 12:10 AM Reply   
Interior space is a big factor in this one. the VLX will sit more people than the 210. I know both boats very well, and unless you have some kind of huge bias against Malibu, then there is no way you can choose the 210 over the VLX.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-17-2012, 6:37 AM Reply   
DBC

What dealer did you order your new BU from?
Old    Joe Lanman (Joe)      Join Date: Feb 2011       03-17-2012, 8:57 AM Reply   
I agree that Interior space is a big factor but I completely disagree that the VLX will sit more people than the 210. To me the seating layout is basically identical. The major difference in boat space is storage. Malibu has no bow storage and the batteries placement completely dominates the passenger storage compartment. IMHO the 210 has better access to the rear lockers to assist wake and surf boards.

I do not own either boat and would not disagree that either boat will be an excellent choice. I totally get IXFE reasons to buy a Malibu VLX and why he did not buy a 210. I am currious to know how he is going to handle the storage issues (wake boards, water skies, surfboards, anchor. bouys, life jackets etc.) Like I said the only knock I have on lthe VLX is storage.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-17-2012, 9:21 AM Reply   
was kind of surprised that the Sac dealer was selling the 210 for $71k at the boat show, and the 230 for $78k --- not that it's cheap, but it's the ballpark of what I see used ones in the classifieds.

Granted, those were without the digital dash, no spinner racks, or bimini...but the pricing was better than I thought it would be....

I'm sure Malibu's hold their value well too, but speaking from experience, i'm very happy with how the value has held up for our '02 SAN we bought new...
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-17-2012, 9:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhunter View Post
DBC

What dealer did you order your new BU from?
Active Water Sports

http://www.activeh2o.com/

They have some sick VLX's and 210's in stock. Here are two in particular with similar color schemes that offer a good visual comparison.

This thread is overdue for some pics anyway! These are both HAWT boats, but there are definitely things I like about the Malibu interior and transom area better. But it's all personal preference.



























Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-17-2012, 9:58 AM Reply   
It's hard to look at those interior pics and not come to the conclusion that the Bu is more comfortable inside. That goes for the drivers seat and the lounge seating.

To be fair, Nautique seating is designed to transform allowing people to face the rider. So if that's important to you, the Nautique will appeal to you.

Is anybody familiar with the middle captains seats in the Chrysler and Dodge minivans? They fold and tumble beneath the floor. Great feature right...? But go sit in them compared to the competition. They are hard, skimpy, and uncomfortable. They have to be in order to allow for the storage option. That's what the Nautique seats remind me of. In order to give the seats the ability to transform into rear facing seating, it appeard to me that they sacrificed comfort. I sat in one for kicks on the showroom floor. The drivers seat feels small, narrow, and uncomfortable. I'm 5'11 185 lbs. I can't imagine being any bigger in that seat.

But like I said, some folks will love the ability to move the seats around.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-17-2012, 10:28 AM Reply   
awesome pics DBC. Those 2 boats are SICK!
yeah - i dont get where some say they dont like the interior layout of the nautiques?? - as you can see above- they are traditional wrap around seating like all the rest, BUT give you the option of moving the rear bench(flipping up a back rest of the rear bench) and lifting some others to allow rider facing seats. SO this "i dont like the interior layout" baffles me. I just dont get it.

Like DBC - my dealer sells both Malis & CC as well and i was in the same exact position - it was either a VLX or 210. And i went the other route with the 210.
Regarding the interior - the malis seats feel nice loungy, lazyboy seat like. Nautiques feel very different - very sports car like - very soft, plush vinyl, and a tighter feel. Both Just completely different. If you like soft fluffy couches(malis) if you like tight high end leather couches(CC) - thats the only way i can describe the difference. Both awesome in their own way.

I was still undecided at the lot, but when we took both boats out to the water(at the same time) - is when I felt the difference immediately and went with the 210. You dont get the entire story of the nautique till you drive one. Thats where I said "ooohhh i get it now"......
But like many have pointed out - if youre a serious rider- the wake preference should be your deciding factor - both completely different - the one you like better wake wise should be the one you go with -its that simple. I like steeper wakes, versus rampier wakes. So the 210 won the wake preference for me as well.

You have an AWESOME problem...
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-17-2012, 10:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
The major difference in boat space is storage. Malibu has no bow storage and the batteries placement completely dominates the passenger storage compartment.
The Malibu has plenty of bow storage if you skip the bow ballast option. It just so happens that most people value the bow ballast so they order it (I certainly did). But if bow storage was a deal breaker for me, I would have skipped the bow ballast. The point is that Malibu gives you the option whereas Nautique doesn't give you the option. Since when is choice a bad thing?
  • Malibu Ballast: 900 lbs (two rear tanks + one belly tank) + 350 optional bow tank = 1,250 lbs.
  • Nautique Ballast: 900 lbs (two rear tanks + one belly tank)


As for the storage beneath the observer's seat, again I'm going to respectfully disagree with your comments. Both of these boats have "infrastructure" built in there. For Malibu it's two batteries. For Nautique this is where they chose to stick the cooler, and it's much bigger than two batteries. Also it's positioned closer to the seat back taking away even the litle bit of storage the Malibu has there (sorry, coudln't find a pic of the Bu battery setup)





Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
I totally get IXFE reasons to buy a Malibu VLX and why he did not buy a 210. I am currious to know how he is going to handle the storage issues (wake boards, water skies, surfboards, anchor. bouys, life jackets etc.) Like I said the only knock I have on lthe VLX is storage.
The only thing I kept in the bow of my MB was the anchor (which we only use at Lake Shasta). So I'll either find a spot for it in the rear, or leave it home on our day trips to the river and only bring to Shasta. I'm not worried about it.
Old    Joe Lanman (Joe)      Join Date: Feb 2011       03-17-2012, 1:30 PM Reply   
IXFE, Thanks for your response and all the pics. We both have a car and boat addiction and I have been looking at Malibu for sometime and like the bow ballast option but am concerned about storage. I rarely use my anchor as well but I also store my bouys and dock line in the bow. I lke some of the storage features Nautique has but the Malibu cockpit is in a leage of its own. When the time come it will be a tough decision for me and am intenrested in other folks point of view.

By the way Active Water Sports is a great dealership. I travel from Eastern Washington because of their service, staff, and ownership. Currently on boat number 2 from them.
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       03-17-2012, 2:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by durty_curt View Post
I currently have a 2004 VLX. My next boat will definitely be a 210! Cosmetically my Bu looks bad but the power train is 830 hours strong.!
wash and wax helps boats stay looking good? but really, how does it look bad? I had a 2002 Vlx that I got rid of last year that was in great shape, except the carpet took a beating due to a few drunk chicks.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-17-2012, 3:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
IXFE, Thanks for your response and all the pics. We both have a car and boat addiction and I have been looking at Malibu for sometime and like the bow ballast option but am concerned about storage. I rarely use my anchor as well but I also store my bouys and dock line in the bow. I lke some of the storage features Nautique has but the Malibu cockpit is in a leage of its own. When the time come it will be a tough decision for me and am intenrested in other folks point of view.

By the way Active Water Sports is a great dealership. I travel from Eastern Washington because of their service, staff, and ownership. Currently on boat number 2 from them.
When I get my VLX in May maybe I'll post some pics of how I make all our stuff fit. I'm sure I'll find a home for even the anchor. And we also bring along bumpers and dock lines. I'm already thinking I'll use the warming tray for all our ropes. We'll see...

Yes, AWS is a great dealership. It's hard to even call them a dealership. They are more like a great group of guys who are friends first, boat sales/service second.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-17-2012, 6:37 PM Reply   
"It's hard to look at those interior pics and not come to the conclusion that the Bu is more comfortable inside. That goes for the drivers seat and the lounge seating."
+1
but, I thought it was a no brainer and I just asked my son and he said the Nautique looked "hipper" so what do I know?
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       03-17-2012, 6:40 PM Reply   
Miguel, besides the seats, what driving differences did you notice? Handling, chop, etc?
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-17-2012, 6:56 PM Reply   
the 210 is so quiet, nothing in the boat rattles, shakes, bangs,bumps - everything is so tight. Not even my boards rattle(i have the flight clips on my 210 though, not the swivel racks) or smack each other when hitting rollers. When hitting double ups or rollers- the boat just sounds so much different -its just so solid & tight. how i can best describe hitting rollers or D-ups, is on most boats you hear the hull/boat "bang". On the 210 its just a "thud".
Handling is unbelievable. When you actually drive it, you see what that boat is all about.
Old    Rob (Becks62)      Join Date: Oct 2011       03-17-2012, 9:07 PM Reply   
exactley what us Nautique owners have being preaching, did you also notice that you can see perfectley over the Nautique bow without the booster seat. In my Malibu I had to sit on the top edge of the seat to see over the bow and I'm 6' 4" .
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-17-2012, 9:11 PM Reply   
Rob-yup! -have never lifted the booster seat once - neither has my wife who pulls me when im riding.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-17-2012, 9:49 PM Reply   
miguel. I completely dissagree with the "handling is unbelievable" when speaking of the new san 210. i have only been in 2 new san 210's. both brand new, one was an 07 brand new we used for a comp, sacked out. brought the wife out on it while pulling one class because it was on our list of boats to consider. that boat rattled really bad, we were dissapointed with it, expecting it to be tight and rattle free. I think it was just a bad boat because i more recently have been in a 09 210 that is very solid and rattle free. The many bus I have been in 07's, 09's and a 11, all new, were just as solid as the good san I drive occasionally. however, the bu's handled generally a lot better than both san's, especially in when turning whether it was no ballast or dumped. To most people it is probably not even a concern as wakeboats in general turn very well, but where we ride and the turns we have to make really seperate the boats out. the one thing I can say about malibus that I know from experience is that they turn the best. best as in... tightest, smoothest, easiest, no chine locking or walking or sliding out, even with 4K lbs in em. this was confirmed this summer by another wakeboat company using computers and sensors to drive, powerturn, and hit double ups on all the different wakeboats.. malibu vlx, vtx, axis a20 a22, san 210, supra 21v, MC x2 xstar, mb f21 21twb, tige z1 rzr rz2... these are just the ones I know about. bu's were the clear winner in the categories they were testing. sorry but I was not privy to the list or the exact categories that they were testing.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-17-2012, 11:11 PM Reply   
Johnny - weird totally different for me. exact opposite. i found/find the vlx not as tight drive wise as the 210. Especially dumpped. One of my riding buddies has a 08 Vlx and he as well as myself comment on this often when were on each other boats. Something I specifically looked for when i was on the water testing the 2, just to make sure it just wasnt his boat that felt that way.(Not saying it doesnt handle great because it handles better than the star, LSV, MB V23, & F21 stables in our crew) since we discuss our boats very frequently when together. We ride at the delta where corners are SUPER tight, we have better handling on my 210 than his vlx - especially under this one bridge at "railroads" where its REAL SKETCHY! He has even commented that he only feels somewhat comfortable pulling me under that bridge on my boat and doesnt on his. Thats OUR experience on both boats.
That 210 that was rattling you experienced must have had a bad prop or some issues.
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-18-2012, 2:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebrdr94 View Post
wash and wax helps boats stay looking good? but really, how does it look bad? I had a 2002 Vlx that I got rid of last year that was in great shape, except the carpet took a beating due to a few drunk chicks.
Previous owner is a good friend of mine and has a family with kids stored it outside in the Arizona sun plus never wiped down after use. It was pretty much load up the fam and go home. The Youngins always wore there does in the boat too so the gelcoat is oxidized badly and there's two chips in the fiberglass from them running it into the dock. Even though its an eyesore/my first boat I couldn't pass the friend to friend asking price of 13,000 with 500 hours
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2012, 8:09 AM Reply   
Two of my best friends have 210s. I have spent tons of time in and behind those boats (new hull). Another friend of mine was the local cc dealer for the last 3 years. I'm a nautique fan, no doubt. I also have friends who have newer vlxs. I like malibus products as well.

Both boats are awesome. Both throw world class wakes. Both are laid out in similar fashion. Both handle very well. With these two boats, it really should boil down to price, personal preference, and dealer network. I don't see either boat as being outright superior. One observation i will make is that the 210 definitely feels slightly smaller on the inside.

I would be very happy with either boat. I haven't priced 2012s, but, personally, I would not be willing to pay a premium for either boat. In other words, I'd buy the one that was priced the lowest so long as both boats were optioned equivalently. In '06, I had to choose between an 07 210 and an 07 vlx. I bought the vlx because it was 3k cheaper. I loved both boats, so it came down to dollars and cents.

Didn't nautique change it's warranty year before last to that it's mostly 3 years?
Old     (nitrousbird)      Join Date: Sep 2008       03-18-2012, 4:41 PM Reply   
I'll start by saying I've never ridden behind a Nautique, don't know anyone who owns one, and I assume the wake and build quality is excellent.

But sitting back to back in several Malibus and Nautiques at the boat show a couple months ago - I couldn't find one thing I liked better about the Nautiques. My wife had the same opinion (not knowing a lot about boats, and me just letting her walk around in them).

- Dash is just awful. See the Nautique pictured above for an example.
- I'm 6'3" and HATED how you sit in the driver seat, with it being down into the hull further than the rest of the boat. That alone would be a deal breaker for me.
- Neither of us liked the general graphics designs (especially that damn bird), carpet designs, etc. on the Nautique. Of course you can option it without that stuff
- My wife was really busting on the teak-look pads on the swim platform, walk-through, etc. She made it very clear how cheap and tacky it looked. I didn't think it was as bad as she thought it was, but I wouldn't put it in anything I owned either.
- G3 tower = one of (if not the) best looking towers out there. Nautique's tower...well, not quite as bad as what Mastercraft has been using, but still ugly.
- Did I mention how bad the dash and driver seating is?

Overall, not impressed with the Nautique line. I'm sure from a boarding and surfing standpoint they are awesome...but so are other boats out there for less money.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-18-2012, 5:27 PM Reply   
the driver seat isnt lower in the hull than the rest of the floor. Its only for the drivers legs where they give you a sunken floor underneath the dash.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-18-2012, 8:58 PM Reply   
I am a Supra convert myself, sold my 2008 22SSV and went into a 2011 VLX. I was in your shoes, and after 142 hours last season I have no regrets with the VLX. The boat is solid, the wake is incredible out of the box, Maliview pre-sets and Malibu Touch are great, the G3 tower is awesome (solid and well built), quad board racks, great bimini top coverage, quad ballast system is totally customizeable and quickly fills and empties, transom walk over, love the interior layout, comfortable seats and space for a 21' boat, 100" beam, snap out carpet, no carpet in ski lockers/storage areas, great styling. The wake on the VLX is very nice and clean at low speeds for beginner riders (18-19mph), this was not the case with my Supra. I always had issues with the port side washing out until you were at 23 MPH. You will notice a huge difference in the wake quality between the Supra and Malibu, IMO, no comparison between the two.

Some items I dont care for on the VLX, no bow storage with the quad ballast, and the drivers seat/bolster is low, I raised it up 2" which definitely helps. Other than those two items I dont really have any other complaints about the boat.

I have never ridden behind a Nautique, they also look like nice boats, so I cant comment on the differences. I only can say you will love the VLX, probably my favorite boat Malibu produces. I had some very minor warranty items last year at the end of season and Malibu repaired everything. They even fixed a gel coat chip in my bow I got from towing.

Good luck with your decision, sounds like from all the comments you really need to take them both out, spend some time in them and see which one works better for you.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-18-2012, 9:37 PM Reply   
In my experience the Stock VLX wake is quite rideable with the stock 4 tank system and power wedge. The SAN 210 really needs A LOT of extra weight before I would consider it equal with the stock VLX wake. Once its there and beyond it is super good tho but if you are expecting to have a good fun wake and only run factory ballast then the VLX is the only choice IMO.
Old    Bevan (stxr_racer)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-18-2012, 11:27 PM Reply   
C'mon Ralph, you know the 210 rules
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-18-2012, 11:46 PM Reply   
No doubt, I would take one in a heart beat but I don't have a problem with adding extra weight over factory as you well know.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-19-2012, 12:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
if you are expecting to have a good fun wake and only run factory ballast then the VLX is the only choice IMO
Is this true? Is the BU stock wake decent now?

I last rode the BU VLX stock wake in 2009 and I thought it was paltry. So, has Malibu made improvements since 2009?
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       03-19-2012, 2:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Is this true? Is the BU stock wake decent now?

I last rode the BU VLX stock wake in 2009 and I thought it was paltry. So, has Malibu made improvements since 2009?
I rode a 2010 with 4 tank, power wedge, 4 people in the boat in deep water @ 23mph and thought it was pretty good. Normally I'm quite fussy, one mans mountain is another's mole hill I guess.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-19-2012, 12:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
Is this true? Is the BU stock wake decent now?

I last rode the BU VLX stock wake in 2009 and I thought it was paltry. So, has Malibu made improvements since 2009?
For the intermediate to advanced rider the stock VLX wake is really nice. If you are a pro level rider, you probably will need extra weight. The 2009 hull is the same as the 2012. Did it have quad ballast, and were you using the wedge?

I have had a few advanced riders out on my boat and they all love the vlx wake, even with stock ballast and wedge. I have also added 2 400 lb bags to the bow and walkway and the wake got even better. The vlx is Malibus top selling boat, proven for years.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-19-2012, 1:49 PM Reply   
I had same experience as GD concerning the VLX. Whether it is the last hull (05-08) or the new hull, it really needs weight. The stock 1250 plus wedge plus 8 people in 11 foot water on a 2011 vlx at 24mph was small to me. I have not ridden a san 210 with stock weight so I can't compare them. I have ridden slumpin vlxs and san 210's and both are world class. I like the 210 wake very much and it surprises me that all the wakeboard pros sponsored by nautique seem to have the 230 instead. I know some of the wakeskaters have the 210. Not sure why, I think the 210 is better and less finicky from side to side compared to the 230.

the vlx's wake gets exponentially better with every pound you add to it. 3500-4000 with no wedge yeilds an amazing wake. The wedge added to this will give you a lip, but it is a soft lip unless you move or add more weight to the bow. the san 210 with this weight has a nice transition with a nice lip at the top. but you cannot get ride of that lip if you choose like you can with the vlx. Plus the vlx is less weight sensitive from side to side.

When I rode the 2011 with stock weight, we did not know if the speedo was calibrated, so we may have been riding faster than it said, making the wake small....just keep adding weight, it gets better and better (similar to the xstar where it just gets better and better with more weight)
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-19-2012, 2:59 PM Reply   
Both the 210 and the VLX will need extra ballast if you are an advanced rider and want a large wake. I'm not aware of any wakeboat made that doesn't need at least a 400 in the rear lockers and one or more 400's in the nose to make the wake nice and big. Yes, there are some wakeboats, that make a better or slightly bigger out of the box wake, but c'mon, any of us that care about riding a big wake are going to add weight to whatever we buy.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-19-2012, 3:13 PM Reply   
Rather than read a lot of words about these wakes, how about some pics?

Since the conversation seems to focused around stock wake I went and pulled up pics of both boats taken from Wakeboarding Magazine's Boat Reviews.

Both these pics are from the 2009 review because it was the only year where the magazine posted wake pics for both boats. But the hulls have not changed since 2009 so it's the same as today.

Draw your own conclusions...



Old    mojo            03-19-2012, 3:19 PM Reply   
This isn't exactly what you're asking, but I've boarded behind a 2009 210 and 2010 vlx. With the wedge the wakes are very similar shape. They both steer very similarly and effortlessly. They both handle rollers great, but I might give a slight edge to the vlx in that category. Both have amazing fit and finish and cushions. The reversible seating in the 210 is a major plus IMO. I also thought the vlx bows downward curvature and/or lower stance makes it overly nessecary to watch how you stop. Both great boats.
Ps. I really didn't like the vlx speed control compared to perfect pass, wheel or gps, and zero off.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-19-2012, 4:00 PM Reply   
Speaking of wakes - the new 210 doesnt NEED(its is lovely with TONS though)A LOT of extra wake to get a macking wake. These pics of my 210s wake only has the 900lbs internal ballast and 3 skylon fat buddies(280 lbs each). 1 in each rear locker, and one in the bow. So thats about 840 lbs - 1K above internal ballast(not 3000-4000lbs). Plus hydrogate down(wake/steep mode). 3 peeps on the boat.
Attached Images
   
Old    DC (durty_curt)      Join Date: Apr 2008       03-19-2012, 9:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
Rather than read a lot of words about these wakes, how about some pics?

Since the conversation seems to focused around stock wake I went and pulled up pics of both boats taken from Wakeboarding Magazine's Boat Reviews.




I appreciate DBC what you did here but I feel the Nautiques wake photo is a bad example because its zoomed in to close that you don't even see the White wash curl over that's past the lip.

Last edited by durty_curt; 03-19-2012 at 10:01 PM. Reason: .
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       03-19-2012, 11:03 PM Reply   
^Couldn't agree more. Not really a fair comparison. Don't know the distance the pictures were taken and/or if same camera/lens and/or zoomed in or not. The photographer behind the Nautique must be a Tuber or waterskier
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-19-2012, 11:33 PM Reply   
wakeboarding mag took the photos, and I agree they messed up. It looks like the same angle but 2 problems is that the 210's picture is too zoomed in and the water is more choppy. Bummer for nautique.... but man that wakesetter wake looks beautiful
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-20-2012, 12:03 AM Reply   
One thing I can not understand is why BU fails to put a rear facing seat behind the driver.
CC also deserves extra credit for it's additional rear facing seat in front of the observer.
That plus a great wake and great build quality make the CC 210 one of my favorites.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-20-2012, 8:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
One thing I can not understand is why BU fails to put a rear facing seat behind the driver.
CC also deserves extra credit for it's additional rear facing seat in front of the observer.
That plus a great wake and great build quality make the CC 210 one of my favorites.
To be honest those two rear facing seats are what I hate about the SAN. They take up room and break things up a ton. I guess that and their price. The BUs interior flows much better than the SAN due to it.
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-20-2012, 8:56 AM Reply   
I like what supra has on the 242 and 22v and MB sports on I think all their boats for a rear facing seat behind the driver.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-20-2012, 8:57 AM Reply   
^^ the rear facing seat in front of the observer is only if you flip it up. So its flat regularly. So they dont break up room at all. The one right behind the drivers seat, can be easily removed , which then gives you the non backrest end seating like the Mailbus. So the seating is exactly the same as most wrap around seating boats, BUT you have the option of rear facing seats.
Attached Images
  
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-20-2012, 9:00 AM Reply   
Not trying to throw other boats into the OP's consideration I just like the way these rear facing seats were incorporated into the interior.



Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-20-2012, 9:04 AM Reply   
Did a little searching on the 210. I really like this too. Especially the fact that you can change it back to a traditional wrap around configuration.

Old    L W (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-20-2012, 9:09 AM Reply   
Look how little freeboard the MB and Supra have compared to the 210. That is one thing that we couldn't look past on the MB's and Supras this year.
I do like their seating however.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-20-2012, 9:22 AM Reply   
Maybe it was the 220 interior that had the hard back that broke things up
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-20-2012, 9:23 AM Reply   
^^it was the 220.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-20-2012, 9:37 AM Reply   
Well that interior set up is by far the worst of all the wakeboats I've seen
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-20-2012, 9:39 AM Reply   
220 is no longer in production.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-20-2012, 9:59 AM Reply   
You do lose a little storage with the flip up rear seat in the 210 that is located behind the ob compartment.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-20-2012, 10:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
^^ the rear facing seat in front of the observer is only if you flip it up. So its flat regularly. So they dont break up room at all. The one right behind the drivers seat, can be easily removed , which then gives you the non backrest end seating like the Mailbus. So the seating is exactly the same as most wrap around seating boats, BUT you have the option of rear facing seats.
I love that flip up side seat. I would give up that storage for this any day. With 4 in the boat and 1 in the water, everyone has a rear facing seat and the boat is balanced. 2 on the observer side and 2 on the drivers side.

The middle rear facing bench is a bit more work to setup and in the way (a hurdle) so that one I am unsure about -- maybe someone who has lived with it can tell us the pros/cons.
Old    Brett B. (Brett_B)      Join Date: Sep 2010       03-20-2012, 10:33 AM Reply   
Both are fantastic boats with an excellent wake. I like that Nautique uses hinges/gas shocks on more of their seat bases than Malibu. I also like the rear facing seat options on the Nautique and wish Malibu had more options for this. However those folding seats do sacrifice storage room since the 210 has almost half of the storage volume of the VLX.

The VLX just has much more interior and storage space, even with 350lbs more factory ballast, a larger fuel tank, and no bow storage. It’s very noticeable when comparing them side by side. The seat base height of the 210 is also pretty low, and being tall I found it to be a bit uncomfortable.

Here are the numbers from the 2009 Waterski magazine boat guide:

VLX:
Length: 21’6”
Width: 100”
Storage: 116 cu. ft.
Fuel Capacity: 46 gallons
Bow Width: 54”
Bow Length: 64”
Bow Area: 12 sq. ft.
Gunwale Height: 30”
Lounge Area: 63 sq. ft.
Sun Pad Area: 24 sq. ft.
Stock Ballast: 1250 lbs

210:
Length: 21’
Width: 98”
Storage: 60 cu. ft.
Fuel Capacity: 40 gallons
Bow Width: 57”
Bow Length: 68”
Bow Area: 13 sq. ft.
Gunwale Height: 27”
Lounge Area: 56 sq. ft.
Sun Pad Area: 26 sq. ft.
Stock Ballast: 900 lbs
Old    - (Txjole)      Join Date: Dec 2011       03-20-2012, 10:40 AM Reply   
The flip up is the most used part of my boat. We love it.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       03-20-2012, 10:47 AM Reply   
I'm biased, so that goes without saying.....

Having spent time in both and behind both I don't think there is much comparison. I much prefer the Malibu. The 210 has never put out a wake that has impressed me. Even fully slammed to the point that it was hard to drive (constantly dips the nose).

The stock VLX wake works. It has a nice lip with the wedge and is acceptable for beginner to intermediate riders. IMO, much better than a stock 210. Not really even the same ball park. That said... once you pick the speed up the wake gets flat on both boats and needs a lot more weight. For 20 mph riding the the stock wake is nice and steep with a good boot at the top.

Interior, to interior. I wish Malibu would do the back rest behind the driver seat. Otherwise, I love the layout. The interior feels plush and is very comfortable. Last years LSV was the first boat I've ever been in where I thought the price was fully justified. I love the Maliview and pushbutton controls. The heated seat was so nice on chilly nigths. Everything was well thought out and worked great for a boat that you spend a lot of time in.

And before you go saying that Malibu wont hold up.... We've got friends with 1900 hours on a '08 and it looks like new. I think it's more about how you care for them than what they're made with. I've seen brand new Nautiques, Mastercrafts and Malibu's that were absolutely trashed.
Old    Miguel (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-20-2012, 11:04 AM Reply   
The middle bench - is super easy to setup - literally takes less than 30 secs. I would say that ive used it maybe only 4-5 times. I only pull it out when i have alot of peeps on the boat - but i on the reg only have 3-4 on board.

Evan - I gotta get you behind my whip one of these days - i see u guys enough out there - Just jump in one day for a pull. See if u like my setup. Did u ever ride behind the paytons 210?
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-20-2012, 11:07 AM Reply   
I will say I love the slammed 210 wake as much as the slammed vlx wake. Both are awesome. As I said earlier, both boats are so quality and perform so well, it really boils down to styling likes/dislikes, dealer network, and overall price.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-20-2012, 2:47 PM Reply   
I love both slammed wakes and am fortunate to get to ride both often. I like the nautiques interior functionality. For wakeboarding it is great to be able to alls it backwards, but it does sacrifice comfort. The SAN's seats are harder and less comfortable than the plush malibus, and I love how low you sit in the bu's, very comfortable. The SAN's feel like you are sitting up too high, but the seat bases are very low too, so not sure what is going on under the deck.

Function vs comfort, I guess you can't be #1 in both categories.

Set up a demo for both boats on the same day, preferably side by side. this is the best way to compare the two, then let us know what you think.
Old    Jack (miljack)      Join Date: Feb 2006       03-20-2012, 10:22 PM Reply   
@DBC, not to take this OT, but what happened to the MB love? Just curious, not trying to start up, just noticed that you got a 12 MB, and now looks like you've moved to the VLX. You can PM if you care to answer.
I'm looking now, so this thread has been great! No time behind a VLX, but a 08 210, both stock and FlyHi setup. Stock wake is great, and the FlyHi is awesome! I've ridden behind a VTX with floating wedge stock and prefer the 210 stock. I know it's not a fair comparison, but only one I have...
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-21-2012, 12:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by miljack View Post
@DBC, not to take this OT, but what happened to the MB love? Just curious, not trying to start up, just noticed that you got a 12 MB, and now looks like you've moved to the VLX. You can PM if you care to answer.
Well, I guess I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Malibu. Ife you've paid attention to my posts over the years, you've probably recognized that. I came very close to buying a VTX on three different occasions (2008, 2009, and 2011). Instead I bought MB's because it's just too hard to ignore the value. But I never really forgot about those Malibus, the sleek lines, the way they handled on water, and the plush interiors. When my local dealer lost the MB line and picked up Malibu, that set the wheels in motion. After one full season with my latest MB, I listed it just to see what would happen, and it sold. So here I am with a VLX on order, and we couldn't be more excited.

Back to the original topic, obviously I'm biased. I like the Malibu interior better. But that's a personal thing. I hope the OP spends some quality time inside and outside each boat. Water demo is also important, obviously, but you better get cracking if you plan to order new from the factory. Your time is running out.
Old    Jack (miljack)      Join Date: Feb 2006       03-21-2012, 2:32 AM Reply   
@DBC, not ordering new!
What's your opinion on the handling/perf between the MB and VLX?
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-21-2012, 9:10 AM Reply   
The BU...
a rampy wake that can be built up very nice.
old school pumps and hoses ballast system.
best interior in the market minus a lack of rear facing seats.
great drive, great handling and great build quality.
less motor noise and vibration than others.
cool 2 point tower with a smaller bimini.
funky 5 piece windshield
sweet legacy.
fancy dash.

The MB...
a vert wake that is almost there out of the box.
a superior gravity fed purevert ballast system.
a very nice interior with cool styling options.
great drive, great handling and great build quality.
more motor noise and vibration than others.
nice 4 point tower with a huge bimini.
nice 3 piece windshield
functional dash.
mixed legacy.
best price.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-21-2012, 10:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
The BU...
a rampy wake that can be built up very nice.
old school pumps and hoses ballast system.
best interior in the market minus a lack of rear facing seats.
great drive, great handling and great build quality.
less motor noise and vibration than others.
cool 2 point tower with a smaller bimini.
funky 5 piece windshield
sweet legacy.
fancy dash.

The MB...
a vert wake that is almost there out of the box.
a superior gravity fed purevert ballast system.
a very nice interior with cool styling options.
great drive, great handling and great build quality.
more motor noise and vibration than others.
nice 4 point tower with a huge bimini.
nice 3 piece windshield
functional dash.
mixed legacy.
best price.
I would say the Malibu has one of, if not the best tower on the market today. And the ballast system is the most customizeable system available. I hope Malibu never goes to pure vert, the quad tank fills and drains plenty fast and is so user friendly.
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-21-2012, 10:45 AM Reply   
Are they still using aerator pumps or did they go to reversible?
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-21-2012, 11:10 AM Reply   
Just so we don't get anymore off topic, I will simply say that I agree with GD's post except for three areas:

1) Pure Vert is nice due to the quick fill time. It's weakness is that you can't get water to the belly or the bow. Malibu's strength is placing weight in four distinct locations with the weakness being fill times. But with the switch to 1100gph pumps and 1" lines on all 2012 models, the fill times are now down to 2.5 minutes. That's completely acceptable, imho. Would you give up 1.5 minutes in fill time to get 350lbs. in the nose of the MB? I would. Add to that the presets and it's a really slick system. Just push a button and forget about ballast... don't have to monitor guages. Set it and forget it. I used to think everybody would eventually adopt Pure Vert. But as pump technology and presets get better/faster, I'm not sure that's the case anymore. Really, time was their only achilles heal, and they just keep getting faster.

2) The bimini on the MB was one of my favorite features. You are right that the bimini on the old Illusion tower was tiny. But the G3 bimini is much larger. Maybe not as large as MB (I'll have to measure), but it's a big improvement over the old Illusion bimini.

3) No mention of racks. I never liked the Skylong racks on my MB's. They were just okay. I'm anxious to try something new. I can already tell the locking mechanism is superior, and I like how you get one looped bungee instead of two separate bungees. A minor beef, but worth noting.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-21-2012, 11:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzubke1 View Post
Are they still using aerator pumps or did they go to reversible?
2012 has 1100 gph aerator pumps with 1" fill and drain lines. 2011 and older use the 800 gph aerators with 3/4" lines. My 2011 will fill and empty in about 3.5 mins, the 2012s are even faster with the increased capacity.
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-21-2012, 11:15 AM Reply   
I like that as opposed to the reversible pumps because if you want to plug and play on top of the hard tank you don't have to mess with timers. I also like that you can see the ballast emptying out the side instead of underneath so you can see when it's empty.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-21-2012, 11:21 AM Reply   
Aerator pumps are very reliable, the maliview has built in gauges, but you can also use the drain ports as well to visually see the water stopping. I guess its all personal preference, but the pure vert IMO lacks customizeability especially with no bow ballast and the quad tanks. I also don't want to have to drive my boat for a minute to empty the ballast every time.

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