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Old    SamIngram            01-10-2012, 9:16 AM Reply   
How long before this gets taken to court?

Pennsylvania to impose asset test for food stamps...
Old    Dan (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       01-10-2012, 1:32 PM Reply   
Once again, Pennsylvania proves how dumb of a state they are. Pennsylvania is an embarrassment.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-10-2012, 3:24 PM Reply   
Sounds like it isn't necessary. This is what I pulled from Sam's article:

"They point to federal statistics showing that Pennsylvania has one of the lowest food-stamp fraud rates in the nation: one-tenth of 1 percent.

In fact, the state recently won a federal award for running its program efficiently, federal officials say.

Moreover, about 30 percent of people who are eligible for food stamps in Pennsylvania and throughout the nation don't access them, making the entitlement program under-subscribed."

My question is; Is this new monitoring going to cost more than what PA will stand to save?
Old    SamIngram            01-10-2012, 3:55 PM Reply   
So you would rather wait for a problem to arise and then try to solve it, versus trying to be proactive and accountable with the tax payer's money? If this program encourages just one person not to go welfare then it is worth whatever it costs... Have you ever waited to buy something at the grocery store and the person in front of you uses some type of government subsidized food purchasing program and then you see them in the parking lot in an Escalade with dubs?

The house next to mine was purchased through a subsidized housing program. An "investor" applied for a state, county, and city grant for providing low-income housing and used the funds to buy the house. They then went to all the local neighborhood home improvement stores and used their low income housing project status to get donations (including new windows, roofing, AC, paint, etc...). After that they got the community to pitch in and work on the home for free using all the free supplies. The "investor" then took the land and the improvements and separated them, legally, on paper. He sold the house at a huge discount to a "qualified low-income buyer". The buyer got a subsidized loan for low-income buyers. She now has a regular loan payment on the house and a small land lease payment. She hasn't paid either in 28 months! She drives a 2010 Escalade with 24" rims. She has had the police come out to her house no less than 100 times and has been arrested at least 9 times. She has six kids all with different dads. The bank won't take her house back because they don't want to be liable for the land lease and doubt they can sell the house without the land. The guy who owns the land put it in a irrevocable trust which is broke. I currently own the tax lien on the house and will be able to foreclose on both in two more years. I have spoke at 4 city council meetings to stop this program and I have been threatened all four times. (RANT OVER)

Every time a government welfare program gets taken advantage of more and more people resent the program. With enough resentment from the public the program will end. When the program ends, people who actually need the program won't get help.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-10-2012, 3:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIngram View Post
If this program encourages just one person not to go welfare then it is worth whatever it costs...
No it is not....
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-10-2012, 4:11 PM Reply   
"So you would rather wait for a problem to arise and then try to solve it"

I had the understanding that PA's welfare program had been around longer than a couple of weeks. If my belief is correct, then it sounds like PA is already doing something right and why invest anymore of the state tax dollars to fix something that isn't broken? No matter what you do, you will never be able to completely rid the system of fraud, other than shutting it down completely.

"Have you ever waited to buy something at the grocery store and the person in front of you uses some type of government subsidized food purchasing program and then you see them in the parking lot in an Escalade with dubs?"

Have you ever given anyone the benefit of doubt? Maybe the person driving the Escalade was buying groceries for a disabled family member or neighbor. Maybe the person had to borrow someone's car to get to the grocery store. Maybe the person was recently laid off, but is too underneath in the car to sell, but chooses to do the right thing and continue to make payments, but needs temporary assistance to put food on the table. Not everyone on assistance is taking advantage of the program.
Old    SamIngram            01-10-2012, 4:16 PM Reply   
I didn't say everyone, so don't even bring that in to the discussion...
Old    SamIngram            01-10-2012, 4:20 PM Reply   
Nope... everything is good in PA...

Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-10-2012, 4:24 PM Reply   
^Okay, so one of these two things you posted is a lie. Which one is it?
Old    SamIngram            01-10-2012, 4:24 PM Reply   
It is a really bad idea to try to save money due to welfare fraud.... they could just cut more education spending...

The damn knee-jerk reactionaries...
Old    SamIngram            01-10-2012, 4:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^Okay, so one of these two things you posted is a lie. Which one is it?
LOL... it all depends on who is reporting the findings and figures... and who is redefining the the terms to fit their needs...
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-10-2012, 8:11 PM Reply   
^That's the beautiful thing though, everyone gets to pick and choose their news source.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-12-2012, 8:39 PM Reply   
A better solution, eliminate food stamps altogether. Absolutely no reaosn for any "welfare" spending of MY money. Stealing from me to give to someone else is still theft. It is illegal and an extreme violation of my rights.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-12-2012, 9:42 PM Reply   
"The house next to mine was purchased through a subsidized housing program. An "investor" applied for a state, county, and city grant for providing low-income housing and used the funds to buy the house. " I'm going through a similar situation and, as a result, have learned the hard way the definition of a liberal. I know people need help but most of these programs are abused to the point that the people who actually do need help can't get any. I applaud Penn. for trying to catch fradulant claims.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-13-2012, 1:07 PM Reply   
"It is illegal and an extreme violation of my rights."

Explain exactly how any of your rights are violated.
Old    Pennsforest04 (pennsforest04)      Join Date: Jan 2012       01-14-2012, 12:54 AM Reply   
Haha, imagine that, Rep. Saccone was a professor of mine, that's hilarious he shows up on a wakeboarding forum. Sorry for the irrelevant post, but I couldn't help it.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-14-2012, 3:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"It is illegal and an extreme violation of my rights."

Explain exactly how any of your rights are violated.
It is theft, my property rights are violated. You could go so far as to call it slavery, since the government takes if from you without your consent, and if they say you must pay them more, and you don't... They come for you armed and ready to do violence against you, you will be either put in jail or killed if you don't pay their extortion fee so someone else have the fruits of your labor, after the government takes a large slice off the top.
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-14-2012, 7:28 PM Reply   
Cory, I think you knew going into your job, that they were going to take taxes out, and they would not come to you armed, when they can simply garnish your wages. It is not theft, and your property rights are not violated. Do they tax too much? Yes, but if you do not want to pay taxes, get a boat and anchor off near key west, I guess they can't collect any taxes then, or become a minister, or open up your own business so you can write everything off, but don't bitch how the man is holding you back!
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-14-2012, 9:36 PM Reply   
"It is theft, my property rights are violated. You could go so far as to call it slavery, since the government takes if from you without your consent, and if they say you must pay them more,"

I think they should let people like you not pay taxes, just make you pay as you go. You pay for your military protection, to use the roads, etc. Of course, you would have to pay retail for these services. You constantly cry on here talking about your rights are being violated and welfare is extortion, but it sounds like you aren't any better, you want something for free yourself. What does that make you?
Old    Jo Shmoe (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-15-2012, 4:42 AM Reply   
Amish?
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-15-2012, 2:42 PM Reply   
Jo, it's not so simple as that. Try not paying taxes. They will come armed. It will be after some court orders and wahtnot but they will come and do violence against you when you have done nothing to harm them. I should not have to alter my lifestyle (which for me, is just scraping by at the moment) to not have hardship imposed at gunpoint by the government.


Jeremy, I am all for that. I've advocated that for a long time, likely mentioned it here as well. As for military protection, this country has not had any military action against it or any need to use the military to defend itself since 1941. Should we be attacked and a war declared, so be it. There will be hardship for everyone and additional taxes, as there was during WW II. If the best way I could serve was to fight, I'd enlist if we were attacked and in genuine danger. For the roads, I pay to use those through my vehicle registration and gas taxes. Those taxes work quite well for such purposes, especially gas tax. Along those lines of paying as I go, allow me to opt out of social security tax, unemployment tax, medicare tax, etc. Of course that is contingent that I will never use those services. I want it to work that way. I'd prefer for such things to be ended completely, but the only way that might happen is if every individual decided whether or not to pay into those services for their use or not. Likely welfare services would be ended as they are not sustainable and place an immense burden on those who work hard for a living to better themselves.

As for wanting anything free myself? I want absolutely nothing from our government except to be left alone. What is it that you say I want for free?
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-16-2012, 8:06 AM Reply   
^Cory, let me leave you with this quote, "Freedom isn't Free".

And I don't think IRS agents are going to come armed for not paying your taxes, quit being such a loon.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-16-2012, 11:42 AM Reply   
That quote isn't referring to submitting to theft (taxation) in order to be free. Doing so is exactly the opposite of freedom. It refers to the blood spilled and the cost paid in lives to become free. Such as when this country became a country, much blood was spilled to achieve that... All over the VERY ISSUE OF TAXATION. The sad truth is we now pay a higher tax rate than the opriginal colonists did under King George. Who really won that war?

"... quit being such a loon." Ah, this sums up your argument as a liberal. No facts, no information, no arguing your point from any perspective whatsoever. Just a personal attack. The government will send armed men to come get you if you do not pay taxes. The prohibition era gangsters were taken down this way, as it's so easy for them. Here's one current example of what happens if you don't pay taxes (http://www.brecorder.com/taxation/si...66/181/1142193). Try not paying your property taxes, it'll take a while, but they will come armed and evict you from a home you may own outright. They will steal it from you and sell it for a profit. This is theft and the end result of not paying taxes. In addition to that, you may be jailed or have wages garnished for life. If you work under the table to avoid garnishment you will likely have more armed men come for you and will spend more time in jail. Resist, which is to say assert your rights, and you will be killed. The State is a machine that operates on violence, and the threat of violence. That is how they collect such exorbitantly high tax rates as they do not and can impose those rates on people just scraping by.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-16-2012, 12:48 PM Reply   
^Yeah, but I understood that I have to pay property taxes prior to me buying the house. If I don't want to pay property taxes, I always have the option of renting. It is not stealing, it is what happens when you don't pay your taxes. You can look at it how you want, but there is nothing about paying taxes that violates your rights. If you don't like it, move to a tax-free nation. I might consider it my right to drive 120 on the freeway, but I have to pay the penalty when I am caught.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-17-2012, 10:08 AM Reply   
Im pretty sure if you drive 120 on the freeway, an armed man will come looking for you!! lol.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-17-2012, 10:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^Cory, let me leave you with this quote, "Freedom isn't Free".
But it doesn't have to be overpriced either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
And I don't think IRS agents are going to come armed for not paying your taxes, quit being such a loon.
It's a little more loony to think they will ask you to come to court and go to jail by your own free will.

The problem Cory is that your fellow Americans want freedom to be overpriced and they want the govt to keep borrowing more on the credit card. They want to the govt to enslave us as long as we're nice, comfy, and most important... safe from our fears. I know I was afraid almost everyday that Saddam was coming to get me. Now I'm afraid that Al Qaeda is coming for me.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-19-2012, 6:48 PM Reply   
Good points John.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^Yeah, but I understood that I have to pay property taxes prior to me buying the house. If I don't want to pay property taxes, I always have the option of renting. It is not stealing, it is what happens when you don't pay your taxes. You can look at it how you want, but there is nothing about paying taxes that violates your rights. If you don't like it, move to a tax-free nation. I might consider it my right to drive 120 on the freeway, but I have to pay the penalty when I am caught.
You don't think renters pay property taxes? So the landlord puts himself in a position to lose money on renting a property over taxes? There's some really interesting thinking. I've considered investment properties in the past, to rent for profit. In all those calculations I've included property taxes. In the current market, it's often cheaper to buy than rent

Sorry Jeremy, it is theft, plain and simple. If you don't pay the extortion fee they come armed and take what is yours, what you bought with your hard earned money. It is utterly disgusting and immoral to steal someone's property when he happens to fall on hard times and can't pay the government their extortion fee. One should always be secure in his possessions. Every right you have boils down to property rights.

One sad part, at least in the state I live, is over half our property taxes go to pay for public education. In this state a good private school costs around $7k/yr per student. Public averages around $14k/yr, and in the bad towns/cities it is around $20k. The private, for profit schools cna do it cheaper and better without never ending costs imposed at the barrel of a gun.
Old    McGavin (Shooter)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-19-2012, 9:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^Cory, let me leave you with this quote, "Freedom isn't Free".
"Theres a hefty f#ckin fee and if you don't throw in your buck 05 who will?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVY7q...e_gdata_player
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-23-2012, 1:42 PM Reply   
What about the fourth ammendment? I think taking a third of my income, AND taxes my purchases, gas, car, real estate, boat, & many other things is unreasonable seizure. As far as me consenting to have that money taken out, BS. The government makes it very clear - if you wanna earn living, have anything, own a business, have a bank account, and other things, you better pay taxes. Oh, if you still don't pay we'll also take what shiz you do have and throw you in jail. But they let thousands off people walk away from mortgages, and default on large amounts of money. My money is being taken from me by fear of having unlawfully seized in violation of me protection under the forth, as well as my rights to due process under the fifth ammendment.

They'll throw me in jail for couple grand of their money many years, but they'll let politicians grossly spend the money on conflicts of interests and government pork. Let me ask you, if you had a financial adviser, banker, business partner, or anyone you entrust with your money was as negligent and reckless as our government would you continue to do business with them?

I have no problem paying my share plus a little. But my little plus is a chunk plus a lot. I'm sick of 10% of the population using 90% of public resources. I'm sick of funding a world police force that cost what the next 6 countries pay for their military COMBINED! Over the last ten years most of us have less. But in present times government is spending more and taking more of my money. I spend less, they spend more? I know freedom doesn't come free, but paying over 30% of my income to fund a government? I pay as much in taxes as I do my mortgage and boat every month. A lot more. This is not freedom.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-24-2012, 5:43 PM Reply   
A relevant news report I read today...

http://www.courierpostonline.com/art...or-can-deposit

Government incentivises this. If the solilist welfare program was eliminated this "crime" would not have been possible as the source of funds wouldn't have been there or so easily available. Beyond that, this behavior was further encouraged by the fascist redeemable tax on cans and bottles.

This woman "stole" stolen money. You could view her as a Robin Hood of sorts if you wanted to go that far. I don't see any terrible "crime" here.

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