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Old    Rich (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       10-11-2012, 1:21 PM Reply   
How can Romney criticize Obamacare, or any other healthcare plan, when he clearly doesn't understand the state of healthcare in this country?

“We don’t have a setting across this country where if you don’t have insurance, we just say to you, ‘Tough luck, you’re going to die when you have your heart attack,’  ” he said as he offered more hints as to what he would put in place of “Obamacare,” which he has pledged to repeal.

“No, you go to the hospital, you get treated, you get care, and it’s paid for, either by charity, the government or by the hospital. We don’t have people that become ill, who die in their apartment because they don’t have insurance.”


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...ed-choice.html
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-11-2012, 2:14 PM Reply   
For one, Obamacare does little, if anything, to actually curb the cost of health care. To help reduce the cost of health care, there has got to be competition introduced at some level--not mandatory insurance. I am also concerned that if Obamacare is implemented, there is a good chance that the Catholic Hospitals will close their doors. In Arkansas, for example, the church did not renew a grant for a house that provided shelter and educational opportunities for immigrants because part of the grant mandated the distribution of birth control information.
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-11-2012, 2:49 PM Reply   
Its very ironic that RomneyCare is probably the biggest thing Romney has done for "The People" and now he cannot and will not take any ownership of it. It has worked well in MA...or we surely would have heard about it as a failure...nope have not heard that...Just think the biggest thing you ever accomplished in your life and you can't take any credit for it.
Old    Rich (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       10-11-2012, 3:16 PM Reply   
Ron - I may not agree with you, but you've raised a point worth researching further and I'd be happy to talk more about it. Romney however... the republican presidential nominee... can't manage to do the same. Instead, he makes broad, asinine statements that aren't remotely true. I just don't get it.

As for Massachusetts... the Romneycare plan there is HEAVILY subsidized by the Federal Government. It just wouldn't work without Fed funding. The same funding Romney wants to take away for all the states. He says he wants healthcare at the state level because it "worked in his state", but then he assures everyone that he'll make it impossible to work anywhere else. Nice.

http://youtu.be/MQdgiap5LBQ
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       10-11-2012, 3:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by digg311 View Post
How can Romney criticize Obamacare, or any other healthcare plan, when he clearly doesn't understand the state of healthcare in this country?

“We don’t have a setting across this country where if you don’t have insurance, we just say to you, ‘Tough luck, you’re going to die when you have your heart attack,’  ” he said as he offered more hints as to what he would put in place of “Obamacare,” which he has pledged to repeal.

“No, you go to the hospital, you get treated, you get care, and it’s paid for, either by charity, the government or by the hospital. We don’t have people that become ill, who die in their apartment because they don’t have insurance.”


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...ed-choice.html
I don't understand. Are you implying that his statement is untrue?
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       10-11-2012, 3:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by digg311 View Post
Ron - I may not agree with you, but you've raised a point worth researching further and I'd be happy to talk more about it. Romney however... the republican presidential nominee... can't manage to do the same. Instead, he makes broad, asinine statements that aren't remotely true. I just don't get it.

As for Massachusetts... the Romneycare plan there is HEAVILY subsidized by the Federal Government. It just wouldn't work without Fed funding. The same funding Romney wants to take away for all the states. He says he wants healthcare at the state level because it "worked in his state", but then he assures everyone that he'll make it impossible to work anywhere else. Nice.

http://youtu.be/MQdgiap5LBQ
Have you actually heard what Romney has said about "Romneycare" and how he would reform the health care system? But, I'll give you this you are an expert at making broad, asinine statements that aren't remotely true.


Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Old    Hey, You scratched my anchor! (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       10-11-2012, 3:48 PM Reply   
Maybe more interesting in the article is how Romney has been trying to make hay by using the dead seal in Libya as a political pawn, and the seals mother has said, Stop it, she did not want Romney to talk about her son. "I do not trust Romney , he shouldn't make my son's death part of his political agenda".

Romney seems willing to say anything to get elected. He knows that his father lost an election by being honest, Mittens won't make that mistake.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       10-11-2012, 4:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by digg311 View Post
“We don’t have a setting across this country where if you don’t have insurance, we just say to you, ‘Tough luck, you’re going to die when you have your heart attack,’  ” he said as he offered more hints as to what he would put in place of “Obamacare,” which he has pledged to repeal.

No, you go to the hospital, you get treated, you get care, and it’s paid for, either by charity, the government or by the hospital. We don’t have people that become ill, who die in their apartment because they don’t have insurance.”
Thats the part I have the greatest issue with. So you don't want the socialization or mandates put in place by the government, but you want others to pay for people's care? I'm confused. How does a business such as a hospital profit if they are constantly paying for folk's care? What happened to personal accountability and self-suffeciency?

One of the reasons medical care is so expensive in this country is that the hospitals must make up for all the people that can't afford care by charging those that can pay, the insurance companies. So the way the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act reduces the overall cost of care is by everyone having at least a baseline insurance. How can one introduce competition into an arena that does not allow all parties to play on a level playing field? The only bargaining chip a hospital has is to refuse care and refuse to negotiate the cost.

I don't normally get involved in the political discourse on WW, but I wanted to comment on this. As an agent, its been a bear to stay up on the steady changes but I think ObamaCare has some seriously good aspects. Clearly its not perfect but its a step in the right direction.
Old    Terry Redfearn (TerryR)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-11-2012, 4:27 PM Reply   
Hey,
Just this week obama said that he had al Queda on their heals. Mitt countered with no we dont and cited an example of the assasination of the Ambassador. That is not politicizing.
Old    Rich (digg311)      Join Date: Sep 2007       10-11-2012, 4:41 PM Reply   
Dave -
I'm not saying that. Reuters is: http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/...58G6W520090917

LYNRD -
Nice. Way to add nothing substantive, but slide in a hit on me. You're a deft one. The whole point of this thread was to point out that what I've heard from Romney about his "plan" makes no sense to me. And in fact, some of the (very few) things he has spoken about directly have been arguable at best, completely untrue at worst.
If you can clarify something I've got wrong, please do so. I would love to be enlightened.

Oh, and since you seem to be suggesting that I have made untrue statements, I'd love to know what they were. Again, I don't have a problem being fact checked. I try to my research before I form or state an opinion, but I'm always willing to rethink a position.
Old    Boat Driver (LYNRDSKYNRD)      Join Date: Sep 2012       10-11-2012, 4:42 PM Reply   
Hey Stephan maybe something similar to Obamacare but run at the state level? Like what Romney is proposing?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       10-12-2012, 5:47 AM Reply   
I think the point is that health insurance is being touted as this life saving necessity, and should therefore be provided by the government. It isnt. Obamacare is not the cure all for our healthcare system. Medical insurance is designed to save your finances, not your life. Romney is saying that life saving care already exists in the current healthcare model regardless of ability to pay. You dont run the risk of death by not having insurance. The idea that all the uninsured are going to die a preventable death or wind up destitute is foolish propaganda.

Look, the healthcare system needs an overhaul through tort reform, not socialization. Regardless of which side controls the congress, or presidency, the last people you want with their hands in your healthcare are the idiots in Washington.
Old    John Gunnels (cragrat)      Join Date: Mar 2012       10-12-2012, 8:35 AM Reply   
Cliche', but true: The feds have done such a wonderful job managing social security, let's hand health care over to them as well.

Can't believe I've lived long enough to actually see our country come to this...
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-12-2012, 10:43 AM Reply   
Bottom line is that privatized health care has resulted in cost increases well beyond the nominal rate of inflation. I would say that diverting tax revenue to health insurance is responsible for most of the significant inflation. But even the people who think govt should stay out of healthcare still believe that tax charity to HI companies is a good thing.

I've seen billing rates vs what Medicare pays. If everyone could buy heath care services for what Medicare pays we would all be better off. What's needed is a law that prevents HC providers from charging different consumers different rates. And because we are giving tax charity to the HC industry, we do have the right to demand that billing be flat across the board.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       10-12-2012, 11:50 AM Reply   
The real solution is to make it lucrative to go into private practice and allow the market to set competitive prices. Currently it is too risky for a doctor to do anything but buddy up into facilities that just feed the system. Ive talked to my PCP and he would love to be in private practice and out of the insurance game. He could make more and provide a better service. However the overhead cost, regulations, and legal protection required to do such a thing is cost prohibitive. He has a family to feed too, and its safer just to join the pill farm and play this insurance games.

If the government would treat it like a service and provide some legal protection and reasonable guidelines for doctors to be in independent practice, competition would drive the price down to where insurance would be for nothing but catastrophic occurances.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       10-12-2012, 1:01 PM Reply   
^They passed comprehensive tort reform in TX a few years ago and health care prices have risen since the passing. It does little to reduce costs it only reduces medical professional liability.
Old    Ron T (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-12-2012, 6:46 PM Reply   
According to this article, its purpose was served http://www.mysanantonio.com/health/a...is-2181917.php
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-12-2012, 10:40 PM Reply   
what that article proves to me is that we let doctors have us by the balls. docs made money before HMOs and then cried that HMOs would be the end of medical care. Then the same with tort reform and now with obamacare. Docs are always complaining about how they can't make money. And yet somehow CC and MC can sell out of G23s and Xstars. Hmmmmm.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-13-2012, 7:55 AM Reply   
Jason, you do realize that to make it truly competitive you have to eliminate the tax revenue charity. You cannot create a system that compels people to pay money into a market sector with a "use it or lose it" scheme and expect it to be a competitive free market. The first thing that has to happen is that no tax free revenue go to health insurance. Then you will have a trickle down of revenue starvation in the health care industry that will force health care providers to actually be competitive.

Of course this will also make giving free services to poor people a fiscal nightmare. That will have to stop as well. Poor people will need access to healthcare that is affordable, which means that we need to allow less "qualified" people to provide services at a lower cost. This means that the laws that protect exclusivity in the occupation will need to be relaxed. IOW, the whole system is not equipped at this point to be removed from the govt umbrella. And it can;t be done solely in a way that only benefits limited segments of the population. All Americans have a right to healthcare. Not a right to paid for healthcare. But a system that uses the law to restrict healthcare that ultimately raises the cost denies healthcare to the poor and even the middle class.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       10-13-2012, 6:21 PM Reply   
I know there will need to be several major changes to make it a proper free market, but it needs to happen, no matter the bumps in the road. I believe it should be exactly as you said where doctors compete. Yes, the best docs would come at a premium. The less experienced will come at a bargain, and the less successful will be driven out. I don't know that I would call the lower end of the docs unqualified, as they still have to be licensed.

I see the poor being served by young docs who work in lower income areas building their "book" of success that they will use layer to justify a premium as they advance. Similar to other job markets.

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