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Old     (Gryphon)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-23-2011, 10:09 PM Reply   
I will be switching from my I/O to an inboard boat and am looking for opinions to ensure I will be as happy as possible with a new boat.

I like to wakeboard and knee board. I am very basic, w2w and some minor surface tricks. I have never wake surfed before but am looking forward to it as I hear it is fun and easier on your body.

I have done lots of research on the Axis, both A20 and A22 and am seriously considering buying one (2011 closeout). The thread on the dealer costs ( made me realize there are other boats likely in the 45k range new or a demo.

So my requirements are as follows.

Budget 45k before tax (or a bit more for the right boat)
Would prefer to buy new but will consider 2009+
I don't care about "bling" more concerned about performance (this is why the Axis originally caught my eye)
Stereo isn't important at all, can be added later.
Must have cruise control as the last boat didn't have one and this caused more arguments between me and the gf than anything else in our life, LOL.
Usually only have 3-5 people on the boat so anything 20'-23 is fine.

Let me know your thoughts please.
Old    Eppie Martinez (Eppies07epic)      Join Date: Jun 2011       12-24-2011, 12:23 AM Reply   
I was in your shoes when I bought my boat. I wasn't about all the bling either, just wanted something that had most everything with a good wake. Did alot of looking and decided on an Epic 23V. This year will be our 4th year with the boat. We love it and are glad we chose a Epic. I would encourage you to do a little research on Epic before you pull the trigger on a Axis. I've been around a fair amount of wake boats and think my boat can hold its own in storage, room, power wake shape/size, ballast size, and functionality. The only thing it may lag in is bling. Not a big deal IMO.
Old     (Gryphon)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-24-2011, 12:31 AM Reply   
Hows the surf wake as well? Any idea what people are seeing them go out the door for on a 2011 right now?

Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       12-24-2011, 6:47 AM Reply   
Moomba is another good budget boat with some nice features. You may want to look at promo or like new used boats there are some great deals on top brands out there. Take your time and test drive all of them buy the one that fits your needs.
Old    Swatguy (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       12-24-2011, 6:49 AM Reply   
There is a sweet epic I saw in the classifieds for 45 k. 2011 blue. Looked mint
Old    Tyler Smith (smitty1258)      Join Date: Jun 2009       12-24-2011, 7:44 AM Reply   
Your search is over.

Loaded out and ready to shred
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-25-2011, 1:22 PM Reply   
I was in the same position as you last year, got rid of an older tige to get a new or newer boat. I also had a price ceiling ($50k) and there are a TON of routes to go. New Axis, sanger, moomba, mb... or slightly used malibu's or tige's... it was fun. take your time, you have a couple months still to get a great deal on closeouts.

Cruise control- most all wakeboats have this now (but can be added if you have to)
3-5 people- you can get away with any new 20 footer, new the malibu vtx or axis a20 are the only 2 that will fit in your budget though. (x-2 and rzr are a bit more)
stereo- i saved 1500 by not getting the stock stereo, then put an entire system the way I wanted it, and WAY better speakers/amps, for 1700.

Go test drive and ride as many boats as you can. You can learn a lot in an hour demo/ride.

Have fun and enjoy it.
Old    CORY MITCHELL (stang_killa_ss)      Join Date: Jan 2010       12-28-2011, 1:28 PM Reply   
i was in the same "boat"
back and forth between axis and moomba. ended up going with moomba and love it. it was cheaper, had more ballast, had a trim/wake plate, and i felt the interior and hull had better finish/quality. go check them both out. i saw them side by side at a boat show after seeing them at there dealerships, that really helped.

2011 LSV's 46k and below


Last edited by stang_killa_ss; 12-28-2011 at 1:34 PM.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       12-28-2011, 3:21 PM Reply   
I have really enjoyed my Axis A22. I think that the fit and finish of my boat are very nice. No, not as nice as a MC or BU, but great for the money. I will say that the A22 produces one of the best wakes I've ever ridden. With the plug and play option and the wedge, the A22 give you one of the best options on the market for adding weight and producing a huge wake. I have had zero problems with my A22 this year, and plan to buy a 2012 soon. It's too bad that I have the big motor option in mine, or my boat would be in your price range.
Old    Dallas Cowboys #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-28-2011, 6:55 PM Reply   
Sounds like your dialed in with the Axis or Moomba new.Also 2009 and newer Supra,Malibu,Tige,Sanger,MB,Centurion and Epic.Mastercraft and Nautique probably won't fit into your above mentioned budget.Good Luck.
Old     (Gryphon)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-28-2011, 9:34 PM Reply   
Thanks for the info guys.

I wasn't sure what else out there would be under 45k brand new, I now see there are some options.

As for new I can search the various websites, its the new boat prices that arent always listed and when they are listed, they are at MSRP which we all know is drastically different that out the door price.

After doing some more research, one requirement is a wake that isnt too finicky, as I will be riding and I need something simple for the girlfriend to just drive and not have to worry about moving people/ballast around if at all possible.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-28-2011, 10:16 PM Reply   
Look like some great deals on the moomba lsv. All around great boat
Old    Jake Becker (jbeckerdc)      Join Date: Dec 2011       12-28-2011, 11:28 PM Reply   
I have an epic 2011 23V Mint for 45K check out videos, I am in Chattanooga, TN. Where are you located. The boat will probably we sold in the next week. Post me if you are interested. Doubt you will find more boat for money. The is basically a brand new boat.
jake 423-432-4148 or email:
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-29-2011, 7:21 AM Reply   
I have a 2011 MB 21 Tomcat with a 409hp, 100hrs, mint condition, loaded....heater, forward lights, transome lights, tower speakers, and everything else that is standard, tandem trailer etc. it is in the price range, it's worth more but the owner wants the cash for a down payment on a house. It's white with lime green swoosh graphics.
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-29-2011, 7:23 AM Reply   
An MB 21WB or 21Tomcat would fit you quite nicely, especially since you mentioned that you like to kneeboard and may wakesurf. MBs have one of the best kneeboard and wakesurf wakes out there. You could maybe get a 2011 in your price range.
Old    Cole K (SkySki)      Join Date: Feb 2010       12-29-2011, 9:35 AM Reply   
My local Action Watersports said they would order a 2012 F21 Tomcat anyway I want for 50K. Just a thought.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-29-2011, 9:51 AM Reply   
sure they metal flake a trailer?
Old     (Gryphon)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-29-2011, 7:18 PM Reply   
After doing some more research on the Epic boats, the one issue seems to be that the wake when loaded does not clean up until 24+ mph. I enjoy riding slower with less chance of getting hurt. Some say that you do not need a full ballast to do basic w2w etc and that the wake is clean at 18-19mph.

And the surf wake is fine?

Old    Eppie Martinez (Eppies07epic)      Join Date: Jun 2011       12-29-2011, 10:26 PM Reply   
Well from reading your original post, not saying i know you, you said you were basic...... wake to wake. I feel pretty confident in saying no ballast just wake plate will be good enough for a while. I've been in x-45's, x-stars, tige 20v and tige rz2,and a mb 23' tomcat. All loaded to some extent and the only boat that was comparable to the wake of the epic with no ballast just wake plat was the mb fully loaded. I live in denver and have a 2007 with a volvo 8.1 and the only problem I've had was planing out with full ballast and full with adult passengers, it did take a bit longer. Altitude is hell sometimes! The shape of the wake is best with front full and rears around half anyway. The wake is good at 18-19mph. I pull my kids at 21-22mph and have found that to be perfect for them, not as much work for the rider and a excellent wake.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-30-2011, 12:18 AM Reply   
@ OP saying a requirement is a wake that is not tempermental.....

wider beam boats usually are less weight sensitive from side to side. the xstar, malibus lsv's, vlx, vtx, axis a22 and a20. they are all wide beam boats that have clean wakes on both sides, even if the loading of passengers or gear is off to one side. Also important if your driver tends to have a little bit of a curve or turn instead of driving perfectly straight it tends to wash the outside wake. those boats do not have this problem as much. My old tige i had 2 leadwake bags on the floor to move around, my new axis I do not use any leadwake bags because the wake is super consistent even if a passenger moves around. this is nice because the floor of the boat is clear with nothing to step on or trip over. also when having new people that do not know any better and move around while we have riders to get drinks or take pictures, they do not mess up the wake. moombas have wide beams, not sure how sensitive it to weight, also mbs are wide, again, not sure if they are sensitive or not.
Old     (Gryphon)      Join Date: Jun 2010       12-30-2011, 9:06 AM Reply   
The Epic 23V has a beam of 98 inches which is the same as the A20 and 2" less than A22 yet the wake from what I hear is finicky on it yet not at all on the Axis boats. This would seem to contradict your comment.

Anyone know if Epic will be at the Toronto boat show or if they were there last year? I did not see them under the list of exhibitors but they could be listed under a dealer which I am not familiar with.
Old    Dallas Cowboys #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-30-2011, 10:01 AM Reply   
Epic has a smaller dealer base.I don't know if they have a dealer near Toronto.Some of the other wakeworlders may be able to help.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-30-2011, 10:38 AM Reply   
The A22 wake pics I've seen look ridiculously clean at slower speeds. I think I recall a pic that was at 17 that was clean on both sides.

Our 2011 MB TWB 23 absolutely will not clean up that slow, and the slower we go the more weight sensitive it is. 21 is about as slow as I can get it to reliably clean up. Slower than that and there will be wash on one side or the other. The weight sensitivity isn't a huge deal on the MBs with gravity fed ballast because it's easy to bleed a bit off of the heavy side in 10 or 15 seconds. If you have a driver that isn't so good at figuring that part out (sorry Mrs. Shawndoggy), though, it can take a bit of trial and error to get it just right. I've started riding at 23, and it is very clean that fast.

For reference, our old boat, 2006 malibu vride, could get clean around 19.
Old    R{west Side Ryder} W (rmotoxxx711)      Join Date: Oct 2008       12-30-2011, 10:53 AM Reply   
I personally ride behind a 2002 super air nautique so I'm no stranger to large wakes... If I were on your budget I would no doubt get a 2011 or 2012 MB B52, I realize your only wake to wake right now but I you or anyone in your crew wants to progress this wake is so sick. It has 1800 lbs of stock ballast so for you guys you would never ever need a fat sac (I personally run two cuz I like the wake above my knees. My buddy who owns one just runs ballast and rides only wake to wake and a 360 and couple of grabs and says ballast stock is more than enough). The boat is the roomiest boat I've eve been in where as my SAN 210 has an amazing wake but cramped inside. The B52 drives so easy and nice loaded down or not, and doesn't have a bunch of bling and crap you don't need but at the same time is very clean inside and has pullout snap in carpet. More storage than you'll ever need too.

On the axis I've ridden and been in them and they are nothing short of a really nice boat and clean wake I was just completely blown away at the B52 after being inevery boat available on the market. Honestly if I won the lottery tomorow and had no budget I'd still go get a b52. And if your in Cali I highly reccomend Larson Marine as there staff is very professional and knows there product inside and out and carries MB and Axis...
Hope this helps you
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-30-2011, 3:03 PM Reply   
gryphon. I do not know why the a20 with the same beam is not finicky like the epic 23. maybe the hull shape and or length of a boat has more to do with stability than the width does. I don't know, I did say that it "usually" is less weight sensitive... but that is only from my experience with the boats.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       12-30-2011, 5:52 PM Reply   
Gryphon - about the Epic, you should take a look at the 21V instead of the 23V. We used them at Nationals last year. I really liked it
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-30-2011, 6:33 PM Reply   
I would guess that the wedge will make a boat less weight balance sensitive since it's adding a force independent of gravity.

Totally agree with Ryan. MB is producing an amazing value for about $50K new.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-30-2011, 7:18 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by diamonddad View Post
I would guess that the wedge will make a boat less weight balance sensitive since it's adding a force independent of gravity.

Totally agree with Ryan. MB is producing an amazing value for about $50K new.
I would bet it also has something to do with a flatter hull. We never ran the wedge on our vride and it would still clean up nicely under 20.
Old    Logan Downer (logan)      Join Date: Dec 2011       12-30-2011, 9:02 PM Reply   
Currently riding behind a 2003 Super Air Nautique but once this boat is no more there is no other boat I will be looking at but the Axis A22, awesome quality and the idea behind it makes it that much more intriguing to me. Can't wait to get in to one, I would look at Boat Country in Escalon, CA they are a pretty awesome dealer.
Old    Peter T (deltawake)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-31-2011, 12:31 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by logan View Post
Currently riding behind a 2003 Super Air Nautique but once this boat is no more there is no other boat I will be looking at but the Axis A22, awesome quality and the idea behind it makes it that much more intriguing to me. Can't wait to get in to one, I would look at Boat Country in Escalon, CA they are a pretty awesome dealer.
I was just going to say exactly the same thing. Check out Boat Country in Escalon. I know that they have a nice lightly used AXIS 2011 A22. It should be close to your price range. Also, you can't beat the integrity and customer service of the people there.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-31-2011, 1:32 PM Reply   
I too do not use or have the wedge and its super stable, clean at 17 lightly weighted and clean at 22.8 slammed. I agree with the comment that maybe the flatter hulls are less sensitive.
Old    Dallas Cowboys #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-31-2011, 2:48 PM Reply   
Also a flatter hull will have a rougher ride than a semi V or V hull.A demo is a must so you can determine which boat is best for you.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-31-2011, 2:59 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
Also a flatter hull will have a rougher ride than a semi V or V hull.A demo is a must so you can determine which boat is best for you.
yep, fo sho. Give some to get some. There is no "perfect" boat.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-01-2012, 10:32 AM Reply   
If I were buying new it'd be a Axis in that price range, but I'd much prefer to find a Malibu VLX or LSV with a few hours on it. Our 2011 LSV is an amazing boat. Fit and finish were excellent. It was the first boat I was in that I felt like justified the price of admission. My favorite option on that boat: The heated seat.

Oh.... and the wake is awesome when it's loaded up.

There are a lot of great boats out there. Test drive and see what you think. It's a great time to buy a boat.


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