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Old    G Q (Cisco)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-03-2011, 4:16 PM Reply   
[Notice how it has been 2 months and still no Move of the Year Video? No, I'm not gonna let that go.]


Below are four videos. The first two videos are from 2009, and the last two videos are from 2011. You might notice that Dean Smith has progressed. But what you might notice is that Watson, Ruck and Sharpe are doing the same darn tricks this year as they were two years ago!

2009

Watson, Smith, Sharpe from Chad Sharpe on Vimeo.



Pointless Crew from Chad Sharpe on Vimeo.



2011

ERIK RUCK, CHAD SHARPE, SHAWN WATSON, DEAN SMITH from Chad Sharpe on Vimeo.



Chad Sharpe, Dean Smith, Erik Ruck, Dylan Prideaux from Chad Sharpe on Vimeo.




Behind the boat these three Pointless members have shown no signs of progressing their bags of tricks. Ruck learned a Mute Double Roll 180 [ http://vimeo.com/30409859 ] however, he was cableboarding. I would almost say Watson and Sharpe have gotten worse (sorry). Then I see video of Murray from 2011 [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmdnUF-pR24 ] and he's learned a ton of new tricks in the last two years. He's also older than Watson, Ruck and Sharpe!

It is up to them if they choose to let their riding go stagnant. Who I am to judge? Oh yeah, I'm a guy who has learned more new tricks than a bunch of pro wakeboarders did in the last 2 years.

The moral of this post is to keep pushin' yourself like Murray and don't give up like Sharpe, Ruck and Watson. But if doing the same tricks for more than two years is still fun to you, then that's good too
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       11-03-2011, 4:27 PM Reply   
Going to put on some comfy sweatpants, make some popcorn... and watch this.
Old    Dave (daveronix199)      Join Date: Feb 2009       11-03-2011, 5:41 PM Reply   
Pretty sure Watson has made a name for him self... being the first rider to hit a 9 in contest.. Have a deck in the top 3 board of the year for like the past 8 years... pretty sure he is a legend... Sharp almost drowned 2 years ago on a back 5... id slow down too

Pretty sure Ruck stepped his game up on rails... and kills it... have you seen out of the pond?!
Old    J.B. O'Neill (gnarslayer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       11-03-2011, 6:10 PM Reply   
the youngsters will take over soon!
Old    J Brewer (wakecumberlandky)      Join Date: Feb 2011       11-03-2011, 6:34 PM Reply   
here we go again! Cisco thank you for another interesting thread
Old    Craig R (craigr)      Join Date: May 2007       11-03-2011, 7:05 PM Reply   
your sample size for this is 4 videos?
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-03-2011, 8:07 PM Reply   
Cisco, I haven't been around here for very long. Have you ever posted a video of your riding? Could you link me to it? I'd like to see it.

Also, my two cents on this is that I can't possibly decide from such a small sampling of riding how much these guys have or haven't progressed. That said, it doesn't really matter. There will always be that select group of pros that take it upon themselves to push the sport (Harley, etc.). Not everyone has to be one of those guys. All of these people have achieved an incredible standard of excellence and legendary status, and if they are happy with the way their riding is now, then so be it. They don't owe it to anyone to learn new tricks.

Last edited by TheHebrewHammer; 11-03-2011 at 8:12 PM.
Old    Ben Wilcox (benjaminp)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2011, 8:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHebrewHammer View Post
Cisco, I haven't been around here for very long. Have you ever posted a video of your riding? Could you link me to it? I'd like to see it.
This. How are your 9's coming along?
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-03-2011, 10:06 PM Reply   
Ya man, let's see your progression!
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       11-03-2011, 11:33 PM Reply   
I DID see an clip of Chad doing a switch indy-glide to blind. I thought it was pretty sweet.
Old    readyaimfire            11-04-2011, 3:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHebrewHammer View Post
Ya man, let's see your progression!
Hahahaha, love it! Callin him out!
Old    Alex Yermolenko (alexair)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-04-2011, 5:01 AM Reply   
Even if these guys will finish the own progress now they are names in WW but who will be Cisco over few years? The best threadmaker, maybe.
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-04-2011, 6:08 AM Reply   
Didn't Chad learn a double indy TBR not too long ago?
Old    Dave (daveronix199)      Join Date: Feb 2009       11-04-2011, 6:34 AM Reply   
I would agree to the statement above Cisco makes best wake world threads


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-04-2011, 8:22 AM Reply   
Wow!
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-04-2011, 8:43 AM Reply   
I vote for the people doing the same darn tricks because they are more like me.
Old    Professor (brhanley)      Join Date: Jun 2001       11-04-2011, 9:11 AM Reply   
I think this is true in not just wakeboarding, but most sports. Hard to progress in your mid-20's+, especially when being a pro entails contests (hard to progress when you're traveling), demos (hard to progress when you're teaching others), and generally doing things other than just riding (e.g., promoting, boat shows, etc.). Maybe you add some grabs, some height, some style, some new variations, etc., but it is more common for guys to plateau in their riding than to keep moving up levels once they get to a certain level in the industry (subject obviously to some exceptions). Snowboarders who ride park/pipe usually move to big mountain riding as they get older and the young groms throw more spins/flips. Saw some cool winch stuff with Watson a few years ago and I think all those guys are pushing things in non-traditional ways (cable/system 2.0, winch, etc.) where it's not about adding one more rotation. Nothing wrong with that and certainly not cool to call them out. As in everything, there's less room to "progress" once you are close to the peak.
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-04-2011, 9:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brhanley View Post
I think this is true in not just wakeboarding, but most sports. Hard to progress in your mid-20's+, especially when being a pro entails contests (hard to progress when you're traveling), demos (hard to progress when you're teaching others), and generally doing things other than just riding (e.g., promoting, boat shows, etc.). Maybe you add some grabs, some height, some style, some new variations, etc., but it is more common for guys to plateau in their riding than to keep moving up levels once they get to a certain level in the industry (subject obviously to some exceptions). Snowboarders who ride park/pipe usually move to big mountain riding as they get older and the young groms throw more spins/flips. Saw some cool winch stuff with Watson a few years ago and I think all those guys are pushing things in non-traditional ways (cable/system 2.0, winch, etc.) where it's not about adding one more rotation. Nothing wrong with that and certainly not cool to call them out. As in everything, there's less room to "progress" once you are close to the peak.
....says the guy in his late thirty's who shreds all over his younger riding buddies.
Old    Brendan (kybool)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-04-2011, 9:18 AM Reply   
And I agree, Cisco's posts are the best.
Old    DJ (Dj2up10)      Join Date: Aug 2010       11-04-2011, 11:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brhanley View Post
I think this is true in not just wakeboarding, but most sports. Hard to progress in your mid-20's+, especially when being a pro entails contests (hard to progress when you're traveling), demos (hard to progress when you're teaching others), and generally doing things other than just riding (e.g., promoting, boat shows, etc.). Maybe you add some grabs, some height, some style, some new variations, etc., but it is more common for guys to plateau in their riding than to keep moving up levels once they get to a certain level in the industry (subject obviously to some exceptions). Snowboarders who ride park/pipe usually move to big mountain riding as they get older and the young groms throw more spins/flips. Saw some cool winch stuff with Watson a few years ago and I think all those guys are pushing things in non-traditional ways (cable/system 2.0, winch, etc.) where it's not about adding one more rotation. Nothing wrong with that and certainly not cool to call them out. As in everything, there's less room to "progress" once you are close to the peak.
Great points above.

If you're anything like me, someone who has literally grown up during the life of this sport, the old cliche rings very true, "Bad habits are hard to break".

For example, I've done so many tricks a certain way that I've found it harder and harder to dial tricks in the way I'd want to because of a)lack of water time and b) muscle memory. As lame as it is, I chase my indy grabs on tantrums a lot because I've been doing them the wrong way for so long. I absolutely need to re learn many tricks.

Or take a guy like Murray, who has always admitted his "brain fart" (as he says) about traditional front flips. He can only do them switch. He is certainly a guy that has worked to progress in the right way, (watch the video in the nearby thread if you haven't yet). He is a bit of anomaly as we all know...

So for guys like Ruck, Watson, Sharpe, etc, I am not surprised to see them plateau in certain areas of their riding, and in many ways don't fault them for it. When they're in new mediums, they progress a bit-like rails etc, but at the end of the day this is a very tough sport to ride off in the sunset in.

All in all, we can't expect any of these guys to chase the young bucks until the wheels fall off.
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-04-2011, 11:39 AM Reply   
harleys been doing enough progression for all them
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-04-2011, 3:08 PM Reply   
Wason doesn't need new tricks. He still makes it look better than most of the riders out there.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-04-2011, 4:46 PM Reply   
I would argue that it is hard for guys at the top to progress a ton year after year, there is only so much that can be done on a wakeboard and like DJ mentioned, certain guys have limitations to their riding. I think it was Rattray who said he has a hard time riding switch. Hell, they could be practicing their tour runs in those videos.

To call strangers out on a public forum for not pushing the sport that they helped create is pretty weak. They don't have to answer to anyone, especially a $#!T stirring internet wake pro. Watson, Ruck & Sharpe have been professionals in this sport since the mid/late 90's, they have progressed not only their tricks but the entire sport. So you may have pushed yourself and landed a TS wake jump, Watson made Toe 9s common, Sharpe landed a TS Double Back Roll, Ruck pushed the Mute Mobe (& won the tour). To further set them apart, they didn't talk crap and are cool individuals.
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-04-2011, 5:09 PM Reply   
Seriously those two 2011 videos are the worst examples you could have pulled of them. To me it looks like they are just chilling, having a fun set and doing tricks that they enjoy doing. Do you it's fun to go out and spin a million 7s and 9s every set, NO, it's exhausting, and they have nothing to prove to each other by going out and doing that. The really technical spins and mobes are the tricks you get hurt on. You have so much momentum going in so many different directions that when you fall, you fall hard.
Do you think Phil or Bob or Harley go out every set and just try 1080 variations until they stick one? The answer is, no. Look at Nick Davies, the seemingly iron man of our sport, that could go as big as he wanted at all times, and never get hurt. He decides to try w2w temper tantrums and what does he do, blow out his ACL (the fall looked minor btw but that is actually more common than not with guys that ride at that level every day vs your weekend warrior who has some freak fall that just snaps it because there is no other way the knee could go). Could this have been avoided? Maybe that day, yes but it was bound to happen soon. When you put that much stress on your body parts, especially him blasting 20+ foot high air to flat kicker hits every day, eventually something is going to go. His ACL was just ready to be replaced. If you watch Nick ride, he is one of those riders that just knows how to land. No matter how big he goes, he just knows how to position his body to create the least amount of force when landing. I've seen him ride many times, and have never seen him break a board where a guy that goes as big as he does should be breaking boards pretty often.

When I used to ride the cable 5 days a week back in college, I was breaking a board a month, and it wasn't from rail hits because if you have ever been to rixen (until recently) kickers were the predominant obstacles. Consequently along with my boards went my knees. When the regular Nevin braces didn't help anymore and I finally decided to see the ortho, he looked at my MRI and said that my knees looked like a 75 year old runner's knees and that my menisci, both medial and lateral in my right knee were so damaged that if scoped me, he would have to take out so much meniscus that I would practically be bone on bone, and I was only 20 years old. I was pretty good back then, rode for double up and a couple other companies, was in my best physical shape of my life, and was always trying new tricks trying to progress as much as possible, but the doctor's appointment marked my peak. I had no intention of being a professional wakeboarder, nor the ability. For the better riders on this site or even the newer kids that want to be a pro, it isn't the amount of training you do or how perfect your form is as much as it is an innate ability that you either have or you don't. Don't interpret this wrong, you can be VERY good, and have some mobes and a 7 but unless you have that extra something, this is generally the wall that most advanced riders meet. Yes, you are good enough to get sponsored and get some free gear (which is AN AWESOME FEELING AND GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT), but you aren't good enough to get paid.

You take a kid like Daniel Powers (not using Harley because he is just a phenom) who I've seen riding the competition scene for what seems like almost ten years (he is 18). He was this little kid that after just watching him do a big indy tantrum into the flats, you could tell there was something special. Not the fact that he was only 9-10 years old, but just something about how he rode making it look not just easy but natural. Then he shows up the next year, and has perfect handle pass roll 2 blinds, then the next year, a bag full of mobes and some tech spins and it always just made it look so easy. Yes, he worked with best coaches in the world as he grew up and he had the support of his dad who saw wakeboarding no different than how my dad saw baseball, but he still had that extra touch. JD was another kid that was at all of those local tournaments, and just stood above everyone else even though he was 4-5 years younger than his competitors. Then as an example of maxing out your abilities was his friend John Jeffries that he always rode with. He went to the same coaches, rode all of the same tournaments, but his bag of tricks just didn't grow like Daniel's. When you watched him ride, you felt like you were watching a coaching session. He just never showed that fluid natural ability, but with the right coaching, he ended up with a few mobes and a 7 at at 16/17 years old. Unfortunately you could tell that he probably wasn't going to go any further. He got to ride for Hyperlite and some other big sponsors and even was on New Pollution, which like I said before is an amazing accomplishment and something he can always look back at when he is older and be stoked.
Old    Mike Odenwaelder (hyperlite_boards)      Join Date: Aug 2007       11-04-2011, 5:29 PM Reply   
How much more is there, what do you want them to stomp some 12s?...they are landing the hardest tricks and perfecting them, each guy has his own style, the wakes have not changed much in the past years so going bigger is not an option but mark my words the new x star is going to be a game changer i would be willing to bet there will be some tricks thrown down this year that we have never seen before
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-04-2011, 6:28 PM Reply   
Mike, is the wake going to be that much bigger? The only sad part about the new x-star is the only people that will own one will be pros that ride for Mastercraft. $140k is just not a reasonable price tag no matter what the wake is like. And at 25 feet, unless you had a big boat before, you are going to be doing some serious renovations to your lift and dock. We have a cove at the end of our pass where we throw our double ups and I don't think a boat that big would make it. With our 210 sacked out, and the X-Star (x-1) sacked out, you are turning hard and right when the rider lands, you have to immediately turn so you don't run into the docks. We come close enough with a 20-21 foot boat, wouldn't want to try it with those extra 4 feet. It would be amazing to get to ride behind one just to get to ride a 25 foot boat designed to have a perfect wakeboard wake because it is going to jaw dropping, but even if I won the lottery, it wouldn't be the boat I end up buying.

And the story with the boat being a game changer? I think the tricks stuck behind it are going to viewed with a grain of salt because if the regular wake is bigger than the average boats double up then why expect any less. I think it is a good move for the pro tour aspect because 9's are going to turn into 10's like 7's turned into 9's when the 2003 x-star came out on tour. Phil's crow 5's will certainly be crow 7's, Harley will have at least 2 10 variations consistent and at least 1 mobe 7 not including his whirlydicks, and we will see some bs 9's too. The sport of actual WAKEboarding needs this though otherwise the cable will completely swallow the sport in a few more years. It is important for the boat side of things that the riders can't do anymore tricks, mainly spin extra degrees on the cable to the boat. There is still the "core" guys that criticize spinning off of the kicker, having the ability to go twice as big, and "cheat" the spin but for what I think is a majority of us now, I find it just as exciting to see someone hit a 9/10/12 in any variation off of a kicker as i do the wake and with some big spins, I think they are more impressive off of a kicker.
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-04-2011, 6:36 PM Reply   
ok I didn't even watch the 09 and 10 vids until just now and the reason the riding is so much different is that they were both taken at the beginning of pro tour season. They were doing their hardest tricks and runs to practice their tour runs. Do you think it's normal in the 2010 video that that many people would show up for a riding session or do you think that the pros are different and like to just take one set and then sit in the boat and watch 6 other people ride? I'm going to look at the site now and see how the riding was from any videos posted during tour time. I have a feeling they are going to be pretty high caliber.
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-04-2011, 7:10 PM Reply   
here is a vid from september that was unreal riding from chad and dean. 1:59 Dean Smith double grab hoochie blind judge. he also mentions on the top of the page for september that he has been spending his time filming for momentum and defy

Chad & Dean from Alex de Guzman on Vimeo.

Old    Josh Robinson (sideswipeproductions)      Join Date: Jun 2009       11-04-2011, 7:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Who I am to judge? Oh yeah, I'm a guy who has learned more new tricks than a bunch of pro wakeboarders did in the last 2 years.
Hi, I'm a guy that's watched those guys ride while living with 'em for those two years. And it would seem that you're actually a guy who has no idea what he's talking about.

Ever.

Last edited by sideswipeproductions; 11-04-2011 at 7:23 PM.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-04-2011, 7:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sideswipeproductions View Post
Hi, I'm a guy that's watched those guys ride while living with 'em for those two years. And it would seem that you're actually a guy who has no idea what he's talking about.

Ever.
My thoughts exactly.If you have to tell someone how good you are,you must not be good enough to get noticed.
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-04-2011, 10:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sideswipeproductions View Post
Hi, I'm a guy that's watched those guys ride while living with 'em for those two years. And it would seem that you're actually a guy who has no idea what he's talking about.

Ever.
I didn't even read that, but I would love to see a list lol. The only new trick Murray did in that video was the w2w hs bs oa 7. Otherwise, it was the same murray riding i have seen for probably 5 years.
Old    DJ (Dj2up10)      Join Date: Aug 2010       11-05-2011, 7:00 PM Reply   
The biggest issue with this thread in general is that it's directed towards actual people rather than kept in theory.

If we discuss "progression" in general, that's an interesting topic. Otherwise, posts like this quickly turn into pissing contests making us all sound like lame arm chair quarter backs.

The fact is that these guys are pros/ambassadors for our sport. Unless they are publicly squandering their fortunate position, which might result in a lack of progression/passion for the sport, then I have a hard time saying anything disparaging against them.

Many of us on this forum have been riding long enough to understand how and why many of these guys are adding a bunch of new tricks to their bag every new web clip. Come on, let's be realistic.
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       11-06-2011, 1:07 PM Reply   
Robert, ever seen The Game of GNAR? I feel like that post that was quoted was clearly an attempt at a Pro Call Out in an effort to score extra GNAR points.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-06-2011, 3:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye7708 View Post
Robert, ever seen The Game of GNAR? I feel like that post that was quoted was clearly an attempt at a Pro Call Out in an effort to score extra GNAR points.
My mom used to tell me"Get the log out of your eye before you worry about the spec in someone elses".Also she said "You don't have to brag if your good,others will notice if your good."
Old    DeeCee (jaybee)      Join Date: Aug 2007       11-06-2011, 4:43 PM Reply   
I think cisco just likes winding you guys up. Clearly Watsons, Sharpes, and Rucks riding is undeniably siiiiiiiiiiiiick!!
Old    Bryce Stevens (SS_Hooke102)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-06-2011, 4:47 PM Reply   
I know i'm totally derailing but, anyone notice that in that video Chad Sharp has the most steezy off-axis tricks ever??
Old    DJ (Dj2up10)      Join Date: Aug 2010       11-06-2011, 6:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS_Hooke102 View Post
I know i'm totally derailing but, anyone notice that in that video Chad Sharp has the most steezy off-axis tricks ever??
Especially that bs 180 that he does DIFFERENT than everyone else.
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-06-2011, 8:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_L View Post
For the better riders on this site or even the newer kids that want to be a pro, it isn't the amount of training you do or how perfect your form is as much as it is an innate ability that you either have or you don't. Don't interpret this wrong, you can be VERY good, and have some mobes and a 7 but unless you have that extra something, this is generally the wall that most advanced riders meet. Yes, you are good enough to get sponsored and get some free gear (which is AN AWESOME FEELING AND GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT), but you aren't good enough to get paid.
Interesting take there. I hope I don't run into this kind of ceiling with my riding, but if I do, I'll be satisfied that I've become the best rider I can possibly be. I can't ask for anything more than that, and neither can Chad, Watson, Ruck, Deano, or any of us.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-06-2011, 8:56 PM Reply   
I hope the pro's continue to post their video's like this, no matter the "level" of tricks, rather than stop in avoidance of this stupid criticism.
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-06-2011, 9:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by behindtheboat View Post
I hope the pro's continue to post their video's like this, no matter the "level" of tricks, rather than stop in avoidance of this stupid criticism.
Don't worry. These guys understand that riding, above all else, is supposed to be fun. I imagine they're above petty insecurities.
Old    G Q (Cisco)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-07-2011, 4:03 PM Reply   
Thank you so much for all the positive comments. I was worried when I put this thread up because I thought people would lash out at my internet alter-ego. It's not that I want any of this thread to get back to Ruck, Watson and Sharpe. I think pro riders should pay no attention to this forum because jerks like me are always going to be critical. But I hope mashing my well-lotioned hands on a greasy keyboard while my parents are out is not powerful enough to ruin some pro's career in another state or Canada.

I didn't mean to brag about the tricks I learned as if I'm better than other people. Heck, the tricks I learned are not half as hard as the stock tricks for Ruck, Sharpe, and Watson. They would annihilate me in competition. I respect all the pros and non-pros who have put time into advancing our sport (that means you Kyle). I don't expect them to stomp 12s. Even Rusty seems to have all but given up on that goal.

If the pros came to me for coaching I would recommend:

- Chad get a consistent HS Back Mobe (no grab, Mute, or Nose)
- Ruck get a consistent switch Whirly (he can already to sw T2B)
- Watson get a consistent Whirly 540 (he can do Whirly's and T2B no prob)
- Rusty learn a TF 10 from regular (instead of switch)


Hey Kyle. I'm really sad to hear about your life changing trip to the doctor. I can tell you are very passionate about this sport. Wakeboarding means a lot to me too. BTW: 140K for a wakeboarding boat? That's like half the cost of a full-sized cable! Also, I thought Murray's switch TB1 was a new trick, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure his S-Bend is new though.

Some people want to see my progression. Unfortunately, in the last year on this website I've smack talked about Rusty (not landing a 1260), Dillon Miller (not wearing a vest), Shapiro ( in his peak not being able to beat Harley), Parks ( not being better than Shane), and now Ruck, Watson and Sharpe. If I show my riding (or trick list) and people figure out my true identity, some of the biggest names in our sport will not be happy with me. It would be career suicide and I ain't going nowhere. Besides, I need this cloak of mystery to give me the freedom to say what I am (and maybe others are) already thinking. What would you prefer? A soft, sugar-coated forum that has only goody-goody things to say about the sport/industry (which includes pro riders), or an uncomfortable harsh but real perspective?
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-07-2011, 4:23 PM Reply   
Robert, looks like ur mom is a wise lady...she obviously reads the bible
Old    Mike McMillen (Mike_McMillen)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-07-2011, 6:29 PM Reply   
I think its hard to make an assesment based on a few short web videos. Not sure if anyone pointed this out already because I'm too lazy to read through the entire thread, but I doubt anyone wants to post bangers on a web video when they can save it for a full length video release. Also most guys have a bag of tricks deeper than you could imagine and a clip that is a minute and a half long doesn't give much justice to their abilities and progression. I have sat in the boat and watched riding that of people that I thought I already had their style nailed and judged them based on a few video sections, to later have my mind blown and my attitude humbled after watching them ride and having real conversations with them. Cisco you have some courage having the ability to question what you see, call the baby ugly and sit in the constructive tension of it. I give you a lot of credit, I bet if you tried a little softer your communication would be less widely criticized.

Be Well,
-MM
Old     (GusFace33)      Join Date: Feb 2011       11-07-2011, 8:11 PM Reply   
Interesting topic. In my opinion, progression only becomes an "issue" when someone is deemed overrated. If "Johnny" only does five tricks, but he's "pro" because of his role in the industry rather than his collection of maneuvers, Johnny's progression is irrelevant. I sometimes wonder if certain riders are used in that capacity and their salaries reflect that new assigned role (pros just like humans do grow older). With that, usually overrated is accompanied with what we consider inflated salaries and a strong hold on the available media exposure. Focusing solely on that, I would in fact question some of the younger riders actual progression paired with some of the major sponsors they landed when they were considered "it" commodities in the industry. If these two roles do not match up, then should not their progression also be questioned?
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-08-2011, 6:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
. Besides, I need this cloak of mystery to give me the freedom to say what I am (and maybe others are) already thinking. What would you prefer? A soft, sugar-coated forum that has only goody-goody things to say about the sport/industry (which includes pro riders), or an uncomfortable harsh but real perspective?
amen.. so many tip toeing pussies on this forum - it's unreal.. say what you gotta say... Lot of butthurt people on here that can't handle anyone not giving them a plate of candy and telling them how awesome they are.

I enjoy your troll threads! Keep it up.
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-08-2011, 8:45 AM Reply   
Cisco, it's actually nice to not have to hobble around everyday although i will tell you, it's not like it goes away. It amazes me when guys like sharpe and watson have been able to maintain their level of riding and interest in riding after going to through all of the injuries that they must just fight through on a daily basis. Wakeboarding is not like riding a bike, when you take a break it takes a while to relearn everything at the level you were at before. Those kicker hits sharpe was doing a couple years ago just make me cringe. Landing off of a kicker on the boat is like landing on concrete with your legs completely extended, there is no give.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-08-2011, 9:14 AM Reply   
Recommending that Ruck do a switch Whirly is progression to you? That's going to get him a new video part, or help him win a comp, or get recognition? Interesting.
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-08-2011, 10:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
Some people want to see my progression. Unfortunately, in the last year on this website I've smack talked about Rusty (not landing a 1260), Dillon Miller (not wearing a vest), Shapiro ( in his peak not being able to beat Harley), Parks ( not being better than Shane), and now Ruck, Watson and Sharpe. If I show my riding (or trick list) and people figure out my true identity, some of the biggest names in our sport will not be happy with me. It would be career suicide and I ain't going nowhere.
Where do you aspire to go? What sort of career do you want to build for yourself? What are your goals?
Old    G Q (Cisco)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-08-2011, 11:30 AM Reply   
jarrod, hop on the short bus cuz I'm taking you to school.

visit http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/progression and you will see:

World English Dictionary
progression (prəˈɡrɛʃən)

—n
1. the act of progressing; advancement
2. the act or an instance of moving from one thing or unit in a sequence to the next

If Ruck moves from switch Tantrum to blind to switch Whirly, anyone speaking 'the' English can call that progression. That won't change the fact that he already gets video parts, so moot point. I don't know if Ruck can match Harley or a Soven brother to win a comp. He would get recognition, though. I'm sure some one would notice if he did back to back Whirly's.

HebrewHammer, I aspire to go to CWC, Hydrous, WWA Worlds (for boat) and hopefully the Olympics. I would like to get sponsors who will pay my plane tickets and entrance fees, but I don't care about a board sponsor or a clothing sponsor. I'd rather ride and wear whatever I want. A boat sponsor would be sick, yet I see myself evolving into a cableboarder more and more. My goal is to get all my tech tricks dialed, get better at toeside Air tricks, learn 7's & 9's, S-Mobes, S-to-Blind, and get a Tantrum off the wake (I have done Belairs years ago). Eventually I want to run my own cable park somewhere tropical and have three smokin' hot mistresses half my age who speak very little English. Or maybe I'll choose one woman to nag me for the rest of my life and still try to love her just the same when she is old, fat and unwavering to go beyond missionary. Tough call. Real tough call.
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-08-2011, 11:42 AM Reply   
Haha, good read man, thanks. Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
Old    G Q (Cisco)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-08-2011, 11:51 AM Reply   


vs

Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       11-08-2011, 3:21 PM Reply   
I think it's pretty impressive that Cisco has over 3,000 profile views from only april of last year.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-08-2011, 3:37 PM Reply   
This thread makes me long for the days of the New Crew. For those that weren't into the sport when the New Crew was shaking things up, here's what they were about.

1) Making wakeboarding look good by incorporating style and grabs into all of their tricks.
2) Riding for the pleasure of riding a wakeboard.
3) Not doing certain tricks because judges determined them to be "better".
4) Wakeboarding instead of skiboarding.

Wakeboarding should be about expression and riding for no one but yourself. For someone to suggest that a pro should do certain tricks in the name of progression is contrary to the freedom that this sport is all about. Progression should not be mandated or dictated. Progression should be about the feeling that you get from making YOUR riding look exactly how you want it. Nothing more.

To tell someone how to express themselves within their craft is ludicrous. No one told VanGogh to paint more abstract. No one told Jimi Hendrix to fix his unorthodox style.
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-08-2011, 6:19 PM Reply   
This is slightly off-topic, but in my opinion, the "style police" in our sport are just as bad as the people who demand technical progression. I have little respect for anyone who tries to impose their ideas of what wakeboarding should be/look like on anyone else.
Old    Josh Robinson (sideswipeproductions)      Join Date: Jun 2009       11-08-2011, 7:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
If the pros came to me for coaching I would recommend:
- Ruck get a consistent switch Whirly (he can already to sw T2B)
Quoted for the lolz
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-08-2011, 8:00 PM Reply   
who cares and WHO DOESNT

if you wanna track stats watch baseball or some ****. theyre still fun to watch so i really dont give a flying ****
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-08-2011, 8:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisco View Post


vs

and you pick a shemale for your mistress. sick dude. don't ever wanna ride with you.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       11-09-2011, 7:53 AM Reply   
hahaha Cisco picks the shemale over the chick with her mouth open, already sporting a pearl necklace.. nice
Old    G Q (Cisco)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-09-2011, 8:56 AM Reply   
OMG!!! Ive been fooled again by another tranny?!?!? Now that you mention it, her shoulders ARE wider than her hips. And the face is kinda mannish. To be honest, I really cant tell...and that scares me. It's like Pat Pong market all over again!
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       11-09-2011, 2:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
OMG!!! Ive been fooled again by another tranny?!?!? Now that you mention it, her shoulders ARE wider than her hips. And the face is kinda mannish. To be honest, I really cant tell...and that scares me. It's like Pat Pong market all over again!
hahaha, this thread still sucks, but im glad you have a sense of humor
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       11-10-2011, 8:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
Some people want to see my progression. Unfortunately, in the last year on this website I've smack talked about Rusty (not landing a 1260), Dillon Miller (not wearing a vest), Shapiro ( in his peak not being able to beat Harley), Parks ( not being better than Shane), and now Ruck, Watson and Sharpe. If I show my riding (or trick list) and people figure out my true identity, some of the biggest names in our sport will not be happy with me. It would be career suicide and I ain't going nowhere. Besides, I need this cloak of mystery to give me the freedom to say what I am (and maybe others are) already thinking. What would you prefer? A soft, sugar-coated forum that has only goody-goody things to say about the sport/industry (which includes pro riders), or an uncomfortable harsh but real perspective?
Dude I am calling out COMPLETE B.S. You do seem to know a lot but I am still calling you out. None of what you say has any merit if you cannot back it up with film. I donít care about this career suicide youíre claiming. Anyone can hide on a forum and talk crap all day. What's the point of that? Why hide and stir up controversy. I think it's because your insecure, are not the advanced rider you claim to be, and really have no wake affiliation. If you are truly a passionate wakeboarder at a pro-level, you should be trying to motivate your fellow riders by posting your progress. Showing what wakeboarding means to you, expressing your riding. Not hiding and trolling wakeworld.com and constantly talking smack. I intentionally don't open your threads because you get under my skin, and the last thing I wanna do is start a useless wakeworld fight, but in casual conversation with a pro rider I was told about this thread, we had a good laugh and I thought, I gotta read this garbage.

Time to MAN UP and show what you talk about and stop hiding behind your BS wakeworld Alias! You talk a BIG GAME. Letís see this BIG Game. But whatís the point of talking a big game on wakeworld? Maybe like 100 responses to a thread you started?
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-10-2011, 8:22 AM Reply   
He never claimed to be a pro-level rider...
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       11-10-2011, 9:27 AM Reply   
My bad. Okay, I re-read his post you right never claimed that. I am just sick of the hiding and throwing mud!

Last edited by andy_nintzel; 11-10-2011 at 9:29 AM.
Old    Henry Gates (captain_vilfo)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-10-2011, 10:14 AM Reply   
lol I love how each stupid thread builds on another. Keep making these posts Cisqo, I enjoy viewing a totally different perspective about the wakeboarding world. I also enjoy seeing people get all worked up over ridiculous comments that really dont influence the wakeboarding world by one bit.
Old    Bizzuck (bizzuck)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-10-2011, 10:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_nintzel View Post
Dude I am calling out COMPLETE B.S.
that this is a 9. Or ts niner. However you want to say it.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       11-10-2011, 11:35 AM Reply   
Niner!
Old    Adam Levitt (alevitt)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-10-2011, 12:25 PM Reply   
Andy = taking the bait hook, line and sinker
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       11-10-2011, 1:08 PM Reply   
Adam, I know, I know. I hit Post and instantly had regret. That's alright tho, I manned up and left my post instead of deleting it.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-10-2011, 1:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_nintzel View Post
Dude I am calling out COMPLETE B.S. You do seem to know a lot but I am still calling you out. None of what you say has any merit if you cannot back it up with film. I donít care about this career suicide youíre claiming. Anyone can hide on a forum and talk crap all day. What's the point of that? Why hide and stir up controversy. I think it's because your insecure, are not the advanced rider you claim to be, and really have no wake affiliation. If you are truly a passionate wakeboarder at a pro-level, you should be trying to motivate your fellow riders by posting your progress. Showing what wakeboarding means to you, expressing your riding. Not hiding and trolling wakeworld.com and constantly talking smack. I intentionally don't open your threads because you get under my skin, and the last thing I wanna do is start a useless wakeworld fight, but in casual conversation with a pro rider I was told about this thread, we had a good laugh and I thought, I gotta read this garbage.

Time to MAN UP and show what you talk about and stop hiding behind your BS wakeworld Alias! You talk a BIG GAME. Letís see this BIG Game. But whatís the point of talking a big game on wakeworld? Maybe like 100 responses to a thread you started?
Although you're posting in a troll thread and took the bait - be careful with the callouts or you might be next!
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       11-10-2011, 2:41 PM Reply   
I am already out!
Old    Bizzuck (bizzuck)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-11-2011, 6:57 AM Reply   
Yeah you are...

Now go change the caption on those photos to "Copeland-Durham Handlepass Crow"
Old    Mike Odenwaelder (hyperlite_boards)      Join Date: Aug 2007       11-11-2011, 7:17 AM Reply   
CISCO = DANNY HARF

Its the only logical conclusion
Old     (TheHebrewHammer)      Join Date: Jun 2011       11-11-2011, 8:08 AM Reply   
lol NO
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-11-2011, 8:48 AM Reply   
You're definitely not taking me to any kind of school, kid.

By your logic, if Ruck would have learned a switch Whirly this year, then he would not have made your list of riders that DIDN'T progress. I'm not buying that at all. That's not the huge progression that you're looking for. But, carry on with your silly thread. You are entertaining. I'll give you that.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       11-12-2011, 12:34 PM Reply   
I like ciscos posts, even though the majority are negative and insulting...its fun to sit and watch the drama unfold.

Heres something to think about, cisco. U stated u learned more new tricks than pros have in 2 years. I am assuming that was an inaccurate statement, that u were trying to say that you have learned more new tricks THIS YEAR... either way it is not impressive, and here is a golf analogy to show why:

I do not know what is in your bag of tricks, but i am assuming iits not pro level, probably not even outlaw level. As a golfer gets closer to playing scratch golf, it gets harder to drop strokes. A 30 handicapper can easiky become a 20 handicapper over a summer. Dropping those 10 strokes is good, but not impressive. A 2 handicapper dropping one stroke to become a 1 handicap is VERY impressive. In the same way, you learning 7 tricks this year is no where near as impressive or difficult as murray or ruck or phil learning just 1 trick.

As you get better, room for improvement diminishes. Got it?
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-16-2011, 8:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzuck View Post
that this is a 9. Or ts niner. However you want to say it.
OHHHH SNAP!!! Although definitely not a 9, andy still rips, and has proven this with footy and photos
Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-16-2011, 8:42 PM Reply   
Andy, I don't think Cisco was too out of line in his criticism of the guys riding. They really have been doing the same tricks for a while now, but was wrong in the fact that they weren't progressing. Maybe off of the wake they aren't pushing as hard as they used to but they are doing some "stunts" that show that they are still at the upper echelon of the sport. Ruck's double half cab roll off the kicker was gnar, his mobe to transfer was gnar, and Sharpe's double ts indy backroll was gnar. I don't see them joining the 1080 club, MAYBE RUCK, but spinning wise i think they have peaked but they are always throwing new grabs and pokes that keep it fresh BUT for a person who hasn't been in the sport for as many years as we have and haven't seen Ruck and Sharpe riding for 10 years, I can see where those 3 years can seem like they hit their wall.

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