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Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2011, 11:04 PM Reply   
WOW!

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articl...%20dog&eddate=

August 11, 2011, 06:45 PM Bay City News Service
A pregnant Pacifica woman was mauled and killed by her dog at her home early today, police said.

Pacifica police officers found an unresponsive 32-year-old Darla Napora lying in the front room not breathing when they responded to a home in the 500 block of Reina Del Mar Avenue shortly after 12:15 p.m.

The victim’s husband had come home from work and found their 2-year-old pit bull hovering over his wife’s body.

Officers began performing CPR before Pacifica Fire Department and San Mateo County paramedics arrived and pronounced her dead at the scene.

After police arrived, Napora’s husband told them the dog was secured in the backyard of the residence. While medical personnel were tending to the victim, the dog freed itself and approached the officers and first responders. Officers shot the dog three times, killing it.

There was a second dog in the backyard, and it and the deceased dog were taken to the Peninsula Humane Society for examination.

An autopsy for the woman and a necropsy for the dog are scheduled for Friday.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-11-2011, 11:14 PM Reply   
Ok I just got to say. No one deserves to die. But IMO these people knew they might Own a dangerous dog. Why would you have a dangerous dog with a pregnant wife and baby on the way around you! Or better yet why would you own one in the first place? I mean I can understand if your some Pants on the ground Ghetto roach that has to have the crazy pit bull to go along with the Ghetto Image but why is a Young family having somthing like this?? Just stupid is all I can say and think.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-12-2011, 6:10 AM Reply   
Its because pit lovers, like all other pet owners, personify the animal and stop seeing it for what it is. When humans casually expose themselves to animals powerful enough to kill, its only a matter of time until one does.

Before the pitbull sympathy squad sees this, maybe I can cut them off at the pass:

"oh, they are not killing machines, they are a good breed with an extremely overwhelming rate of coincidence."

"Its not the dogs fault these owners didnt properly pin their killing machine."

"must have been an abused dog, pitbulls arent aggressive unless they are abused...awake....or breathing."
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-12-2011, 7:11 AM Reply   
I only have sympathy for the family and their loss. It is a tragedy and there isn't any other way to describe it.
What I don't get is what is with ignorant people that think they know everything there is to know about everything and can make classy generalizations about a subject bc it's the hot topic right now and not too hard to find some bs back up to help the argument. But hey eff me right I'm just some hood rat with my pants hanging low with a dog that I glorify above anything else and am too blind to see past the 40oz in my hand.
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-12-2011, 8:01 AM Reply   
Those Cocker Spaniels and Chihuahuas are pretty vicious, too, you know. They probably bite more than pits, although I'm not sure how often they kill or maim people.

I'm sure these people told everybody how sweet and what a great family pet their pit was. Maybe the other dog took it's squeaky and then the lady yelled at the pit or hit for killing the other dog. Poor folks.
Old    Ray M (wakeborder5)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-12-2011, 8:20 AM Reply   
Tragic story aside, I also don't get why people choose to have pitbulls. How many labs have you heard of killing anyone or inflicting any serious harm on anyone? I understand that they can be trained / brought up to be calm and civil, but most people own them as pets, not children that they tend to all day, every day. I bet a tiger could be trained to be a good pet, but does that make it a good idea?
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-12-2011, 8:56 AM Reply   
There are a lot of animals that people keep as pets that can hurt themselves or their families. Why? Maybe some people are oblivious to the fact that things can go wrong. More people are killed by horses every year than pitbulls, but do people demonize them for this? No. IMO people that associate pitbulls with gangbanging thugs are just ignorant. Yes, some of those idiots own them, but they do not represent the majority of pit owners. Either way, its a sad story.
Old    "G" (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-12-2011, 9:27 AM Reply   
Yea I did Stereo type in my post. Whoop's.! I know not all Pitbull owners are Hood rat's but out here in my neck of the wood's that's the most common type of pit bulll owner so that's the stereotype I went with.

Im sorry If I used common stereotypes to make my judgment. But IMO no other breed of dog seems to be connected with sutch a low class person. That's not saying if you own a Pit bull you are a low life and its a visious dog but THATS THE PERCEPTION! if you don't think so that's fine. Your living in denial and im not talking about the river in egypt.

My friend had a Pitbull it was the Nicest dog. It was a big old thick pit with a huge head it looked like a fighting dog ect. It was super nice and a great companion. Did I like to pet it and play with it Yes. Did I or could I completely Trust it, HELL NO!!!!!
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-12-2011, 10:15 AM Reply   
Pretty ironic that a pit defender would call others ignorant.

ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/Adjective
1. Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2. Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy".

Another good example would be "ignorant of the frequent news coverage of pit attacks". It's pretty ignorant to expose your family to a dangerous breed 24/7.

It's misleading to say "horses kill more people" in this context - horses are involved in accidents, but they (usually) don't attack people, and they don't live in the house with you. Tigers, chimps, cobras, etc are also not a good analogy because they are FAR less commonly kept as pets, and I doubt the weirdos that own them go around telling everyone that will listen what great family pets they are.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-12-2011, 10:46 AM Reply   
Yes, im quite aware of what the word means.

My point is, are pits dangerous? They can be. Just like a lot of things people expose themselves to everyday. No one knows what caused the dog to attack the woman, and no one will. I am defending the dog as a breed, not individually.

I have a 4 year old female pit and a 3 year old male German Shepherd and i can tell you without question the Shepherd would kill someone before the pit. Thats what he has been trained to do. My pit is an inside dog that acts more like a cat. She doesn't have an aggressive demeanor because she wasn't subjected to it.

As for all you super opinionated keyboard warriors without any real up close experiences with pitbulls. Go spend time around a decent one. Like Grant said "My friend had a Pitbull it was the Nicest dog. It was a big old thick pit with a huge head it looked like a fighting dog ect. It was super nice and a great companion. Did I like to pet it and play with it Yes. Did I or could I completely Trust it, HELL NO!!!!!"

Im guessing you didn't trust it because it looked aggressive.. That's where putting time in around these animals will change your perception of them.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-12-2011, 11:04 AM Reply   
Humans kill or injure other humans exponentially more than pit bulls.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-12-2011, 11:06 AM Reply   
What are the odds that the new widower here was a pit defender too? Wonder what he thinks of the breed now? Seems like everyone that owns one that hasn't killed someone yet fiercely defends the breed.
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-12-2011, 11:12 AM Reply   
To say that horses kill people in this context is wrong. Horses don't have the attacking capabilities that dogs do but what they do have is a natural instinct that sometimes turns out bad for the owner. Whether it gets spooked and kicks somebody in the head when they are behind it or somebody gets thrown from a horse and lands wrong either paralyzing them or worse killing them. You can train a horse all day long but that doesnt mean that there won't be an accident sooner or later. People put themselves in harms way with several different types of animals that have natural instincts to protect themselves. The same context, no, but accidents do happen. To say it's the animal and situation applies to all animals and breeds not just pitbulls.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-12-2011, 11:41 AM Reply   
I've never had a pit, but a friend has had two. Both have been friendly and playful dogs and never had any trouble. I will say his first would get pretty into it when playing rough in the yard, and obviously was a strong dog, but never bit or attacked anyone and was very obedient. That dog clearly knew when he was playing and knew when to stop when you didn't want to play. His second pit is just mellow. Not saying anything either way, just my limited experience with the breed.

Personally if I had a kid on the way and wanted a dog I'd get a lab. I've had them before and they're great family dogs especially around kids. If I already had a pit, or other stereotyped "violent" breed, I would have no problem keeping the dog.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-12-2011, 11:47 AM Reply   
My golden retriever is a cold blooded killer. If she sees a fly inside the house she wont hesitate to unleash fury on it. I don't trust her one bit when I'm laying on the ground and she's licking my face. She could snap and kill at any moment. Just not safe.
Old    Brett Burrows (Riteride)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-12-2011, 11:58 AM Reply   
Two of the best dogs ever... Pits are dangerous dont get me wrong, but so are many other breeds.. These two used go everywhere with me and were very well mannered, but if I didnt spend the time with them burning some of their energy they did get out of line... But if I did not take them into my home they would not even had a chance and been put down.... Very sad for the family.....
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Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-12-2011, 12:20 PM Reply   
I equate dogs to guns...

toy dogs: bb gun
labs/goldens: pellet gun
pitbull: hand gun
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-12-2011, 12:44 PM Reply   
Those are some good looking dogs Brett. These are my two. The rednose is a rescue and literally is more like a cat than anything. Both dogs are awesome around the many small children we have over (nieces and nephews) and have never had anything out of line happen.
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Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       08-12-2011, 1:15 PM Reply   
One looks like he wants you to throw a ball, the other looks like he wants to eat you.
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-12-2011, 1:42 PM Reply   
My rednose and lab were both rescues. They are both well behaved and the only problem that I have with them is the amount of gas that they have.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-12-2011, 1:42 PM Reply   


Hey, I can post pics too! At least this little girl lived and still has most of her face. Google has many far more grotesque examples if you're interested.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-12-2011, 1:46 PM Reply   
If you have some pictures of something pertaining to you i'd like to see them.. otherwise you are just a spokesperson on a topic with no creditable backing.

We have posted pictures of OUR dogs. If this was your little girl, i could fully understand your rage on this topic, but seeing as you found a sad pic of some girl that her injuries could have been caused by something totally different... i award you zero props.

Last edited by brett33; 08-12-2011 at 1:50 PM.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-12-2011, 1:47 PM Reply   
Anyone can post a killer in a cute pose. Doesnt make them safe or good pets.

Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-12-2011, 1:49 PM Reply   
And you are credible, with your sample size of one? LOL at not being allowed an opinion on this unless you've lost a family member, or own a known killer.

My daughter has been bitten in the face by dogs more than once. If it happened to be a pit any of those times she might not be here, and neither would the dog or its owner.

And that was from a pitbull, for the record: http://www.news.com.au/national/tane...-1225765843145

Last edited by trace; 08-12-2011 at 1:56 PM.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-12-2011, 1:56 PM Reply   
Yes, considering I own a pitbull and work with the breed on a daily basis, i would consider myself a creditable source to be speaking on this topic. What makes you one? Your opinion?
Old    Brett Burrows (Riteride)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-12-2011, 2:02 PM Reply   
I was holding a piece of cheese to get the pic... Dont just put the label on pits, people kill people, cars kill people, bathtubs enen kill peple.. But are you driving a car yes, do you socialize with people yes, do you shower i would hope so.. Very sad for the family, but get a grip...
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-12-2011, 2:13 PM Reply   
LOL, the old compare an animal to an inanimate object,

Do you pit homers just ignore the facts or do you really think its just coincidence?

Here in TX you can buy lion cubs for $350. People buy them as pets. They become homers too. We fail at trying to convince them its a bad idea as well.
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-12-2011, 2:20 PM Reply   
When looking at dog breeds and if I'd trust them, I think of having them around children. If you had a child that tripped and fell hard on your dogs paw, what would happen to that child? Plenty of dogs might bite. How bad would that wound likely be, though? I just don't want any dog and don't even like the breed of a dog that is likely to bite so hard that it breaks that child's arm or leg or rips it off or worse.

I also would look at stats and what % of bad bites, like those requiring a trip to emergency room, are done by which breeds and likely not get a breed on the top of that list when there are so many other great dog breeds out there. And yes, it's extremely important how a dog is raised. I'm sure there's a killer Great Dane out there somewhere.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       08-12-2011, 2:48 PM Reply   
Dangerous Dog Breed Statistics

Analyzing a sampling of press accounts from Canada and the USA during 1982-2007, researchers pinpointed the dog breeds that are most likely to cause death or serious injury. This research study concluded that, unlike any other breed of dog, Pitbulls attacked adults almost as often as they attacked children. The researchers found that Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and Wolf-Dog Hybrids combined to account for:
• 77% of attacks that caused bodily harm to the injured dog bite victims.
• 73% of attacks that harmed children.
• 83% of attacks that injured adults.
• 70% of attacks that resulted in death.
• 77% of attacks that maimed the dog attack victims.

Another study looked at data obtained from incidents where victims were mauled by dogs during 1982-2006 and found that Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Perro de Presa Canario, and their mixes caused 65% of the dog bite deaths during that time period in the United States.

Some sources claim that the six types of dogs commonly identified as the most dangerous or vicious dog breeds are Akitas, Chow-Chows, Doberman Pinschers, Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and Wolf-Dog Hybrids.

Another study looked at a selection of 88 dog attacks from 2006-2008 in the United States, with results ranging from recoverable injuries to death. Of those incidents, it was found that:
• Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and American Bulldogs were responsible for 77% of all deaths.
• Pit Bulls were responsible for 59% of all deaths.
• Pit Bulls killed more adults than children.
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-12-2011, 3:03 PM Reply   
We are all credible sources simply because we are members of a society where it is permissable to own dangerous animals. Ever heard the expression, "your freedom ends where mine begins"?
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-12-2011, 4:38 PM Reply   
My wife and dog were challenged by a pit while rollerblading. Lucky for us, we train our mini-aussie to ignore dogs and that the human is the pack leader. Our dog kept running and the pit followed them all the way home, then a few minutes later the pit actually pinned a neighbor in her garage with her dog. My wife ran over and grabbed a fire place poker that was in the garage and stood over the pit without moving. The Pit finally backed down and my wife yelled for the lady to get her and her dog inside while the dog was distracted. Then the dog started to go after my wife as she bolted for the door too. The lady got bit but oddly enough by her own dog as it tried to protect itself and she tried to break it up. Pits are extremely dog aggressive by nature, they also tend to get aggressive reactions from other dogs. That is most likely by their body language.

My wife also had (can't think of the breed) a spud's dog and it was fine for a few years and then one day it just turned on her and ripped her arm open. She was a vet tech for 12 years.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-12-2011, 7:11 PM Reply   
These are my killers. I'll take these sweet faces over a pit any day. We've all heard the stories about how good of dogs people's pits are, but every person that says this will always say, but they don't like dogs. I personally don't want to be out on a run with my dog and get attacked by someone's "pet".
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Old    Kyle Linsey (kyle_L)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-12-2011, 8:07 PM Reply   
I do not understand why anyonw would own a pit bull. Yes there are nice ones but there are just too many bad ones to justify ever owning one. What is the purpose of taking a risk like that? It is like people buy them to show that THEIR PIT BULL IS DIFFERENT. It's different until it murders your wife or child...or you
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-12-2011, 8:27 PM Reply   
Rough studies also show that pitbulls make up about 30-40% of the pet population. The actual amount of pitbulls in that number that aren't misrepresented as a mix breed or something else are pretty low. I'm not saying it doesn't happen because it obviously does but if you think that the breed as a whole acts the same as the what you see in the news then you are sadly mistaken. People need to worry about their neighbors neglecting their children more than being attacked by pitbulls. If you have a problem with them then fine you have the right to your own opinion but don't get pissed off when I defend something that's part of my life while you sit there with your nose in the air on a high chair thinking that you know have the slightest clue. If you believe everything you read then I feel sorry for you and your family. If you've had a bad experience with a pitbull then I feel sorry for you and more sorry for the dog that hasn't had the interaction with people while it was young that mine have had. I know most stereotypes hang around for good reason, because people exploit the stories that keep them alive. Are they prone to aggression? Yes. Are they for everyone that wants a dog? No. Do they have good qualities that set them apart from other breeds? Yes. Are there careless dog owners that shouldn't be allowed to own any animal? Yes. I rescued my pitbull no to prove a point to people, but to save her from a life that would have probably ended with her being a statistic that gives people more of a reason to hate the breed. I don't have anything to prove to anyone and I'm not gonna waste my time on people that don't look past the opinions of a few to come up with their own.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-12-2011, 8:55 PM Reply   
Just like any naturally agressive animal, they can be coorerced into a desired likeable behavior. However, they all have the ability to change their mind at any time at no fault of the owner. How many times you hear a pit owner say, "I dont know what happened, he was always so sweet." Or a chimp owner say, "he was never aggressive" right after he ripped someones face off. Even Sigfred and Roy never had an incident until they had one. Is it worth rolling the dice around your family/friends/neighbor? If one of your dogs turned on a child, how would you feel?
Old     (tro)      Join Date: May 2009       08-12-2011, 9:54 PM Reply   
0% chance i'd let my pregnant wife get anywhere near a pit bull. i definitely feel for that family's loss, but you can't say that a pit bull doing that is unexpected.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-13-2011, 12:01 AM Reply   
I can see both sides even though everyone in our area seems to think they can let their pit bull (and boxers) off leash. All, I have to say is if you think their is no difference, I challenge you to pick up your phone and tell your home owners insurance company that you own a Pit Bull and see what they say or how fast they cancel your insurance. Insurance companies are basically like Vegas casinos. They go by the numbers. Also, it is just not Pit Bulls that they look at but all the same, give them a call.
Old    Jeff Moore (jeff359)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-14-2011, 7:51 PM Reply   
Every owner of a pitbull that bites someone is shocked as the dog is always so nice and peacefull. Do I think the bread gets a bad name by white trash, ghetto, and pachuco owners, yes. But if you have the same breed of dog responsible for most of the dog attacks, you gotta look towards the breed as well.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-15-2011, 9:31 AM Reply   
^That's misinformation. Pit Bulls are not responsible for most of the dog attacks. Something I find interesting.

Dog bite statistics
An estimated 4.7 million dog bites occur in the U.S. each year
Nearly 800,000 dog bites require medical care
Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered
Approximately 25% of fatal dog attacks involved chained dogs
Approximately 71% of bites occur to the extremities (arms, legs, hands, feet)
Approximately two-thirds of bites occurred on or near the victim’s property, and most victims knew the dog
The insurance industry pays more than $1 billion in dog-bite claims each year
At least 25 different breeds of dogs have been involved in the 238 dog-bite-related fatalities in the U.S.
Approximately 24% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs off of their owners’ property
Approximately 58% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs on their owners’ property

So like Bob Barker says, get your dog spayed or neutered.
Old    Cliff (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-15-2011, 10:10 AM Reply   
when the wife and I were first married, we had a Rotti. Max. Max was a great dog. I worked alot of nights and the wife was home alone. I trained the dog to be very protective of her. He would check out the house and yard on command. He would then return to her and put his paw on her foot when he was satisfied that things were good. If something made him nervous, he would either give out one bark or sit in front of her and stare. He would even pace the imaginary property border that ran along the neighbors yard and mine.

I used to restore old muscle cars as a hobby. One day a neighbor boy wondered up to look at one of them. Things were fine when the kid was in the driveway. As soon as he stepped foot in the garage, Max was on him. Max backed off as soon as I told him to, but it was a scary situation. I know that I should have put him in a down/wait/it's ok position, but I didn't.

A year or so after that, we had our first kid.

It was very very difficult, but we decided that Max had to go. The decision was reached not just because Max was a Rotti, but more because of the way that I had raised him. I might could have introduced the kiddo into the fold without any trouble, but it just wasn't worth the risk.

A local dog training place took Max and was so impressed with him that they made him their mascot. He was on several commercials and landed many accounts for the company. He had a great life for several years after he left us.

We have since had 2 more Rottis. One was a temp adoption to help a friend and the other was a family pet. Mowgli. When we shopped for Mowgli, we were looking for a different disposition as compared to what we were looking for when shopped for Max.

Mowgli was a terrific family dog. He was very gentle and great with the kids. He was also a very fit 150 lbs, so he was a great gaurd companion even though he was gentle. I taught Mowgli how to pull a wagon and a sulky. He could be driven like a horse. great dog. It was a sad day for all when he passed on.

My obvious point is: It's all in temperment and how you raise them ......
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       08-15-2011, 11:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
^That's misinformation. Pit Bulls are not responsible for most of the dog attacks. Something I find interesting.

Dog bite statistics
An estimated 4.7 million dog bites occur in the U.S. each year
Nearly 800,000 dog bites require medical care
Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered
Approximately 25% of fatal dog attacks involved chained dogs
Approximately 71% of bites occur to the extremities (arms, legs, hands, feet)
Approximately two-thirds of bites occurred on or near the victim’s property, and most victims knew the dog
The insurance industry pays more than $1 billion in dog-bite claims each year
At least 25 different breeds of dogs have been involved in the 238 dog-bite-related fatalities in the U.S.
Approximately 24% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs off of their owners’ property
Approximately 58% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs on their owners’ property

So like Bob Barker says, get your dog spayed or neutered.
Is this in response to my post? I don't see anything in here that says they are not.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-15-2011, 11:15 AM Reply   
If PETA wants an animal gone/dead they're probably not that great of an animal (on average - I know some are the best pets in the world)
" BSL permits an entire breed to be designated as 'dangerous' such as in Denver, Colorado where Pit Bulls and their look-alikes are killed if not removed from the State..." Seriously, if that sort of ruling exists, they is most likely a problem with the dogs.

And since we're posting pics of killer animals, here is mine:

If she every turns - one solid kick and the fights over.

Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-15-2011, 11:38 AM Reply   
kstateskier: That's what I'm talking about. Awesome dogs.

My golden is for companionship, not protection. She's an awesome dog that would never harm anyone. Kids can crawl all over her without and type of concern. That's what I like in my dogs. She's also got a great bark and sounds intimidating if you come into my yard. That's all the protection she needs to give me. If she get's my attention I'll take care of the rest.

I've seen pits that were awesome pets. Kind and gentle, but that didn't mean I wasn't at least slightly nervous around them.
Old    Joe B (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-15-2011, 12:00 PM Reply   
I have a doberman, great dane, and Pit/lab puppy. If any of them showed no tolerance with any human, they'd be gone in a second. I truely believe it's how they are raised. I would never bring in an older dog that wasn't used to baby crying, ear pulling, poking from day one - that includes Chihuahuas that could maul a baby in a crib. I've had a bad experience with an incorrectly trained horse and haven't ridden since eventhough my wife has horses. For the record I'm not a fan of Pits, I like labs and large dogs that just lay there and hang out.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-15-2011, 2:01 PM Reply   
a good friend of mine is actually family with the girl that was killed. according to him, the dog was always very mellow and listened well and loved people. crazy how a dog can snap like that.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-15-2011, 2:04 PM Reply   
I just don't understand owning pitbulls with the family thing. Yes I know a couple of great ones that would probably never do anything, but if it did happened, I would never forgive myself for letting a loaded gun run around with my family. If a pitbull snaps, you have very little chance of stopping it. Only take a few seconds to kill a kid.

If you're going to have a family dog, why not chose one that has a better track record. Why risk it?
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-15-2011, 2:10 PM Reply   
Dogs for protection = people getting mauled.

Get a gun.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-15-2011, 4:03 PM Reply   
^Not trying to be a smart ass, but aren't way more people killed by accidental shootings as opposed to dog killings?

Paul, no I was responding to Jeff Moore who posted "same breed of dog responsible for most of the dog attacks".
Old    Blair Neher (BlairJ)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-16-2011, 10:07 AM Reply   
LoL at all the media fed lemmings in this thread.

I'll just leave this here for the uneducated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw5aThdcxsE
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-16-2011, 12:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Not trying to be a smart ass, but aren't way more people killed by accidental shootings as opposed to dog killings?
Probably, but no gun has ever decided to attack a child unprovoked. Also, gun owners do not disguise their lethal posession as a pet.

I like dogs. I like pits! I like lions too. Anyone who has ever wrestled a pit knows how much stronger they are than the average lab or GS. I just think its a risk to have an animal that possesses that kind of ability around your family regardless of breed, regardless of species. People get into their mind that every canine is "just a dog" as far as assessing risk.

Taking on that risk, because of the cool factor or a facination with an animal seems foolish. Its not just the pit guys, its the chimp guys, the lion guys, the 12' python guys...etc
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-16-2011, 1:48 PM Reply   
I agree with you that not every dog is just a dog and that people should own pits bc they think they are cool. But the people that buy pits for that reason are more than likely the same type of person that gives gun owners a bad name. Irresponsible people have that kind of affect on anything they touch. But in all my research I have yet to find someone with a viewpoint that everyone will listen to. People make their minds up on the facts that they find important enough and most leave it at that. Prosecute the dogs to the fullest extent and kill off the breed so people will have something else to be afraid of and attack out of fear and ignorance, but be warned that something might be the very thing that you will fight with all your heart to protect. The walk is always different in someone elses shoes.
Old    Brett Burrows (Riteride)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-16-2011, 1:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jperkinsttu View Post
i agree with you that not every dog is just a dog and that people should own pits bc they think they are cool. But the people that buy pits for that reason are more than likely the same type of person that gives gun owners a bad name. Irresponsible people have that kind of affect on anything they touch. But in all my research i have yet to find someone with a viewpoint that everyone will listen to. People make their minds up on the facts that they find important enough and most leave it at that. Prosecute the dogs to the fullest extent and kill off the breed so people will have something else to be afraid of and attack out of fear and ignorance, but be warned that something might be the very thing that you will fight with all your heart to protect. The walk is always different in someone elses shoes.
two thumbs up....
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       08-16-2011, 2:08 PM Reply   
well put Jarrod
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-16-2011, 3:26 PM Reply   
Certainly someone in your view has to see the trend in that breed objectively at some point even if you wont openly admit it. Its hard because we personify our pets and love them to the point we stop seeing the danger. To me, its like a guy who buys a make and model car that has a history of exploding in a wreck. However, he has owned this make before and it ran fine and he never had a wreck therefore no explosion problem, or maybe he did have a wreck and it didnt blow that time. We would look at a willingness to buy another one just because you took care of one in the past and it didnt blow up on you as foolish. When society witnesses a car showing risk, they are recalled, not because every car will fail, but because too many are failing. We dont have any hesitation at looking at that data objectively because we dont insist a flawed design "can" still work. However, with pets that we become emotionally attached to, we do have a hard time admitting there is risk. We wouldnt put our family in a make\model car that has known safety issues, even if our personal experience has been uneventful. We simply consider ourselves lucky. However, we seem to repeatedly allow our affection for a pet to cloud our objectivity and expose our families to the risk.

My wife wants a big dog. I told her I wouldnt allow it until I owned a big enough piece of land that the animal had room to move. I also said I would never own anything that my kids couldnt defend themselves against. My boy turns 3 next month, and I have another on the way. looking to buy land soon, but looks like I have plenty of time to tell them I never want to put them in the position to have to defend themselves.
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-16-2011, 3:50 PM Reply   
What is the common cause of the recalled car? Human error and I am a true believer that's the underlying factor for most of the problems you see in the news. I'm not saying all I'm saying 99%. The population and popularity of these dogs should warrant way more attacks then what are reported if they are truly as unruly as you suggest. Like I said they aren't for everyone and shouldn't be thought as so but then again not everyone that wants a dog should have one. People have a big influence over their animals and should take more responsibility when something happens. If their ignorance to the dogs behavior is the reason it attacked someone how are they supposed to react when it acted out of turn. Talk to people who actually are educated on animal behavior and are more than just a blogger or journalist looking to break a big story feeding people slight truths and letting the rest sit for open interpretation. If you don't like the dogs then fine no one is forcing you to buy one, but don't sit there and act like people are condemning their families to an unfortunate accident or worse death by taking a pit into their homes. People condemn their families when they don't take care of their responsibilities that they took on whether it be a dog, a car, a gun or whatever it is.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-16-2011, 3:54 PM Reply   
Would you say the same is true for lions? I ask because its a problem here, not being an ass.
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-16-2011, 5:02 PM Reply   
Are you trying to compare lions to dogs? Yes pitbulls were bred for the purpose of a bloodsport but not for their aggressiveness. They were built to be stout muscle and that's what people took advantage of then and still do today. There has got to be something said for rehabilitated dogs that have no aggressive nature towards anything and no reports of such instances. Lions don't have the centuries of domestication that dogs do. If we were in the beginning days of domesticating wolves and cross breeding such animals, then yes I would be wondering why we are trying to train such aggressive natured animals. Lions and dogs don't belong in the same argument.
If you've got lion problems in your area and people personifying lions then that is something way outside of my reach and I can't help with that argument.
Old    Blair Neher (BlairJ)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-17-2011, 6:59 AM Reply   
In this thread, people compare wildlife to domesticated animals. Keep using those brains people...or don't.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-17-2011, 7:03 AM Reply   
We have a problem with people buying lion cubs and raising them as house pets. They give the same aregument about it being all about how you raise them. They let their kids play with them, and say they arent aggressive or show no aggressive qualities. To be honest, we really dont have alot of mauling issues with these cats under the care of their owners. We have a problem when the cats mature and become too expensive to feed so the owners turn them loose in the forrest. Now they are hungry, strong, and not afraid of humans. My wife used to volunteer for the organization who traps and houses these cats after the owners cannot take care of them or abandons them. There were probably caught up with the Christian the lion story from the 70's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btuxO...e_gdata_player



My point is, if you went to someones house and they had a 150lb housebroken lion cub playing with their kids in the floor, would you let your child get in the mix? I wouldnt, not because lions are evil, but the risk is too high. You would probably agree with this logic because you are emotionally indifferent to lions. From the outside, most are emotionally indifferent to pitbulls, and apply the same logic. Now, if I owned a lion cub house pet that has yet to harm a human, and you told me lions were dangerous, would you be an uneducated douche because you dont have first hand lion attack experience, or lion experience at all? No, because it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know they are dangerous and have killed many humans. Wouldnt the "well not all lions are killers" aregument be kinda lame? The homers from both sides use the same areguments, and both sound rediculous to those emotionally indifferent to these animals. Yes, I know the animals arent on the same field ability-wise, but the logic is still the same.

One of my good friends growing up had the sweetest pit ever. He is to this date the largest I have ever personally met. Well over 100lbs. Never had an issue, but I think my parents were CRAZY for leaving me alone playing with that dog. Had he ever snapped, I would have been taken with overwhelming force.
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-17-2011, 8:26 AM Reply   
Yes I would consider that a big problem and don't really know why they would be legal to purchase in the first place. Stupid people are everywhere and they seem to multiply more than the rest of us.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-17-2011, 8:54 AM Reply   
Domestication is subjective, and becomes a moot point when animals attack humans. The truth is, inheirently dangerous animals CAN be loving and harmless, I just question if its a risk worth taking to find out if they are 100% considering the potential outcome of being wrong.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       08-17-2011, 9:36 AM Reply   
Instinct. You can't train for that.
Old    Brett Burrows (Riteride)      Join Date: Sep 2010       08-17-2011, 9:45 AM Reply   
What you really have to watch out for is an X wife... Now they are dangerous...
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-17-2011, 2:20 PM Reply   
I don't really see how domestication is a moot point. Without centuries of domestication none of the common household pets would be around like they are today. There would be more frequent attacks than there are now and so on. People will always fear the unknown and should do more to educate themselves but that's not always the case. People believe that their guns are secured and safe until they aren't so why put yourself in that position. Regardless of what it is if a person gets there hands on something and doesn't educate themselves on what to do with it it can be a dangerous situation.
People personify their pets bc their pets have personalities. If you get comfortable with something that you are around everyday then why would you suspect that particular item to be dangerous even though the so called norm says otherwise.(i.e.cars, guns, pets, people) People personify whatever it is that keeps their attention long enough. Each particular situation is different and should be taken into consideration that way.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       08-17-2011, 5:47 PM Reply   
I was saying domestication is subjective. How many generations of captivity = domesticated? People have owned lions for centuries too, yet they are not. People will always fear an animal that has the ability on potential to change its mind, and the power to do real damage when it does. Cars and guns do not have this ability. Other pets have this potential but do not possess the power. Pits and other powerhouse pets have both and therefore will always strike fear, and unfortunately the dogs themselves promote the stereotype.
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-17-2011, 9:24 PM Reply   
Here goes another one:

http://news.yahoo.com/police-girl-ki...025157956.html

Poor kid. I wonder if this was a 'sweet' pitbull or not?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-18-2011, 9:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
People will always fear an animal that has the ability on potential to change its mind, and the power to do real damage when it does. Cars and guns do not have this ability.
+1

Car/Gun you are against the stupidity of a person
Animal you are against nature and the stupididty of a person

I am a pretty calm/tame person... don't like conflict and try my best to avoid it.... but there has been times where someone is just asking for.
... I was in Vegas last year on my cellphone on the side-street between Ballys and Bills that heads to the stagedoor bar.... Minding my own business just talking to my boss when a guy comes up and grabs for me cell phone and tries to take off... I shoved him off and just looked confused (mind you I've never been in a fight so I was certain I was getting my ass kicked).... He takes another shot for the phone, misses and then swings at me.... game on. He misses and is straight armed, I grabbed his wrist and hit him HARD in the elbow (being it the wrong way).... guy dropped like a sack of bricks.... I instantly feel remorse and ask him if he wants me to call 911.... he lunges AGAIN for me/my back pocket (wallet maybe).... well again I just sort react and land a solid kick to his ribs... fights over, I walk away.

.... moral of the story is even the most mild tempered humans can snap.... why not the most mild tempered animal if the situation is right.
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       08-18-2011, 10:34 AM Reply   
Im not concerned with Pit Bulls. Im concerned about the dogs that live after you stab them in the head! Makes pits look like mice! LOL.

Robber stabs dog in the head
Attached Images
 
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-18-2011, 10:40 AM Reply   
I don't disagree with that at all and the circumstance was apparent that you needed to act that way. And yes not all dog attacks are provoked by humans and I also believe it's circumstantial in almost all cases. But your story shows two characteristics in human nature. The mild manner that snapped and the one that acted in a certain way due to lack of not knowing anything better by trying to attack. Would you say the person that attacked you was brought up in a good situation that taught him the the difference in right and wrong or was he more than likely neglected to some extent and left to figure things out for himself? A dog reflects the environment it is raised around the same way. If it is not shown the proper way to act in all situations then it is more than likely left to figure it out for itself. If it starts growling and sees that whatever it is leaves it alone then that dog will now think that it can get what it wants by growling and if left to go further down that road then the inevitable attack occurs. There are and will be cases of seemingly good mannered dogs that will act out and attack and that fact seems to be what the media plays on quite a bit. I don't doubt that it happens but I do doubt that when it does the lack of sufficient training on the part of the owners was to blame.
I don't want everyone to own or like a pitbull bc then we are left in the situation we are now where everyone thinks they can get away with teaching them a few commands and getting them used to their family will be all the dog needs to be what people would call a good dog. They see the amount of affection that the dogs have towards them and downplay any aggressive notions that the dog might showcase outside the home towards people and other animals. Training a dog is a job that never stops. I believe everyone should be held more accountable for their decisions no matter what the case may be. People that aren't perpetuate the stereotype of a breed that was bred for power and affection not human aggression.
I have no evidence only a theory as to why you see so many common occurrences of pitbull attacks. One being the popularity of the breed. Out of all the breeds that top the lists of attacks the pitbull in general is the smallest of the breed giving the everyday puppy buyer the sense that they will be able to control the dog with little to no training which is a big problem. I don't know for sure but I doubt there as many Rotts or Germans as there are Pitts which leads me to believe that the common occurrence can be based on a numbers game in population. Does that justify anything? No but would more or less make it easier to understand the amount of attacks that are shown in the media. I still hold true to my beliefs of why these dogs attack the way they do and am constantly trying to find definitive unbiased research which is extremely rare. Most organizations are spearheaded by extremists on both sides of the view and it's hard to find common middle ground. Can a pitbull be dangerous? Obviously yes. Should everyone take on the responsibility of one? No. I can understand why someone would not want this type of dog in their house but what I don't understand is why so many have a problem with the people that do albeit that that statement comes loaded with the type of people that actually want these dogs. I actually take PETA's stance in that dogs shouldn't be purchased from pet stores or breeders due to the fact that so many need adoption as it is.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-18-2011, 10:51 AM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXpdmKELE1k

I think this music video is appropriate to the discussion... just stick with it, hahaha.


All dogs inherently have an instinct for a pack mentality and to do what it takes to survive, if they feel the need to defend themselves or do what it takes to live, they will do what it takes to survive, whether it's run away or attack, no matter how domesticated it is. I was petting my friend's shih tzu and he took a chunk out of my nose because he wound up feeling threatened because he couldn't see well. A shih tzu tried to attack me. Domesticated or not, dogs will defend themselves, and in the case of a pit, they are very very capable of killing when they do so.



EDIT:

Jarrod, adoption is a noble cause, but as we learned with my sister's german shepherd hound mix (which was only a year old when she adopted it), if not properly socialized early they are prone to being difficult to deal with. The dog is borderline psychotic around me. He'll be playful and wanting me to pet him, next thing you know, he's trying to bite my hand (he's succeeded twice). Other than the freak shih tzu attack, i've never had a single dog try to bite me like that, but he does it all the time. Heck, the other night he was fine, we had just played a little ball and I was sitting on the floor for about 20 minutes. I stood up to go get another piece of pizza and he went straight into attack mode, barking loudly and growling while his tail stuck straight out and wagged in circles. Because I stood up. Dogs are not the most predictable of creatures...

Last edited by wakeboardern1; 08-18-2011 at 10:58 AM.
Old    Brian Wynn (quik876)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-18-2011, 11:13 AM Reply   
The question I want answered out of all of this is: What LED to the attack in the first place, which seems to be the Key issue here that's not being discussed by the media or the owner of the dog(s). Pitbulls are dangerous, but so are many other breeds/types of dogs
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-18-2011, 12:11 PM Reply   
I'm not trying to say every adoption is going to work bc you are right it happens to be very hard to understand what the dog has learned up until the point of the next adoption. And while I do see where you are coming from with your side of the story about your sisters dog I see happening with every person that comes up to my dog and doesn't follow my instructions on how to treat my dog. Dogs test everything every little way that they can to make sure of what and what not to do. If you have a particular training method and some random stranger wants to command your dog and goes about it the wrong way it will send mixed signals to the dog. I know that they have inherent pack instincts and other traits that can be traced back through bloodlines. But the ability to train is there and is affective if done correctly. I'm not saying I'm a perfect example but I know enough to know that I have a lot more learning to do.
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-18-2011, 12:15 PM Reply   
Often what provokes the attack isn't represented in the media and often times there might not be one at all. In such cases that is where the behavior of the particular dog in question needs to be thoroughly examined through it's upbringing buy since that is almost impossible to do you are left with the stories of the dog that got out and attacked people. Maybe out of fear, maybe out of aggression or maybe something else. In either case the media will portray it the way the need to to sale newspapers by illustrating the facts that people want to hear and dismissing others. Not saying that is every case but they often do it with everything else they report so why would a dog attack story be any different.
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-18-2011, 12:30 PM Reply   
With all this discussion, I still don't get why someone would get a pit over all the other great breeds out there. Whether a dog is provoked even a little or not, why get a breed that is known for seriously maiming or killing when it does go after somebody? How many stories are there out there of labs killing small children or elderly people, for example?

When I walk my dogs or have them out front, I think it's nice that some folks actually want to say high and pet the dogs. I sometimes leave them off the leash in the front yard area, knowing they're fine. Some people don't like it, and I'll immediately call them back to the garage or yard if I seem someone is uncomfortable or walking by with a dog on the leash. With a pit, too many more people are just going to be scared of the dogs. Why would I want that unless I lived in the ghetto and really needed that extra protection/intimidation?
Old    David Langston (rdlangston13)      Join Date: Feb 2011       08-18-2011, 6:37 PM Reply   
i had a friend who had a chihuahua and the neighbors pit pull got into the back yard bit the poor little guy in half. literally in half. this is also after it killed two of the FFA lambs.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       08-19-2011, 12:17 PM Reply   
... A guy down the street from me has two pitbills - great dogs - his home owners insurance went up because of them... there are like 5 dog breeds that will increase your insurnace.
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       08-19-2011, 1:14 PM Reply   
I say we turn this thead into a post your dog picture thread. Everyone out there knows Pitbulls and other breeds can be dangerous. As terrible as this is for the family it's not the first time a Pit has killed someone and won't be the last. I don't necessarily think that Pits should be banned altogether. It's take the right type of person and environment to own one safely and that's what is most important.

We have two Great Danes. They can be very protective (especially our male) and are obviously powerful and can hurt humans. That said I don't hesitate to have kids around them at all.




Last edited by aarond0083; 08-19-2011 at 1:23 PM.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-19-2011, 1:32 PM Reply   
Here is our latest addition that is due to arrive next week. She sure looks like a killer!
Attached Images
 
Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       08-19-2011, 6:55 PM Reply   
WTF does it matter what led to the fatal attack? I don't care if she kicked the dog in the head after taking its food away. We are talking a human life vs. a pet. Seriously... Anyone making statements like that obviously doesn't have a (human) family.
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       08-19-2011, 11:37 PM Reply   
Evan - thanks! We love them.

Aaron, great looking Great Danes. We were at a breeder a few months ago and my fiance fell in love with a grey/white female. We would have loved to get her but didn't want to deal with 3 large dogs. I'm also very scared of the attachment on a dog with a short life span. They seem to be fantastic dogs.

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