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Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-02-2012, 2:49 PM Reply   
Diaz a better fighter than GSP!? LOL!@!!!(*^@()!*^!@()*@^!

Jason is right. GSP has done what he needed to do, to win.. nothing more. I do believe, this fight is personal for him and according to Dana White, the first time GSP has EVER, since his arrival in 2004, asked for a fight.

I would really like to see Diaz vs. GSP... but I have a sneaky feeling that Diaz is not going to get past Condit.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-02-2012, 2:51 PM Reply   
Oh, and for those that were watching fights on firstrowtv.... the site was shut down today. (I, of course, was not one of those people watching fights illegally on the internet)
...
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-02-2012, 3:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
I am not sure that Norcal was talking about Diaz and Condit with condit being afraid of Diaz's guard? There is no way in hell GSP is worried about Diaz's guard.

I love me some Diaz brothers (inside the cage) like the next guy, but no matter what either guy is a long way away from a healthy GSP.

Speaking of that - After the Sonnen (ufc pays refs cough cough) very lack luster win over bisbing, is there any chance in hell this will be an interesting fight with Anderson. I think this time Anderson will smash him. Chael has gotten under his skin and now it's personal.

Same goes with GSP and Diaz. No matter who wins, when GSp is healthy - it's over for spot #2.

Than what about Rashad and Phil. I can't even envision either guy in their with JBJ. I know Rashad has the best chance, but really? He just looked slow and weak compared to Jones. Pretty sad state in these divisions with the 2-3 guys performing the way they did.

There is no way that Diaz does not win this fight. Not cause he is the better fighter, but because Everybody including Dana want GSP/Diaz. Nobody is going to care about GSP/Condit at this point. I am not saying the thing is rigged, but after watching last week, all it takes in one judge going the wrong way, to change the line to Diaz's side. When was the last time we saw a true upset in the top 5-7 guys? I am sure it has happened, but does not come to mind. The hierarchy is set, and it will play out.

JEff- That is sick you trained a little with Bj. I hear him and his brother are something to watch on the ground (like before Bj learned to use his hands).

it has been a long time since I saw a night of fihts where the betting lines are in line and realistic (as opposed to a JBJ -950 or GSP -1200). So based on Vegas this should be a bunch of close fights.

Nick Diaz is slightly favored in the books right now -200/+170
Werdum -150/+130
Koscheck -230/+190
Bararo - 230/+190
All I could think of watching Bisping and Sonnen was "so this is Sonnen off the PED's, eh?"


JBJ will absolutely demolish Shad.. Shad showed nothing against Davis.. Nothing.. His top control was better than it had been in the past but Davis has never fought off his back.. Bones iwll ruin him.

I think Rashad will drop down to 185.

I've trained with a LOT of top names in MMA and BJJ.. I would say that BJ is above average of the "good" black belts I've trained with - he is probably one of the more natural/gifted people I've shared a mat with.. Today, there are definitely more advanced grapplers. BJ won the Mundials at black belt - but I don't think he could come even close to repeating today. The game has changed from a sport jiu jitsu perpsective. Hybrid guard games, leg attacks and PED's are now the name of the game in competitive BJJ.. He's phenomenal - but I've "felt" better. That's something to be said.
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-02-2012, 3:15 PM Reply   
I wasn't trying to insinuate that Diaz is better than GSP, just that he has the killer instinct that I find lacking in GSP. I trust Jason's POV and hope to see a fierce GSP who is trying to KO or submit fighters. I hope he comes back on form and gives us a show.

With as much as the Diaz brothers jaw at least you can respect the form these guys show up in to fight.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-02-2012, 3:19 PM Reply   
GSP will destroy Diaz - even if he's not 100% after the ACL.. No question about it.. He uses his range VERY well on the feet and he will have easy take downs, It will be like childs play putting Diaz on his back.. And he's not stupid - he's an advanced black belt. He's not going to put himself into a triangle. Diaz has great BJJ from his back - but he has had trouble in the past with guys with strong top game and active GNP..

See: Diego Sanchez

GSP will do him ugly...

I hope Condit wins so we don't have to worry about it.


As for GSP "fighting not to lose".. I agree.. But there is a reason for it.. GSP is making around $5m per fight. By far the highest paid fighter in the UFC right now.. There is significant financial incentive for him to be calculated and "fight not to lose".. He's still putting the stamp on fools - even if he isn't finishing them.

The guy has beat the whose who of top 10 welterweights over the past 5 years. Cant fault him for that. All it takes is ONE loss and that $5m per fight drops DRAMSATICALLY.. It's one thing to go from making $400k a fight to $250k a fight if you lose. But GSP would drop from $5m a fight to about $1m a fight. That's huge.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-02-2012, 3:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalrider View Post
I wasn't trying to insinuate that Diaz is better than GSP, just that he has the killer instinct that I find lacking in GSP. I trust Jason's POV and hope to see a fierce GSP who is trying to KO or submit fighters. I hope he comes back on form and gives us a show.

With as much as the Diaz brothers jaw at least you can respect the form these guys show up in to fight.
Agree 100%.

Diaz is a fighter

GSP is an athlete.


GSP is just a much better athlete than Diaz is fighter. I'll pay to watch Diaz fight - but GSP i'll only "pay" to see if he's fighting someone I like or the undercard interests me.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-02-2012, 3:42 PM Reply   
GSP has 1 finish since 2008, I mean Fitch was stopped, Dan Hardy was KO'd. GSP is fighting good fighters but if your pound for pound one of the top 3 then you should finish guys like that. And the excuse about $$$, bull...Silva manages, JBJ finishes. How is it that the top 3 pfp guys and GSP is the only one that doesn't finish...maybe because he is over rated! DIaz and Condit both better fighters then GSP
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-02-2012, 3:53 PM Reply   
And Diego Sanchez fight was in 2005 I think he has progressed a little since then
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 8:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
GSP has 1 finish since 2008, I mean Fitch was stopped, Dan Hardy was KO'd. GSP is fighting good fighters but if your pound for pound one of the top 3 then you should finish guys like that. And the excuse about $$$, bull...Silva manages, JBJ finishes. How is it that the top 3 pfp guys and GSP is the only one that doesn't finish...maybe because he is over rated! DIaz and Condit both better fighters then GSP
He wins. There isn't a note by his name saying "He hasn't finished".. He wins..

And Bones and Silva dont' make anywhere near GSP money.. Silva never will, Jones will have to wait another year to get the "big" spotlight.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 8:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
And Diego Sanchez fight was in 2005 I think he has progressed a little since then
I've seen NOTHING that indicates that Nick Diaz wrestling has gotten better.

But I have seen every indication that GSP's wrestling has gotten better. Your call to make. We'll see if Diaz gets past Carlos and if he does - he better prepare to fight off his back.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 9:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
He wins. There isn't a note by his name saying "He hasn't finished".. He wins..

And Bones and Silva dont' make anywhere near GSP money.. Silva never will, Jones will have to wait another year to get the "big" spotlight.
Correct he wins which is a different argument then is he a pound for pound one of the best fighters. Of course he is a good fighter you can tell by looking at his record, he knows how to score pts in a fights, he knows that takedowns are weighed heavily by judges, and he knows if he stays on top then he will win. If people don't like that style then they just don't watch him.

But to say he is pound for pound up there w/JBJ or Silva is crazy! To say he is as good as those guys but doesn't finish cause he doesn't want to risk losing well, IMO that risk is part of what makes you pfp one of the great fighters. GSP doesn't finish because he knows that he has no chin and no power so he does what he has to. I don't think Diaz or Condit are elite fighters yet either, but they are better then GSP.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 9:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
I've seen NOTHING that indicates that Nick Diaz wrestling has gotten better.

But I have seen every indication that GSP's wrestling has gotten better. Your call to make. We'll see if Diaz gets past Carlos and if he does - he better prepare to fight off his back.
Except it hasn't happened again since 2005. You don't think other fighters have tried that tactic also, no one since 2005 has tried to beat Diaz in the same manner again, he has just realized how to counter it. Your wrestling doesn't need to get better to counter that, takedown D can get better, as well as other ways.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 10:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
Correct he wins which is a different argument then is he a pound for pound one of the best fighters. Of course he is a good fighter you can tell by looking at his record, he knows how to score pts in a fights, he knows that takedowns are weighed heavily by judges, and he knows if he stays on top then he will win. If people don't like that style then they just don't watch him.

But to say he is pound for pound up there w/JBJ or Silva is crazy! To say he is as good as those guys but doesn't finish cause he doesn't want to risk losing well, IMO that risk is part of what makes you pfp one of the great fighters. GSP doesn't finish because he knows that he has no chin and no power so he does what he has to. I don't think Diaz or Condit are elite fighters yet either, but they are better then GSP.
Ask Koschek if he would have rather been submitted in the first round or had his face broken for 25 minutes.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
Except it hasn't happened again since 2005. You don't think other fighters have tried that tactic also, no one since 2005 has tried to beat Diaz in the same manner again, he has just realized how to counter it. Your wrestling doesn't need to get better to counter that, takedown D can get better, as well as other ways.

Because Diaz hasn't fought ANYONE with decent wrestling since he left the UFC the first time. No one. He hasn't fought anyone with anything even rREMOTELY close to good wrestling.. Much less the best wrestling for MMA in the world like GSP..

Apples and oranges.. He was fed a **** load of cans and washed up strikers in Strikeforce.. Scott Smith, Paul Daley, Cyborg Evangelista, KJ Noons, Slamcock, Marius Zaromskis, etc

Not anyone with even B level wrestling. Much less A+++ wrestling.. Did you see how atrocious his offensive wresling was when he gassed out in Strikeforce? It was horrendous..

GSP will beat him everywhere the fight goes.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 10:40 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Ask Koschek if he would have rather been submitted in the first round or had his face broken for 25 minutes.
Yea then there was the impressive 5rd spar match against Shields. not real representative of a "top pound for pound fighter"
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2012, 10:42 AM Reply   
This thread has turned HILARIOUS. It's fine to say GSP isn't a pound for pound great because he doesn't finish.. if that's what you really believe. However.. to say he isn't an elite level fighter is the most ridiculous thing I've ever f'ing heard.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 10:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
Because Diaz hasn't fought ANYONE with decent wrestling since he left the UFC the first time. No one. He hasn't fought anyone with anything even rREMOTELY close to good wrestling.. Much less the best wrestling for MMA in the world like GSP..

Apples and oranges.. He was fed a **** load of cans and washed up strikers in Strikeforce.. Scott Smith, Paul Daley, Cyborg Evangelista, KJ Noons, Slamcock, Marius Zaromskis, etc

Not anyone with even B level wrestling. Much less A+++ wrestling.. Did you see how atrocious his offensive wresling was when he gassed out in Strikeforce? It was horrendous..

GSP will beat him everywhere the fight goes.
Agreed, but those fights w/ Diego, Riggs, Sherk those are the only chance GSP has, can he sit there on top and win a desicion.

Gaurantee 100% GSP does NOT finish Diaz...actually he won't finish Condit either. All these people on GSP's jock, but I no one willing to predict a finish by GSP...that says everything you need about how good GSP is.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 10:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzyb View Post
This thread has turned HILARIOUS. It's fine to say GSP isn't a pound for pound great because he doesn't finish.. if that's what you really believe. However.. to say he isn't an elite level fighter is the most ridiculous thing I've ever f'ing heard.
Guess its a matter of opinion but I classify Elite and Pound for Pound as one in the same. IMO if your an elite fighter then your on that pound for pound list...and GSP is not! But neither is Diaz
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 11:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
Agreed, but those fights w/ Diego, Riggs, Sherk those are the only chance GSP has, can he sit there on top and win a desicion.

Gaurantee 100% GSP does NOT finish Diaz...actually he won't finish Condit either. All these people on GSP's jock, but I no one willing to predict a finish by GSP...that says everything you need about how good GSP is.
lol @ all of these guarentees... and lol @ judging how good a guy is based on if he finishes..
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 11:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
Guess its a matter of opinion but I classify Elite and Pound for Pound as one in the same. IMO if your an elite fighter then your on that pound for pound list...and GSP is not! But neither is Diaz
I'm surprised Diaz can make weight with you hanging from his nuts.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 11:29 AM Reply   
Haaa...that was good. I like Diaz but I don't think he is any type of elite fighter, I'm just saying GSP is not....at least not worth all the ball washing he gets. I wouldn't be suprised at all if Condit ends up being the best out of all of them his game is strong.

I just think its a major disrespect to guys who are putting it on the line every fight because they want to be the best in the game and then you have GSP who just wants to play it safe every fight. And then eeryone comes along and groups them all in the same category...they are not even in the same league!
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2012, 11:29 AM Reply   
This is turning into sherdog.com forums.. I love it.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 11:31 AM Reply   
JBJ, Silva, Aldo in a different class right now then everyone else.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 12:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzyb View Post
This is turning into sherdog.com forums.. I love it.
Dont swear on WakeWorld.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 12:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
JBJ, Silva, Aldo in a different class right now then everyone else.
Yeah, keep "ball washing" Anderson..

You know.. Those awesome fights he's had, right? You forget about the Damian Maia fight? How about that Thales Leites barn burner. He's had me at the edge of my seat.. He's been fighting top competition for years! James Irvin is P4P top 5 on everyones list.

GSP has been fighting top 5 to top 10 guys and beating them EVERY time..

Anderson is a product of fighting in the weakest, shallowest division in the UFC..

Aldo is looking spectacular fighting against guys who have been fighting for less time than this thread has been alive..

JBJ and GSP are on another level. Consistently beating the top guys.. I say this all as the #1 BJ Penn nut-rider.. I *hate* GSP - but he's beat the who's who of 170 time and time again..

Fitch
Kos x2
Penn
Alves
Shields (he was on a 19 fight win streak - stop hating)
Hughes
etc etc etc.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 1:23 PM Reply   
Haha, now I know you must be related to GSP or something, Silva not as good??? Second rate competition: He has faught everyone...Belfort, Franklin, Hendo (in his prime), Okami, He's faught Horn and Newton (when they were in their prime). Thats every bit as good as guys like Shields, Alves, Kos, and Fitch (who just got destroyed).

Just looked it up GSP has 9 decisions in 19 fights in his UFC career, Silva 14fights 2 decisions. Yep not as good as GSP. How can people not see that every good fighter that GSP fights goes to a decision, he doesn't even finish guys like Parisyan and Mayham...what they hell.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-03-2012, 2:07 PM Reply   
I am a long way from a GSP lover, but bottom line he finishes fights. He figures out what your weakness is and beasts them at their own game. Winning is Winning. Unlike other sports where you can say wins but does not cover a spread (dallas cowboys), winning is winning in MMA. He might not be exciting, but his hand is raised more than anybody but Anderson against the best in the world. He was made in the UFC, not in other division. Unlike Shields and some others, he has never had to face "weaker" competition. He also had to fight the best and did so convincingly. He has not lost a round in what like 30-40 rounds? he may not be exciting, but has to be one of the hardest working TRUE athletes on the planet. JBJ was graced with length, speed and power. GSP works to gain his strengths. Diaz for that matter too. BJ, JBJ, Anderson, Aldo and maybe even Edger are freak athletes that rely on their born gifts and build form there. Most others have to work at it. GSP just works harder than most. There have been few athletes in history that possess the gift and still work harder than the next guy - Maybe Jerry Rice, Jordan, Tiger (young), Ali, Peyton Manning, and I am sure there are a few more that are escaping my Friday afternoon brain. GSP is the next generation MMA - Superior athlete, incredible dedication, and hardest worker. Long term - He will go down as the winningest MMA fighter short of JBJ probably. No where in the hall of fame will it say - GSP - Most decision in MMA history or Asterisk with X by decisions.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 2:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
Haha, now I know you must be related to GSP or something, Silva not as good??? Second rate competition: He has faught everyone...Belfort, Franklin, Hendo (in his prime), Okami, He's faught Horn and Newton (when they were in their prime). Thats every bit as good as guys like Shields, Alves, Kos, and Fitch (who just got destroyed).

Just looked it up GSP has 9 decisions in 19 fights in his UFC career, Silva 14fights 2 decisions. Yep not as good as GSP. How can people not see that every good fighter that GSP fights goes to a decision, he doesn't even finish guys like Parisyan and Mayham...what they hell.
I hate GSP.

Silva has the best record in the worst division. Okami is trash. Belfort is trash. Franklin is the same as Silva - he's a product of a ****ty division. LOL @ talking about fightin Horn and Newton like it's relevant. How about Ryo Chonan? You want to bring that up?

GSP has fought MUCH tougher competition.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 2:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
I hate GSP.

Silva has the best record in the worst division. Okami is trash. Belfort is trash. Franklin is the same as Silva - he's a product of a ****ty division. LOL @ talking about fightin Horn and Newton like it's relevant. How about Ryo Chonan? You want to bring that up?

GSP has fought MUCH tougher competition.
Yep how have Fitch and Hardy done in that last fights how do they qualify. GSP made a career on wins agains Penn and Hughes no one else on that list is eve worth mentioniing. What about Henderson I suppose he sucks also.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-03-2012, 2:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinger View Post
Yep how have Fitch and Hardy done in that last fights how do they qualify. GSP made a career on wins agains Penn and Hughes no one else on that list is eve worth mentioniing. What about Henderson I suppose he sucks also.
Are we ignoring Thales Leites and Damain Maia? You must still be in shock from how awesome those fights were.. Anderson looked fantastic.

Silva vs. Sonnen... How do you explain that gem?
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 4:04 PM Reply   
No I acknowledged it, they were his 2 decisions compared to GSP's 9. Didn't Silva win...and finish Sonnen? Its not like these guys GSP is facing can't be stopped. Don't worry GSP did win award this year:

http://www.mmamania.com/2011/12/23/2...-honor-ufc-mma
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-03-2012, 4:10 PM Reply   
Jason, as always... your posts are excellent. 100% on everything you said.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-03-2012, 4:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzyb View Post
Jason, as always... your posts are excellent. 100% on everything you said.
Except the part about GSP not losing a round in 30 -40, actually 2 of the 3 judges on the Shields card had it 47-48, which mean they had him losing 2 rounds.

Do you guys even watch the fights
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-03-2012, 5:02 PM Reply   
Yeah Erik, been years since I missed a UFC/Strikeforce/Dream and all the others. I follow most of the fighters and have for years. My betting record in MMA is well over and in fact was a strong 82% for over one year solid. Does not mean I am never wrong on anything crazy like that. I always admit the guys that I really like and yet still often pick against them. So I never let my biaz get in the way of my money!
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       02-03-2012, 5:10 PM Reply   
Ok I've been reading this thread and sitting here shaking my head. I have an analogy, anyone old enough to follow the Chicago Bulls in the 90's new that the Bulls were the best team hands down. Whenever they rolled into town you pretty much new you were losing. Now I recall games that were really close but 9 times out of 10 they pulled it out. The Bulls were simply unstopable. But here is the thing about GSP

Although GSP doesn't finish many fights, he doesn't just squeek by, he makes great wrestlers look bad wreslting, he makes good stand up guys look bad standing up, he fights top notch BJJ guys and never gets submitted. GSP is a freak of nature. He isn't just the best 170lb fighter in the world, he blows everyone else out of the water. He is the Michael Jordan of the 170 division.

So big deal he isnt a knock out puncher, some people arent. That isnt his game. But I will tell you this, I would never ever bet against GSP because I will tell you this, you will lose your money my friend. Stand up, wrestling BJJ athleticism damnd GSP is the total package. Not one person has really given him a problem. On another note, he is probably the smartest and most tactical fighter in the sport. The guy will be a legend regardless what the haters ay.

Peace out!
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-03-2012, 6:26 PM Reply   
Yhea Poser - I have said almost those same words time and time again. I have wrote several columns on MMA for other websites and people always give me crap about GSP, but I say the same as you. He is gifted, Plus works hard, plus is super smart. JBJ is on the same path, but straight vicious. We'll see whenever he loses if he doesn't change a little. Urajh Faber certainly did. He was a straight killer until he lost to Mike Brown the first time. He is still amazing, but not the same fighter. he looked timid against Cruz.

Oh well, does not much matter who wins tomorrow because GSP will continue his dominance.

Here's tipping a glass to you all and we'll see you on Monday.

Buffalow.... Out!
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-04-2012, 11:00 PM Reply   
Nate-Punk got outclassed and shut down.
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-04-2012, 11:58 PM Reply   
Condit dictated that fight. He circled out, great head movement, nice combos, kept distance with kicks on many levels... It was an impressive showing. I don't think either fighter demonstrated anything worthy of GSP though.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-06-2012, 7:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalrider View Post
Condit dictated that fight. He circled out, great head movement, nice combos, kept distance with kicks on many levels... It was an impressive showing. I don't think either fighter demonstrated anything worthy of GSP though.
x2 to all. Condit had a great gameplan, outstruck and won handily.

He's got nothing for Ground St. Pound though.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-06-2012, 8:01 AM Reply   
Anyone think they will get Condit a fight before GSP? GSP isn't ready til November - that's along ways off. I see Condit fighting someone. I sure hope it's not Kos - cause I think Kos could wrestle-**** him and win and then we're staring down the barrel of GSP / Kos III.

Kos left AKA after some beef - maybe they will make Fitch Kos for the kicks of it and put in someone else against Condit. No clue who that might be. The only real "up and comer" that GSP hasn't already beat is Rory McDonald and that is GSP's protege.. I dont' want to see Alves or someone like that in there.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-06-2012, 8:11 AM Reply   
Nevermind.

Dana just said he's going to try to put together Condit vs. Diaz II before GSP returns. There is the answer.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-06-2012, 9:05 AM Reply   
Yhea I see Dana having to make that re-match. Everybody wants GSP vs Diaz including him and GSP and so they are going to make it happen. Not sure much different will happen. Although Condit was not the aggressor or had the control of the octagon, he was the smarter and more active fighter. Either way, neither of those guys are ready for GSP. Let's say they don't do the rematch, who does Diaz fight night - Kos? Fitch? Both guys will wrestle the hell out of him. I know all about his back game, but those aren't average wrestlers. I am not sure if he would even return to fight those wrestlers. I know he is all about money and he will get paid well, but Condit gave everybody another template to beat him. Stick and Move. As usual Greg Jackson's game plan was superior and his fighters stick to a winning game plan. makes me wonder why Melvin Guillard left.

Nelson-Werdum - Pretty much as I said, but holy crap Nelson is a tough SOB. We knew he was tough after the warts he has been in, but wow those Knees were crazy. Puts Werdum like top 4, right? Figure Jr,Cain/Ovreem, Werdum, than probably Mir?

Jorgen/Baro- What we expected, excellent performance by Barao. Good back and fourth action.

Koscheck wins, but not convincingly. Certainly looked lackluster. Just does not look like he had the fire as in the past.

Overall glad I watched it somewhere and did not have to pay for it. Plenty more cards coming up.
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-06-2012, 9:33 AM Reply   
Seems like this GSP discussion will never end. 50% of the fans of the sport feel like if you don't finish a guy you aren't a real fighter and the other 50% are right - wins = $$$.

I have no idea why they would do a Diaz/Condit II - not a super exciting fight to watch but I felt Condit really executed the right game plan throughout the entire 5 rounds. I loved watching Diaz trying to get in his head and Condit just kept executing.

Is it just me or have many of the top contenders looked horrible in their last fights. Rashard, Kos, Sonnen. Is this ring rust? In Sonnen's case I guess he quit taking roids but the contenders in some of these divisions have not looked great.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-06-2012, 9:35 AM Reply   
Don't know if I would want to see Diaz/Condit 2. It was a good win for Condit he had more weapons then Diaz, I would have preferred to see him be an aggressor, because I think he could have finished Diaz. i was suprised at how well he mixed up his attack but felt like it was another play it safe fight (which Condit is not known for). I guess most people are right UFC is becoming more about do what it takes to win with as little risk as possible. I think Condit won for sure but I hope he doesn't become one of those do what it takes to win fighters...like you know who
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-06-2012, 9:43 AM Reply   
Agree with both you guys.

The reality is that the scoring system sucks! That is a huge reason why this happens. Until they get it worked out, your going to see this type of thing. They need to revamp the whole thing. I know they have Chuck and some of the old timers working on changing the rules.

Kind of like when it wake-boarders were changing the rules of the skiers
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-06-2012, 10:25 AM Reply   
Condit rightfully won that fight. Chasing after someone for five rounds doesn't win you a fight and Condit was MUCH more effective with his striking and kicks. It makes me laugh that Diaz fans think he won the fight because he chased Condit around (the ever famous Octogon control!) and landed a weak takedown and had a submission attempt in the final minute. The fact is Condit has a brilliant gameplan, was much more effective and didn't let Nick Diaz and his parade of BS get into his head.

Nick Diaz wants someone to stand against the cage and throw punches for five rounds. This sport is called mixed martial arts for a reason. If you want to fight that type of fight.. move on over to boxing and get your face smashed in, even more than it already is. The putting his hands down and taunting Condit.. the crybaby antics after the fight... all the reasons I HATE Diaz. He's a classless tool. Retire from fighting?? How?? What else will he do with his ninth grade education and inability to form one coherent sentence?

I don't care if they fight again... neither will touch GSP.

On a side note.. Kos looked like sh**. I agree - the top level fighters of late have really been pretty awful looking.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-06-2012, 11:59 AM Reply   
Maybe Ellenberger will put the stamp on "The Dream" and cement his legitimacy for a shot at Condit.. Rather see Condit fight Ellenberger than to fight Kos or Fitch of Alves or even McDonald.
Old    Phatboypimp (phatboypimp)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-06-2012, 12:54 PM Reply   
On a somewhat related note....this Fuel TV deal with the UFC has really f'ed me. I have comcast - which doesn't carry Fuel TV and DirecTV/DISH wont install HD dishes on our building. I am totally getting screwed.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-06-2012, 3:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzyb View Post
Condit rightfully won that fight. Chasing after someone for five rounds doesn't win you a fight and Condit was MUCH more effective with his striking and kicks. It makes me laugh that Diaz fans think he won the fight because he chased Condit around (the ever famous Octogon control!) and landed a weak takedown and had a submission attempt in the final minute. The fact is Condit has a brilliant gameplan, was much more effective and didn't let Nick Diaz and his parade of BS get into his head.

Nick Diaz wants someone to stand against the cage and throw punches for five rounds. This sport is called mixed martial arts for a reason. If you want to fight that type of fight.. move on over to boxing and get your face smashed in, even more than it already is. The putting his hands down and taunting Condit.. the crybaby antics after the fight... all the reasons I HATE Diaz. He's a classless tool. Retire from fighting?? How?? What else will he do with his ninth grade education and inability to form one coherent sentence?

I don't care if they fight again... neither will touch GSP.

On a side note.. Kos looked like sh**. I agree - the top level fighters of late have really been pretty awful looking.
Don't understand how you can say Kos looked like crap he faught a very typical GSP fight...and got the "W".
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-06-2012, 3:04 PM Reply   
How long will this Diaz retirement last? Are we taking bets?
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-06-2012, 3:32 PM Reply   
Erik - If you thought Kos on Saturday night looked on par with GSP.. there is really nothing I can say. You've said it all yourself.

Diaz won't retire. He's butt hurt and he'll be back in no time. As I said before.. what else is he going to do?
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-06-2012, 4:34 PM Reply   
Yhea Kos looked Slow (Except one double which was lightening fast) and a little weak. I say Fitch would take him out right now (even with Fitch's loss), maybe that's the next fight - two grinders. I agree Ellenberger is the next guy. Although I NEVER count out Diego - He is a monster. He has been so close for so long (like Guida). Got to tell you right now Diego is a +242, Would be worthy of a bet regardless. He is dangerous no matter what.
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       02-06-2012, 7:48 PM Reply   
So Condit beat Diaz huh? Man I wish I would have purchaed that. It just goes to show you guys that are stars in other organizations come to the UFX and arent the stars everyone thought. I am suprised that Condit out boxed Dias though. The Diaz brothers have that weird slow well executed bosing game that seems to work for them. Condit IMO was always a one punch knock out guy. I have to say Greg Jackson is the man when it comes to helping his fighters with their game plans.

I went to pay my charter bill today it was nearly 300 bucks. I had to UFC pay per views and a bynch of regular movie purchaes my kids did. Did you know there movies are frigging $4.99 each? The charter bundle ripping me off again!!!!!!!!
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-07-2012, 8:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
Yhea Kos looked Slow (Except one double which was lightening fast) and a little weak. I say Fitch would take him out right now (even with Fitch's loss), maybe that's the next fight - two grinders. I agree Ellenberger is the next guy. Although I NEVER count out Diego - He is a monster. He has been so close for so long (like Guida). Got to tell you right now Diego is a +242, Would be worthy of a bet regardless. He is dangerous no matter what.
Did you read abouot the Kos drama and the camp he had? Explains his lackluster performance . Plus, the guy has like 20 UFC fights and he's a top 3 welterweight and they have him fighting Pierce. He's the kind of guy that needs more motivation than that and he was planning on going to 85' anyways.

I hate The Dream more than anything. I'll be cheering Ellenberger wildly.


Roger Gracie to Blackhouse and 185... Is there enough time to get his stand up to par with the top dogs? No ground game in the world measures up and he's one of the VERY few high level, ultra elite grapplers with SICK wrestling and top game.. His BJJ for MMA should transition flawless.

Can Blackhouse get his hands right? If so - he will be NASTY.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-08-2012, 10:55 AM Reply   
Rashad Evans and JBJ scheduled for UFC 145 in April. I can't WAIT for this fight! I really can't see any possible way that Rashad Evans can win this fight. How can you knock someone out when you can't even reach their chin?

Condit also just accepted an immediate rematch with Diaz. BOOOOO! Just yesterday his manager was saying possibly down the line, after his fight with GSP... now today, it's a done deal with Diaz. The UFC must have offered him a ridiculous amount of money. Condit has nothing to gain and everything to lose... I don't know why he'd possible take that fight. Must have been some big $$$$$$.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-08-2012, 11:24 AM Reply   
BAD BAD BAD Decision for Condit. If he wins, good for him and he gets paid and shuts every one up. If he loses, will be a third fight to decide the "real" interim champ. If he wins the same way as first fight, he will get nothing but **** on. If he loses by anything short of a KO, the first fight will be called a fluke. This is all freak'n bad. Great for Diaz though - Win win. If he loses nothing changes - he is still #3 guy.

JBJ Will destroy Evans in one round. JBJ is dangerous enough without having a personal mission and one year to train against you. Not to mention Greg Jackson knows everything there is to know about Evans and his weaknesses. There is not a place in the ring that Rashad is better than JBJ. You could argue Rashad has a punchers chance, but tell that to Rampage who just looked dazed and confused why he could not get in on JBJ's 84.5" reach.

Funny I was playing Undisputed 3 last night as JBJ verse Silva. Just having that range I can stay on the outside and dance around. Not saying that would happen in reality, but crazy how much difference that reach really is.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-08-2012, 12:16 PM Reply   
JBJ and Silva is a fight I'd really like to see. JBJ has something like a nine inch reach advantage of Evans. I actually used to like Evans quite a bit.. but the sh** he's talked about JBJ just makes me laugh. What is "fake" about him? His ability to kick everyone's ass in the division?

I can't f'ing believe the UFC is giving Diaz ANOTHER chance. UGH!! He lost.. fair and square. Because he cries like a baby about an unfair decision (WRONG) and his idiot fanboys blast Twitter with the same nonsense.. we have another fight. Lame. I know it's all about money, because the UFC desperately wants Diaz to fight GSP.. but damn.. Condit is getting the shaft.

I would much rather see Diaz and GSP fight.. but fair is fair.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-09-2012, 7:35 AM Reply   
The only reason they are giving Diaz a chance is because GSP wants him so bad. GSP said yesterday he would forgo his title, let Condit have the title just so he can fight Diaz (assuming Condit wins again or the rematch doesn't happen)..

Now Nicks camp is saying they aren't taking the fight, even though they called for it.

As The World Turns
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-09-2012, 8:33 AM Reply   
So now Diaz "can't" fight and the fight is off? What the heck is going on over there? I can't come up with any solution in my head that Diaz does not take this fight unless he thinks he can't win or this is a another ploy for money.

This feel alot like UFC does not want conduit to have the belt so they will force something (like when they forced Couture to come back and get the belt from Tim Sylvia).

This smells bad. At least next week we get free fights AND undisputed 3!
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-09-2012, 9:33 AM Reply   
Condit isn't very marketable. He doesn't talk ****, he's not very personable, etc. He's no GSP and he's not JJ.. He's kind of like Edgar - he's a worker who doesn't talk.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-09-2012, 9:36 AM Reply   
The UFC f'ed up when they gave the power to Diaz. They bowed down to him and his BS crybaby antics and now he's in the driver's seat. Idiots. Tell Diaz to go fly a kite and move on already. I guarantee he will come crawling back.. he has no other option.
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-09-2012, 10:32 AM Reply   
I have heard a rumor that the NSAC had some announcement to make and speculation is Diaz tested positive for something, most likely marijuana.

Again, this is all hearsay so don't lambaste me if I'm wrong.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-09-2012, 11:14 AM Reply   
Yeah, I just read that..

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news...s-there-smoke/

If it's true.. what an IDIOT! I don't care if he smokes weed.. he probably needs it to keep from being a total psychopath.. but to be that careless in what is probably the biggest fight of your career? Moron.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-09-2012, 11:15 AM Reply   
Yup, lots of rumors floating that he pissed hot. Wouldnt be the first, probably not the last.

Would explain why Cesar said "we wont take the Condit fight and that's all I'm saying".. Getting ready to have the bomb dropped on them again.

At least this fight won't have to be over turned based on the results like the Gomi fight was.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-09-2012, 11:30 AM Reply   
Keith Kizer of NSAC just announced that there was in fact 1 positive test from 143 - and he will announce who it was and what it was later today.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-09-2012, 3:27 PM Reply   
Dumb ass!
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-09-2012, 3:38 PM Reply   
Well there goes that... Wonder if he has to return the purse?
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-09-2012, 4:03 PM Reply   
The last time he tested positive for weed in 2007, he had to pay a small fine and was banned by the NSAC for 6 months. I doubt he'll have to return the money he earned.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-09-2012, 4:07 PM Reply   
Confirmed:

http://www.mmaweekly.com/nick-diaz-t...lowing-ufc-143

What an idiot. No wonder he's been unusually quiet on Twitter. Where is Chael Sonnen when you need him!?
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-09-2012, 7:57 PM Reply   
Based on recent banned substances - a fine and at least a small ban. After the second/third offense, though it gets very steep.

That's why Cesar said nothing because he knew. Imagine if that was for GSP and somehow he beats GSP
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-13-2012, 9:09 AM Reply   
Now that Diaz is out of the picture and GSP is done throwing a fit about not being able to fight him, we are on to this Wednesday. It's a freebie so Yhea to that. Lot's of young talent here, but only the headliner really has any implications to the top tier's. It is rumored that if Ellenbeger were to win convincing and not injured, he might fight Condit in the summer. Not sure why the same would not be true for Diego, but not rumors about him yet. I will shoot up my thoughts a little later but figured I would start talks early Monday to start the work week.
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-13-2012, 9:42 AM Reply   
Yay Ellenberger... BOOO Sanchez!

That's about all I can muster for 8:42 on a Monday morning.
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       02-14-2012, 6:25 PM Reply   
Dirty Sanchez is like a larger Clay Guida, the dude never stops coming. I have to give him kudos for his tenacity but man the guy needs to lighten up a little. I mean every time Diego fights and starts his walk out I can't help but laugh at the faces he makes. He does have skills as a fighter though, Diego like Guida is one of those fighters who although really good, will never be good enough.
I guess we can say that about a lot of fighters.

Anyway free tomorrow night you say? What time and what channel? Spike?
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-15-2012, 8:55 AM Reply   
Fuel TV
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-15-2012, 11:29 AM Reply   
Just had to add the Surewest Sports package to get fuel... Only $6 but still.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       02-16-2012, 7:38 AM Reply   
Jake Elleneberger looked fantastic.. He dominated 2.5 rounds, his footwork and headwork was absolute insane and he sat down on all of his punches and made it work.

**** you Diego for making excuses after the fight. POS.

I liked the Supersized CroCop too!
Old    Elizabeth LaMarca (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-16-2012, 10:48 AM Reply   
I didn't see the fights.. but I did see Nick Diaz post on Twitter that Diego got robbed in the decision. True? Doesn't sound like it based on the above post.

I'm glad Ellenberger won - I'd like to see him next in line for Condit.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-16-2012, 12:51 PM Reply   
Hell no - he did not get robbed, Diaz either. Jake looked great, kind of like condit. Stick and move and don't get in a war with a slugger. Diego snapped out of it and killed Jake in the third. Diego was very frustrated the first two rounds.

The rest of the fights were ok.
Old    Mik (norcalrider)      Join Date: Jun 2002       02-16-2012, 1:21 PM Reply   
My buddies and I had Ellenberger 2-1. Just because Diego probably won that last round doesn't mean he won the fight.

One of the guys sent us all an email this AM:

"In an interview with Ariel Helwani, post fight, Dana said that the UFC “blew it” in response to why the Ellenberger vs Sanchez fight was not 5 rounds. Prior to fight time ALL FX and Fuel main events were going to stay with the traditional 3 round, non-title format, FOX and PPV Main Event would be the exception. However, after watching the fight Dana said ALL Main Events that are not already under signed contract will be 5 rounders from here on out.

Awesome! I think Ellenberger clearly won that fight in a 3 round format, but Diego seemed to have the edge and gas tank would it have gone an additional 2."

http://www.mmatko.com/dana-white-tel...-not-5-rounds/
Old    Flight007 (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       02-16-2012, 2:29 PM Reply   
Ellenberger was up first 2 rounds and half of the 2nd, he slipped down and made a mistake and let Diego get on top of him. If it wasn't for the last minute he would have won a unanamous decision. From what I saw, there is still nobody to challenge GSP. GSP needs to move to 185 plain and sinmple! If I were Dana I would have Silva and GSP fight at a catch weight of 180 If Silva wins then he needs to fight Bones Jones at 205. BAM!! Silva will beat GSP and if he fought Jones standing he would beat Jones but if it goes to the ground I have Bones by ground and pound!

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